Re: Raun K. Kaufman et.al.

[Guest guest]

HI Camille,

Some interesting points raised here:

>

>I wanted to add a thought about " acting NT " . Yes it's a good thing

>to do sometimes, it can help, if you can do it, to get through

>certain necessary transactions. I can get better service by acting

>NT than by being really myself, sometimes, maybe most of the time.

>

Same here especially when my family says that I have acted normal and

also going to party's. Although I avoid them now as my family is

pretty large and invites lots of groups of friends etc. So I get

major meltdowns unless there is an escape route such as Children in

which case I play games with them or a separate room with less people

in.

>I think that is the best that any parent can hope for in trying to

>train an autistic child to cope with the world.

>

I agree. If I ever have children I would hope that I could learn

from my own past mistakes and hard lessons enough to teach our

children to interact with NTs in this world. That to me is a far

better path than just being oneself. Being oneself can make you look

abnormal and lead to lots of misery IMO.

>However, this skill comes at a cost, and it's not just the cost of

>energy that Jane pointed out. That's a big thing. Also we may have

>health destroying stress hormones coursing through our veins all the

>while we are " chit chatting " in order to fit in (with the constant

>background chatter in my head, " don't say that, don't say this, you

>can't do that, stand like this, now nod your head, use this tone of

>voice, not too loud, now louder, now smile, oh! now apologize...)

Yes and in my case I have to have a drink or two to calm my nerves

before going to any family functions. Some times I have way too much

and end up just making a fool out of myself. But at least they put

that down to the drink and not my odd behaviour. Its easy to explain

away behaviour if you are drunk. Not so easy if you are stone cold

sobour. My family is very NT. My Cousins all have done something in

their lives. I have Lawyers, Teachers, Accountants etc.... Its

hard as I am the oldest Cousin living up to these great achievers. I

mean I had it a lot harder than them. None of them were born with

the same condition as me and they all have lead active social lives.

None have really understood me. I suspect that they don't want to

either. I have gotten to the point when I just do not care when my

family thinks. loves me for who I am and that is all that

matters.

I missed my Moms 40th (Rubey) Wedding Anniversary and have not heard

the last of it. Mom told me that she was asked constantly where I

was. But you know I do not care. As far as I am concerned that

party was a few days before their actual Anniversary as well. So

logically I did not miss it and I did spend the day with them.

>But the main point is that you have to surrender your own identity

>in

>order to act NT. African American's don't like having to surrender

>their partial African identity in order to pass for white (in the

>case of those who can), or having to " act authentically black " in

>order to be accepted in the " black community " , my dog would be very

>stressed if I was constantly forcing her to be a cat....

Too right and I have outgrown a lot of my traits. For example I do

not hand flap like I used to. I do simulate eye contact and I do

talk about a wide range of subject and listen to others. I also do

not obsess as much about things. I used to hoard loads of junk and

now I have thrown out a lot that I do not need. I feel better for

this. I call it Life Laudery and it works quite well. Getting rid

of the old in life and starts afresh.

>Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, supress our stims, act

>social,

>for example), but it can create a sort of " split personality " , a

>sort

>of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is or BE who he is

>and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

>

Yes and maybe one day they will accept me for the way I am. But

until then I have to put on my NT Mask in order to fit in with my

family.

Steve

My Aspergers Groups

http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite

http://clix.to/chemer

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Life laundry is a neat idea. I think we do better with less junk,

emotional and material.

I used to hate my socialite cousins, but some of them have turned out

to have their father's bipolar issues and they make me look really

normal and successful. It's sad for them, but one thing, the world

tends to understand the ramifications of a " bipolar " diagnosis.

My ex " self medicates " frequently with marijuana and alcohol. He

also tries to spend time alone - in the woods, but he's an outgoing

Aspie, he likes to talk to people when he's out and about. He looks

odd doing it, but he enjoys chatting, " Hi, how are you? " " Nice

day " . He also has a habit of becoming like the people he is with.

Moreso than I do. His voice changes and his " accent " changes. I

don't know how stressful longer conversations are for him, sometimes

it is stressful, I think.

Camille

> HI Camille,

>

> Some interesting points raised here:

> >

> >I wanted to add a thought about " acting NT " . Yes it's a good thing

> >to do sometimes, it can help, if you can do it, to get through

> >certain necessary transactions. I can get better service by acting

> >NT than by being really myself, sometimes, maybe most of the time.

> >

>

> Same here especially when my family says that I have acted normal

and

> also going to party's. Although I avoid them now as my family is

> pretty large and invites lots of groups of friends etc. So I get

> major meltdowns unless there is an escape route such as Children

in

> which case I play games with them or a separate room with less

people

> in.

>

> >I think that is the best that any parent can hope for in trying to

> >train an autistic child to cope with the world.

> >

>

> I agree. If I ever have children I would hope that I could learn

> from my own past mistakes and hard lessons enough to teach our

> children to interact with NTs in this world. That to me is a far

> better path than just being oneself. Being oneself can make you

look

> abnormal and lead to lots of misery IMO.

>

> >However, this skill comes at a cost, and it's not just the cost of

> >energy that Jane pointed out. That's a big thing. Also we may

have

> >health destroying stress hormones coursing through our veins all

the

> >while we are " chit chatting " in order to fit in (with the constant

> >background chatter in my head, " don't say that, don't say this, you

> >can't do that, stand like this, now nod your head, use this tone of

> >voice, not too loud, now louder, now smile, oh! now apologize...)

>

> Yes and in my case I have to have a drink or two to calm my nerves

> before going to any family functions. Some times I have way too

much

> and end up just making a fool out of myself. But at least they put

> that down to the drink and not my odd behaviour. Its easy to

explain

> away behaviour if you are drunk. Not so easy if you are stone cold

> sobour. My family is very NT. My Cousins all have done something

in

> their lives. I have Lawyers, Teachers, Accountants etc.... Its

> hard as I am the oldest Cousin living up to these great achievers.

I

> mean I had it a lot harder than them. None of them were born with

> the same condition as me and they all have lead active social

lives.

> None have really understood me. I suspect that they don't want to

> either. I have gotten to the point when I just do not care when my

> family thinks. loves me for who I am and that is all that

> matters.

>

> I missed my Moms 40th (Rubey) Wedding Anniversary and have not

heard

> the last of it. Mom told me that she was asked constantly where I

> was. But you know I do not care. As far as I am concerned that

> party was a few days before their actual Anniversary as well. So

> logically I did not miss it and I did spend the day with them.

>

> >But the main point is that you have to surrender your own identity

> >in

> >order to act NT. African American's don't like having to

surrender

> >their partial African identity in order to pass for white (in the

> >case of those who can), or having to " act authentically black " in

> >order to be accepted in the " black community " , my dog would be very

> >stressed if I was constantly forcing her to be a cat....

>

> Too right and I have outgrown a lot of my traits. For example I do

> not hand flap like I used to. I do simulate eye contact and I do

> talk about a wide range of subject and listen to others. I also do

> not obsess as much about things. I used to hoard loads of junk and

> now I have thrown out a lot that I do not need. I feel better for

> this. I call it Life Laudery and it works quite well. Getting rid

> of the old in life and starts afresh.

