Re: Lyme treatment & Herxheimer eff...

[Guest guest]

I found this description online about the difference between glutamine and glutamate.

Glutamine differs from glutamate in that it has been formed from glutamate and ammonia, and thus has an extra nitrogen it can easily donate whenever nitrogen might be needed. The enzyme that catalyzes the addition of ammonia to glutamate is called glutamine synthase. An abundant supply of glutamine synthase is essential for our health, since the biosynthesis of glutamine is the process through which the body eliminates excess ammonia

It doesn't hurt to pull it out of the protocol and see if things improve, if they do then that's your culprit.

Tami DuncanPresident and Co-Founderwww.liafoundation.orgRead about the Lyme-Autism Connection in the new book by Rosner. Purchase online at: www.liafoundation.org

I may be wrong but I think that the amino acid L-glutamine is not thesame as glutamate. L-glutamine is known to aid the gastrointestinalsystem while glutamate is the flavoring used for food that is toxic tothe body.Sheri - I have 2 kids who used Glutagenics. It helped the gut to healin one of my children (loose BM stopped within days) but not theother. I eventually figured out that the child who did not respondcould not tolerate licorice.Bernie > >> > We started treating our 22 month old daughter for Lyme on August > 28th > > (almost 4 weeks ago) using prescription Ceftin (a cephalosporin > > antibiotic). She is also taking plenty of probiotics and S. > > boulardii to help keep any yeast flares caused by the antibiotics > > under control. We immediately saw a horrendous herxheimer effect, > > which lasted for about 1 week. Very irritable, bad nights, and a > > strange diarrhea that had absolutely no smell (I could literally > hold > > the dirty diaper up to my nose and smell nothing!) that burned her > > bum terribly. Thankfully that passed and things were actually > going > > pretty well. But now the last 5 days or so have been just plain > > awful! Cranky and irritable all day, screaming, yelling, crying, > > tantrums, belly pressure, gas, and awful, awful nights (we barely > > slept last night).> > > > I'm wondering, could the initial herxheimer effect that we saw have > > been as a result of the killing of her bad gut bacteria, and now > > we're finally getting to the Lyme as it cycles? She had 4+ levels > of > > pathogenic enterobacter cloacae, klebsiella pneumoniae, pseudomonas > > aeruginosa, and proteus mirabilis on a recent comprehensive stool > > analysis. In other words, major dysbiosis. When does the dieoff > of > > Lyme typically occur after starting treatment? Immediately or as > the > > borrelia cycles?> > > > It's possible that she may be reacting to the recent addition of > > Glutagenics (l-glutamine, licorice, aloe vera) to her supplements, > > but she's never reacted to any supplement like this before. > > Especially one that is supposed to help HEAL her gut...> > > > Thanks for any input,> > Sheri> >> > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news andinformation, tips and > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.

[Guest guest]

I may be wrong but I think that the amino acid L-glutamine is not the

same as glutamate. L-glutamine is known to aid the gastrointestinal

system while glutamate is the flavoring used for food that is toxic to

the body.

Sheri - I have 2 kids who used Glutagenics. It helped the gut to heal

in one of my children (loose BM stopped within days) but not the

other. I eventually figured out that the child who did not respond

could not tolerate licorice.

Bernie

> >

> > We started treating our 22 month old daughter for Lyme on August

> 28th

> > (almost 4 weeks ago) using prescription Ceftin (a cephalosporin

> > antibiotic). She is also taking plenty of probiotics and S.

> > boulardii to help keep any yeast flares caused by the antibiotics

> > under control. We immediately saw a horrendous herxheimer effect,

> > which lasted for about 1 week. Very irritable, bad nights, and a

> > strange diarrhea that had absolutely no smell (I could literally

> hold

> > the dirty diaper up to my nose and smell nothing!) that burned her

> > bum terribly. Thankfully that passed and things were actually

> going

> > pretty well. But now the last 5 days or so have been just plain

> > awful! Cranky and irritable all day, screaming, yelling, crying,

> > tantrums, belly pressure, gas, and awful, awful nights (we barely

> > slept last night).

> >

> > I'm wondering, could the initial herxheimer effect that we saw have

> > been as a result of the killing of her bad gut bacteria, and now

> > we're finally getting to the Lyme as it cycles? She had 4+ levels

> of

> > pathogenic enterobacter cloacae, klebsiella pneumoniae, pseudomonas

> > aeruginosa, and proteus mirabilis on a recent comprehensive stool

> > analysis. In other words, major dysbiosis. When does the dieoff

> of

> > Lyme typically occur after starting treatment? Immediately or as

> the

> > borrelia cycles?

> >

> > It's possible that she may be reacting to the recent addition of

> > Glutagenics (l-glutamine, licorice, aloe vera) to her supplements,

> > but she's never reacted to any supplement like this before.

> > Especially one that is supposed to help HEAL her gut...

