Guest guest Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 The problem is that " AVB " doesn't exist. It is not a methodology or philosophy. It is simply " Good ABA " . What is " Good ABA " ? Good ABA addresses the needs of the client that are important to the community (family for younger kids and social groups for older kids for example). This is where a breakdown frequently occurs because " socially significant " behaviors are subjective. I personally believe that communication is the MOST important socially significant behavior to work on improving. Others believe that " attending " skills and " learning to learn " skills take priority. While I believe that these are also important skills, I don't put them before communication. The other components of " Good ABA " are single subject research and using that research to guide our treatment procedures. Most of the ABA research is done in a single subject design. This means that a very small number of individuals are studied and the results are compared against their own performance. So if we are testing to see if errorless learning produces learning faster than another procedure, we would compare subject A's learning with each procedure. We would NOT compare subject A to subject B. Although this type of research makes it difficult to generalize the results to a wide population, we essentially are running our own experiments when teaching our kids using ABA. This is why data is so important. We carefully implement teaching procedures, monitor progress, and change things if the student is not learning at an acceptable rate. The procedures that we use would ideally be based on the published research that has already been shown to be effective for at least some individuals. So if you take this view of ABA, you can see how ALL kids are eligible for ALL procedures that have been empirically validated by research. This is also why the bulk of the research is done on specific procedures and NOT on the larger " programs " such as " VB " or " Lovaas " . It may benefit you to look at the issue with your district narrowly. Do you have communication goals in the IEP? Are those goals being met? If they are not being met, what strategies can be implemented to improve the progress? Write the strategies and IEP goals in a way that the teacher can understand. Instead of working on " Manding " , work on requesting. Specify if the child will be requesting using words, signs, or pictures. Specify how often you expect to see it done and how the data will be collected by phrasing the goal in a way that includes that information. Example: ny will request 10 different items a day using sign language at a rate of 45 times per hour for two hours of the school day. Data will be collected for two hours per day and represent prompted vs. independent requests. You cannot win a " VB " vs. " ABA " or other similar debate. You can win on the specific merits of your child's progress or lack thereof. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. I'd be happy to help. Sincerely, e <http://www.autismbehaviorconsult.com/> Everyone Can <http://www.autismbehaviorconsut.com/> Learn e Quinby, M.Ed., BCBA Behavior Analyst 6165 Mountain Laurel Court <http://maps./py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap & addr=6165+Mountain+Laurel+Court & c sz=Pipersville%2C+PA+18947 & country=us> Pipersville, PA 18947 e@... www.autismbehaviorconsult.com <http://www.autismbehaviorconsult.com/> tel: fax: 215-766-3832 215-766-3832 <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Signature powered by Plaxo <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature like this? <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=8589960430 & v0=50595 & k0=1679972177> Add me to your address book... [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Hi, this my first post to this list. I posted a similar question on the Verbal Behavior list, so please ignore if you have seen this. I am trying to define what unique needs a child may have that would justify the use of a methodology based on the theory of Verbal Behavior versus more common ABA approaches which I believe, are essentially based on Skinner's " Behavior of Organisms " and some subsquent research and methodologies by various other persons (Lovaas, etc...). My desire for this information is quite specific. I have a child with autism who has a significant language deficit. My child had been in an eclectic school setting which used TEACCH, ABA (aka Autism Partnership variety), with some use of PECS as a language augmentative tool. My child's progress was poor, especially with respect to language. This is not a direct criticism of those methods in general, but for my child they did not work. We started a VB based ABA program and his language began improving at a much faster rate, whereas prior to this it was stagnant to regressing. I am discussing my child's future education with our school district and they believe that the eclectic program outlined above (with ABA procsribed by Autism Partnership) is appropriate and is comparable/equivalent to VB, which I believe it is not in my child's case. This creates a fundamental dilemna as I may be legally required to PROVE that my child's unique needs are being met by using the theory of VB whereas before they were not, hence the need to know what criteria must a child with autism have that indicates that VB is the proper approach. Proof by academic improvement may not be legally enough, though it seems it should be. I believe this goes back to various Supreme court rulings that require schools to provide a baseline " floor of opportunity " with " some educational benefit " and not the " best " education. Other state precedence permits the school districts to choose the methodology. I need to