>

> >Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, supress our stims, act

> >social,

> >for example), but it can create a sort of " split personality " , a

> >sort

> >of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is or BE who he

is

> >and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

> >

>

> Yes and maybe one day they will accept me for the way I am. But

> until then I have to put on my NT Mask in order to fit in with my

> family.

>

> Steve

>

> My Aspergers Groups

>

> http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite

> http://clix.to/chemer

[Guest guest]

>Hi,

>I wanted to add a thought about " acting NT " . Yes it's a good thing

>to do sometimes, it can help, if you can do it, to get through

>certain necessary transactions. I can get better service by acting

>NT than by being really myself, sometimes, maybe most of the time.

Yep. And it can help keep kids from being bullied.

>I think that is the best that any parent can hope for in trying to

>train an autistic child to cope with the world.

That depends. My son was diagnosed with AS at age three, and we went

through a lot of very intense sensory integration OT (including the

Wilbarger brushing protocol) with him. Many of his sensory issues were

completely resolved, and now he can basically pass for NT without having to

act.

>However, this skill comes at a cost, and it's not just the cost of

>energy that Jane pointed out. That's a big thing. Also we may have

>health destroying stress hormones coursing through our veins all the

>while we are " chit chatting " in order to fit in (with the constant

>background chatter in my head, " don't say that, don't say this, you

>can't do that, stand like this, now nod your head, use this tone of

>voice, not too loud, now louder, now smile, oh! now apologize...)

>But the main point is that you have to surrender your own identity in

>order to act NT. African American's don't like having to surrender

>their partial African identity in order to pass for white (in the

>case of those who can), or having to " act authentically black " in

>order to be accepted in the " black community " , my dog would be very

>stressed if I was constantly forcing her to be a cat....

Hee hee...my dog (a westie) joined our household at a young, very

impressionable age, and we already had a cat. My dog learned a lot of cat

things. I find her perched on top of things all the time...just like a cat.

She also fights like a cat when she's cornered (by the cat when they are

playing)...she lays down on her back and waves her short little legs around

in the air.

>Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, supress our stims, act social,

>for example), but it can create a sort of " split personality " , a sort

>of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is or BE who he is

>and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

I cal the other side of my personality " " ...like Couric. I

decided a few years ago that she has a perfect public personality, so when

I'm in public I always think, " What would do? "

>That's crazy making.

It's definitely a strain, and sometimes my I get so far into my that I

end up doing stupid things like volunteering to be the soccer team parent,

or making lunch dates with the new ladies in the neighborhood.

>Camille

>

> >From: " jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] " <jypsy@i...>

> >

> >Interesting how people equate becoming able to interact with the

world

> on

> >NT-ish terms with being " cured " of autism. When my son was 3, he

> started

> to

> >disappear behind that autism wall. I already knew that he had

sensory

> >integration dysfunction (that was our dx starting place), and with

> intensive

> >OT and me helping him to " learn " how to process sensory

information he

> >became able to interact " normally " (for the most part) with the

outside

> >world. I suppose that some people would consider him to

be " cured. "

> >

> >

>

>

> Autism and the Myth of False Hope

> Written by Raun K. Kaufman

>

>

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Autism_and_the_Myth_of_False_Hope.

ht

> m

>

> Autism is incurable, right? People say it's a lifelong condition. An

> irreversible brain disorder. A tragedy. According to many, anyone

who

> says

> otherwise is promoting " false hope. " There's just one problem with

this

> point of view: it's not true. Autism does not have to be a life

> sentence.

> And there is no such thing as " false hope. "

>

> How do I know? My entire life is the product of what many

call " false

> hope. " At 18 months old, I was diagnosed with autism. In fact, my

case

> was

> considered severe, with no speech and a tested I.Q. of less than

30. I

> would spend my days endlessly engaged in repetitive behaviors such

as

> spinning plates, rocking, and flapping my hands in front of my

face. I

> never looked at others nor did I give the slightest response to the

> calls

> and requests of the people around me. I was " in my own world. "

>

> As I'm sure you can imagine, my parents were told many things about

what

> my

> future would hold. No change was to be expected in my development. I

> would

> never speak, never have friends, never go to school, never learn to

> communicate with others in any meaningful way. The professionals

> recommended eventual institutionalization.

>

> My parents, however, decided to make a complete departure from

> traditional

> methods of " treatment. " They designed and implemented an innovative

and

> groundbreaking program that was both home-based and child-centered:

The

> Son-Rise Program®.

>

> After working with me for over three years, my parents achieved

what the

> experts had deemed " impossible " : my complete recovery from autism

with

> no

> trace of my former condition. After living a normal childhood, then

> earning

> a degree in Biomedical Ethics from Brown University, I went on to

direct

> an

> educational center for school-aged children. I now lecture

> internationally,

> as well as being an author, teacher, and the Director of Global

Outreach

> for the Autism Treatment Center of AmericaT.

>

> Unfortunately, many parents today are still not given full

information

> about all of theoptions available to them. However, I would want

parents

> to

> know that they do not have to face the lack of support that my

parents

> faced, nor do they have to settle for a prognosis of hopelessness.

After

> my

> recovery, my father, Barry Neil Kaufman, wrote a book relating our

story

> entitled Son-Rise: The Miracle Continues (later the subject of an

NBC

> television movie). Then, in 1983, my parents founded what is now

known

> as

> The Autism Treatment Center of America, a division of The Option

> Institute,

> a non-profit, charitable organization, located in Sheffield,

> Massachusetts.

> Our center is dedicated to helping parents and professionals caring

for

> children with autism, PDD, autism spectrum disorders, and other

related

> developmental challenges. We teach a system of treatment and

education

> designed to help families and caregivers enable their children to

> dramatically improve in all areas of learning, development,

> communication,

> and skill acquisition. Having worked with thousands of people

worldwide,

> we

> continue to achieve results that have forever changed the face of

autism

> and other developmental disorders.

>

> Currently, we offer an introductory program called The Son-Rise

Program

> Start-Up, which provides parents and professionals with all of the

tools

> they need to design, implement, and maintain a child-centered Son-

Rise

> Program. This training course is offered several times a year on our

> campus

> in Massachusetts, and we will also be sending a team of teachers to

> London

> from 13 to 17 January 2002, to teach the full Start-Up program at

that

> time..

>

> The foundation of the program rests upon this idea: the children

show us

> the way in, and then we show them the way out. In this way, we

establish

> a

> mutual connection and relationship, which is the platform for all

> education

> and growth. Then, we can teach our children everything we want them

to

> learn with exponentially greater success, speed, and ease.

>

> One specific technique derived from this principle is joining. This

> means

> that when a child is doing a particular repetitive, exclusive

behavior

> (i.e. stacking blocks, flapping hands, etc.), we do not try to stop

the

> child from doing this. On the contrary, we do this activity with

him! We

> find that children consistently look at and interact more with

people

> when

> they are sincerely joined in their repetitive activities. This

unlocks

> the

> door to the child's world.

>

> Another key technique is to facilitate skill acquisition by

capitalizing

> on

> each child's own motivation. Since, for these children, traditional

> learning modalities will rarely be appealing, we customize the

> presentation

> of curriculum to match the child's highest areas of motivation. This

> way,

> we use the particular skills and interests our child already has to

> maximize learning globally.

