Re: Raw eggs & meat - what standards to use? (Bianca, pls. help)

[Guest guest]

>I'm thinking about incorporating some

>raw animal into my life. Easier said than done -- my mother still

>chides my fiance and me for eating too many cooked eggs! (We're

>talking 2 per day.)

Well, then my first piece of advice is to ignore your mother -- on the

subject of food! <g>

>My finance is trepidatious about raw milk.

And well she should be -- if it's regular milk. Pasteurizing milk was

necessitated in large part by modern methods of dairy farming -- confining

the cows in filthy pens and feeding them a grain-based diet that throws off

their internal ecologies and causes massive overgrowths of harmful

bacteria. If a cow roams freely on pasture and just eats grass and other

natural foodstuffs, it will stay clean and healthy and its raw milk will be

excellent. I just got my first raw milk and cream, and they're

*stunningly* tasty.

>For an urban dweller such as myself, if you're going to start eating

>raw eggs - what do you buy? Is just 'organic' ok? Cage free better?

Cage-free is a very important factor, I think, because even if they're just

allowed to roam around on a barn floor, the chickens are likely to be much

cleaner and healthier than battery cage chickens. It's still important to

be careful picking a brand, though. I believe Country Hen advertises that

they've never had a single case of salmonella. I don't like the feed they

use as much as what Gold Circle Farms uses, though -- but even GC serves

their chickens " all vegetarian " crap, including, I believe, soy. I use

their eggs raw all the time without incident, but I'd kill for eggs from a

real biodynamic farm that lets the chickens forage for bugs out on

pasture. In NYC, Hawthorne Valley Farm sells some of their meat and

produce at the Union Square greenmarket, but they don't bring eggs down

here! #$* & *# & #!!!

>Should I believe them? Should I call the farm and ask

>questions? How fresh should the meat be to be eaten raw?

It never hurts to call the farm. Vendors often just don't know.

As to freshness, it may be best to freeze the meat for awhile (perhaps as

long as 14 days) before preparing it raw, but either way, the fresher the

better. If the meat is green or doesn't smell good, skip it.

>What about the concerns that are inevitably raised? A few that

>come to mind are: salmonella, trichinosis (sp?), e.coli (periodically

>in the news) and the Odwalla unpasteurized apple juice that killed

>people several years ago.

Again, though disease can strike anywhere, the epidemic nature of these

problems results from modern agriculture and husbandry practices -- feeding

animals the wrong foods, cramming them into filthy pens, etc. Fruits and

vegetables are much more disease-resistant if grown properly on fertile

soil. And pasteurization and other similar treatments kill the food's

built-in immune system, allowing contamination to bloom unopposed.

>Raw fish is socially acceptible but expensive.

No kidding. And if you skip the rice, you can have an entire expensive

meal of sashimi that's basically no more than an appetizer.

>And finally, any advice on feeding cats would be appreciated.

BARF! BARF all the way -- Bones And Raw Food. Search the web for sites

about BARF and its advocate, Dr. Ian Billinghurst. One caution: though I'm

not a cat person, I believe I've heard that they're harder to switch over

to BARF than dogs, and special care needs to be taken. But I'm sure other

people can help you out in that department.

All in all, good luck!

-

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:52:16 -0000 " biophile410 " <biophile410@...>

writes:

I've been closely following the threads on raw foods (with special

interest in Bianca's posts). I'm thinking about incorporating some

raw animal into my life. Easier said than done -- my mother still

chides my fiance and me for eating too many cooked eggs! (We're

talking 2 per day.) My finance is trepidatious about raw milk.

Me: Does your mother chide you about eggs because she thinks they are bad

for you?

I have found a good way to get people on board about milk is to have them

read Dr. s' book, The Milk Book: How Science is Destroying

Nature's Nearly Perfect Food. Its funny, irreverent, and a good intro to

raw foods in general. With the exception of the comments about coconut

oil, which he now says he was wrong about, it is a very good book.

For an urban dweller such as myself, if you're going to start eating

raw eggs - what do you buy? Is just 'organic' ok? Cage free better?

(These are the only types I see at the store.) How fresh do they need

to be? What questions should one ask at the store, to determine

what eggs are ok to eat raw and what aren't?

Me: I have a chapter in my book (in progress) called " Organic is Not

Enough " . You want eggs from chickens which have not been fed vegetarian

feed only, but eat grass, insects, small animals, what have you. Chickens

are not vegetarians.

Cage free has about as much legal meaning as free range, which means it

has no real meaning at all. If possible, find a local source, ask as many

questions as needed for your satisfaction, visit the farm if you can, and

pick them up as soon as they are available. Mine are never more than a

day or two old. You obviously can keep them longer than that.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:52:16 -0000 " biophile410 " <biophile410@...>

writes:

Similar questions for raw beef and lamb. My local butcher shop

says it's all grass fed from a farm called White Mountain (No.

California). Should I believe them? Should I call the farm and ask

questions? How fresh should the meat be to be eaten raw?

Me: No, call, write or email the farm directly to find out exactly what

they do. I can't tell you the countless times that I been told one thing

from the vendor and discovered something different from the source. If

they seem irritated by your questions then it is a sure sign to move on.

Also things change, situations are fluid, what is a good source today may

not be next year. So periodically recheck even your good sources. One

reason why buying locally when you can is so important, it is easier to

know what is going on.

