Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Oh, <heavy sigh>, I got tears in my eyes thinking of what your poor son is going through. It breaks my heart. No wonder you spent all weekend in tears. (((((you)))))) I'm glad things have improved a little. Why did the doc take him off of that medication? I'm not familiar with it,. .Is it for TS? Our son's tics are minor in comparison. Some vocal stuff, mostly . ..throat clearing, quiet grunts, sometimes quiet squeaks. The docs, over the years, have come up with different diagnosis', so not sure what to believe. Some said TS, others said OCD tics. <shrug> Not sure. It is frustrating how long the wait can be to get into someone who specializes in the treatment of OCD. I remember that wait. . It seemed forever. That is GREAT news that your husband is doing some reading. It will help him to understand. Yay! I hear you, on the migraine thing. I try to just lie down in a dark room and ride them out, since even cutting a Vicadin into pieces and taking a quarter can make my heart act up. Unfortunately, they don't always hit when I'm at home and can take that option. That's when I try to head them off with the Vicadin and ride out the heart stuff. Okay. . Eeeeeek to the hair falling out thing! I would quit that med too. You know, with the health stuff, you just do the best you can, as I'm sure you know. Life seldom turns out how you think it might. Took me some time to develop that attitude, but it's easier to deal with that way. Have you tried any physical therapy? I see a PT for my Fibro and my left sided weakness. She does some cranial manipulations that seem to help with the migraines. Just a thought. Oh, that is so cool, . My Josh loves video games and has been teaching himself programming since he was 7. He is now 16 and taking some classes through a vocational school that offers DigiPen classes, where he receives college credits. The DigiPen Institute is a school that teaches game programming. ) He loves it! And with his analytical OCD mind, it works with it, instead of against it. ERP is exposure and response prevention. It is part of CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). It is a specific type of therapy where they are exposed to those things that cause them to do rituals. They gain control over the ritual that way, and it can make the need to do it go away. It desensitizes them to it. It can literally make physical changes to the brain, by doing the therapy (since OCD is a neurobiological disorder). We went to therapists for years, who tried many things, but none of it helped. It is also the only proven therapy to work with OCD. This is the only thing that has helped our son. He also had problems with lining up drawers, etc. When he first saw the therapist, they made a hierarchy list of all his rituals. Then they put them in order from least bothersome to most upsetting. They started at the bottom of the list and worked their way up. They gain confidence as they overcome the easier stuff, so they can take on the harder stuff. For instance, our son would constantly check drawers to make sure they were shut. His exposure homework was to leave drawers ajar throughout the house. He had to tolerate them, and sometimes he would even groan out loud (for the first couple of days), but eventually, he ceased to care. It's amazing! I wonder if Micah likes the feeling when he does his rituals/compulsions, because it makes it feel right, or makes the anxiety go away. But, with OCD, that is only temporary. It comes back, as the brain repeats the thought, which in turn repeats the ritual. It's like a brain hiccup. The sad thing is, the more you give into it, the more the OCD grows. It sounds like he is hoarding. Our son is a hoarder too. He once told me if he throws something away, he feels like he is killing it. They can get an emotional attachment to things and have a hard time parting with them. Hoarding is OCD, but it's been explained to me that is " a different flavor " of OCD. So, it's somewhat different from other OCD things. With interviewing therapists, I would just call and ask if the therapist could call me back. Most will do a phone consult, for free. If the receptionist tried to put me off, I would politely insist that I would prefer to talk to the doctor. If they are a good doctor, (someone you would want to go to), they will not be offended. You can tell a lot over the phone, about how they will work out as a therapist. I had a list of questions prepared that I referred to while I was talking to them. If you'd like, I can send it to you. Let me know. ) Big Hugs, . I'm so glad you are here. Praying for the specialist to get you in soon. BJ > > Hey BJ, > It was a rough weekend. The Dr took him off the Clonidine this morning. > > As it made the tics worse it also made the OCD worse. That never occurred to > me, but the Dr wasn't surprised. > > he couldn't stop shaking his head no...at the same time he had his blinking > tic, huffing tic, and teeth chomping tic. It was horrible to watch. > > he