>

> I could discuss other principles and strategies, but, instead, I

will

> end

> where I began: with one all-important note. People have accused us

of

> advocating " false hope, " asserting that we cannot guarantee that all

> children will turn out like me. This is true. No one can guarantee

that.

> But does this mean that parents should be discouraged from hoping

for

> their

> children? Does that mean that all of these children should be given

life

> sentences? Who decided that a life sentence was better than an open

door

> and an outstretched hand?

>

> The very idea of " false hope " means that there are times when

hoping can

> be

> bad, wrong, or inappropriate. Because I have seen over and over

again,

> in

> my life and in the lives of countless others, that hoping only

helps and

> never hurts, I do not believe that hope can ever be " false. " When I

was

> diagnosed with severe autism, my parents decided to see

possibilities

> where

> others saw none, and it was this perspective that enabled my

complete

> recovery. Yes, it is true that we cannot know in advance what any

given

> child will accomplish. But we must not decide in advance all of the

> things

> a child will never achieve. You should never have to apologize for

> giving

> your child a chance. Hope leads to action, and without action, none

of

> these children can be helped.

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> Autism Spectrum Resources

> www.PlanetAutism.com

> jypsy@i...

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> HI Camille,

>

> Some interesting points raised here:

>

> >I think that is the best that any parent can hope for in trying to

> >train an autistic child to cope with the world.

> >

>

> I agree. If I ever have children I would hope that I could learn

> from my own past mistakes and hard lessons enough to teach our

> children to interact with NTs in this world. That to me is a far

> better path than just being oneself. Being oneself can make you look

> abnormal and lead to lots of misery IMO.

That's what I have done with my son. I've been teaching him the things I've

learned about social behavior during the past 36 years, so now, at 6 years

old, he's much more savvy than I was even up into my early 20s.

Also, I don't tell my kids to do things without telling them why. I want

them to be able to think logically, and explaining reasons is part of that.

The only exception is in safety-related circumstances, and I will always

explain those later.

> Yes and maybe one day they will accept me for the way I am. But

> until then I have to put on my NT Mask in order to fit in with my

> family.

I have very little patience with a lot of my mom's family. They are very

emotional creatures. My dad's family is much easier to be with. But I

definitely fit in best with my husband's family. I don't have to wear my NT

mask when I'm around them. I just use my manners.

>

> Steve

>

> My Aspergers Groups

>

> http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite

> http://clix.to/chemer

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi,

>

> My ex " self medicates " frequently with marijuana and alcohol. He

> also tries to spend time alone - in the woods, but he's an outgoing

> Aspie, he likes to talk to people when he's out and about. He looks

> odd doing it, but he enjoys chatting, " Hi, how are you? " " Nice

> day " . He also has a habit of becoming like the people he is with.

> Moreso than I do. His voice changes and his " accent " changes. I

> don't know how stressful longer conversations are for him, sometimes

> it is stressful, I think.

Hmmm...your ex sounds kind of like me, except that I'm allergic to

marijuana, and my standard dose of alcohol is usually only a drink or two.

But I'm also a chatty aspie (that would be an interesting doll...Chatty

Aspie). I take on the mannerisms of the people I'm with, and definitely

mirror them, but I'm not so good at accents. When I talk to someone with a

southern accent I have to almost forcibly keep myself from speaking with an

accent, but that's really the only one that I can fall into easily. Most of

the time being around someone with an accent just makes me very aware of

what my voice sounds like...kind of like listening to myself on a tape

recorder.

The longer conversations are definitely more stressful for me unless I'm in

a really chatty state. I can't even count the number of times that I've

started to talk to someone, expecting it to only be a quick exchange, and

had it turn into a marathon chat. Ugh!

>

> Camille

>

>

>

>

> > HI Camille,

> >

> > Some interesting points raised here:

> > >

> > >I wanted to add a thought about " acting NT " . Yes it's a good thing

> > >to do sometimes, it can help, if you can do it, to get through

> > >certain necessary transactions. I can get better service by acting

> > >NT than by being really myself, sometimes, maybe most of the time.

> > >

> >

> > Same here especially when my family says that I have acted normal

> and

> > also going to party's. Although I avoid them now as my family is

> > pretty large and invites lots of groups of friends etc. So I get

> > major meltdowns unless there is an escape route such as Children

> in

> > which case I play games with them or a separate room with less

> people

> > in.

> >

> > >I think that is the best that any parent can hope for in trying to

> > >train an autistic child to cope with the world.

> > >

> >

> > I agree. If I ever have children I would hope that I could learn

> > from my own past mistakes and hard lessons enough to teach our

> > children to interact with NTs in this world. That to me is a far

> > better path than just being oneself. Being oneself can make you

> look

> > abnormal and lead to lots of misery IMO.

> >

> > >However, this skill comes at a cost, and it's not just the cost of

> > >energy that Jane pointed out. That's a big thing. Also we may

> have

> > >health destroying stress hormones coursing through our veins all

> the

> > >while we are " chit chatting " in order to fit in (with the constant

> > >background chatter in my head, " don't say that, don't say this, you

> > >can't do that, stand like this, now nod your head, use this tone of

> > >voice, not too loud, now louder, now smile, oh! now apologize...)

> >

> > Yes and in my case I have to have a drink or two to calm my nerves

> > before going to any family functions. Some times I have way too

> much

> > and end up just making a fool out of myself. But at least they put

> > that down to the drink and not my odd behaviour. Its easy to

> explain

> > away behaviour if you are drunk. Not so easy if you are stone cold

> > sobour. My family is very NT. My Cousins all have done something

> in

> > their lives. I have Lawyers, Teachers, Accountants etc.... Its

> > hard as I am the oldest Cousin living up to these great achievers.

> I

> > mean I had it a lot harder than them. None of them were born with

> > the same condition as me and they all have lead active social

> lives.

> > None have really understood me. I suspect that they don't want to

> > either. I have gotten to the point when I just do not care when my

> > family thinks. loves me for who I am and that is all that

> > matters.

> >

> > I missed my Moms 40th (Rubey) Wedding Anniversary and have not

> heard

> > the last of it. Mom told me that she was asked constantly where I

> > was. But you know I do not care. As far as I am concerned that

> > party was a few days before their actual Anniversary as well. So

> > logically I did not miss it and I did spend the day with them.

> >

> > >But the main point is that you have to surrender your own identity

> > >in

> > >order to act NT. African American's don't like having to

> surrender

> > >their partial African identity in order to pass for white (in the

> > >case of those who can), or having to " act authentically black " in

> > >order to be accepted in the " black community " , my dog would be very

> > >stressed if I was constantly forcing her to be a cat....

> >

> > Too right and I have outgrown a lot of my traits. For example I do

> > not hand flap like I used to. I do simulate eye contact and I do

> > talk about a wide range of subject and listen to others. I also do

> > not obsess as much about things. I used to hoard loads of junk and

> > now I have thrown out a lot that I do not need. I feel better for

> > this. I call it Life Laudery and it works quite well. Getting rid

> > of the old in life and starts afresh.

> >

> > >Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, supress our stims, act

> > >social,

> > >for example), but it can create a sort of " split personality " , a

> > >sort

> > >of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is or BE who he

> is

> > >and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

> > >

> >

> > Yes and maybe one day they will accept me for the way I am. But

> > until then I have to put on my NT Mask in order to fit in with my

> > family.

