Re: Raw milk yoghurt fails?

February 20, 2002

In a message dated 2/20/02 5:18:49 PM Central Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> I'm wondering if anyone can help me out on this.

>

> I just made my first batch of yoghurt from completely unheated, raw dairy,

> and it didn't thicken at all. I use a Yogourmet and the Yogourmet starter,

>

> and I mix milk with cream. The starter actually softened and mixed into

> the milk almost immediately, which was interesting, since it takes quite

> awhile with pasteurized milk. Anyway, I just took the milk out of the

> fridge, poured some into the container and softened the starter, then mixed

>

> in more milk and some cream and let it incubate for 24 hours.

Can't just take the milk out of the fridge you've got to heat it to about

115, some say 110 is enough and it needs to be kept at about 100.

>

> This is Jersey cow milk and cream, whereas in the past I've always gotten

> Holstein dairy. Could the extra fat affect the required incubation

> time? Do I need to use more starter? I REALLY don't want to heat this

> stuff and destroy all the virtues of raw dairy!

>

While you do not want to heat it you will if you have cooled it. If you were

able to go from the cow without cooling it you'd be set. Gonna have to heat

it some.

Belinda

> Thanks,

>

> -

>

February 20, 2002

In a message dated 2/20/02 6:02:31 PM Central Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Belinda-

>

> >Can't just take the milk out of the fridge you've got to heat it to about

> >115, some say 110 is enough and it needs to be kept at about 100.

>

> Do you mean I have to warm it up before adding the starter? The Yogourmet

> keeps it incubating at 110-115 degrees.

>

Yogourmet is a machine? I've never done it in one but it is my understanding

that the milk must be warm before ading the culture.

B

February 20, 2002

In a message dated 2/20/02 6:39:04 PM Central Standard Time, bianca3@...

writes:

> Aw shucks,

>

> What is wrong with Kefir? It doesn't require any heating at all :-)

>

Don't know, haven't met Kefir yet. <G>

Belinda

February 20, 2002

In a message dated 2/20/02 7:33:24 PM Central Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Yep, the Yogourmet is a machine. It immerses the container of incubating

> yoghurt in a bath of water maintained at the correct temperature. *Very*

> useful gadget!

>

heh...I can do the same thing in my picnic type cooler for less money, I'm

sure and I'm cheap!

Belinda

February 20, 2002

In a message dated 2/20/02 8:27:25 PM Central Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Hmm, how do you keep the temperature constant? My oven doesn't use a

> pilot, and I don't have any reliably warm place in my apartment.

>

I boil some water and put about an inch in the cooler then place the yogurt

in the cooler. I make yogurt in gallon jars, sometimes 2 gallons worth at a

time. The yogurt is at about 115 the cooler is pretty warm. In very cold

weather (we heat with wood, mornings are chilly here) I put a pile of coats

or something on top of the cooler. A friend puts her's by the water heater

another actually has radiators and places her cooler near one of them.

I have made cheese straight from the goat or cow but never tried yogurt as my

starter is usually in the fridge and would make the milk too cool. If I ever

get my act together to take it out the night before or something then I'll

try it at animal temperature <G> and let you all know how it turns out.

Belinda

February 20, 2002

Belinda-

>Can't just take the milk out of the fridge you've got to heat it to about

>115, some say 110 is enough and it needs to be kept at about 100.

Do you mean I have to warm it up before adding the starter? The Yogourmet

keeps it incubating at 110-115 degrees.

-

February 21, 2002

Aw shucks,

What is wrong with Kefir? It doesn't require any heating at all :-)

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:05:46 EST bilherbs@... writes:

In a message dated 2/20/02 6:02:31 PM Central Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Belinda-

>

> >Can't just take the milk out of the fridge you've got to heat it to

about

> >115, some say 110 is enough and it needs to be kept at about 100.

>

> Do you mean I have to warm it up before adding the starter? The

Yogourmet

> keeps it incubating at 110-115 degrees.

>

Yogourmet is a machine? I've never done it in one but it is my

understanding

that the milk must be warm before ading the culture.

B

February 21, 2002

,

>>Do you mean I have to warm it up before adding the starter? The Yogourmet

keeps it incubating at 110-115 degrees.<<

It has to be warmed first in order to get rid of certain microorganisms that

would otherwise compete with the starter. Then starter should only be introduced

after the milk is at 110 or below (the green area on the Yogourmet thermometer,

or even down to room temp).