show that VB is the appropriate theory of education based on the uniqe needs of my specific child. So.... I need a list of criteria of unique needs that are only addressed when applying the theory of VB, and then I need a means to assess my child to see if my child meets any of theose criteria. Right now they way it works, the industry standards for assessment define a child has autism, then whatever methodology the school picks becomes the defacto FAPE. If that methodlogy has any scientific empirical backing, then it becomes legally valid even if it doesn't work for that particular child. I think that is wrong, but that is my understanding of IDEA after the various interpretations by courts. There have been several recent due process decisions against VB because of this lack of understanding of VB and the methodologies based upon VB. It is important for the public VB community that this criteria be established and that there is a means to assess a child to show that the child meets those criteria, otherwise precedent cases against VB will increase and it will be harder for it to be implemented in the public sector. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks! Mark Post message: Subscribe: -subscribe Unsubscribe: -unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 I am perplexed by the comments about no difference between ABA and ABA that uses the research on motivation and the analysis of verbal behavior, now being coined as AVB or VB. From everything I've studied and been taught thus far,all ABA does not use these two particular lines of research and it does make a difference in all programs I've seen between the uses of each. My personal observation as a parent is that a " good ABA " program makes the most progress when using these two lines of research. The kids really want to participate. " He who has a 'why' to live can bear with almost any 'how'. " Nietzsche ----Original Message Follows---- From: " e Quinby " <kristine@...> " 'alexiachrismark' " <alexiachrismark@...> CC: < >,<Verbalbehavior > Subject: RE: [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:14:10 -0500 The problem is that " AVB " doesn't exist. It is not a methodology or philosophy. It is simply " Good ABA " . What is " Good ABA " ? Good ABA addresses the needs of the client that are important to the community (family for younger kids and social groups for older kids for example). This is where a breakdown frequently occurs because " socially significant " behaviors are subjective. I personally believe that communication is the MOST important socially significant behavior to work on improving. Others believe that " attending " skills and " learning to learn " skills take priority. While I believe that these are also important skills, I don't put them before communication. The other components of " Good ABA " are single subject research and using that research to guide our treatment procedures. Most of the ABA research is done in a single subject design. This means that a very small number of individuals are studied and the results are compared against their own performance. So if we are testing to see if errorless learning produces learning faster than another procedure, we would compare subject A's learning with each procedure. We would NOT compare subject A to subject B. Although this type of research makes it difficult to generalize the results to a wide population, we essentially are running our own experiments when teaching our kids using ABA. This is why data is so important. We carefully implement teaching procedures, monitor progress, and change things if the student is not learning at an acceptable rate. The procedures that we use would ideally be based on the published research that has already been shown to be effective for at least some individuals. So if you take this view of ABA, you can see how ALL kids are eligible for ALL procedures that have been empirically validated by research. This is also why the bulk of the research is done on specific procedures and NOT on the larger " programs " such as " VB " or " Lovaas " . It may benefit you to look at the issue with your district narrowly. Do you have communication goals in the IEP? Are those goals being met? If they are not being met, what strategies can be implemented to improve the progress? Write the strategies and IEP goals in a way that the teacher can understand. Instead of working on " Manding " , work on requesting. Specify if the child will be requesting using words, signs, or pictures. Specify how often you expect to see it done and how the data will be collected by phrasing the goal in a way that includes that information. Example: ny will request 10 different items a day using sign language at a rate of 45 times per hour for two hours of the school day. Data will be collected for two hours per day and represent prompted vs. independent requests. You cannot win a " VB " vs. " ABA " or other similar debate. You can win on the specific merits of your child's progress or lack thereof. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. I'd be happy to help. Sincerely, e <http://www.autismbehaviorconsult.com/> Everyone Can <http://www.autismbehaviorconsut.com/> Learn e Quinby, M.Ed., BCBA Behavior Analyst 6165 Mountain Laurel Court <http://maps./py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap & addr=6165+Mountain+Laurel+Court & c sz=Pipersville%2C+PA+18947 & country=us> Pipersville, PA 18947 e@... www.autismbehaviorconsult.com <http://www.autismbehaviorconsult.com/> tel: fax: 215-766-3832 215-766-3832 <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Signature powered by Plaxo <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature like this? <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=8589960430 & v0=50595 & k0=1679972177> Add me to your address book... [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Hi, this my first post to this list. I posted a similar question on the Verbal Behavior list, so please ignore if you have seen this. I am trying to define what unique needs a child may have that would justify the use of a methodology based on the theory of Verbal Behavior versus more common ABA approaches which I believe, are essentially based on Skinner's " Behavior of Organisms " and some subsquent research and methodologies by various other persons (Lovaas, etc...). My desire for this information is quite specific. I have a child with autism who has a significant language deficit. My child had been in an eclectic school setting which used TEACCH, ABA (aka Autism Partnership variety), with some use of PECS as a language augmentative tool. My child's progress was poor, especially with respect to language. This is not a direct criticism of those methods in general, but for my child they did not work. We started a VB based ABA program and his language began improving at a much faster rate, whereas prior to this it was stagnant to regressing. I am discussing my child's future education with our school district and they believe that the eclectic program outlined above (with ABA procsribed by Autism Partnership) is appropriate and is comparable/equivalent to VB, which I believe it is not in my child's case. This creates a fundamental dilemna as I may be legally required to PROVE that my child's unique needs are being met by using the theory of VB whereas before they were not, hence the need to know what criteria must a child with autism have that indicates that VB is the proper approach. Proof by academic improvement may not be legally enough, though it seems it should be. I believe this goes back to various Supreme court rulings that require schools to provide a baseline " floor of opportunity " with " some educational benefit " and not the " best " education. Other state precedence permits the school districts to choose the methodology. I need to show that VB is the appropriate theory of education based on the uniqe needs of my specific child. So.... I need a list of criteria of unique needs that are only addressed when applying the theory of VB, and then I need a means to assess my child to see if my child meets any of theose criteria. Right now they way it works, the industry standards for assessment define a child has autism, then whatever methodology the school picks becomes the defacto FAPE. If that methodlogy has any scientific empirical backing, then it becomes legally valid even if it doesn't work for that particular child. I think that is wrong, but that is my understanding of IDEA after the various interpretations by courts. There have been several recent due process decisions against VB because of this lack of understanding of VB and the methodologies based upon VB. It is important for the public VB community that this criteria be established and that there is a means to assess a child to show that the child meets those criteria, otherwise precedent cases against VB will increase and it will be harder for it to be implemented in the public sector. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks! Mark Post message: Subscribe: -subscribe Unsubscribe: -unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I so agree. I think the multiple terminologies confuse and polarize professionals. In many cases, there are no guidelines for professionals to apply the good research and evidence-based findings to a clinical setting. In developing a program, parents are charged with the task of ensuring that their child's learning needs are addressed in a way that motivates and reinforces him or her. Talking about VB puts a priority in your programming around building communication and doesn't reflect some stream of ABA. Dina [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Hi, this my first post to this list. I posted a similar question on the Verbal Behavior list, so please ignore if you have seen this. I am trying to define what unique needs a child may have that would justify the use of a methodology based on the theory of Verbal Behavior versus more common ABA approaches which I believe, are essentially based on Skinner's " Behavior of Organisms " and some subsquent research and methodologies by various other persons (Lovaas, etc...). My desire for this information is quite specific. I have a child with autism who has a significant language deficit. My child had been in an eclectic school setting which used TEACCH, ABA (aka Autism Partnership variety), with some use of PECS as a language augmentative tool. My child's progress was poor, especially with respect to language. This is not a direct criticism of those methods in general, but for my child they did not work. We started a VB based ABA program and his language began improving at a much faster rate, whereas prior to this it was stagnant to regressing. I am discussing my child's future education with our school district and they believe that the eclectic program outlined above (with ABA procsribed by Autism Partnership) is appropriate and is comparable/equivalent to VB, which I believe it is not in my child's case. This creates a fundamental dilemna as I may be legally required to PROVE that my child's unique needs are being met by using the theory of VB whereas before they were not, hence the need to know what criteria must a child with autism have that indicates that VB is the proper approach. Proof by academic improvement may not be legally enough, though it seems it should be. I believe this goes back to various Supreme court rulings that require schools to provide a baseline " floor of opportunity " with " some educational benefit " and not the " best " education. Other