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > My Aspergers Groups

> >

> > http://www.geocities.com/chemerelite

> > http://clix.to/chemer

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Camille wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I wanted to add a thought about " acting NT " . Yes

> it's a good thing

> to do sometimes, it can help, if you can do it, to

> get through

> certain necessary transactions. I can get better

> service by acting

> NT than by being really myself, sometimes, maybe

> most of the time.

>

> I think that is the best that any parent can hope

> for in trying to

> train an autistic child to cope with the world.

-----Hi Camille,

You make a very good point. My son entered high

school this fall, and he gets home completely drained.

He still prefers to hang out/play ball with two

neighbor boys who are two years younger. With his own

age peers, he's really uncomfortable, and it pains me

to observe this.

On the flip side, he's really focused on his

studies and intent on making good grades.

I really have no idea on how to 'teach' him

social skills, because my own methods are so

fly-by-the-seat-of-my pants, and my brain seems to

pick out words to make something humourous, in

conversation, but I don't know if that makes it

genuine 'socializing'.

>

> However, this skill comes at a cost, and it's not

> just the cost of

> energy that Jane pointed out. That's a big thing.

> Also we may have

> health destroying stress hormones coursing through

> our veins all the

> while we are " chit chatting " in order to fit in

> (with the constant

> background chatter in my head, " don't say that,

> don't say this, you

> can't do that, stand like this, now nod your head,

> use this tone of

> voice, not too loud, now louder, now smile, oh! now

> apologize...)

----Haha! I know that one, about apologizing; or

saying something out loud that seems perfectly

natural/makes sense to me only to find out it's

shocking or something

>

> But the main point is that you have to surrender

> your own identity in

> order to act NT. African American's don't like

> having to surrender

> their partial African identity in order to pass for

> white (in the

> case of those who can), or having to " act

> authentically black " in

> order to be accepted in the " black community " , my

> dog would be very

> stressed if I was constantly forcing her to be a

> cat....

--------Maybe a key to warding off stress is being so

filled up with feeling so good about who one genuinely

is (oh so hard sometimes) that, just playfully going

'out in the world' can be viewed as an adventure

sometimes.

I can browbeat and depress myself for having no

common sense, being disorganized, not keeping up well,

or I can leave the house having filled my spirit with

my own personal things that lift me up.

I know a lot of AS folks who don't like notions

of spirituality, but something, whatever it is, that

makes you feel good about yourself, dip into those

things before you leave the house so that they linger

about and within you as a kind of protective 'shield'.

>

> Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, supress our

> stims, act social,

> for example), but it can create a sort of " split

> personality " , a sort

> of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is

> or BE who he is

> and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

>

> That's crazy making.

>

>

> Camille

>

-------Yes, it is. But there's got to be all sorts of

ideas about how to better cope with those ventures

'into the world'.

Nanne

>

>

>

> >

> > >From: " jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] " <jypsy@i...>

> > >

> > >Interesting how people equate becoming able to

> interact with the

> world

> > on

> > >NT-ish terms with being " cured " of autism. When

> my son was 3, he

> > started

> > to

> > >disappear behind that autism wall. I already

> knew that he had

> sensory

> > >integration dysfunction (that was our dx starting

> place), and with

> > intensive

> > >OT and me helping him to " learn " how to process

> sensory

> information he

> > >became able to interact " normally " (for the most

> part) with the

> outside

> > >world. I suppose that some people would consider

> him to

> be " cured. "

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Autism and the Myth of False Hope

> > Written by Raun K. Kaufman

> >

> >

>

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Autism_and_the_Myth_of_False_Hope.

> ht

> > m

> >

> > Autism is incurable, right? People say it's a

> lifelong condition. An

> > irreversible brain disorder. A tragedy. According

> to many, anyone

> who

> > says

> > otherwise is promoting " false hope. " There's just

> one problem with

> this

> > point of view: it's not true. Autism does not have

> to be a life

> > sentence.

> > And there is no such thing as " false hope. "

> >

> > How do I know? My entire life is the product of

> what many

> call " false

> > hope. " At 18 months old, I was diagnosed with

> autism. In fact, my

> case

> > was

> > considered severe, with no speech and a tested

> I.Q. of less than

> 30. I

> > would spend my days endlessly engaged in

> repetitive behaviors such

> as

> > spinning plates, rocking, and flapping my hands in

> front of my

> face. I

> > never looked at others nor did I give the

> slightest response to the

> > calls

> > and requests of the people around me. I was " in my

> own world. "

> >

> > As I'm sure you can imagine, my parents were told

> many things about

> what

> > my

> > future would hold. No change was to be expected in

> my development. I

> > would

> > never speak, never have friends, never go to

> school, never learn to

> > communicate with others in any meaningful way. The

> professionals

>

=== message truncated ===

=====

" Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to console. " --

Seurat

[Guest guest]

At 03:47 AM 9/21/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi,

>

>Life laundry is a neat idea. I think we do better with less junk,

>emotional and material.

I'm a bit of a laundry freak but Life Laundry.... I think Not!! not for

this packrat!!!

My emotional junk is pretty sparse but I'm queen of the " good garbage "

and I have a lot of cool stuff too

when my son was packing to move to Toronto at one point he stood in the

hall and looked around and said

" you couldn't ever move out of here could you mom?! "

when I was little I collected sugar packages

then rocks, shells...... I just never stopped collecting neat stuff....

you can have my emotional junk but I like my junk junk

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

At 08:56 AM 9/21/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>The longer conversations are definitely more stressful for me unless I'm in

>a really chatty state. I can't even count the number of times that I've

>started to talk to someone, expecting it to only be a quick exchange, and

>had it turn into a marathon chat. Ugh!

>

>

The more I talk the more I realize how *self-centred* I am and the more

uncomfortable I become and wish I had never opened my mouth (or left home)

in the first place.

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

At 06:46 AM 9/21/2003 -0700, you wrote:

> Also we may have

> > health destroying stress hormones coursing through

> > our veins all the

> > while we are " chit chatting " in order to fit in

> > (with the constant

> > background chatter in my head, " don't say that,

> > don't say this, you

> > can't do that, stand like this, now nod your head,

> > use this tone of

> > voice, not too loud, now louder, now smile, oh! now

> > apologize...)

>

>----Haha! I know that one, about apologizing; or

>saying something out loud that seems perfectly

>natural/makes sense to me only to find out it's

>shocking or something

oh yeah!! been there!!! too often....

> >

> > But the main point is that you have to surrender

> > your own identity in

> > order to act NT. African American's don't like

> > having to surrender

> > their partial African identity in order to pass for

> > white (in the

> > case of those who can), or having to " act

> > authentically black " in

> > order to be accepted in the " black community " , my

> > dog would be very

> > stressed if I was constantly forcing her to be a

> > cat....

>

>--------Maybe a key to warding off stress is being so

>filled up with feeling so good about who one genuinely

>is (oh so hard sometimes) that, just playfully going

>'out in the world' can be viewed as an adventure

>sometimes.

> I can browbeat and depress myself for having no

>common sense, being disorganized, not keeping up well,

>or I can leave the house having filled my spirit with

>my own personal things that lift me up.