would start shaking all over, pull at his hair, slap himself in > frustration that he couldn't control his body. > > then there was the OCD...what a weekend. We both spent a lot of time crying. > But, thankfully we are better today. The med is wearing off, the tics are > fewer and the OCD isn't as disruptive. > > Dr is going to try and pull some strings to get us in with the ped OCD > specialist. normally there is a 2-3 month wait for new patients. > > We are working much better as a family tonight. when my husband came home > and saw the condition Micah was in it moved him to learn about Tourette's and > OCD. He's been reading and is being much more patient with Micah. > > I'm sorry to read you have migraines too. They have robbed me of a lot of my > life. I had them occasionally when I was young, but never went to the Dr. > didn't find out they were migraines until I was 43, when they nearly became a > constant companion. > > I've got Imitrex, but rarely take it, as it knocks me out, and a nap will do > me just as well. > > I know longer take any for prevention....tried Topamax, and Depacote. One > made me cry the other made my hair fall out. Thankfully it came back! > > I'm sorry about the reaction to Imitrex, the stoke, and heart damage. I'm so > sorry, and BJ I'm so sorry to read about your chronic pain, as it is so hard. > I wish you well, Hug back!! > > Micah loves his video games too, wants to be a video game designer when he > grows up. > > ERP? > > Actually Micah hates the compulsions, but loves the way it feels when he > does them, if that makes sence. I guess he gets physical pleasure from doing > them. Its his brain that hates them. > > he's keeping his OCD pretty well hidden at school, the only things I know of > are touching the lockers, and having to get his chair just right at his desk. > > Although his teacher mentioned today, that he is collecting pencil points. > He had been collecting empty water bottles, but she told him he couldn't. At > home he collects string, and clothing tags. He used to collect the plastic > wrappers that toys come in, until till I told him there wasn't room for both, he > had to choose the toy or the wrapper. I'm not sure if this is OCD or not, it > sounds like hoarding, but I'm not sure if that's part of OCD. > > OCD/GAD....it sounds like Micah might be a little of both. They plan to do a > full battery of Psych tests the 18 of November. > > Micah is less mature than his peers too. I think that's why he was rejected > for so long, he didn't start catching up until 5th grade. And then the OCD and > TS really kicked in. Now he's fighting to fit in again. > > Thanks so much for the link to OCfoundation. Ill have to spend some time on > their web site. tried earlier but couldn't get the page to load. > > > " I often interviewed therapists over the phone. That saved on time, > money, and precious appointments (which are often limited, per year). > Ask them of their success rate with treating others with OCD. " > > How do you do this without offending them? > > thanks so much for the list of books! We have a lot of learning to do. > > " Some things you can do with your insurance also, is to ask them to > give you a " single case agreement " with someone that does not take > your insurance. We had to do that with our insurance company. Our > son's therapist started taking insurance, just not ours. I had to > explain that the in-network docs that our insurance provided, did not > specialize in the treatment of OCD, AND they did not use or understand > ERP. Our insurance company worked with us and allowed us to see our > son's therapist, treating him as if he were in-network. " > > I had never heard of that, Ill check into it. Thanks so much BJ! > > Well this is long > > Have a great night! And > thanks so much for your help and encouragement. Today is a much better day. > > > > > Mom to Micah 11 (Tourette Syndrome and OCD), 23, 30 > And Grandma to Chloe 6, Colton 5, Greta 2, and 3mos. > > > > In a message dated 11/2/2008 1:05:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, > BJClosner@... writes: > > Oh boy, (((()))Oh boy, (((()))<WBR>),<sigh> > > Oh, Hon, I know it is hard to hear your son say he wished he were > dead. Our son said things like that when his suffering was bad. It's > impossible for them to not get depressed, dealing with the stuff they > do, constantly, unable to turn it off, and not become depressed. I > can tell you. . .be hopeful. . .Medication and therapy helped bring > the OCD under control for our son, and the depression went with it. > They just need relief. > > You did the right thing, by talking to him about it, and letting him > know you are on his side. Your son is so lucky to have you. You > sound like such a great, caring mom. I had to reinforce and lift up > our son regularly, when he was in crisis. I constantly told him, it > was us against the OCD, and that we were going to beat it. I was his > coach and cheerleader. I promised him it would get better. I spoke > with calm assurance, no