If the starter is introduced cold, it might fail. I've also made batches with

the Yogourmet that came out of the machine lumpy and runny and I thought I'd

ruined it, but letting it chill in the fridge for at least a few hours would

then firm it up nicely. Maybe you know that trick already, but I thought I'd

mention it again, because it drove me crazy the first time I made yogurt, trying

to figure out what I'd done wrong.

-

February 21, 2002

>What is wrong with Kefir? It doesn't require any heating at all :-)

Actually, I make kefir every day too, and I like it, but I really love my

yoghurt and I don't want to give it up.

-

February 21, 2002

-

>It has to be warmed first in order to get rid of certain microorganisms

>that would otherwise compete with the starter. Then starter should only be

>introduced after the milk is at 110 or below (the green area on the

>Yogourmet thermometer, or even down to room temp).

Hmm, there are two separate heating issues, I think.

I know milk is generally heated to 180 degrees (some people even boil it!)

before inoculating with yoghurt or starter to kill competing organisms, but

this heating damages the milk. Also, I've heard that clean raw milk

doesn't need to be sterilized because the good bugs and enzymes in the milk

keep putrefactive bacteria from growing.

Other than that, there's the question of whether the milk should be warmed

-- perhaps even to the incubation temperature of 110-115 degrees -- before

adding the starter.

>but letting it chill in the fridge for at least a few hours would then

>firm it up nicely. Maybe you know that trick already, but I thought I'd

>mention it again, because it drove me crazy the first time I made yogurt,

>trying to figure out what I'd done wrong.

Actually, I've found that disturbing the yoghurt at all before it's chilled

tends to mess up the texture, so I just take it out of the Yogourmet and

leave it in the fridge overnight before having any.

I am hoping that this sets my raw-milk yoghurt, but it didn't seem any

thicker than milk when I took it out of the Yogourmet.

-

February 21, 2002

Belinda-

>Yogourmet is a machine? I've never done it in one but it is my understanding

>that the milk must be warm before ading the culture.

Yep, the Yogourmet is a machine. It immerses the container of incubating

yoghurt in a bath of water maintained at the correct temperature. *Very*

useful gadget!

-

February 21, 2002

When do you decide the yoghurt failed? The yoghurt maker probably

indicates the yoghurt is done within a certain time frame. If so,

using your method of innoculating, you wouldn't start the timer 'til

the milk gets to approximately 110 degrees F. The time required to

make yoghurt depends on several factors including, but not limited

to, culture (starter) activity, milk temperature, & water bath

(ambient) temperature. Culture activity is mainly determined by the

quality and quantity of starter used. The starter needs food

and

I won't go into that cause the raw milk you're using has plenty of

nutrients. One thing that will cause failure is anti-biotics in the

milk. As long as that isn't the problem and your culture is

active you should be able to

innoculate at about any temp above room temp and enjoy fresh yogurt

12 to 48 hours later. Dennis

February 21, 2002

>The yoghurt maker probably

>indicates the yoghurt is done within a certain time frame.

The Yogourmet doesn't have any indicators like that -- just a red light to

indicate it's plugged in and heating the bath. I understand some people

culture their yoghurt for as little as 4-6 hours, but I've always run it

for 24 hours to eliminate almost all the lactose.

>As long as that isn't the problem and your culture is

>active you should be able to

>innoculate at about any temp above room temp and enjoy fresh yogurt

>12 to 48 hours later.

The milk *should* be fine -- it's from an organic, pasture-only farm. (In

fact, I've suddenly gotten a craving for the milk, which is unusual, since

I don't normally like milk. It's given me a little digestive difficulty,

but much less than pasteurized milk.)

I left it in about 26 hours, which I would've thought would be more than

enough. OTOH, some people have told me that you need more starter for a

fattier mix, and since this is Jersey milk and cream, it's definitely fattier.

-

February 21, 2002

Hi ,

>>Hmm, there are two separate heating issues, I think<<

Yes, and I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear before.

And I was hoping too that the raw milk wouldn't have to be heated. I wonder what

a cow's normal temperature is!

>>Actually, I've found that disturbing the yoghurt at all before it's chilled

tends to mess up the texture, so I just take it out of the Yogourmet and leave

it in the fridge overnight before having any.<<

Yup, those yogurt fairies are very sensitive

-

February 21, 2002

Belinda-

>heh...I can do the same thing in my picnic type cooler for less money, I'm

>sure and I'm cheap!

