Re: speaking of sexual harassment, etc.....

[Guest guest]

Nanne wrote:

> ----------For some reason, I'm seeing other people

> respond to others' posts that are not coming through

> in my email, s' for instance.

It must be a Yahoo thing. I sometimes get responses from my posts before

they come through to my mailbox. I remember one time Jane responded to a

post of mine, and half an hour later my post finally arrived in my e-mail

box.

Take care,

Gail :-) *the suddenly talkative*

[Guest guest]

Jeanette wrote:

> wrote:

>

> > What if the woman is the rapist? Is it still not her fault?

>

> Obviously, if a woman is a rapist, then her " fault " is being a rapist

> or child molester. But how can a woman rape a man? I guess she could

> if she sodomized him with an istrument. But you can't get certain

> items to stand up, if you know what I mean and have a woman rape a

> man that way. SEDUCE, yes. And if she has bad intentions, like

> using him- that is wrong.

My objection is to you using " man " where " rapist " is the correct term.

They are not interchangeable terms. A lot of feminists want to think

that they are, or that all men are rapists that just have not committed

rape yet, and that is not accurate.

> I was talking about when a WOMAN is raped. Not the other way around.

> I imagine the statistics on women being raped by men are way higher

> than men being raped by women.

If you flip that the other way, though, most men have not raped anyone,

so to use " men " to mean " rapists " is not accurate nor fair to men.

> OK. You got me. I'm a biased- You're right, I know, it's presumed

> innocent. ( But I'm still biased- I'm trying to be more balanced, but

> it's hard! I definatly shouldn't be on the jury)

>

> I'm sorry , it's hard for me to have sympathy for an NBA player.

> In the end, he will still have millions.

That is not relevant. What is relevant is that someone here is accusing

the other of something that is not true. One of them is right; the

other is a victim, even if that person will still be an NBA player with

millions of dollars afterward. Wrongly accused is wrongly accused,

regardless of your job title and income.

> She may lose her sanity and

> kill herself or worse.

If she has accused him unfairly, I won't shed a tear for her if she

makes that choice. And if her accusations are correct, then she has as

much sympathy as I can muster, and should pay. I simply do not

know what the facts are... the " evidence " we have seen in the media has

been a lot of he-said, she-said. First I heard that she was heard to be

almost bragging about the event at a party shortly after the alleged

attack, then I hear that someone saw her with torn clothes, very upset,

running away from his room. None of it, by the time it makes it onto

the TV news, is credible. It's all TV-ratings masturbation... it tells

us nothing about whether the accusations of are accurate.

> No one wins in this whole thing- it's not good for anyone.

Agreed.

> No, they don't have the right to destroy him either, until a guilty

> verdict comes in. If he is innocent it's unfair for him to lose

> endorsements and lots of money. The entire affair should have been

> kept private, for everyone's sake.

Yes, and if one of the people were not famous, it would have been much

more private. It is also less likely that this would have happened.

Whether she was raped or not, she did go up to his room of her own

volition, and she did that, almost certainly, because he is famous. Of

course, and it is almost too obvious to mention this, his fame does not

give him the right to violate anyone.

> One thing we know for sure is that he DID cheat on his wife, by his

> own admisson. He said he was sorry, but in my opinon that was a

> pathetic apology. You know, that is going to affect his reputation.

> Not as bad as a full on rape, but it has an effect, no matter

> what-even if he apologises. Some people say it was real and others

> no. Who really knows- only Kobe.

And his alleged victim.

He did cheat on his wife, that is true, but hell, we gave the President

of the US a pass on that, not to mention lying under oath about it... so

apparently, cheating on one's spouse is not terribly important in the US

now. Certainly, I do not condone cheating (I've never cheated nor been

cheated on, as far as I know, fwiw), but it is a lot less serious than

rape. I consider cheating to be a private matter between the husband

and wife, for the most part, whereas rape is an offense against society

as well as the victim.

[Guest guest]

> He did cheat on his wife, that is

> true, but hell, we gave the President

> of the US a pass on that, not to men-

> tion lying under oath about it... so

> apparently, cheating on one's spouse

> is not terribly important in the US

> now.

I'm one of those (apparently rare)

aspies who *can* read expressions and

body language,and it was obvious to me

that Clinton was lying in the famous

" I did not have sexual relations, with

that woman, Miss Lewinsky " statement.

He wasn't looking at the camera, but

instead kept his eyes to his left side,

a dead giveaway.