matter how I really felt inside, to help him > believe it too, so he could hang on. He needed hope, because hope > will give you strength to continue on. Hope is the opposite of > depression and defeat. Many times I think I was assuring myself along > with him. > > I'm a sufferer of migraines too. I took Imitrex 12 years ago, for the > first time, and reacted severely, ending up in critical care at the > hospital, having had a mild stroke and damaging my heart. Life has > never been the same. Oddly, it cured my migraines for few years, and > instead of having them 2-3 times a week, I now only have them about > once a month. I get the dizziness, nausea (sometimes with vomiting), > tunnel vision, excruciating pain, etc. too. So, I totally understand > how disabling they can be. Do you take anything for them? If I can > catch them early, I can take something to head them off. But, I have > to be careful, because so many things upset my heart now. I also have > Fibromyalgia, so have constant pain. I totally understand what you > mean about chronic pain. It does wear one down. So you have my > empathy. (((another hug))) > > My husband also did not " get " OCD, and often thought our son was > acting out. That in spite of having it himself. (Although, he denies > he has it. That in spite of many therapists saying he does.) I had > to educate him. And it took a long time. But, we finally got there. > Is your husband open to reading a book about it? It could remove > some of the family stress, I imagine, if he were willing. Stress and > OCD never go well together. Not that any of us can live completely > stress free, but lowering the stress level can only help your son. We > also learned how to blame the OCD, rather than our son. That put us > all on the same side, against the OCD (like you did with your pact). > > One thing that might help is for him to read and understand that OCD > is a neurobiological disorder. It is part of the anatomy and > physiology of the brain. The brain of someone with OCD, functions > differently than someone without it. They can control the behavior a > bit, usually in situations away from home, where they are embarrassed > by their behavior. So, I can understand why it might confuse your > husband. But that control takes a toll. And generally when they come > home, they let it all out. Home is where they are safe to just " be " , > without fear of being made fun of, or feeling unloved. So, we as > family members generally see the worst of it. > > I know from our son (Josh, now 16) that playing video games was a > relief for him, when his OCD was especially bad. Having anything that > can keep their brain occupied, so they are able to shut the OCD out > somewhat, is helpful. When our son has been in crisis, which has > happened as OCD waxed and waned, video games where a HUGE help. > > Our son had a lot of rituals that he did because things needed to feel > " just right " . They seemed to be the easiest for him to overcome when > he started his ERP. The stuff with anxiety connected to it, was > hardest. But, even with the easier stuff, it does raise the level of > stress they feel, when they start confronting it. Our son used to > groan out loud at times, because it was bothering him. But, with > time, . . Much less time than we expected, it got better. There are > many things, he worked on that no longer bother him at all. And > others, that didn't go completely away, are so mild, that he is able > to ignore them. > > Does your son say what he loves about some of his compulsions? Our > son hated his. He wanted rid of the rituals that took up so much of > his time, and controlled him. It might be hard for your son to fight > them, it he doesn't dislike them. > > It is common for more than one anxiety disorder to exist. Our son was > also having panic attacks at one point, along with his OCD and GAD. > > I was told once that the difference between OCD and GAD is that OCD's > " intrusive thoughts " are irrational, whereas GAD's thoughts have a > probability of happening, but are very exaggerated in their minds, so > the perceive the risk as being much larger than it is. They are > treated differently too. OCD thoughts are either confronted and > " talked back " to. Or another method is for them to recognize it as an > irrational OCD thought, then choose to disregard it, not giving it any > of your concern. It is often compared to junk email. You see it and > know it is junk, so you delete it. GAD thoughts are treated with > realistic thinking. Then you can have phobias too, which our son also > has. He has a phobia of spiders. It gets complicated and is best > sorted out by someone who understands and treats anxiety disorders. > > I've also been told by doctors that kids with anxiety disorders are > often immature. They mature later than kids without anxiety > disorders. They get there, it just takes them longer. And I've got > to say, that has been the case with our son. We just learned to be > patient and work with him as best we could. He also slept with a > light on in his room, until he was 15. When he worked it out, he was > ready to move on. He chose when it was time, and that made it much > easier on all of us. He also rode a bike later than most kids, and > learned to swim later than most kids. But, he eventually got there. > > Never worry about the length of your post. The important thing is > that you get feedback to your concerns and questions, and that you are > supported. ) > > As far as where to look for qualified therapists. . .the > ocfoundation.ocfoundation.