soil fertility and practical information

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I have been following the soil fertility thread with interest now and

everytime that it has come up in the past. I would like to know how

to apply this information in a practical way in my own garden. I'm

just starting to lay out the garden and would like to know what

exactly to do to increase my soil fertility and how to determine when

I reach high fertility. What do you use to measure soil fertility?

How do you know what ammendments to add?

My other question: For those of us who so desperately want high

quality food grown on fertile soil, how can we make sure that we are

getting it? How do you test for this sort of thing? How do you test

for high quality grains? Milk? Or anything for that matter??

I'm in full agreement with the folks on this list on the importance

of soil fertility, yet am stumpted to figure out the practical

application of it all...Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Becky

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " beckymauldin2001 " <beckymauldin@h...>

wrote:

> I would like to know how to apply this information in a

> practical way in my own garden. I'm just starting to lay out

> the garden and would like to know what exactly to do to increase

> my soil fertility and how to determine when I reach high

> fertility. What do you use to measure soil fertility?

> How do you know what ammendments to add?

Hi Becky:

Good questions. After you learn something is broken you may want to

learn how to fix it.

Current soil science looks at soil fertility from a chemical point of

view. You can do a soil test which attempts to measure the available

minerals in the soil. In some cases minerals which are low in the

soil test are actually in the soil but just not available. A simple

soil test should report the base saturation percentage of the major

cation minerals like calcium, magnesium and potassium along with the

pH. Desirable numbers are around 70% for calcium, 10% for magnesium

and 3 to 5% for potassium. Desirable pH would be about 6.2. The test

should also give you your soil's cation exchange capacity, which is

its capacity to hold these minerals in available form for the plants.

It doesn't matter if you have any understanding of what I just said.

If you want, just do a test and post the numbers here.

The results of the soil test will be a guide as to what ammendments

you should add.

> My other question: For those of us who so desperately want high

> quality food grown on fertile soil, how can we make sure that we

> are getting it? How do you test for this sort of thing?

> How do you test for high quality grains? Milk?

> Or anything for that matter??

While the soil test measuring available minerals can be a guide in

measuring soil fertility, my opinion on how to measure soil fertility

is differnece from that of modern agriculture. Instead of looking at

the available minerals in the soil, I think it is better to look at

the plants and/or animals that depend on that soil for their

nutrition.

When plants are so healthy that they are not attacked by insects or

disease, they are also high in nutrition. When plants are being

attacked by insects, you can thank the insects for pointing out the

plants are of low nutritional value. Diseased plandts will also be of

low nutritional value. Fruit from high soil fertility will dry out

instead of rotting when stored.

If you want an instrument that can be a big help in determining the

nutritional value of food, a refractometer would be a good choice. It

is good when comparing the same variety of plant when grown in

different soils. The problem with the refractometer is when you try

to compare an open-pollinated variety with a comparable hybrid

variety. The hybrid may read higher on the refractometer when it is

less nutritious. The solution is to avoid hybid varieties. Hybid

varieties has been designed with yield in mind, not nutrition. This

includes avoiding hybrid varieties that are organically grown.

As with plants, so too with animals. Healthy animals produce healthy

food. One way to judge a dairy herd is to see the animals yourself

and see if they look healthy. Asking the farmer what the average

veterinary bill per animal is would also be a guide. As far as

judging the nutritional value of the milk goes, the best question

might be what color is the butter? The milk, of course, should be

raw, but raw milk does not guarantee nutritious milk. The feed of the

dairy cows will help determine the nutritional quality of the milk.

The best would be 100% grass fed, green in season and hay in the off-

season. You can even question the grass the farmer is growing in the

pasture. If it's a hybid variety, that is a bad sign. Since cows have

been bred by the dairy industry for higher volume at the expense of

nutrition, I would advise not to buy your dairy products from a herd

of holsteins. In addition the cows should be low volume producers

compared to the modern dairy farm. If the milk is of high nutritional

quality, cavities should mineralize over and you and your family

shouldn't be getting new cavities.

A farmer who is interested in nutrition will welcome questions based

on these points. A farmer who is upset by being asked questions on

these points probably isn't really interested in nutrition, even if

he or she pretends to be interested in nutrition.