>

> I know a lot of AS folks who don't like notions

>of spirituality, but something, whatever it is, that

>makes you feel good about yourself, dip into those

>things before you leave the house so that they linger

>about and within you as a kind of protective 'shield'.

> >

maybe there is something to the age thing.... (or maybe it's a combination

of age and MS...)

I was probably far more aware of playing the NT game 10 and 20 years ago

but I have better things to put my energies into now.

" I'm too old to play their game " or maybe " I have so many issues now,

what's a hit of AS.... "

I've had my whole life to learn to deal with and accommodate and cope with

my AS -- I'm a lot more at peace with it than my MS.

" out in the world " I am a fish out of water... but one that always survives

to come back to my pond and the very fact I know that makes everything ok.

> > Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, supress our

> > stims, act social,

> > for example), but it can create a sort of " split

> > personality " , a sort

> > of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is

> > or BE who he is

> > and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

> >

> > That's crazy making.

> >

> >

> > Camille

> >

>-------Yes, it is. But there's got to be all sorts of

>ideas about how to better cope with those ventures

>'into the world'.

>

>Nanne

we start to condition society

like how Clay was conditioned at Autreat.... handflapping is ok, smoking isn't

society is starting to adopt the smoking part

what are their logical issues with handflapping?

or we can wait for the next Aspie to come along and make a stand

or the next generation....

-jypsy

in the " disgusting " " loud " " bold " jacket

with the " Ooops...Wrong Planet! Syndrome " button

and the Access Awareness pin....

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

Camille,

I agree with you-

There is a rock-goth song on the radio they used to play by the band

" Evanescence " called " Going Under " . I think it describes the feeling of trying

to fit into an NT world. The lead singer, Amy Lee, has a beautiful, powerful l

voice- I sing along when I'm feeling trapped and play the song.

The words are:

Verse 1

Now I will tell you what I've done for you...

50,000 tears I've cried

screaming, decieving and bleeding for you

and you still won't hear me

(Going under)

Don't want your hand this time I'll save myself

Maybe I'll wake up for once

Not tormented- daily defeted by you

Just when I - thought I'd reached the bottom

Chours

I--- I'm dying again

I'm going under (going under)

Drowning in you, oh

I'm falling forever, ah-ah

I've got to breakthrough

I'm going under

Verse 2

Bluring and stiring the truth and the lies

(so I don't know what's real and what's not)

Always confusing the thoughts in my head

So I can't trust myself anymore

Chours

I --- I'm dying again

I'm going under (going under)

Drowning in you, oh

I'm falling forever, ah-ah

I've got to breakthrough

Verse 3

So go on and scream

scream at me I'm so far away

I won't be broken again

I've got to breathe I can't keep going under

Repeat chorus...

I also like the lead singer because she has that dark, Goth-like, cynical view

of things- and she's a cat person, too.

Jeanette

Raun K. Kaufman et.al.

Hi,

I wanted to add a thought about " acting NT " . Yes it's a good thing

to do sometimes, it can help, if you can do it, to get through

certain necessary transactions. I can get better service by acting

NT than by being really myself, sometimes, maybe most of the time.

I think that is the best that any parent can hope for in trying to

train an autistic child to cope with the world.

However, this skill comes at a cost, and it's not just the cost of

energy that Jane pointed out. That's a big thing. Also we may have

health destroying stress hormones coursing through our veins all the

while we are " chit chatting " in order to fit in (with the constant

background chatter in my head, " don't say that, don't say this, you

can't do that, stand like this, now nod your head, use this tone of

voice, not too loud, now louder, now smile, oh! now apologize...)

But the main point is that you have to surrender your own identity in

order to act NT. African American's don't like having to surrender

their partial African identity in order to pass for white (in the

case of those who can), or having to " act authentically black " in

order to be accepted in the " black community " , my dog would be very

stressed if I was constantly forcing her to be a cat....

Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, suppress our stims, act social,

for example), but it can create a sort of " split personality " , a sort

of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is or BE who he is

and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

That's crazy making.

Camille

>

> >From: " jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] " <jypsy@i...>

> >

> >Interesting how people equate becoming able to interact with the

world

> on

> >NT-ish terms with being " cured " of autism. When my son was 3, he

> started

> to

> >disappear behind that autism wall. I already knew that he had

sensory

> >integration dysfunction (that was our dx starting place), and with

> intensive

> >OT and me helping him to " learn " how to process sensory

information he

> >became able to interact " normally " (for the most part) with the

outside

> >world. I suppose that some people would consider him to

be " cured. "

> >

> >

>

>

> Autism and the Myth of False Hope

> Written by Raun K. Kaufman

>

>

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Autism_and_the_Myth_of_False_Hope.

ht

> m

>

> Autism is incurable, right? People say it's a lifelong condition. An

> irreversible brain disorder. A tragedy. According to many, anyone

who

> says

> otherwise is promoting " false hope. " There's just one problem with

this

> point of view: it's not true. Autism does not have to be a life

> sentence.

> And there is no such thing as " false hope. "

>

> How do I know? My entire life is the product of what many

call " false

> hope. " At 18 months old, I was diagnosed with autism. In fact, my

case

> was

> considered severe, with no speech and a tested I.Q. of less than

30. I

> would spend my days endlessly engaged in repetitive behaviors such

as

> spinning plates, rocking, and flapping my hands in front of my

face. I

> never looked at others nor did I give the slightest response to the

> calls

> and requests of the people around me. I was " in my own world. "

>

> As I'm sure you can imagine, my parents were told many things about

what

> my

> future would hold. No change was to be expected in my development. I

> would

> never speak, never have friends, never go to school, never learn to

> communicate with others in any meaningful way. The professionals

> recommended eventual institutionalization.

>

> My parents, however, decided to make a complete departure from

> traditional

> methods of " treatment. " They designed and implemented an innovative

and

> groundbreaking program that was both home-based and child-centered:

The

> Son-Rise Program®.

>

> After working with me for over three years, my parents achieved

what the

> experts had deemed " impossible " : my complete recovery from autism

with

> no

> trace of my former condition. After living a normal childhood, then

> earning

> a degree in Biomedical Ethics from Brown University, I went on to

direct

> an

> educational center for school-aged children. I now lecture

> internationally,

> as well as being an author, teacher, and the Director of Global

Outreach

> for the Autism Treatment Center of AmericaT.

>

> Unfortunately, many parents today are still not given full

information

> about all of theoptions available to them. However, I would want

parents

> to

> know that they do not have to face the lack of support that my

parents

> faced, nor do they have to settle for a prognosis of hopelessness.

After

> my

> recovery, my father, Barry Neil Kaufman, wrote a book relating our

story

> entitled Son-Rise: The Miracle Continues (later the subject of an

NBC

> television movie). Then, in 1983, my parents founded what is now

known

> as

> The Autism Treatment Center of America, a division of The Option

> Institute,

> a non-profit, charitable organization, located in Sheffield,

> Massachusetts.

> Our center is dedicated to helping parents and professionals caring

for

> children with autism, PDD, autism spectrum disorders, and other

related

> developmental challenges. We teach a system of treatment and

education

> designed to help families and caregivers enable their children to

> dramatically improve in all areas of learning, development,

> communication,

> and skill acquisition. Having worked with thousands of people

worldwide,

> we

> continue to achieve results that have forever changed the face of

autism

> and other developmental disorders.