<WBR>org, has listings for individual states, > > Check there, but be willing to question them to make sure they know > what they are doing. The OC foundation does not check them out. Make > sure that they don't only use CBT, but more importantly, they must use > and understand ERP (exposure and response prevention). > > Also check anxiety clinics. Because OCD is an anxiety disorder, > anxiety clinics often understand it and treat it successfully. > > If you have any OCD support groups in your state. Contact them and > ask them for refereneces. They often know who the good people are, > that understand OCD. > > I often interviewed therapists over the phone. That saved on time, > money, and precious appointments (which are often limited, per year). > Ask them of their success rate with treating others with OCD. > > There are great books out there, that can help you understand OCD > better. It sounds like you have already been doing some reading. > Learning about OCD helped us sooooooo much. Some of our favorite > books are. . . > > What to do when your Child has Obsessive-CompulsivWhat to do when > Pinto Wagner Ph.D. > > Freeing Your Child from Obsessive-CompulsivFreeing Your Child from Obsessive- > > Helping Your Child With Ocd: A Workbook for Parents of Children With > Obsessive-CompulsivObsessive-Compulsiv<WBR>e Disorder by Lee Fitzgibbon > > Talking Back to OCD by March > > The last two are workbooks that walk you through CBT and ERP. Some > have tried in on their own, at home, when they were unable to find a > therapist near them. We tried that, but found it much easier to use a > therapist. > > Some things you can do with your insurance also, is to ask them to > give you a " single case agreement " with someone that does not take > your insurance. We had to do that with our insurance company. Our > son's therapist started taking insurance, just not ours. I had to > explain that the in-network docs that our insurance provided, did not > specialize in the treatment of OCD, AND they did not use or understand > ERP. Our insurance company worked with us and allowed us to see our > son's therapist, treating him as if he were in-network. > > Please feel free to ask me and the group any questions. So many have > been through the hoops and can share our experiences. > > You are right, it can become a vicious cycle. It's a matter of > learning how to break the cycle and heading towards wellness. It can > get better. It usually takes time, but it's attainable. Keep hope. > > Hugs, > BJ > > > **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot > 5 Travel Deals! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://\ travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Hi BJ, Things are so much better. He is back to his old self. Gosh that was a terrible experience. The Clonidine is actually a blood pressure med, but they use it for Tourettes. He just had a bad reaction to it. She said he was the first kid that ever responded that way. We've decided to hold off on TS med, since he can control the tics. We've not deiced what to do about the OCD. That is actually giving him more problems that the TS. it really slows him down, although he is almost 12, so how much of slow is OCD and how much is pre teen? We've got an appt with a Dr Dec 22 with the ped neurologist. We decided to do this since he never had a full neurological exam. Today was so much better, I hope you had a great day BJ, You know I didn't realize how mild Micah's tics were until I saw (with the help of Clonidine) what they could be. Hope you're having a good migraine day, storms moving across the Midwest, spent the day in bed today, but better tonight. Digi Pen classes.....Micah would love that. I'm going to check into for him. ERP/CBT......I have soooooo much to learn!! I'm guessing he's hoarding....clothing tags, thread, pencil tips, empty water bottles. He says they have meaning to him, but they're trash, so I'm guessing that falls into the hoarding category. Interviewing therapist.....it would be so great if you could send me the list of questions you used. I have no idea what to ask them. Thanks for all your help and kind words BJ, and the hugs!! I sure needed them. It means a lot! Mom to Micah 11 (Tourette Syndrome and OCD), 23, 30 And Grandma to Chloe 6, Colton 5, Greta 2, and 3mos. In a message dated 11/3/2008 9:00:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, BJClosner@... writes: Oh, <heavy sigh>, I got tears in my eyes thinking of what your poor son is