By the way, I am sorry to say that until proven otherwise, you should

probably assume food was grown for high yield in low soil fertility,

whether or not it was organically grown.

Chi

[Guest guest]

Wow, Chi, thanks for the help! I'm still pretty new at this, but am

learning fast, and I appreciate your knowledge in this area. I have

gotten my soil tested and would love to hear your thoughts on the

results.

Phosphorus is 27 lbs/acre

Potassium is 199 lbs/acre

Calcium is 780 lbs/ acre

Magnesium is 150 lbs/acre

Zinc is 8 lbs/acre

Manganese is 13 lbs/acre

Soil ph is 5.70

I'm not sure how to interpret this according to what you said, so any

advice would be appreciated. I plan on adding a fair amount of lime,

some greensand, kelp meal, and as much compost and manure as I can

get.

My other goal is to ammend the soil of an area that will be pasture

for goats one day soon. It is about 3/4 of an acre and I'm not sure

how to go about it... The figures of the soil analysis above should

be similar for this pasture area. I was thinking of broadcasting

lime and greensand or maybe Azomite on top of the grass...what would

you suggest?

One thing you and others may find interesting...I was getting nice

eggs from a local guy. The chickens are healthy, run around, get

sunlight, but are mainly in a big barn type chicken house. The yolks

of these eggs are a BRIGHT yellow, much brighter than grocery store

eggs...And I thought these eggs were good quality! Well, another

farmer I've met since then has chickens that are in a movable pen

that is positioned on this farmer's fertile soil. In that particular

area of land, the farmer planted rye grass. The grass is lush and

beautiful, and he just moves the chicken pen along the row of grass

each day. The yolks of those eggs were the deepest, brighest ORANGE

I've ever seen, definately not yellow, these were orange and brighter

than the color of a school bus!! I think the importance of soil

fertility was made crystal clear to me through this experience and

now I'm just trying to get my own soil that fertile...

Becky

> > I would like to know how to apply this information in a

> > practical way in my own garden. I'm just starting to lay out

> > the garden and would like to know what exactly to do to increase

> > my soil fertility and how to determine when I reach high

> > fertility. What do you use to measure soil fertility?

> > How do you know what ammendments to add?

>

> Hi Becky:

> Good questions. After you learn something is broken you may want to

> learn how to fix it.

> Current soil science looks at soil fertility from a chemical point

of

> view. You can do a soil test which attempts to measure the

available

> minerals in the soil. In some cases minerals which are low in the

> soil test are actually in the soil but just not available. A simple

> soil test should report the base saturation percentage of the major

> cation minerals like calcium, magnesium and potassium along with

the

> pH. Desirable numbers are around 70% for calcium, 10% for magnesium

> and 3 to 5% for potassium. Desirable pH would be about 6.2. The

test

> should also give you your soil's cation exchange capacity, which is

> its capacity to hold these minerals in available form for the

plants.

> It doesn't matter if you have any understanding of what I just

said.

> If you want, just do a test and post the numbers here.

> The results of the soil test will be a guide as to what ammendments

> you should add.

>

>

> > My other question: For those of us who so desperately want high

> > quality food grown on fertile soil, how can we make sure that we

> > are getting it? How do you test for this sort of thing?

> > How do you test for high quality grains? Milk?

> > Or anything for that matter??

>

> While the soil test measuring available minerals can be a guide in

> measuring soil fertility, my opinion on how to measure soil

fertility

> is differnece from that of modern agriculture. Instead of looking

at

> the available minerals in the soil, I think it is better to look at

> the plants and/or animals that depend on that soil for their

> nutrition.

> When plants are so healthy that they are not attacked by insects or

> disease, they are also high in nutrition. When plants are being

> attacked by insects, you can thank the insects for pointing out the

> plants are of low nutritional value. Diseased plandts will also be

of

> low nutritional value. Fruit from high soil fertility will dry out

> instead of rotting when stored.

> If you want an instrument that can be a big help in determining the

> nutritional value of food, a refractometer would be a good choice.