> Certainly, I do not condone cheating

> (I've never cheated nor been cheated on,

> as far as I know, fwiw), but it is a lot

> less serious than rape. I consider

> cheating to be a private matter between

> the husband and wife, for the most part,

I'll note that you said, " for the most part " ,

but want to spell out who else is involved -

the kids. The ones who become victims of

divorce and therefor grow up without a father

in the house, and their mother becomes so em-

bittered that whenever she mentions his name,

she spits it out. The kids who have to listen

to each parent downgrade the other, until they

lose their own self-esteem because of it.

> whereas rape is an offense against society

> as well as the victim.

Does that depend on what your definition of

" is " is? 8<{)

Clay

www.mogulmarketing.com/clay/chipsy.htm

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>My objection is to you using " man " where " rapist " is the correct term.

>They are not interchangeable terms.

OK- I don't think ALL men are rapists, that is ridiculous. No, technically the

terms are not interchangeable. No, most men are not rapists.

A lot of feminists want to think

>that they are, or that all men are rapists that just have not committed

>rape yet, and that is not accurate.

I don't think a lot do, just ones like Dworkin. I do like her work, but

sometimes she goes way over the edge. A lot of feminists now adays are doing

things like " Girl Power " Spice Girl bullshit, saying " we can be feminine and

strong too " which would be great if they didn't objectify themselves and run

around nude in the process, playing typical female roles- in a more covert way.

They actually push themselves further into subsmissive feminine roles.

>What is relevant is that someone here is accusing

>the other of something that is not true. One of them is right; the

>other is a victim, even if that person will still be an NBA player with

>millions of dollars afterward. Wrongly accused is wrongly accused,

>regardless of your job title and income.

OK, I see what you mean now.

> One thing we know for sure is that he DID cheat on his wife, by his

> own admisson. He said he was sorry, but in my opinon that was a

> pathetic apology. You know, that is going to affect his reputation.

> Not as bad as a full on rape, but it has an effect, no matter

> what-even if he apologises. Some people say it was real and others

> no. Who really knows- only Kobe.

>And his alleged victim.

I was talking about the sincerity of his apology to his wife.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

--- Jeanette wrote:

>

>

> WHAT the HELL is she going to get out of lying?

--------$$$$$$$$$$$$

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

--- Gail Pennington wrote:

> Hi again Nanne!

>

> (I'm the little chatterbox today, aren't I?)

>

> You wrote:

> > ------What do you do with your music; listen to

> it,

> > play it, dance to it? That's good you have

> something

> > that helps you with that.

>

> Listen to it and rock. It helps me really feel it.

-----do you ever rock to reggae? very good for rocking

and swaying. (and yeah, I'm still trying to find

other spectrum folk who have this also, I can't be the

only one......unless, most of the folks at a reggae

show are spectrumites and don't know it, ha!)

Nanne

>

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

--- DeGraf wrote:

> Jeanette danced around singing:

> >But how can a woman rape a man? I guess she could

> if she sodomized him

> >with an istrument. But you can't get certain items

> to stand up, if you

> >know what I mean and have a woman rape a man that

> way.

>

> From what I've heard, it's possible to make a man

> erect by touching him

> correctly, whether *he* wants it to do that or not.

> There are some guys

> out there (like my ex) that are so incapable of

> saying " no " -- just like

> some women -- that they really would just sit there

> feeling helpless. So I

> can very easily see a man with the inability to

> reject women in a situation

> where an aggressive female manages to use his body

> for sex even though he

> doesn't want it at all.

>

---------The only problem with this, is that I

seriously doubt that a vagina could bruise, rip or

tear a penis in that kind of situation, whereas a

penis can definitely bruise, rip, and tear the inside

of a vagina.

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

Nanne wrote:

>

> WHAT the HELL is she going to get out of lying?

--------$$$$$$$$$$$$

HOW IS SHE GOING TO DO THAT? She's barely believed now, the target of death

threats, she'll be lucky if she gets a conviction- what jury would award her

money? Her story and her reputation are so messed up right now, that I don't

think she can sue and win under any circumstances. They can barely find an

impartial jury ( for both sides) how are they going to get an impartial civil

jury?

Besides, is it worth it? No way in hell to me. Some silly money or your life?

I'd keep my life. I just can't see her suing. I could be totally wrong. Maybe

she lied about the whole thing and get millions. I just can't see it, though.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

--- DeGraf wrote:

> Jeanette danced around singing:

> >But how can a woman rape a man? I guess she could

> if she sodomized him

> >with an istrument. But you can't get certain items

> to stand up, if you

> >know what I mean and have a woman rape a man that

> way.