>

> Currently, we offer an introductory program called The Son-Rise

Program

> Start-Up, which provides parents and professionals with all of the

tools

> they need to design, implement, and maintain a child-centered Son-

Rise

> Program. This training course is offered several times a year on our

> campus

> in Massachusetts, and we will also be sending a team of teachers to

> London

> from 13 to 17 January 2002, to teach the full Start-Up program at

that

> time..

>

> The foundation of the program rests upon this idea: the children

show us

> the way in, and then we show them the way out. In this way, we

establish

> a

> mutual connection and relationship, which is the platform for all

> education

> and growth. Then, we can teach our children everything we want them

to

> learn with exponentially greater success, speed, and ease.

>

> One specific technique derived from this principle is joining. This

> means

> that when a child is doing a particular repetitive, exclusive

behavior

> (i.e. stacking blocks, flapping hands, etc.), we do not try to stop

the

> child from doing this. On the contrary, we do this activity with

him! We

> find that children consistently look at and interact more with

people

> when

> they are sincerely joined in their repetitive activities. This

unlocks

> the

> door to the child's world.

>

> Another key technique is to facilitate skill acquisition by

capitalizing

> on

> each child's own motivation. Since, for these children, traditional

> learning modalities will rarely be appealing, we customize the

> presentation

> of curriculum to match the child's highest areas of motivation. This

> way,

> we use the particular skills and interests our child already has to

> maximize learning globally.

>

> I could discuss other principles and strategies, but, instead, I

will

> end

> where I began: with one all-important note. People have accused us

of

> advocating " false hope, " asserting that we cannot guarantee that all

> children will turn out like me. This is true. No one can guarantee

that.

> But does this mean that parents should be discouraged from hoping

for

> their

> children? Does that mean that all of these children should be given

life

> sentences? Who decided that a life sentence was better than an open

door

> and an outstretched hand?

>

> The very idea of " false hope " means that there are times when

hoping can

> be

> bad, wrong, or inappropriate. Because I have seen over and over

again,

> in

> my life and in the lives of countless others, that hoping only

helps and

> never hurts, I do not believe that hope can ever be " false. " When I

was

> diagnosed with severe autism, my parents decided to see

possibilities

> where

> others saw none, and it was this perspective that enabled my

complete

> recovery. Yes, it is true that we cannot know in advance what any

given

> child will accomplish. But we must not decide in advance all of the

> things

> a child will never achieve. You should never have to apologize for

> giving

> your child a chance. Hope leads to action, and without action, none

of

> these children can be helped.

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> Autism Spectrum Resources

> www.PlanetAutism.com

> jypsy@i...

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- " jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] "

wrote:

> >

> >

> we start to condition society

> like how Clay was conditioned at Autreat....

> handflapping is ok, smoking isn't

> society is starting to adopt the smoking part

> what are their logical issues with handflapping?

>

> or we can wait for the next Aspie to come along and

> make a stand

> or the next generation....

>

> -jypsy

>

---------Never been a flapper, but a rocker/swayer.

Waiting in line at the grocery just a bit ago my son

whispered I was swaying too wildly. Heh.

Nanne

in the " disgusting " " loud " " bold " jacket

> with the " Ooops...Wrong Planet! Syndrome " button

> and the Access Awareness pin....

>

>

> ________________________________

> Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> Autism Spectrum Resources

> www.PlanetAutism.com

> jypsy@...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

jypsy wrote:

> we start to condition society

> like how Clay was conditioned at Autreat..

> handflapping is ok, smoking isn't

> society is starting to adopt the smoking part

> what are their logical issues with handflapping?

Hi jypsy,

I'm not sure what you mean by " conditioned " .

To be fair, I've known since before the first

time I went, in 1999, that smoking was not

allowed. They also don't allow perfume, cologne,

or any other stinky thing, and I appreciate that,

as I don't like perfume. Many people have asthma,

or allergies, and it's only out of consideration

for others that we abstain from bringing those things.

In addition, since the 24th of July this year, it has

been illegal to smoke in ANY public place in New York.

I do enjoy Autreat, and recommend it to anyone here.

Clay

[Guest guest]

At 11:51 PM 9/21/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>jypsy wrote:

>

> > we start to condition society

> > like how Clay was conditioned at Autreat..

> > handflapping is ok, smoking isn't

> > society is starting to adopt the smoking part

> > what are their logical issues with handflapping?

>

>Hi jypsy,

>I'm not sure what you mean by " conditioned " .

>To be fair, I've known since before the first

>time I went, in 1999, that smoking was not

>allowed. They also don't allow perfume, cologne,

>or any other stinky thing, and I appreciate that,

>as I don't like perfume. Many people have asthma,

>or allergies, and it's only out of consideration

>for others that we abstain from bringing those things.

>In addition, since the 24th of July this year, it has

>been illegal to smoke in ANY public place in New York.

>I do enjoy Autreat, and recommend it to anyone here.

>

>Clay

no, that's what I meant...

PEI has been smoke free in public places since June 1st this year

The hospital here is scent free, cell phone free ....

these are *rules* that society imposes on society that society gets

conditioned to

" social drinking " is " acceptable " , driving with a blood alcohol level of

..08 is " acceptable "

crying babies are accepted

nursing women are no longer being forced into washrooms

we don't need to hide either

society can be conditioned into accepting that we are out there before they

leave home too

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

At 12:27 PM 9/21/2003 -0700, you wrote:

> >

>---------Never been a flapper, but a rocker/swayer.

>Waiting in line at the grocery just a bit ago my son

>whispered I was swaying too wildly. Heh.

>

>Nanne

I'm not a flapper either

the more I hurt the more I rock

I trace circles with my thumbs.... on things... in the air... in the palm

of my hand... alot...

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

Chatty Aspie

I wonder if Mattel would be interested?

About your :

I took on several of my friend Kati's traits when I was in junior

high, I guess I said to myself " What would Kati do? " . I don't do

that now. Your use of might be a very good thing, I'm not

criticizing it, but I don't do it anymore. I just use the rules,

like " people don't like it if you go on and on about something

arcane. "

I have a really hard time judging myself, my critical analytical side

hates my impractical hippie-like side (the one that goes around

getting impossible crushes, for instance) I don't know if I am

trying hard when I do something. I don't know if I could have done

better, or if I got all perfectionist about it. That's how the dual

personality works itself out in me. Two halves that don't really

like each other, but that have the same name.

Camille

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Cerulean,

You make a good point about filling yourself up with positive

feelings.

I think your kids are getting something I didn't, which is a way to

discuss the situation of " acting " , surely that would have made a

difference to me as a kid and teen when I was making a major effort

to figure out who I was. I don't think my daughter is neurotic about

her identity, she likes who she is.

I also tend to see things on the bleak side, so I didn't point out

that I am not depressed about the NT world all the time. I have NT

friends, I just don't spend alot of time with them, still they have

helped me alot throught the years.

I'm glad you interjected something positive.

> --------Maybe a key to warding off stress is being so

> filled up with feeling so good about who one genuinely

> is (oh so hard sometimes) that, just playfully going

> 'out in the world' can be viewed as an adventure

> sometimes.

