Re: mixing oils cod v. flax

[Guest guest]

I don't think people should generally supplement more than one

teaspoon of cod liver oil daily, which is only 400 or 500 IU of

Vitamin D.

The point is that our conversion rate from LNA (found in flax) to EPA

and DHA (found in fish oils) is very poor. I have a reference at home

that I'll post after work. Its only 4% and 6%, and as you point out,

it can be even worse depending on the ancestry.

In order to get the same amount of EPA and DHA, you need to take

about 20 times the flax oil as you do fish oil. So you can take

enough flax to get 2% of your daily calories from omega-3's - but it

won't all go to EPA and DHA.

> I am a little concernced about the following statement:

> " If you're taking cod liver oil, you can ditch the flax oil. " --

see

> message below.

>

> I think we should be careful when making such recommendations,

unless one

> knows the exact composition of the cod liver oil in question.

Relying only

> on cod liver oil for Omega 3s (EPA and DHA) might result in

consuming too

> much vitamin D.

>

> FDA toxicity is 2000 IU daily. From K. Sullivan's article on the

WAP site -

> she suggests testing the blood if one is supplementing with more

than 1000

> IU daily.

>

> Assume a 2000cal diet, of that 40% is consumed as fat,

> 2% of the total fat should come from Omega 3s = 1778mg.

>

> Or, assume a 2500cal diet, of that 40% is consumed as fat,

> 2% of the total fat should come from Omega 3s = 2222mg.

>

> 1 Teaspoon of Carlson's Cod Liver Oil (Regular Formula in the

bottle)

> provides:

> A 5000 IU

> D 500 IU

> O3s 1050mg

> Taking 1.5 to 2 teaspoons to get 1575mg or 2100mg O3s would not be a

> concern.

>

> However, the Cod Liver Oil that I take (in gelcap form) daily dose

provides:

> A 5000 IU

> D 500 IU

> O3s 500mg

> Taking 3 daily doses to get 1500mg O3s would not be a concern.

> Taking 4 or 4.5 daily doses to get 2000mg or 2250mg O3s would

result in

> 2000IU or 2250IU vitamin D daily, a possible concern.

>

> Please correct me if I am wrong on this or am missing something. I

know the

> question about getting Omega 3s from Cod Liver Oil v. Flax Oil came-

up

> previously.

>

> Additionally, I think we should be careful when considering

conversion

> rates since it is known that people whose ancestory is associated

with a

> diet heavy on sea foods do not make the conversion well. I doubt

> researchers controlled for this variable. Additionally, the

conversion is

> reduced under poor dietary conditions - again, something which I am

guessing

> was not controlled for in the studies.

>

> Deanna

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " justinbond " <justin_bond@h...>

> < @y...>

> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:39 AM

> Subject: Re: mixing oils

>

>

> If you're taking cod liver oil, you can ditch the flax oil. There's

> no reason to take two omega-3 supplements, particularly considering

> how poor the conversion rate of LNA to EPA/DHA is.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ok, here are the references on the conversion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=9637947 & dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11483627 & dopt=Abstract

One teaspoon of cod liver oil will give about 1g of EPA + DHA. The

first study suggests that 1.25 grams is a healthy dose, corresponding

to about 2-3 servings of fatty fish per week. Even if there is an

optimal dosage higher than 1.25g of EPA + DHA, butter, lard, meat and

milk will provide additional omega-3's.

[Guest guest]

> On another note, do we know that the precursor form of Omega 3

provided by

> flax oil isn't useful in it's own right? I know the conversion to

EPA and

> DHA is poor, and they may be the most critical forms of omega 3 for

human

> health. I wonder, though, if there is a human biological need for

(or at

> least a benefit from) Alpha-linoleic-acid or perhaps other less

commonly

> discussed omega 3 forms. Are there perhaps prostaglandins that are

readily

> formed from the Alpha-linoleic form that aren't readily made

directly from

> EPA and/or DHA (perhaps requiring a reverse conversion to the

Alpha-linoleic

> form)?

From post #3846 on coconut-info group, by Enig, PhD.:

--snip--

Regarding the essential fatty acids (often referred to as EFAs): (i)

The first

of the omega-3 fatty acids is called alpha-linolenic

acid (LNA) and it is

essential because it can only be obtained from the

diet. It cannot be made in

any animal body. (ii) The first of the omega-6 fatty

acids is called linoleic

acid (LA) and it is essential because it can only be

obtained from the diet. It

too cannot be made in any animal body. Only the

elongated omega-3s (EPA, DPA

and DHA)and omega-6s (GLA and AA) can be formed in the

body and that makes them

either non-essential or conditionally essential, but

they do not have the same

level of " essentiality " as their precursors LA and LNA

(both of which have some

additional functions separate from their roles as

specific precursors to GLA,

AA, EPA, DPA, and DHA).

--snip--

I am a nutritionist/nutritional biochemist. I have an

MS and a PhD from the

University of land's Graduate Program in

Nutritional Sciences. I did my

graduate degree studies in the Department of Chemistry

and Biochemistry.

I am a researcher with real " bench " experience in food

fats and oils chemistry

and in lipid biochemistry. By bench chemistry and

biochemistry I mean that I

have actually analyzed in many different ways fats and

oils from foods and

lipids from tissues of both animals and humans. In

addition to doing this

extensive bench research in a university setting for

nearly 20 years and

attending technical meetings for nearly 30 years, I

have made sure that I am

well-read in the entire fats, oils and lipids research

area, and in addition to

the pertinent historical information that most people

hear about, many of my

files and papers on fats and oils go back to the early

1930s. Thus I presented

the above information as an expert in lipids and all

aspects of nutrition

connected with lipids.

I wrote the book Know Your Fats because I was quite

concerned about all of the

misinformation concerning the subject of fats, oils,

and lipids that was

showing up in the different literatures; eg, in books,

newsletters, magazines,

newspapers. I wrote the book as a " primer " because I

hoped to give people an

opportunity to see and understand the basics. I

included some small pieces of

technical information but did not expand on many areas

that are best covered in

a text book and that must of necessity be at a

scientific research level. I

also included a certain amount of the politics, but

did not dwell on the whole

issue as that would have required an entire book in

itself. I answered many

questions that had been asked of me over many years.

Enig

[Guest guest]

> From: sraosha87 [mailto:sraosha@n...]

> quoting from post #3846 on coconut-info group, by Enig, PhD.:

> > " Regarding the essential fatty acids

> ...

> > they [EPA, DPA, DHA, GLA, AA] do not have the same

> > level of " essentiality " as their precursors LA and LNA

> > (both of which have some additional functions separate

> > from their roles as specific precursors to GLA, AA, EPA,

> > DPA, and DHA) " .

>

> Beautiful! I hadn't dared to hope for such a specific and

informative

> response. Thank you very much!

>

> I think I'll continue to look for opportunities for adding small

amounts of

> flax to my diet.

That is interesting. Now I'd like to know more (anything) about these

functions, and what foods have the precursors besides flax.