> >

> > Thanks for any input,

> > Sheri

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial

> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and

information, tips and

> calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tami,

Thanks for the response. It never really dawned on me about the l-

glutamine - glutamate connection... I did pull the supplement

yesterday to see if that would make a difference, and last night was

definately a better night. Although I did increase her S. boulardii

as well, in case it was a yeast flare from the antibiotics. Yes, her

DAN gave us the supplement. It's supposed to help the gut repair

itself and help with her reflux. The very first day we started it (I

gave it to her around supper time) was her first terrible night. I

thought that it was likely too soon to be attributed to that, but now

that her first night off of it was better, it's making me wonder.

One other question, is there a " typical " time in which you see the

herxheimer effect after starting Lyme treatment? Is is often

immediate, or delayed?

Thank you!

Sheri

> >

> > We started treating our 22 month old daughter for Lyme on August

> 28th

> > (almost 4 weeks ago) using prescription Ceftin (a cephalosporin

> > antibiotic). She is also taking plenty of probiotics and S.

> > boulardii to help keep any yeast flares caused by the

antibiotics

> > under control. We immediately saw a horrendous herxheimer

effect,

> > which lasted for about 1 week. Very irritable, bad nights, and a

> > strange diarrhea that had absolutely no smell (I could literally

> hold

> > the dirty diaper up to my nose and smell nothing!) that burned

her

> > bum terribly. Thankfully that passed and things were actually

> going

> > pretty well. But now the last 5 days or so have been just plain

> > awful! Cranky and irritable all day, screaming, yelling, crying,

> > tantrums, belly pressure, gas, and awful, awful nights (we

barely

> > slept last night).

> >

> > I'm wondering, could the initial herxheimer effect that we saw

have

> > been as a result of the killing of her bad gut bacteria, and now

> > we're finally getting to the Lyme as it cycles? She had 4+

levels

> of

> > pathogenic enterobacter cloacae, klebsiella pneumoniae,

pseudomonas

> > aeruginosa, and proteus mirabilis on a recent comprehensive

stool

> > analysis. In other words, major dysbiosis. When does the dieoff

> of

> > Lyme typically occur after starting treatment? Immediately or as

> the

> > borrelia cycles?

> >

> > It's possible that she may be reacting to the recent addition of

> > Glutagenics (l-glutamine, licorice, aloe vera) to her

supplements,

> > but she's never reacted to any supplement like this before.

> > Especially one that is supposed to help HEAL her gut...

> >

> > Thanks for any input,

> > Sheri

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheri,

I don't know what a " typical " time is to expect herxing reactions. In our

case, my son has never herxed on Cumanda and Banderol. We built up dosage

very gradually and overtime my son's OCD, anxiety, and panic attacks had

been gradually reduced to entirely went away. I guess that the herxing

reactions vary individually, and some might never experience them. During

the first month of using the herbs, I thought that the herbs did not work

for us and posted my doubts, because my son did not have any herxheimer

effect. But now I knew better, the herbs did work and herxing reaction is

not a must. I think that heavily supporting detox organs/systems helped.

As for glutamate, Nutramedix Pinella is said to detoxify both man-made and

biotoxins from the brain and the central nervous system, including

glutamate, MSG, etc. I use it together with Burbur, which supports the

liver, kindeys, lymphatic system, and ground matrix.

Limin

--------------------------------------------------

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 13:35

To: <BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism >

Subject: Re: Lyme treatment &

Herxheimer eff...

> Hi Tami,

>

> Thanks for the response. It never really dawned on me about the l-

> glutamine - glutamate connection... I did pull the supplement

> yesterday to see if that would make a difference, and last night was

> definately a better night. Although I did increase her S. boulardii

> as well, in case it was a yeast flare from the antibiotics. Yes, her

> DAN gave us the supplement. It's supposed to help the gut repair

> itself and help with her reflux. The very first day we started it (I

> gave it to her around supper time) was her first terrible night. I

> thought that it was likely too soon to be attributed to that, but now

> that her first night off of it was better, it's making me wonder.

>

> One other question, is there a " typical " time in which you see the

> herxheimer effect after starting Lyme treatment? Is is often

> immediate, or delayed?

>

> Thank you!

> Sheri

>

>

>> >

>> > We started treating our 22 month old daughter for Lyme on August

>> 28th

>> > (almost 4 weeks ago) using prescription Ceftin (a cephalosporin

>> > antibiotic). She is also taking plenty of probiotics and S.

>> > boulardii to help keep any yeast flares caused by the

> antibiotics

>> > under control. We immediately saw a horrendous herxheimer

> effect,

>> > which lasted for about 1 week. Very irritable, bad nights, and a

>> > strange diarrhea that had absolutely no smell (I could literally

>> hold

>> > the dirty diaper up to my nose and smell nothing!) that burned

> her

>> > bum terribly. Thankfully that passed and things were actually

>> going

>> > pretty well. But now the last 5 days or so have been just plain

>> > awful! Cranky and irritable all day, screaming, yelling, crying,

>> > tantrums, belly pressure, gas, and awful, awful nights (we

> barely

>> > slept last night).

>> >

>> > I'm wondering, could the initial herxheimer effect that we saw

> have

>> > been as a result of the killing of her bad gut bacteria, and now

>> > we're finally getting to the Lyme as it cycles? She had 4+

> levels

>> of

>> > pathogenic enterobacter cloacae, klebsiella pneumoniae,

> pseudomonas

>> > aeruginosa, and proteus mirabilis on a recent comprehensive

> stool

>> > analysis. In other words, major dysbiosis. When does the dieoff

>> of

>> > Lyme typically occur after starting treatment? Immediately or as

>> the

>> > borrelia cycles?

