Breast/formula: does it have to be either/or?

[Guest guest]

Request for comments #1:

I've been wondering for some time about something, that, as a childless man,

I can't possibly hope to answer on my own. :-)

There's lots of talk about breast milk vs formula, but I wonder if it needs

to be so black and white... If someone produces insufficient milk, could

they not make the switch to formula and simply reduce their feedings to once

or twice a day (or however much they can support) to continue providing the

antibodies and perhaps other unknown constituents that wouldn't be provided

by other means? It seems to me that such an approach, if possible, might

also in the case of mother's on a SAD diet, serve to help concentrate the

nutrients that they *are* providing in their own milk.

Am I missing something?

Request for comments #2:

We have blood donors, organ donors, tissue donors and plasma donors. Why do

we not yet have a medically regulated program of milk donation in place? If

we can test, store, distribute and administer blood effectively, I can't

understand why mothers who lose their children or who have finished

breast-feeding their baby aren't actively recruited by either a non-profit

(a la Red Cross) or a for-profit (a la various plasma businesses) to donate

or sell their milk for other children? I thought I heard several years ago

about a small organization in Ohio that had started doing exactly what I'm

talking about albeit on a small, relatively informal level. I haven't heard

a thing about them since then though. What happened?

[Guest guest]

Hi .

On #1, most women will stop producing on only one or two feedings a day. This is

why it is such a problem that hospitals give out formula to a new mother before

being discharged. They give the baby a little formula thinking it won't hurt

anything, and then starts the landslide into production problems.

On #2,

There are milk banks, but they are required to pastuerize the milk, thereby

killing off most of the good effects of breastmilk in the first place.

rochester@...

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[Guest guest]

#1.

You're right. It does not have to be either/or. One can use the formula as

a supplement to her supply (Sally mentioned doing this herself in the

article, my friend has twins and finds that she also can't produce enough

for the both of them - so she supplements).

#2.

You're right. These organizations do exist. Although I know very little

about them, women can express and send in their milk to " milk banks. " I

think these organizations even cover the shipping and handling. I don't

know how the milk is distributed. I guess women would need to sign-up for

the program. Interesting, Sally also mentioned wet-nurses in the article,

these women would breastfeed babies whose mothers could not.

[Guest guest]

Request for comments #1:

>

>I've been wondering for some time about something, that, as a childless

>man,

>I can't possibly hope to answer on my own. :-)

>

>There's lots of talk about breast milk vs formula, but I wonder if it needs

>to be so black and white... If someone produces insufficient milk, could

>they not make the switch to formula and simply reduce their feedings to

>once

>or twice a day (or however much they can support) to continue providing the

>antibodies and perhaps other unknown constituents that wouldn't be provided

>by other means? It seems to me that such an approach, if possible, might

>also in the case of mother's on a SAD diet, serve to help concentrate the

>nutrients that they *are* providing in their own milk.

>

>Am I missing something?>>

If a woman like that were to drop nursing to once or twice a day her supply

would decrease even more if not stop all together. Sally's suggestion of an

SNS (supplemental feeder) is a great idea for those who don't have enough. I

agree with her in that there are alot more women out there who simply can

not make enough milk than LLL wants to admit.

>

>

>Request for comments #2:

I believe Sally talks about this on the site. Very few people could afford

to buy breastmilk through a bank. I can see why they don't recruit women who

have just lost a child though. That would be very hard to do. Also it is

hard to maintain a supply by just pumping but some women do it.

I do believe that there are alot of legitimate reasons for not nursing and

it isn't just not making any milk. I just think women should be encouraged

FIRST to change their diet before choosing to use formula when it is a

matter of milk quality.

Marcella

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[Guest guest]

>Very few people could afford

>to buy breastmilk through a bank.

I have often wondered about the breastmilk from a bank. I actually looked into

it and they wanted me to donate the milk, but they would charge the parents for

it, this did not seem very effective. It would be better if they would match

people together to supply milk for someone close to their area. I had always

produced plenty of milk!

Grace,

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.

I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.

I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.

I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.

I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.

I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.

I wish you enough ''Hello's " to get you through the final goodbye.

--anonymous

----- Original Message -----

From: Marcella Mathewes

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 5:43 PM

Subject: Re: Breast/formula: does it have to be either/or?