state precedence permits the school districts to choose the methodology. I need to show that VB is the appropriate theory of education based on the uniqe needs of my specific child. So.... I need a list of criteria of unique needs that are only addressed when applying the theory of VB, and then I need a means to assess my child to see if my child meets any of theose criteria. Right now they way it works, the industry standards for assessment define a child has autism, then whatever methodology the school picks becomes the defacto FAPE. If that methodlogy has any scientific empirical backing, then it becomes legally valid even if it doesn't work for that particular child. I think that is wrong, but that is my understanding of IDEA after the various interpretations by courts. There have been several recent due process decisions against VB because of this lack of understanding of VB and the methodologies based upon VB. It is important for the public VB community that this criteria be established and that there is a means to assess a child to show that the child meets those criteria, otherwise precedent cases against VB will increase and it will be harder for it to be implemented in the public sector. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks! Mark Post message: Subscribe: -subscribe Unsubscribe: -unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 As a well informed parent of a child who has been receiving ABA and VB services for nearly five years now, I think that we are confusing the person who made the original request. Here is my short and sweet response. Yes, ABA and VB can look similar in that they are both use reinforcers and such to teach the desired lessons, and they both break down the acquisition of skills into what I call 'bite-size' pieces. In fact, I view VB as a form of ABA. The difference I have observed between VB, particularly when guided by ABLLS, and " more common ABA approaches " is in the skills that are taught and in the sequence in which they are presented. With either of these two broadly categorized approaches, you'll see better results with a good team of consultants and therapists than with a bad one, of course. For my son, a switch from " traditional " ABA to a VB approach has led to an accelerated increase in receptive and expressive language. Hope this helps, Max S Oliver <sunah98@...> wrote: I am perplexed by the comments about no difference between ABA and ABA that uses the research on motivation and the analysis of verbal behavior, now being coined as AVB or VB. From everything I've studied and been taught thus far,all ABA does not use these two particular lines of research and it does make a difference in all programs I've seen between the uses of each. My personal observation as a parent is that a " good ABA " program makes the most progress when using these two lines of research. The kids really want to participate. " He who has a 'why' to live can bear with almost any 'how'. " Nietzsche ----Original Message Follows---- From: " e Quinby " " 'alexiachrismark' " CC: , Subject: RE: [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:14:10 -0500 The problem is that " AVB " doesn't exist. It is not a methodology or philosophy. It is simply " Good ABA " . What is " Good ABA " ? Good ABA addresses the needs of the client that are important to the community (family for younger kids and social groups for older kids for example). This is where a breakdown frequently occurs because " socially significant " behaviors are subjective. I personally believe that communication is the MOST important socially significant behavior to work on improving. Others believe that " attending " skills and " learning to learn " skills take priority. While I believe that these are also important skills, I don't put them before communication. The other components of " Good ABA " are single subject research and using that research to guide our treatment procedures. Most of the ABA research is done in a single subject design. This means that a very small number of individuals are studied and the results are compared against their own performance. So if we are testing to see if errorless learning produces learning faster than another procedure, we would compare subject A's learning with each procedure. We would NOT compare subject A to subject B. Although this type of research makes it difficult to generalize the results to a wide population, we essentially are running our own experiments when teaching our kids using ABA. This is why data is so important. We carefully implement teaching procedures, monitor progress, and change things if the student is not learning at an acceptable rate. The procedures that we use would ideally be based on the published research that has already been shown to be effective for at least some individuals. So if you take this view of ABA, you can see how ALL kids are eligible for ALL procedures that have been empirically validated by research. This is also why the bulk of the research is done on specific procedures and NOT on the larger " programs " such as " VB " or " Lovaas " . It may benefit you to look at the issue with your district narrowly. Do you have communication goals in the IEP? Are those goals being met? If they are not being met, what strategies can be implemented to improve the progress? Write the strategies and IEP goals in a way that the teacher can understand. Instead of working on " Manding " , work on requesting. Specify if the child will be requesting using words, signs, or pictures. Specify how often you expect to see it done and how the data will be collected by phrasing the goal in a way that includes that information. Example: ny will request 10 different items a day using sign language at a rate of 45 times per hour for two hours of the school day. Data will be collected for two hours per day and represent prompted vs. independent requests. You cannot win a " VB " vs. " ABA " or other similar debate. You can win on the specific merits of your child's progress or lack thereof. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. I'd be happy to help. Sincerely, e Everyone Can Learn e Quinby, M.Ed., BCBA Behavior Analyst 6165 Mountain Laurel Court sz=Pipersville%2C+PA+18947 & country=us> Pipersville, PA 18947 e@... www.autismbehaviorconsult.com tel: fax: 215-766-3832 215-766-3832 Signature powered by Plaxo Want a signature like this? Add me to your address book... [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Hi, this my first post to this list. I posted a similar question on the Verbal Behavior list, so please ignore if you have seen this. I am trying to define what unique needs a child may have that would justify the use of a methodology based on the theory of Verbal Behavior versus more common ABA approaches which I believe, are essentially based on Skinner's " Behavior of Organisms " and some subsquent research and methodologies by various other persons (Lovaas, etc...). My desire for this information is quite specific. I have a child with autism who has a significant language deficit. My child had been in an eclectic school setting which used TEACCH, ABA (aka Autism Partnership variety), with some use of PECS as a language augmentative tool. My child's progress was poor, especially with respect to language. This is not a direct criticism of those methods in general, but for my child they did not work. We started a VB based ABA program and his language began improving at a much faster rate, whereas prior to this it was stagnant to regressing. I am discussing my child's future education with our school district and they believe that the eclectic program outlined above (with ABA procsribed by Autism Partnership) is appropriate and is comparable/equivalent to VB, which I believe it is not in my child's case. This creates a fundamental dilemna as I may be legally required to PROVE that my child's unique needs are being met by using the theory of VB whereas before they were not, hence the need to know what criteria must a child with autism have that indicates that VB is the proper approach. Proof by academic improvement may not be legally enough, though it seems it should be. I believe this goes back to various Supreme court rulings that require schools to provide a baseline " floor of opportunity " with " some educational benefit " and not the " best " education. Other state precedence permits the school districts to choose the methodology. I need to show that VB is the appropriate theory of education based on the uniqe needs of my specific child. So.... I need a list of criteria of unique needs that are only addressed when applying the theory of VB, and then I need a means to assess my child to see if my child meets any of theose criteria. Right now they way it works, the industry standards for assessment define a child has autism, then whatever methodology the school picks becomes the defacto FAPE. If that methodlogy has any scientific empirical backing, then it becomes legally valid even if it doesn't work for that particular child. I think that is wrong, but that is my understanding of IDEA after the various interpretations by courts. There have been several recent due process decisions against VB because of this lack of understanding of VB and the methodologies based upon VB. It is important for the public VB community that this criteria be established and that there is a means to assess a child to show that the child meets those criteria, otherwise precedent cases against VB will increase and it will be harder for it to be implemented in the public sector. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks! Mark Post message: Subscribe: -subscribe Unsubscribe: -unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I'm glad in your closing sentence you stated that you switched from a " traditional " ABA program (meaning one that doesn't use the lines of research on motivation and verbal behavior) and a verbal behavior approach. You're right it can be easy to get confused. " AVB " or " VB " is in fact ABA. They aren't separate. I don't know about anyone else, but I am appreciative to have an online community to learn so much since my state is struggling to grasp ABA using VB. " He who has a 'why' to live can bear with almost any 'how'. " Nietzsche ----Original Message Follows---- From: Max Salinas <msalinas@...> Subject: RE: [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:07:50 -0800 (PST) As a well informed parent of a child who has been receiving ABA and VB services for nearly five years now, I think that we are confusing the person who made the original request. Here is my short and sweet response. Yes, ABA and VB can look similar in that they are both use reinforcers and such to teach the desired lessons, and they both break down the acquisition of skills into what I call 'bite-size' pieces. In fact, I view VB as a form of ABA. The difference I have observed between VB, particularly when guided by ABLLS, and " more common ABA approaches " is in the skills that are taught and in the sequence in which they are presented. With either of these two broadly categorized approaches, you'll see better results with a good team of consultants and therapists than with a bad one, of course. For my son, a switch from " traditional " ABA to a VB approach has led to an accelerated increase in receptive and expressive language. Hope this helps, Max S Oliver <sunah98@...