>

> From what I've heard, it's possible to make a man

> erect by touching him

> correctly, whether *he* wants it to do that or not.

> There are some guys

> out there (like my ex) that are so incapable of

> saying " no " -- just like

> some women -- that they really would just sit there

> feeling helpless. So I

> can very easily see a man with the inability to

> reject women in a situation

> where an aggressive female manages to use his body

> for sex even though he

> doesn't want it at all.

I never thought that was possible.

Nanne wrote:

>

---------The only problem with this, is that I

seriously doubt that a vagina could bruise, rip or

tear a penis in that kind of situation, whereas a

penis can definitely bruise, rip, and tear the inside

of a vagina.

I agree. I also still don't think this compares to the violation a woman feels.

I think a man wanting to say no but can't is hard to visualize, I guess it's

possible, but it's not like his life is threatened unless she has a gun to his

head, and I can't see things working then. If a man won't say no it may be an

ego thing- " how could I refuse a woman- am I gay? " it's very hard for me to

believe, but I can't say it never happens.

Unless sodomy is committed, which men and women can do, a woman " raping " a man

would not be as violent or instrusive as a woman being raped.

Men are usually raped by other men.

To be honest with you, I have never ever heard of a case where a man was raped

by a woman- in the way you describe (actually in anyway). If you can find one

let me know.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

--- Jeanette wrote:

> Nanne wrote:

>

> >

> > WHAT the HELL is she going to get out of lying?

>

> --------$$$$$$$$$$$$

>

>

> HOW IS SHE GOING TO DO THAT? She's barely

> believed now, the target of death threats, she'll be

> lucky if she gets a conviction- what jury would

> award her money? Her story and her reputation are

> so messed up right now, that I don't think she can

> sue and win under any circumstances. They can

> barely find an impartial jury ( for both sides) how

> are they going to get an impartial civil jury?

>

> Besides, is it worth it? No way in hell to me.

> Some silly money or your life? I'd keep my life. I

> just can't see her suing. I could be totally wrong.

> Maybe she lied about the whole thing and get

> millions. I just can't see it, though.

>

> Jeanette

>

----------Those things called out of court

settlements.

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

Nanne wrote:

----------Those things called out of court

settlements.

Nanne

Look, call me naive, or whatever- I just don't understand it. I can't picture

it myself- how could any person put themselves through the nation wide

humiliation, reputation damage, death threats, etc, for MONEY?

I would never do that to myself- falsely accuse someone of rape to get money.

There's too many moral code breaches, loss of self respect, not to mention the

damage it does to rape victims and the women's movement.

I hope she's not lying. We'll see how the evidence presents itself. If she is

I'll be disgusted.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

--- Jane Meyerding wrote:

> Here

>

http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SA/en/display/288

> is the URL for a reveiw I wrote (in 1996) of a book

> by a man

> who was fired (from the university where I work)

> because of

> sexual harrassment.

>

> Jane

>

----------That's a good article, Jane, very

interesting.

In this part:

" We need to learn to live justly with people who do

harm, whether the harm in question is murder or

" nontraditional expressions of sexuality " that cause

another person psychological pain. The traditional

method, as employed against Sol Saporta, is to throw

the offending party away. That's not going to work

when we get where we're headed, so we might as well

start thinking about it now. " --- Jane Meyerding

Are you saying you didn't agree with his firing?

Nanne

P.S. Wouldn't the rate of rapes be likely to be a lot

higher in a state of anarchy, than it is now?

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

Here

http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SA/en/display/288

is the URL for a reveiw I wrote (in 1996) of a book by a man

who was fired (from the university where I work) because of

sexual harrassment.

Jane

[Guest guest]

--- Miko715@... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/12/2003 9:26:27 PM Eastern

> Daylight Time,

> ceruleaniwa@... writes:

>

> > -----do you ever rock to reggae? very good for

> rocking

> > and swaying. (and yeah, I'm still trying to

> find

> > other spectrum folk who have this also, I can't be

> the

> > only one......unless, most of the folks at a

> reggae

> > show are spectrumites and don't know it, ha!)

> >

> > Nanne

> >

>

> Oh, I've started doing this yes, I love rocking to

> reggae, yes, there is an

> outside bar on the beach strip yes, that places

> reggae, yes, on south beach,

> yes.