Request for comments #1:

>

>I've been wondering for some time about something, that, as a childless

>man,

>I can't possibly hope to answer on my own. :-)

>

>There's lots of talk about breast milk vs formula, but I wonder if it needs

>to be so black and white... If someone produces insufficient milk, could

>they not make the switch to formula and simply reduce their feedings to

>once

>or twice a day (or however much they can support) to continue providing the

>antibodies and perhaps other unknown constituents that wouldn't be provided

>by other means? It seems to me that such an approach, if possible, might

>also in the case of mother's on a SAD diet, serve to help concentrate the

>nutrients that they *are* providing in their own milk.

>

>Am I missing something?>>

If a woman like that were to drop nursing to once or twice a day her supply

would decrease even more if not stop all together. Sally's suggestion of an

SNS (supplemental feeder) is a great idea for those who don't have enough. I

agree with her in that there are alot more women out there who simply can

not make enough milk than LLL wants to admit.

>

>

>Request for comments #2:

I believe Sally talks about this on the site. Very few people could afford

to buy breastmilk through a bank. I can see why they don't recruit women who

have just lost a child though. That would be very hard to do. Also it is

hard to maintain a supply by just pumping but some women do it.

I do believe that there are alot of legitimate reasons for not nursing and

it isn't just not making any milk. I just think women should be encouraged

FIRST to change their diet before choosing to use formula when it is a

matter of milk quality.

Marcella

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

[Guest guest]

--- Marcella Mathewes <honoraholmes@...>

wrote:

> Sally's suggestion of an

> SNS (supplemental feeder) is a great idea for those

> who don't have enough. I

> agree with her in that there are alot more women out

> there who simply can

> not make enough milk than LLL wants to admit.

Yes, I agree with this, too. There's unfortunately a

common attitude among some groups that EVERY woman can

breastfeed if she just does what they tell her to do,

and that's just not true, totally aside from obvious

medical reasons. It can come across as contempt for

any woman who doesn't breastfeed, regardless of the

reason, and as disbelieving of any explanation for why

breastfeeding wasn't succesful.

> I do believe that there are alot of legitimate

> reasons for not nursing and

> it isn't just not making any milk. I just think

> women should be encouraged

> FIRST to change their diet before choosing to use

> formula when it is a

> matter of milk quality.

I agree, which is why I wish NT gave more emphasis to

making better breastmilk via improving the mother's

diet. It's mentioned, but does not get anywhere near

the treatment that making formula does, which as I

said before can give the impression that making

formula is preferable to improving breastmilk. I

would dearly love to believe that Sally plans to

publish a book dedicated to nutrition for pregnancy

and lactation and for children, as was mentioned on

this list a while back.

I really hope I don't come across as saying I think

Sally and the WAPF are wrong for promoting a healthier

alternative to commercial formula for those situations

where breastfeeding isn't possible. It's just that I

do understand how people could interpret many of the

comments in both NT and Wise Traditions as being more

supportive of giving homemade formula than of putting

that same effort into improving the mom's diet. Not

the entire chapter or article, but quite a few

comments can seem that way when taken without a full

perspective. I'm sure it's an attempt to present the

unvarnished truth about the nutritive quality of

breastmilk from a mom on a typical modern diet, and

about the results of various studies comparing

breastfed and formulafed babies, but it tends to come

across as applying to *all* breastfeeding rather than

just the " average " (meaning typically deficient in

nutrition) mother, and that it's not practical to try

to improve the mother's diet. I think if it's

practical to find the ingredients for a quality

formula as in NT, it should go towards making better

breastmilk first (for women who can make sufficient

volume, not talking about those who truly can't, which

while I think there are more of them than

organizations like LLL want to acknowledge, it's still

a relatively uncommon situation).

I think that mothers who don't get it or don't care

that what they put in their own bodies has a profound

effect on their babies are also not likely to feed

such a non-mainstream formula as those in NT nor to

consistently give their children anything other than a

typical American diet. This is based on people I

know. Some may profess wanting to give their kids a

" healthy " diet, while they themselves are stuffing

their faces with junk food, but in practice I don't

see their kids getting anything better, and I suspect

many times they just say they want to feed their kids

better than they eat themselves so they won't look

like bad parents. I just don't see how someone who

doesn't care enough about their own health to even

marginally improve their diet (and thereby set a good

example for their children) is likely to stick with a

" good " diet for their kids, even if they believe a

NT-type diet is good.

Aubin

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