Hmm, how do you keep the temperature constant? My oven doesn't use a

pilot, and I don't have any reliably warm place in my apartment.

-

February 21, 2002

I have a Yogourmet and I have a source for raw cow milk. The only

success I had was after heating the milk to 180F (ouch) and then

adding about 6 times the recommended amount of starter culture

(expensive).

I tried the same (with extra culture)but heating the milk to only

110 and the yogurt didn't set, even after I gave it time in the

fridge.

I am happy enough with Piima milk and would try kefir, but my family

really likes firm yogurt. I haven't had the best of luck with milk

cultures, every time I think I have it, I start to get inconsistant

results.

By the way, sometimes I get milk still warm from the cow and it

clabbers really nicely. The clabber curds are every bit as nice as

yogurt to my taste, but my family doesn't want that, they want

yogurt.

I'm really interested in other peoples' solutions.

Laurie L.

February 21, 2002

>I love the Yogourmet even though

>it's about $80 and $14 for an extra container.

It's $60 at Lucy's Kitchen Shop -

http://www.lucyskitchenshop.com/yogourmet.html.

> My favorite so far from this

>list is the glass container inside the Excalibur(?) dehydrator.

I'd love to get one of those! Maybe once I manage to switch to a more raw

diet I'll discover it's essential.

-

February 21, 2002

My favorite and thrifty yogurt making device is a medium sized

styrofoam cooler. I cut a small hole in the backside to add my heat

source: those tiny Christmas tree lights! I got a small strand, and

put however many lights it takes to stay witnin temperature. I plug

up the hole with something, have a thermometer inside the box, but

also have one of those meat thermometers poked through a hole in the

lid so I can monitor the temp without opening the lid all the time.

Works great for me!! It can also serve as a warm place to keep your

porridge with one or two bulbs inside...

Becky

>

> > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:33:41 EST

> > From: bilherbs@a...

> > Subject: Re: Raw milk yoghurt fails?

> >

> > In a message dated 2/20/02 8:27:25 PM Central Standard Time,

> > Idol@c... writes:

> >

> >> Hmm, how do you keep the temperature constant? My oven doesn't

use a

> >> pilot, and I don't have any reliably warm place in my apartment.

>

> >

> > I boil some water and put about an inch in the cooler then place

the yogurt

> > in the cooler. I make yogurt in gallon jars, sometimes 2 gallons

worth at a

> > time. The yogurt is at about 115 the cooler is pretty warm. In

very cold

> > weather (we heat with wood, mornings are chilly here) I put a

pile of coats

> > or something on top of the cooler. A friend puts her's by the

water heater

> > another actually has radiators and places her cooler near one of

them.

> >

> > I have made cheese straight from the goat or cow but never tried

yogurt as my

> > starter is usually in the fridge and would make the milk too

cool. If I ever

> > get my act together to take it out the night before or something

then I'll

> > try it at animal temperature <G> and let you all know how it

turns out.

> >

> > Belinda

>

> I was taught to wrap the yogurt pot in a quilt and put it on the

floor in a

> corner, but that doesn't work so well for those who must incubate

for 24

> hours at a constant temperature to remove all lactose. There are

other

> methods than using the Yogourmet, such as the light bulb in the

foam cooler

> or the roaster/polder thermometer combo. I love the Yogourmet even

though

> it's about $80 and $14 for an extra container. My favorite so far

from this

> list is the glass container inside the Excalibur(?) dehydrator.

February 21, 2002

> Aw shucks,

>

> What is wrong with Kefir? It doesn't require any heating at all :-)

sbsolutely does not go with Indian food. Just fails miserably.

Soren

February 21, 2002

>but my family

>really likes firm yogurt.

Unfortunately, it seems that the only way to get really firm yoghurt is to

heat the milk a lot. Otherwise it's going to be thin and runny, though my

raw milk yoghurt actually turned out thicker than my pasteurized milk

yoghurt has been. Unfortunately, heating damages the milk and makes it

less digestible and less nutritious.

-

February 26, 2002

I've found that if I turn on the oven for about a minute and then leave the

oven light on, it stays about 110 degrees in the oven - nice for soaking,

yogurt, etc.

Peace,

Kris , gardening in northwest Ohio