>

> Juli ASD mother to Nicollette Rett Syndrome w/autism

>

-------Oh yay! (and outdoors, how wonderful; on the

beach, even better!) Do you have a collection of some

at home? Any favorite singers/bands?

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

--- Jeanette wrote:

> Nanne wrote:

>

>

> Look, call me naive, or whatever- I just don't

> understand it. I can't picture it myself- how could

> any person put themselves through the nation wide

> humiliation, reputation damage, death threats, etc,

> for MONEY?

-------Well, I can't conceive of it either,

personally, I'm just saying it's happened before and

wouldn't be the first time, *if* that happnes.

>

> I would never do that to myself- falsely accuse

> someone of rape to get money. There's too many

> moral code breaches, loss of self respect, not to

> mention the damage it does to rape victims and the

> women's movement.

---------Of course, neither would I.

>

> I hope she's not lying. We'll see how the evidence

> presents itself. If she is I'll be disgusted.

>

> Jeanette

---------- The only evidence that would prove

anything would be the results of a pap that revealed

bruising and tearing of the vagina. Without that, it

could only be he said/she said.

Whichever way it goes, Kobe will never be

cheating on his wife again, I bet.

Nanne

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

Jeanette danced around singing:

>To be honest with you, I have never ever heard of a case where a man was

>raped by a woman- in the way you describe (actually in anyway). If you

>can find one let me know.

Just found this one:

<http://www.fathermag.com/news/rape/spokane.shtml>

From the " Daily Olympian " Sunday, June 29, 1997 - Section C page 3

The first woman in Spokane County to be convicted of raping a man could

face up to 30 years in prison. A seven-woman; five-man Superior Court jury

on Friday found Theresa S. guilty of first-degree rape and second degree

assault. Theresa S., 36, was accused of torturing the 42 year old man at

her east Spokane apartment from September to January. The victim was

punched, chained, burned, raped, and threatened with a knife. He finally

escaped and called police on January 17.

[Guest guest]

Nanne wrote:

> Are you saying you didn't agree with his firing?

Not quite. I'm saying that we should be trying to find

ways to resolve interpersonal conflicts that don't

rely on exiling anyone from the social world where the

conflict arose. In the case of Saporta, he seemed to

be making a genuine contribution to the university, and

I'd like to think that all those intelligent people

could come up with a resolution that would allow him

to continue being of use.

Was there really no way for the women involved to be

helped to feel safe if he stayed? Was there really no

way to impress upon him the depth and significance of

the pain he had caused? He clearly could not be allowed

to continue the actions that violated other people's

sense of self and safety. But I do believe he could

have been helped to see why it was necessary for him

to change his attitudes in that area (which is the

best possible way to ensure that he would not

re-offend).

I think too often people choose to apply a rule

rather than investing the time and effort required

by a real solution. A university should be leading

in a different direction (ideally).

As for anarchism leading to more rape: No. You may

be thinking of " chaos " rather than anarchy. In

anarchy, people collectively control their own

communities. It's not " no structure, " it's " no

herarchy of power. "

Jane

[Guest guest]

>---------The only problem with this, is that I

>seriously doubt that a vagina could bruise, rip or

>tear a penis in that kind of situation, whereas a

>penis can definitely bruise, rip, and tear the inside

>of a vagina.

>

>Nanne

>

Nanne I really do not think you get it. Its a violation and its not

just the physical scars but the mental scars and stigma afterwards.

As for Vagina well they sometimes stick objects in the boys Anus. I

hope I do not have to spell out what can occur. But peeing and even

other toilet games can happen. Its too sick to think that Women are

capable of this, but I have seen it. We shall leave it at that.

I really feel that Women are excused in Court because of this. Yet

if a Woman says NO thats it. Well it should be the same for a MAN.

A Woman can smother a Man as is what happened to me against my will.

I said no but she carried on. She was a Pagan I met off the

Internet. I am not going into details, but I used to be a Sub etc.

I had low self esteem and I picked up the wrong kind of Women who

wanted to hurt Men. But even so when I said NO it should of meant

it. But she just called me a big baby and carried on.

If a Woman performs a Sexual Act on a Man against his will its Rape.

If a Woman grabs a mans Penis etc against his will its rape or sexual

asult. But whilst Society still thinks that a Man can't be raped

then Many women will get away with it. There are loads of Women that

have come before the courts in the UK and gotten off with Bail for

crimes that would have a Man go down for at least 10 years.