>> >

>> > It's possible that she may be reacting to the recent addition of

>> > Glutagenics (l-glutamine, licorice, aloe vera) to her

> supplements,

>> > but she's never reacted to any supplement like this before.

>> > Especially one that is supposed to help HEAL her gut...

>> >

>> > Thanks for any input,

>> > Sheri

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think a herx can happen anywhere from 3 days to a week or two after starting treatment. There are also "symptom flares" which look exactly like herxes. Lyme patients are continually baffled as to which is which.

Tami DuncanPresident and Co-Founderwww.liafoundation.orgRead about the Lyme-Autism Connection in the new book by Rosner. Purchase online at: www.liafoundation.org

Thank you all for the replies. I'm still very new to Lyme treatment and I wasn't sure if this was something to be expected or not. My DD barely eats any foods as she's >95% Neocate fed. If she does have any "real" food, it's very tiny amounts with digestive enzymes. So that seems to narrow it down to either die-off/herxheimer, yeast flare from antibiotics, or reaction the the Glutagenics. So I've pulled the Glutagenics for now and upped the S. boulardii (as we saw dramatic improvement in her nights after adding this) and will continue with the antibiotics for their entire course.Thank you!Sheri> >> > We started treating our 22 month old daughter for Lyme on August > 28th > > (almost 4 weeks ago) using prescription Ceftin (a cephalosporin > > antibiotic). She is also taking plenty of probiotics and S. > > boulardii to help keep any yeast flares caused by the antibiotics > > under control. We immediately saw a horrendous herxheimer effect, > > which lasted for about 1 week. Very irritable, bad nights, and a > > strange diarrhea that had absolutely no smell (I could literally > hold > > the dirty diaper up to my nose and smell nothing!) that burned her > > bum terribly. Thankfully that passed and things were actually > going > > pretty well. But now the last 5 days or so have been just plain > > awful! Cranky and irritable all day, screaming, yelling, crying, > > tantrums, belly pressure, gas, and awful, awful nights (we barely > > slept last night).> > > > I'm wondering, could the initial herxheimer effect that we saw have > > been as a result of the killing of her bad gut bacteria, and now > > we're finally getting to the Lyme as it cycles? She had 4+ levels > of > > pathogenic enterobacter cloacae, klebsiella pneumoniae, pseudomonas > > aeruginosa, and proteus mirabilis on a recent comprehensive stool > > analysis. In other words, major dysbiosis. When does the dieoff > of > > Lyme typically occur after starting treatment? Immediately or as > the > > borrelia cycles?> > > > It's possible that she may be reacting to the recent addition of > > Glutagenics (l-glutamine, licorice, aloe vera) to her supplements, > > but she's never reacted to any supplement like this before. > > Especially one that is supposed to help HEAL her gut...> > > > Thanks for any input,> > Sheri> >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.

[Guest guest]

Yasko recommends avoiding excess glutamine as it is often converted

to glutamate which is an excitatory neurotransmitter.

> > >

> > > We started treating our 22 month old daughter for Lyme on

August

> > 28th

> > > (almost 4 weeks ago) using prescription Ceftin (a

cephalosporin

> > > antibiotic). She is also taking plenty of probiotics and S.

> > > boulardii to help keep any yeast flares caused by the

antibiotics

> > > under control. We immediately saw a horrendous herxheimer

effect,

> > > which lasted for about 1 week. Very irritable, bad nights, and

a

> > > strange diarrhea that had absolutely no smell (I could

literally

> > hold

> > > the dirty diaper up to my nose and smell nothing!) that burned

her

> > > bum terribly. Thankfully that passed and things were actually

> > going

> > > pretty well. But now the last 5 days or so have been just

plain

> > > awful! Cranky and irritable all day, screaming, yelling,

crying,

> > > tantrums, belly pressure, gas, and awful, awful nights (we

barely

> > > slept last night).

> > >

> > > I'm wondering, could the initial herxheimer effect that we saw

have

> > > been as a result of the killing of her bad gut bacteria, and

now

> > > we're finally getting to the Lyme as it cycles? She had 4+

levels

> > of

> > > pathogenic enterobacter cloacae, klebsiella pneumoniae,

pseudomonas

> > > aeruginosa, and proteus mirabilis on a recent comprehensive

stool

> > > analysis. In other words, major dysbiosis. When does the

dieoff

> > of

> > > Lyme typically occur after starting treatment? Immediately or

as

> > the

> > > borrelia cycles?

> > >

> > > It's possible that she may be reacting to the recent addition

of

> > > Glutagenics (l-glutamine, licorice, aloe vera) to her

supplements,

> > > but she's never reacted to any supplement like this before.

> > > Especially one that is supposed to help HEAL her gut...

> > >

> > > Thanks for any input,

> > > Sheri

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life

financial

> > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and

> information, tips and

> > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?

NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

> >

>