going through. It breaks my heart. No wonder you spent all weekend in tears. (((((you))))all weekend in tears. (((((you little. Why did the doc take him off of that medication? I'm not familiar with it,. .Is it for TS? Our son's tics are minor in comparison. Some vocal stuff, mostly . ..throat clearing, quiet grunts, sometimes quiet squeaks. The docs, over the years, have come up with different diagnosis', so not sure what to believe. Some said TS, others said OCD tics. <shrug> Not sure. It is frustrating how long the wait can be to get into someone who specializes in the treatment of OCD. I remember that wait. . It seemed forever. That is GREAT news that your husband is doing some reading. It will help him to understand. Yay! I hear you, on the migraine thing. I try to just lie down in a dark room and ride them out, since even cutting a Vicadin into pieces and taking a quarter can make my heart act up. Unfortunately, they don't always hit when I'm at home and can take that option. That's when I try to head them off with the Vicadin and ride out the heart stuff. Okay. . Eeeeeek to the hair falling out thing! I would quit that med too. You know, with the health stuff, you just do the best you can, as I'm sure you know. Life seldom turns out how you think it might. Took me some time to develop that attitude, but it's easier to deal with that way. Have you tried any physical therapy? I see a PT for my Fibro and my left sided weakness. She does some cranial manipulations that seem to help with the migraines. Just a thought. Oh, that is so cool, . My Josh loves video games and has been teaching himself programming since he was 7. He is now 16 and taking some classes through a vocational school that offers DigiPen classes, where he receives college credits. The DigiPen Institute is a school that teaches game programming. ) He loves it! And with his analytical OCD mind, it works with it, instead of against it. ERP is exposure and response prevention. It is part of CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). It is a specific type of therapy where they are exposed to those things that cause them to do rituals. They gain control over the ritual that way, and it can make the need to do it go away. It desensitizes them to it. It can literally make physical changes to the brain, by doing the therapy (since OCD is a neurobiological disorder). We went to therapists for years, who tried many things, but none of it helped. It is also the only proven therapy to work with OCD. This is the only thing that has helped our son. He also had problems with lining up drawers, etc. When he first saw the therapist, they made a hierarchy list of all his rituals. Then they put them in order from least bothersome to most upsetting. They started at the bottom of the list and worked their way up. They gain confidence as they overcome the easier stuff, so they can take on the harder stuff. For instance, our son would constantly check drawers to make sure they were shut. His exposure homework was to leave drawers ajar throughout the house. He had to tolerate them, and sometimes he would even groan out loud (for the first couple of days), but eventually, he ceased to care. It's amazing! I wonder if Micah likes the feeling when he does his rituals/compulsionsrituals/compulsions<WBR>, because it makes it anxiety go away. But, with OCD, that is only temporary. It comes back, as the brain repeats the thought, which in turn repeats the ritual. It's like a brain hiccup. The sad thing is, the more you give into it, the more the OCD grows. It sounds like he is hoarding. Our son is a hoarder too. He once told me if he throws something away, he feels like he is killing it. They can get an emotional attachment to things and have a hard time parting with them. Hoarding is OCD, but it's been explained to me that is " a different flavor " of OCD. So, it's somewhat different from other OCD things. With interviewing therapists, I would just call and ask if the therapist could call me back. Most will do a phone consult, for free. If the receptionist tried to put me off, I would politely insist that I would prefer to talk to the doctor. If they are a good doctor, (someone you would want to go to), they will not be offended. You can tell a lot over the phone, about how they will work out as a therapist. I had a list of questions prepared that I referred to while I was talking to them. If you'd like, I can send it to you. Let me know. ) Big Hugs, . I'm so glad you are here. Praying for the specialist to get you in soon. BJ **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. 