> I can browbeat and depress myself for having no

> common sense, being disorganized, not keeping up well,

> or I can leave the house having filled my spirit with

> my own personal things that lift me up.

>

> I know a lot of AS folks who don't like notions

> of spirituality, but something, whatever it is, that

> makes you feel good about yourself, dip into those

> things before you leave the house so that they linger

> about and within you as a kind of protective 'shield'.

> >

> > Yes, we can do it (pull off an NT act, supress our

> > stims, act social,

> > for example), but it can create a sort of " split

> > personality " , a sort

> > of unreality where a person can't just BE who she is

> > or BE who he is

> > and always must be acting in order to " get along " .

> >

> > That's crazy making.

> >

> >

> > Camille

> >

> -------Yes, it is. But there's got to be all sorts of

> ideas about how to better cope with those ventures

> 'into the world'.

>

> Nanne

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > >From: " jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] " <jypsy@i...>

> > > >

> > > >Interesting how people equate becoming able to

> > interact with the

> > world

> > > on

> > > >NT-ish terms with being " cured " of autism. When

> > my son was 3, he

> > > started

> > > to

> > > >disappear behind that autism wall. I already

> > knew that he had

> > sensory

> > > >integration dysfunction (that was our dx starting

> > place), and with

> > > intensive

> > > >OT and me helping him to " learn " how to process

> > sensory

> > information he

> > > >became able to interact " normally " (for the most

> > part) with the

> > outside

> > > >world. I suppose that some people would consider

> > him to

> > be " cured. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Autism and the Myth of False Hope

> > > Written by Raun K. Kaufman

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Autism_and_the_Myth_of_False_Hope.

> > ht

> > > m

> > >

> > > Autism is incurable, right? People say it's a

> > lifelong condition. An

> > > irreversible brain disorder. A tragedy. According

> > to many, anyone

> > who

> > > says

> > > otherwise is promoting " false hope. " There's just

> > one problem with

> > this

> > > point of view: it's not true. Autism does not have

> > to be a life

> > > sentence.

> > > And there is no such thing as " false hope. "

> > >

> > > How do I know? My entire life is the product of

> > what many

> > call " false

> > > hope. " At 18 months old, I was diagnosed with

> > autism. In fact, my

> > case

> > > was

> > > considered severe, with no speech and a tested

> > I.Q. of less than

> > 30. I

> > > would spend my days endlessly engaged in

> > repetitive behaviors such

> > as

> > > spinning plates, rocking, and flapping my hands in

> > front of my

> > face. I

> > > never looked at others nor did I give the

> > slightest response to the

> > > calls

> > > and requests of the people around me. I was " in my

> > own world. "

> > >

> > > As I'm sure you can imagine, my parents were told

> > many things about

> > what

> > > my

> > > future would hold. No change was to be expected in

> > my development. I

> > > would

> > > never speak, never have friends, never go to

> > school, never learn to

> > > communicate with others in any meaningful way. The

> > professionals

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> =====

>

> " Let's go get drunk on light again---it has the power to

console. " -- Seurat

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have some cool junk, some of it rescued from trash cans. I am glad

that I have moved several times though, since it made me get rid of

the marginally cool junk and the stupid junk.

You should see my pique assiette mosaics, they look a bit like glued

together junk (broken cup and plate pieces and ceramic figurines...)

Hey let me know if you ever have a garage sale!

Camille

> >Hi,

> >

> >Life laundry is a neat idea. I think we do better with less junk,

> >emotional and material.

>

> I'm a bit of a laundry freak but Life Laundry.... I think Not!! not

for

> this packrat!!!

> My emotional junk is pretty sparse but I'm queen of the " good

garbage "

> and I have a lot of cool stuff too

> when my son was packing to move to Toronto at one point he stood in

the

> hall and looked around and said

> " you couldn't ever move out of here could you mom?! "

> when I was little I collected sugar packages

> then rocks, shells...... I just never stopped collecting neat

stuff....

> you can have my emotional junk but I like my junk junk

>

> -jypsy

>

>

> ________________________________

> Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> Autism Spectrum Resources

> www.PlanetAutism.com

> jypsy@i...

[Guest guest]

In the words of nne nnadanna,

" Oh, that's very different then. Never mind. "

No, let's not hide. I don't hide it from people I know.

Clay 8<{)

> >jypsy wrote:

> >

> > > we start to condition society

> > > like how Clay was conditioned at Autreat..

> > > handflapping is ok, smoking isn't

> > > society is starting to adopt the smoking part

> > > what are their logical issues with handflapping?

> >

> >Hi jypsy,

> >I'm not sure what you mean by " conditioned " .

> >To be fair, I've known since before the first

> >time I went, in 1999, that smoking was not

> >allowed. They also don't allow perfume, cologne,

> >or any other stinky thing, and I appreciate that,

> >as I don't like perfume. Many people have asthma,

> >or allergies, and it's only out of consideration

> >for others that we abstain from bringing those things.

> >In addition, since the 24th of July this year, it has

> >been illegal to smoke in ANY public place in New York.

> >I do enjoy Autreat, and recommend it to anyone here.

> >

> >Clay

>

> no, that's what I meant...

> PEI has been smoke free in public places since June 1st this year

> The hospital here is scent free, cell phone free ....

> these are *rules* that society imposes on society that society

> gets conditioned to " socialdrinking " is " acceptable " , driving

> with a blood alcohol level of .08 is " acceptable "

> crying babies are accepted

> nursing women are no longer being forced into washrooms

> we don't need to hide either

> society can be conditioned into accepting that we are out

> there before they leave home too

>

> -jypsy

>

>

> ________________________________

> Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> Autism Spectrum Resources

> www.PlanetAutism.com

> jypsy@i...

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

>I have a really hard time judging myself, my critical analytical side

>hates my impractical hippie-like side

>

Does your hippy side say " Why can't we just get along with ourselves? "

In my case, the analytical side had to accept the evidence. For me, at

least, that hippy stuff actually works. It struggles to understand how

and why, of course.

I am not a philosopher, I am an engineer.

Ride the Music

AndyTiedye

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I guess depending on the situation, one or the other (the analyzing

scientist rule follower or the freewheeling silly artiste romantic

rulebreaker) just takes control. I guess if the hippie takes over

and nothing bad happens then the scientist has not much to say and

just waits until she is needed (deciding on what courses to take, how

to avoid people...), but if the hippie chick ever makes a mistake the

scientist bullies the hippie chick really badly and tells her that

she is stupid and an airhead and that she should have known better...

But then _I'm_ neurotic.

;-)

The hippie chick started a new mosaic project and the scientist

said, " Why are you doing that? You need to do homework. "

Camille

>

> >I have a really hard time judging myself, my critical analytical

side

> >hates my impractical hippie-like side

> >

> Does your hippy side say " Why can't we just get along with

ourselves? "

>

> In my case, the analytical side had to accept the evidence. For

me, at

> least, that hippy stuff actually works. It struggles to

understand how

> and why, of course.

>

> I am not a philosopher, I am an engineer.