> wrote: I am perplexed by the comments about no difference between ABA and ABA that uses the research on motivation and the analysis of verbal behavior, now being coined as AVB or VB. From everything I've studied and been taught thus far,all ABA does not use these two particular lines of research and it does make a difference in all programs I've seen between the uses of each. My personal observation as a parent is that a " good ABA " program makes the most progress when using these two lines of research. The kids really want to participate. " He who has a 'why' to live can bear with almost any 'how'. " Nietzsche ----Original Message Follows---- From: " e Quinby " " 'alexiachrismark' " CC: , Subject: RE: [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:14:10 -0500 The problem is that " AVB " doesn't exist. It is not a methodology or philosophy. It is simply " Good ABA " . What is " Good ABA " ? Good ABA addresses the needs of the client that are important to the community (family for younger kids and social groups for older kids for example). This is where a breakdown frequently occurs because " socially significant " behaviors are subjective. I personally believe that communication is the MOST important socially significant behavior to work on improving. Others believe that " attending " skills and " learning to learn " skills take priority. While I believe that these are also important skills, I don't put them before communication. The other components of " Good ABA " are single subject research and using that research to guide our treatment procedures. Most of the ABA research is done in a single subject design. This means that a very small number of individuals are studied and the results are compared against their own performance. So if we are testing to see if errorless learning produces learning faster than another procedure, we would compare subject A's learning with each procedure. We would NOT compare subject A to subject B. Although this type of research makes it difficult to generalize the results to a wide population, we essentially are running our own experiments when teaching our kids using ABA. This is why data is so important. We carefully implement teaching procedures, monitor progress, and change things if the student is not learning at an acceptable rate. The procedures that we use would ideally be based on the published research that has already been shown to be effective for at least some individuals. So if you take this view of ABA, you can see how ALL kids are eligible for ALL procedures that have been empirically validated by research. This is also why the bulk of the research is done on specific procedures and NOT on the larger " programs " such as " VB " or " Lovaas " . It may benefit you to look at the issue with your district narrowly. Do you have communication goals in the IEP? Are those goals being met? If they are not being met, what strategies can be implemented to improve the progress? Write the strategies and IEP goals in a way that the teacher can understand. Instead of working on " Manding " , work on requesting. Specify if the child will be requesting using words, signs, or pictures. Specify how often you expect to see it done and how the data will be collected by phrasing the goal in a way that includes that information. Example: ny will request 10 different items a day using sign language at a rate of 45 times per hour for two hours of the school day. Data will be collected for two hours per day and represent prompted vs. independent requests. You cannot win a " VB " vs. " ABA " or other similar debate. You can win on the specific merits of your child's progress or lack thereof. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. I'd be happy to help. Sincerely, e Everyone Can Learn e Quinby, M.Ed., BCBA Behavior Analyst 6165 Mountain Laurel Court sz=Pipersville%2C+PA+18947 & country=us> Pipersville, PA 18947 e@... www.autismbehaviorconsult.com tel: fax: 215-766-3832 215-766-3832 Signature powered by Plaxo Want a signature like this? Add me to your address book... [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Hi, this my first post to this list. I posted a similar question on the Verbal Behavior list, so please ignore if you have seen this. I am trying to define what unique needs a child may have that would justify the use of a methodology based on the theory of Verbal Behavior versus more common ABA approaches which I believe, are essentially based on Skinner's " Behavior of Organisms " and some subsquent research and methodologies by various other persons (Lovaas, etc...). My desire for this information is quite specific. I have a child with autism who has a significant language deficit. My child had been in an eclectic school setting which used TEACCH, ABA (aka Autism Partnership variety), with some use of PECS as a language augmentative tool. My child's progress was poor, especially with respect to language. This is not a direct criticism of those methods in general, but for my child they did not work. We started a VB based ABA program and his language began improving at a much faster rate, whereas prior to this it was stagnant to regressing. I am discussing my child's future education with our school district and they believe that the eclectic program outlined above (with ABA procsribed by Autism Partnership) is appropriate and is comparable/equivalent to VB, which I believe it is not in my child's case. This creates a fundamental dilemna as I may be legally required to PROVE that my child's unique needs are being met by using the theory of VB whereas before they were not, hence the need to know what criteria must a child with autism have that indicates that VB is the proper approach. Proof by academic improvement may not be legally enough, though it seems it should be. I believe this goes back to various Supreme court rulings that require schools to provide a baseline " floor of opportunity " with " some educational benefit " and