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Guest guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi BJ, Teen verses OCD.....I'm finding that when he doesn't want to do something he says " I'm sorry but my OCD is keeping me from doing it. " Is he milking OCD for all its worth, or is it truly getting in his way. Its so hard to tell. Micah's a great kid, but if he can get out of chores, and still walk with his allowance he do it in a second! He loves to be babied. Went to Digipen! How great! They have a summer program for 5-7 grade, thought I'd contact them and see if its available online. I'm sure Micah would love to know what your son did to teach himself. Thanks for asking. In a message dated 11/6/2008 11:35:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, BJClosner@... writes: I'm glad he is doing better, . What an awful experience. Boy, that is the million dollar question. . What is OCD, and what is teen. lol You would think it could be simple and they might be able to tell you, once they are able to recognize their OCD symptoms, but for our son, some of it has been there so long that it has become habit, and it can be a little tricky figuring it out when it's something that has been a part of them, their whole life. There is a DigiPen Institute, that has an online website. Here is the link . . . _https://www.https://www._ (https://www.digipen.edu/) I'm not sure if they offer classes over the internet, but suspect if they did, it would be after high school. Josh is taking them through a vocational high school, that offers them to 11th and 12th graders. They can earn college credits from the classes. We are homeschoolers and were never able to find any computer programming classes for younger kids (over the years - very frustrating)younger kids (over the a passion for it at a young age. He started teaching himself at 7 years of age. Since we were never able to find classes, he taught himself from books. There is always that, as an option. If you are interested, I can ask our son what books might be helpful for you son. Let me know. Sorry you had a bad <health> day, . <:o/ I will send the therapist questions to your private email. Hugs, BJ **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://\ searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Great! Thanks so much BJ, In a message dated 11/7/2008 12:26:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, BJClosner@... writes: Wow, that is awesome, . I didn't realize they had a program for younger kids. I haven't looked at their website at all, just looked it up for you. Glad you found that! Josh, LOVES his classes with DigiPen. I will ask Josh about the books, and send the into to you privately. ) BJ **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://\ searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Wow, that is awesome, . I didn't realize they had a program for younger kids. I haven't looked at their website at all, just looked it up for you. Glad you found that! Josh, LOVES his classes with DigiPen. I will ask Josh about the books, and send the into to you privately. ) BJ > > Hi BJ, > Teen verses OCD.....I'm finding that when he doesn't want to do something he > says " I'm sorry but my OCD is keeping me from doing it. " Is he milking OCD > for all its worth, or is it truly getting in his way. Its so hard to tell. > > Micah's a great kid, but if he can get out of chores, and still walk with > his allowance he do it in a second! > He loves to be babied. > > Went to Digipen! How great! They have a summer program for 5-7 grade, > thought I'd contact them and see if its available online. > > I'm sure Micah would love to know what your son did to teach himself. Thanks > for asking. > > > > In a message dated 11/6/2008 11:35:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, > BJClosner@... writes: > > I'm glad he is doing better, . What an awful experience. > > Boy, that is the million dollar question. . What is OCD, and what is > teen. lol You would think it could be simple and they might be able > to tell you, once they are able to recognize their OCD symptoms, but > for our son, some of it has been there so long that it has become > habit, and it can be a little tricky figuring it out when it's > something that has been a part of them, their whole life. > > There is a DigiPen Institute, that has an online website. Here is the > link . . . > > _https://www.https://www._ (https://www.digipen.edu/) > > I'm not sure if they offer classes over the internet, but suspect if > they did, it would be after high school. Josh is taking them through > a vocational high school, that offers them to 11th and 12th graders. > They can earn college credits from the classes. We are homeschoolers > and were never able to find any computer programming classes for > younger kids (over the years - very frustrating)younger kids (over the > a passion for it at a young age. He started teaching himself at 7 > years of age. Since we were never able to find classes, he taught > himself from books. There is always that, as an option. If you are > interested, I can ask our son what books might be helpful for you son. > Let me know. > > Sorry you had a bad <health> day, . <:o/ > > I will send the therapist questions to your private email. > > Hugs, > BJ > > > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://\ searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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