Its stupid to assume that all Men are big macho types and can look

after themselves. Vanda who was my ex was 5ft 10 and big built and

was a Psychiatric Nurse. So I had know chance as she had restrained

many a Patient in her care. The thing is when I tried to tell just

some of it to my councillor she really did not want to know. Again

she took the womans side.

You also should not that there are hundreds of groups for abused

Women. But I have yet to see many that tackle abused Males either by

other Males or Women. Men keep a lot to themselves and Women are

natural listeners who provide their own councilling. But Men have to

grin and bare it and just get on with it. Thats why the rate of

Suicides in Males is higher than that of Women. Women have a big

support network and Empowerment Network. Men do not have this at

all.

Think about it,

Steve

My Aspergers Groups

http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite

http://clix.to/chemer

[Guest guest]

Nanne wrote:

>>---------And still, when it gets down to it, a woman

>>can't really technically rape a man with her sex

>>organs the way a man can rape a woman with his. Aside

>>from the statuatory rape you mention above.

Steve wrote:

>I find this attitude very insulting. Many Women get away with raping

>children and they may not have the sex organs but what is left out

>that they can certainly use their fingers and or smother their face,

>which is what happened to me.

What she was alluding to was just genital rape by women. In no way was anyone

saying that women do not rape or are not abusive. Of course they do- yes, they

abuse children and what-not. The whole thing started by talking about all the

ways it is possible for women to rape. Using her genitals is not one of them,

that's what was intended.

Nor did anyone say that raping boys, even if it's done by a woman, is any less

traumatizing than being raped by a man- we were not talking about children, just

men, and just women using thier genitals.

Of couse, if a woman uses things-whatever they be on a child it will be just as

traumatic as what a man can do. And it doesn't matter if it's a little girl or

boy that is attacked. It's disgusting either way.

>Many Men who rape Women were abused as Children by a Woman. They did

>a survey of Prisons and they found 80% of rapists were abused by

>females either Sexually or Physically as children.

Where did you get this number? Rapists reporting that they were abused is not

credible. They are woman-haters from the beginning, so they could just say that

to get sympathy, or see it that way just because or whatever. I'd never beleive

the word of a rapist.

I personally think all rapists should receive the death penalty- especially if

they rape/ molest a child.

There is no doubt that the main abusers are Men. But at least 25% of

cases are when a female is involved either on her own or with a

partner.

Which cases- child molestation or rape? I think you are right about 25% of

child molestation cases involving women in some way. I remember seeing that on

America's Most Wanted.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

Steve wrote:

>I used to go by Fathermag but most of what they say seems to be blown

>out of proportion and it also seems to be against Women. So to do

>this they print story upon story of Women doing things to kids. If

>you look under the headings you will see all kinds of stories, but

>there doesn't seem to be anything to back it up. As a Child that was

>abused by WOmen. I can tell you this much this only serves to make

>people think its a fantasy and not reality that Women do this.

You're right about them- I could see they were against women from the start. A

bunch of these " fathers rights " groups are merely interested in cutting off

child support and then being able to see the child they refuse to support. They

are also trying to chip away at women's rights. Most of those groups aren't

about helping children at all. Just helping dead beat dads and fathers who

abuse thier children continue to see them (and abuse them).

Some of thier work is legit, like helping paying fathers see thier kids (they

should unless they are abusive), etc.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/13/2003 12:53:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

nourse@... writes:

> which we don't.

>

> NT's do the personal networking thing so much better than we do that it

> is pointless to

> argue whether men or women have better networks, because we are largely

> cut off from

> those networks anyway.

>

> We need to form our own networks. Lists like this one are a very

> useful tool for this.

>

>

> Ride the Music

>

> AndyTiedye

>

i agree no autistic or asp i know truly fits in to these areas, no. some do

try but looks like overcompensating almost, like playing a role to try to fit

in somewhere. it's best we have our own networks, yes as we as spectrumites

just do not fit into these areas, no. autisitic women aren't like typical women.

and autistic men are not at all like typical men. and those that seem to be

are 'really' just pretending to be. i think even the 'so called manly macho'

aspies are full of it. thinking they are really something they are not. and

just trying to fit into the majority but are hardly good at doing so without

looking somewhat ridicules.

my ex-husband was really playing to the hilt the role, yes, as that was what

he was taught to do, yes, and felt that was the way to be, yes. and did that

whole providing, and strip club going, convertible car buying as that was the

'chic' male thing to do in south Miami. he had us dressed a certain way, he

spent a lot of money on designer clothes for us. i even cut mine chin open when

i fell down a flight of steps when he had me get used to walking in those

clunky shoes and tight clothes. he hated it, though, thought silicon tits were

grotesque, his car too flashy, and really could not understand although he

mimicked that whole " good ole' boy " attitude. which just did not fit him, no.

when

i first met him he was a solitary isolated introvert who 'wore' funny

clothing, which was fine by me it was other peoples that said we looked like

fashion

victims. But then he made good business and made NT friends and began to be

this whole other person, yes. only he never got good at it and never really fit

there either.