>

>

> Ride the Music

>

> AndyTiedye

[Guest guest]

weird. i dont see it as ac at all. it reminds me of the martyrs on some of the

as partner fora, the kind who marry a good earner, and think they will be able

to live through him. when he wants no part of it, they weep and wail about how

horrible as people are and how much they hate this " disease " . eg : 50,000 tears

I've cried screaming, decieving and bleeding for you and you still won't hear

me..

very irritating.

Verse 1

Now I will tell you what I've done for you...

50,000 tears I've cried

screaming, decieving and bleeding for you

and you still won't hear me

(Going under)

Don't want your hand this time I'll save myself

Maybe I'll wake up for once

Not tormented- daily defeted by you

Just when I - thought I'd reached the bottom

__________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

At 01:57 AM 9/22/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi,

>

>I have some cool junk, some of it rescued from trash cans.

me too.... this is where the term " good garbage " came from - coined by me

when I was about 8 and was trying to convince my folks it was worthy of

keeping - " awe... but it's GOOD garbage " ..... It worked BTW and my mom has

never let me forget the term

> I am glad

>that I have moved several times though, since it made me get rid of

>the marginally cool junk and the stupid junk.

been in this old farm house 15 years this summer

>You should see my pique assiette mosaics, they look a bit like glued

>together junk (broken cup and plate pieces and ceramic figurines...)

I have 3 boxes of " shards " - broken pottery (got really good at dropping

things when MS hit)

going to do something..... really interesting.... with them someday

maybe a fountain/waterfall thingy....

>Hey let me know if you ever have a garage sale!

that was my comment to " been one helluva yard sale eh?! "

>Camille

-jypsy

>

> > >Hi,

> > >

> > >Life laundry is a neat idea. I think we do better with less junk,

> > >emotional and material.

> >

> > I'm a bit of a laundry freak but Life Laundry.... I think Not!! not

>for

> > this packrat!!!

> > My emotional junk is pretty sparse but I'm queen of the " good

>garbage "

> > and I have a lot of cool stuff too

> > when my son was packing to move to Toronto at one point he stood in

>the

> > hall and looked around and said

> > " you couldn't ever move out of here could you mom?! "

> > when I was little I collected sugar packages

> > then rocks, shells...... I just never stopped collecting neat

>stuff....

> > you can have my emotional junk but I like my junk junk

> >

> > -jypsy

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> > Autism Spectrum Resources

> > www.PlanetAutism.com

> > jypsy@i...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

sigh...

even people who know me pretty well are starting emails with:

" hmmmm...not exactly sure of your meaning... "

rofl

now you all know the answer to the question " why don't you write a book

jypsy... "

-jypsy

At 02:23 AM 9/22/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>In the words of nne nnadanna,

> " Oh, that's very different then. Never mind. "

>No, let's not hide. I don't hide it from people I know.

>

>Clay 8<{)

>

> > >jypsy wrote:

> > >

> > > > we start to condition society

> > > > like how Clay was conditioned at Autreat..

> > > > handflapping is ok, smoking isn't

> > > > society is starting to adopt the smoking part

> > > > what are their logical issues with handflapping?

> > >

> > >Hi jypsy,

> > >I'm not sure what you mean by " conditioned " .

> > >To be fair, I've known since before the first

> > >time I went, in 1999, that smoking was not

> > >allowed. They also don't allow perfume, cologne,

> > >or any other stinky thing, and I appreciate that,

> > >as I don't like perfume. Many people have asthma,

> > >or allergies, and it's only out of consideration

> > >for others that we abstain from bringing those things.

> > >In addition, since the 24th of July this year, it has

> > >been illegal to smoke in ANY public place in New York.

> > >I do enjoy Autreat, and recommend it to anyone here.

> > >

> > >Clay

> >

> > no, that's what I meant...

> > PEI has been smoke free in public places since June 1st this year

> > The hospital here is scent free, cell phone free ....

> > these are *rules* that society imposes on society that society

> > gets conditioned to " socialdrinking " is " acceptable " , driving

> > with a blood alcohol level of .08 is " acceptable "

> > crying babies are accepted

> > nursing women are no longer being forced into washrooms

> > we don't need to hide either

> > society can be conditioned into accepting that we are out

> > there before they leave home too

> >

> > -jypsy

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> > Autism Spectrum Resources

> > www.PlanetAutism.com

> > jypsy@i...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Chatty Aspie

>

> I wonder if Mattel would be interested?

Hmm...when you squeeze her hand she could

tell you the capitals of all the countries in the world

tell you the name and year of every hurricane

explain in detail the difference between effect and affect

insist that you look at her doorknob collection

>

> About your :

>

> I took on several of my friend Kati's traits when I was in junior

> high, I guess I said to myself " What would Kati do? " . I don't do

> that now. Your use of might be a very good thing, I'm not

> criticizing it, but I don't do it anymore. I just use the rules,

> like " people don't like it if you go on and on about something

> arcane. "

I use social rules and manners in most situations, but since I have kids and

live in a neighborhood with lots of kids, I generally have to take my social

exchanges beyond just politeness. That's where comes in handy.

>

>

> I have a really hard time judging myself, my critical analytical side

> hates my impractical hippie-like side (the one that goes around

> getting impossible crushes, for instance) I don't know if I am

> trying hard when I do something. I don't know if I could have done

> better, or if I got all perfectionist about it. That's how the dual

> personality works itself out in me. Two halves that don't really

> like each other, but that have the same name.

I used to have a totally perfectionist half that would always beat up my

overloaded, overwhelmed other half that just wanted to rush through things

and go hide. That was quite unpleasant. My halves are working together

much better now.

>

> Camille

>

>

> > >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have all kinds of stuff. When my grandparents died, I took a lot of their

stuff that no one else wanted. I was also the only one of my dad's father's

grandchildren who wanted his entire collection of pipes. There are about

225 of them. Everyone else wanted one or two pipes, but it really bothered

me to think about his collection being all split up after he spent over 70

years amassing it.

Any way...I have lots and lots of old stuff from my grandparents, but I have

started picking through other people's trash, too. I found an awesome chair

that someone had out with their trash. It just needs to be reupholstered.

I also do faux stained glass projects with old wood-framed windows.

Re: Raun K. Kaufman et.al.

> Hi,

>

> I have some cool junk, some of it rescued from trash cans. I am glad

> that I have moved several times though, since it made me get rid of

> the marginally cool junk and the stupid junk.

>

> You should see my pique assiette mosaics, they look a bit like glued

> together junk (broken cup and plate pieces and ceramic figurines...)

>

> Hey let me know if you ever have a garage sale!

>

> Camille

>

>

> > >Hi,

> > >

> > >Life laundry is a neat idea. I think we do better with less junk,

> > >emotional and material.

> >

> > I'm a bit of a laundry freak but Life Laundry.... I think Not!! not

> for

> > this packrat!!!

> > My emotional junk is pretty sparse but I'm queen of the " good

> garbage "

> > and I have a lot of cool stuff too

> > when my son was packing to move to Toronto at one point he stood in

> the

> > hall and looked around and said

> > " you couldn't ever move out of here could you mom?! "

> > when I was little I collected sugar packages

> > then rocks, shells...... I just never stopped collecting neat

> stuff....

> > you can have my emotional junk but I like my junk junk

> >

> > -jypsy

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> > Autism Spectrum Resources

> > www.PlanetAutism.com

> > jypsy@i...

>

>

>

>