not the " best " education. Other state precedence permits the school districts to choose the methodology. I need to show that VB is the appropriate theory of education based on the uniqe needs of my specific child. So.... I need a list of criteria of unique needs that are only addressed when applying the theory of VB, and then I need a means to assess my child to see if my child meets any of theose criteria. Right now they way it works, the industry standards for assessment define a child has autism, then whatever methodology the school picks becomes the defacto FAPE. If that methodlogy has any scientific empirical backing, then it becomes legally valid even if it doesn't work for that particular child. I think that is wrong, but that is my understanding of IDEA after the various interpretations by courts. There have been several recent due process decisions against VB because of this lack of understanding of VB and the methodologies based upon VB. It is important for the public VB community that this criteria be established and that there is a means to assess a child to show that the child meets those criteria, otherwise precedent cases against VB will increase and it will be harder for it to be implemented in the public sector. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks! Mark Post message: Subscribe: -subscribe Unsubscribe: -unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 , I agree with your comments. I don't know what you are referring to in your first sentence about no difference between ABA and ABA that uses research on motivation and VB. I do not believe that I stated anything like that in my email. I was simply trying to make a case for the individual to be able to better argue for services for their child. e <http://www.autismbehaviorconsult.com/> Everyone Can <http://www.autismbehaviorconsut.com/> Learn e Quinby, M.Ed., BCBA Behavior Analyst 6165 Mountain Laurel Court <http://maps./py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap & addr=6165+Mountain+Laurel+Court & c sz=Pipersville%2C+PA+18947 & country=us> Pipersville, PA 18947 e@... www.autismbehaviorconsult.com <http://www.autismbehaviorconsult.com/> tel: fax: 215-766-3832 215-766-3832 <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Signature powered by Plaxo <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature like this? <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=8589960430 & v0=50595 & k0=1679972177> Add me to your address book... [ ] Unique Needs for AVB Hi, this my first post to this list. I posted a similar question on the Verbal Behavior list, so please ignore if you have seen this. I am trying to define what unique needs a child may have that would justify the use of a methodology based on the theory of Verbal Behavior versus more common ABA approaches which I believe, are essentially based on Skinner's " Behavior of Organisms " and some subsquent research and methodologies by various other persons (Lovaas, etc...). My desire for this information is quite specific. I have a child with autism who has a significant language deficit. My child had been in an eclectic school setting which used TEACCH, ABA (aka Autism Partnership variety), with some use of PECS as a language augmentative tool. My child's progress was poor, especially with respect to language. This is not a direct criticism of those methods in general, but for my child they did not work. We started a VB based ABA program and his language began improving at a much faster rate, whereas prior to this it was stagnant to regressing. I am discussing my child's future education with our school district and they believe that the eclectic program outlined above (with ABA procsribed by Autism Partnership) is appropriate and is comparable/equivalent to VB, which I believe it is not in my child's case. This creates a fundamental dilemna as I may be legally required to PROVE that my child's unique needs are being met by using the theory of VB whereas before they were not, hence the need to know what criteria must a child with autism have that indicates that VB is the proper approach. Proof by academic improvement may not be legally enough, though it seems it should be. I believe this goes back to various Supreme court rulings that require schools to provide a baseline " floor of opportunity " with " some educational benefit " and not the " best " education. Other state precedence permits the school districts to choose the methodology. I need to show that VB is the appropriate theory of education based on the uniqe needs of my specific child. So.... I need a list of criteria of unique needs that are only addressed when applying the theory of VB, and then I need a means to assess my child to see if my child meets any of theose criteria. Right now they way it works, the industry standards for assessment define a child has autism, then whatever methodology the school picks becomes the defacto FAPE. If that methodlogy has any scientific empirical backing, then it becomes legally valid even if it doesn't work for that particular child. I think that is wrong, but that is my understanding of IDEA after the various interpretations by courts. There have been several recent due process decisions against VB because of this lack of understanding of VB and the methodologies based upon VB. It is important for the public VB community that this criteria be established and that there is a means to assess a child to show that the child meets those criteria, otherwise precedent cases against VB will increase and it will be harder for it to be implemented in the public sector. Any ideas are welcome! Thanks! Mark Post message: Subscribe: -subscribe Unsubscribe: -unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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