I usually eat the meat within a week and never have had any problems

either myself or with patients/clients. I usually wrap the meat in wax

paper and then vacuum wrap it with a food saver and it keeps just fine in

the refrigerator. I'm not convinced that freezing does much of anything

helpful except slow down parasitic growth and it certainly from my

experience harms the nutritional value (less so with organ meats). That

is why the source is so important. So is the handling. They go hand in

hand. It is not an either/or situation.

On the other hand I have had people recover from deadly disease using

ONLY raw commercial meats. I don't recommend this but in the context of a

nearly all raw diet you can get away with comparatively poor flesh food

(not so with dairy). Raw meat, even commercial raw meat, is superb in the

treatment of cancer. And when one is eating nearly all raw a higher

bacteria count generally only leads to a faster detox. The key in this

instance is the smell test. If the food smells bad (even in the

slightest) in its raw state DO NOT consume it raw OR cooked. That is one

reason why I counsel never to buy commercial poultry, because there are

instances of bad chicken being washed and dipped so as to remove the

smell.

I have been told that most toxins and poisons accumulate in the glands,

organs, and bone marrow of commercial meats but that commercial muscle

meat is okay if you have no other choice. That seems to jibe with my

clinical experience. But most of us have a choice and most of us are not

eating 85% or more raw. If you are just adding raw food to your diet as

another option you would probably be better off avoiding commercial meat.

But eating commercial raw beef (or very rare beef) is quite popular here

in Seattle and a number of restaurants offer it.

What about the concerns that are inevitably raised? A few that

come to mind are: salmonella, trichinosis (sp?), e.coli (periodically

in the news) and the Odwalla unpasteurized apple juice that killed

people several years ago. Bianca mentioned Giardia in water is the

one parasite that concerns her; I wonder why that would be of

concern and other commonly cited parasites are not a concern?

Me: I think an earlier post I made pretty much addresses the parasite

issue but I will add a couple of things.

If the smell is bad the bacteria count is too high and the food should

not be consumed. When the food is cooked this built in protective factor

is lost.

E. coli is ubiquitous, so is salmonella. So are many many other bacteria

and parasites. The stuff is everywhere. It normally poses no danger. In a

nutshell, without getting technical, proper handling and feeding solve

this problem both for humans and animals. In all the years of dealing

with raw animal foods this has never been a problem.

It was NEVER shown that Odwalla apple juice was responsible for those

deaths. But the state needed a scapegoat and got one, and Odwalla

predictably caved.

The Giardia wasn't a concern to me but I was asked for some help and I

gave it. Raw Kefir is wonderful at getting rid of foreign parasites.

I recall that NT has raw liver for babies in it. Most people would

simply not be willing to give baby raw meat. I wonder what other

sources (books, etc.) we can find on raw food safety, besides word of

mouth.

Me: Our society is extremely fat phobic and raw phobic. The parasite

issue needs to be rewritten and recast in a very different light. We have

let the relatively few bad cases lead to an hysteria about the whole

subject. If someone finds a book shedding light on raw animal foods from

a perspective other than what is out there, please let me know. I fear

like the cholesterol issue that such info is very hard to find.

Raw fish is socially acceptable but expensive. I notice Bianca didn't

mention raw bird (fine by me!)

Me: make your own sushi and sashimi. Or try fermented fish or tuna tartar

or salmon carpaccio. Lots of options. And I do know people who eat raw

poultry!

..

[Guest guest]

A great source of grass fed buffalo is at www.northstarbison.com. They

will butcher and immediately ship even without freezing if that is your

desire. Their product, at least at the moment, is superb.

[Guest guest]

>Is it okay to buy several dozen eggs and store them, say, for a

>month? two months? how long is too long? is the nutrition

>comprimised? AND how do you store them? what temp? I was thinking of

>wrapping the cartons in plastic to keep them in more humidity, but is this

>a good idea?

Since store-bought eggs are often VERY old, I'm sure you can store

farm-fresh eggs for a respectable amount of time. I'm sure they won't be

nearly as good as fresh, so if you live near a farm and can get eggs

weekly, do that instead, but an egg that you bought fresh from the chicken

and then stored in your fridge for a month is probably still lots better

than a store-bought egg you ate right out of the shopping bag, even aside

from the better diet the farm chicken probably ate.

As to wrapping cartons in plastic, I don't know for sure, but my

grandfather always wrapped eggs in a plastic bag. He said eggs absorb

odors through their shell, and can lose moisture and freshness the same

way. I've done the same and it seems to help somewhat, but I'm still

dealing with lousy store-bought eggs.

-

[Guest guest]

<<Mine [eggs]are never more than a day or two old. You obviously can keep

them longer than that.>>

OH, this reminds me of another question! I was told by the farmer that I

purchased eggs from that they can last " months " . I have read that most eggs in

stores are months old? Also, many recipes call for " fresh " eggs vs older ones.

So... my questions are: Is it okay to buy several dozen eggs and store them,

say, for a month? two months? how long is too long? is the nutrition

comprimised? AND how do you store them? what temp? I was thinking of wrapping

the cartons in plastic to keep them in more humidity, but is this a good idea?

Do they need to breathe? We go through eggs pretty fast, but I was wondering

what the maximum amount of time is that I should store them. She said at the

farm that their eggs, at the time of selling, are no more than a week old.

Thanks

Carolyn