It

> is good when comparing the same variety of plant when grown in

> different soils. The problem with the refractometer is when you try

> to compare an open-pollinated variety with a comparable hybrid

> variety. The hybrid may read higher on the refractometer when it is

> less nutritious. The solution is to avoid hybid varieties. Hybid

> varieties has been designed with yield in mind, not nutrition. This

> includes avoiding hybrid varieties that are organically grown.

> As with plants, so too with animals. Healthy animals produce

healthy

> food. One way to judge a dairy herd is to see the animals yourself

> and see if they look healthy. Asking the farmer what the average

> veterinary bill per animal is would also be a guide. As far as

> judging the nutritional value of the milk goes, the best question

> might be what color is the butter? The milk, of course, should be

> raw, but raw milk does not guarantee nutritious milk. The feed of

the

> dairy cows will help determine the nutritional quality of the milk.

> The best would be 100% grass fed, green in season and hay in the

off-

> season. You can even question the grass the farmer is growing in

the

> pasture. If it's a hybid variety, that is a bad sign. Since cows

have

> been bred by the dairy industry for higher volume at the expense of

> nutrition, I would advise not to buy your dairy products from a

herd

> of holsteins. In addition the cows should be low volume producers

> compared to the modern dairy farm. If the milk is of high

nutritional

> quality, cavities should mineralize over and you and your family

> shouldn't be getting new cavities.

> A farmer who is interested in nutrition will welcome questions

based

> on these points. A farmer who is upset by being asked questions on

> these points probably isn't really interested in nutrition, even if

> he or she pretends to be interested in nutrition.

> By the way, I am sorry to say that until proven otherwise, you

should

> probably assume food was grown for high yield in low soil

fertility,

> whether or not it was organically grown.

> Chi

[Guest guest]

Becky et al,

We're all learning here...

I thought that the main cause of beautiful, ORANGE egg yolks was that the

chickens had access to insects and such. Perhaps " all of the above " is the

right answer: BOTH high-quality plants from high-quality soils (as you

suggest), AND access to bugs (who eat high-quality plants) increase the

nutritional value of a chicken's eggs.

I've had good orange eggs from a farmer who says he chose his breed of

chickens because this particular breed is known to be very skilled and

serious about finding bugs to eat. (Sorry I can't remember the name of the

breed.) I think this farmer is also very serious about his soil quality,

so the orange might come from both plants/ soils and bugs here.

" beckymauldin200

1 "

<beckymauldin@ho cc:

tmail.com> Subject: Re:

soil fertility and practical

information

02/15/2002 08:41

PM

Please respond

to

Yeah, I am starting to " get it " , but it is harder to tell the quality

of fruits and veggies, milk, and grains, and you helped clarify a

few things. I remember someone mentioning the color of the eggs has

something to do with the nutrient level, and when I saw this in

action, it made an impact, to say the least. Your posts on this

subject have gotten me thinking of the lack of nutrients in most

soils and it's effects on the food supply. And Weston Price's book

has made such an impact with me on the importance of a high quality

diet, and now I can see how soil fertility had EVERYTHING to do with

the health of those cultures. It's all starting to sink in.....

Thanks!!

Becky

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the information, Aubin, we are wanting to get some chickens.

Marcella

>From: Aubin Parrish <aubinparrish@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Re: soil fertility and practical

>information

>Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:26:51 -0800 (PST)

>

>--- safallon@... wrote:

> > Dear ,

> >

> > would be very interested in the name of the chicken

> > breed that is good at

> > finding bugs, if you can find it. Thanks, Sally

>

>Mother Earth News had an article in the Feb/Mar 2002

>issue about Black Java chickens, an ancient breed that

>was near extinction (still is). It said " Java

>chickens have a peaceful temperament and forage, lay

>and grow with little human involvement. " Many breeds

>of chickens that are excellent foragers, in my

>experience, are also very difficult to handle and

>contain when necessary, because they have excitable

>dispositions. You can get more info about this breed

>here:

>http://www.cyborganic.com/People/feathersite/Poultry/CGD/Java/JavaStat.html

>

>Aubin

>

>__________________________________________________

>