So I've got to wonder if these so called 'manly' aspies. I mean they play all

manly but really, it's all a show I think, to try to hide who they really

are, yes. generally I feel those on the spectrum fail to fit into any of these

traditional gender roles. Even as much as they try to be.

Juli ASD mother to Nicollette Rett Syndrome w/autism

[Guest guest]

Jeanette wrote:

> Men DO have a vast network of support. It's called the patriarch, good

> ol' boys club, etc.

No aspies or other autistic people allowed. Another one of those

unwritten rules.

> Their bonds are stronger than anything, as long as a guy meets their

> criteria.

which we don't.

NT's do the personal networking thing so much better than we do that it

is pointless to

argue whether men or women have better networks, because we are largely

cut off from

those networks anyway.

We need to form our own networks. Lists like this one are a very

useful tool for this.

Ride the Music

AndyTiedye

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 8/13/2003 9:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, :

>

> > >Sorry if I caused any distress here I just had flash

> > >backs and

> > >pressed the send button. But it needed to be said.

> > >However I do not

> > >think I should of been so graphical but I can still

> > >taste and feel

> > >it. I hate it and its a wonder I have a

> > >relationship today

> > >

> > >Steve

> > >

>

> It is much terrible that this happened to you, yes. And it did

needed to be

> said to make us aware of what is happening.

>

> I know this may be too difficult. Myself I not like to talk about

mine

> experiences but somewhat a relief when I've gotten out of mine

system, yes.

>

> Have you thought of perhaps making a list or group so that men can

talk about

> what happened to themselves? It may be too difficult for you, yes,

but it may

> help other men who are suffered in their silence to talk about what

they may

> be afraid to talk about, yes. and give another man some validity

of what he

> may be feeling.

>

> i would try to do so if i were a man, but as a woman it may be too

difficult

> for a man to relate to me as there are different issues and

feelings at stake

> that i may not know of, being a woman. i know it may be difficult

but you

> would be perfect to help other men in same situations as these, if

you are able to

> do so that is. it would help increase awareness and support for

those who

> have suffered as you have suffered.

>

> Good luck to you and I am pleased you are in a loving environment

now.

>

> Juli ASD mother to Nicollette Rett Syndrome w/autism

>

Yes, a good idea and well said.

Gareth

[Guest guest]

> So I've got to wonder if these so-

> called 'manly' aspies. I mean they

> play all manly but really, it's all

> a show I think, to try to hide who

> they really are, yes. generally I

> feel those on the spectrum fail to

> fit into any of these traditional

> gender roles. Even as much as they

> try to be.

You are SO right, yes.

Clay

[Guest guest]

Neither my husband nor I have found either a women’s support

system in place, or a men’s support system. They don’t exist, at

least for Aspies they don’t. Why are we ranting about stuff that

isn’t there for us?

Louis

Re: speaking of sexual harassment,

etc.....

Steve Wrote:

>Women have a big

>support network and Empowerment Network. Men do not have this

at

>all.

Really? I'd like to know where this group of supporting women

is, because I've never found it. I can't even find a feminist

group anywhere that I can go to and meet.

Men DO have a vast network of support. It's called the

patriarch, good ol' boys club, etc. Their bonds are stronger

than anything, as long as a guy meets their criteria.

The support they offer, however, would not be useful or helpful

to male victims of abuse. In fact, it would probably hurt you

even more, because guys generally don't want to acknowledge they

can be hurt because it's a sign of weakness. That is

unacceptable in the club.

The sort of issues you bring up, about men being abused, opening

up, etc. is part of the men's movement. Here in California there

are a lot of men talking about how they were abused by catholic

priests. They have a whole support network. And it's working.

The priests are being arrested in spite of the fact that the

church wants to cover it up and HAS covered it up and allowed

these guys to contiune being priests and molesting boys for

decades.

I hope you can find support- and someone who has had similar

experiences you can talk with.

Jeanette