question about cleaning obsession

[Guest guest]

Has any of your kids gone from the washing hands and showering, keeping

their room immaculate, squeaky clean, to not showering, not caring

about how they look(untidy hair, wearing the same sweatshirt not

allowing you to wash it), keeping their room dirty. etc?

His psychiatrist thinks my son is depressed, he goes to therapy

sessions, but refuses to really cooperate. He is on Luvox 150 morning,

150 at night. But I'm not sure if he is taking it the way he should, he

is 17 and refuses for me to handle that. I was giving him his everyday

dosage, but now he has all the bottle of medicine so I can't keep

track any more.

Please, any suggestions, thoughts????

It's like he made a complete switch from white to black.

Sil.

[Guest guest]

Hi Silvia,

My son is also 17 so I know the challenges a teen can bring on all

fronts, but also with medication. It's good in one regard that he

take responsibility for this because ultimately it is his, but

understand your concerns and I would share them. I would try to be

neutral on this and just let him know you are just concerned that he

not forget. You might offer him a pill box with the days marked so

he can keep track, and maybe you too , we do this and it really

helps, we both can see if a dose is forgotten without discussion or

nagging.

Re the change in cleanliness, we did not experience this but I have

heard from others who have experienced it. It's can be switching the

obsession so they don't have to deal with it, or sometimes it

progresses to the point where they can't bear to touch themselves and

get contaminated. On the other hand if you suspect depression this

would fit too.

The not cooperating in therapy is pretty typical of the age. Really

tough and one of those things that has to evolve sometimes. The

maturity factor is huge. If you have anything you can leveredge to

enlist cooperation, ie priviledges, but I would focus on expectations

and behavior more than actual ERP stuff necessarily because sometimes

they just aren't ready for it yet.

It's hard, I know. I don't have any really good answers other than

focus on who your son is, who he was and what worked in the past

to " inspire " him and engage his will. In the end it is their

disorder, and unfortunately as the parent you often have to play the

waiting game for them to get on board with it. As I say just focus

on the parenting part perhaps more than the OCD, that tends to drag

them down already and makes us (the parents) just that much more of a

negative in their lives!

Hang in there.

Barb

>

> Has any of your kids gone from the washing hands and showering,

keeping

> their room immaculate, squeaky clean, to not showering, not caring

> about how they look(untidy hair, wearing the same sweatshirt not

> allowing you to wash it), keeping their room dirty. etc?

> His psychiatrist thinks my son is depressed, he goes to therapy

> sessions, but refuses to really cooperate. He is on Luvox 150

morning,

> 150 at night. But I'm not sure if he is taking it the way he

should, he

> is 17 and refuses for me to handle that. I was giving him his

everyday

> dosage, but now he has all the bottle of medicine so I can't

keep

> track any more.

>

> Please, any suggestions, thoughts????

> It's like he made a complete switch from white to black.

>

> Sil.

>

[Guest guest]

Some things you said, Barb, made me think. . . .

Josh went through a phase with his therapy where he was doing exposure

to contaminate things. He got to a point that he told me he didn't

care anymore, because at that point, the whole house was so

contaminated we would have to burn it down and start over, for it to

feel right again. I'll have to ask him if he still feels that

strongly about it, because he felt VERY strongly about it then. I

think he was a bit disgusted, since his OCD was still trying to keep

track with what was contaminated in the house and what was not, at

that point. It was like he was " giving it up " , you know. . The OCD's

rigid demands, and it was hard to let go of, which sort of made him

have an attitude about it. Maybe it was an adjustment period for him,

learning to accept what he was working so hard to accomplish.

I can only imagine how hard it is to let go of some of these things

that they've done for so many years, which feels natural and right to

them because it is what they are used to.

With your son, Sil, you say he isn't participating in therapy, so I'm

wondering if he is having some changes due to meds. Has he been on

the Luvox for very long?

The medication often causes them to become uninhibited to the point

that they don't care as much, do you think that might be contributing,

considering what you are witnessing in his behavior? Or do you think

maybe he is letting it go (the rigid OCD need to have everything

perfect) because of the medication working, kind of like our son did

with the therapy?

Does he seem really depressed to you? OCD often causes depression as

they endure day after day. Our son got really depressed when his OCD

was bad. But once the OCD was better under control, his depression

lifted. Then there is always the concern that the medication can be

causing the depression. If you think it is depression alone causing

the problems, was he depressed before meds? Or has it changed in any

way since adding meds?

Sorry for all the questions. .lol. . Just trying to kind of sort it

out in my head.

We do the pill box thing here too. It helps us both keep track and

works great. If he is willing to do that, Sil, that could help you

have piece of mind.

I know one thing, you add teenage stuff to OCD, and it's adds another

realm of difficulty to it all.

BJ

> >

> > Has any of your kids gone from the washing hands and showering,

> keeping

> > their room immaculate, squeaky clean, to not showering, not caring

> > about how they look(untidy hair, wearing the same sweatshirt not

> > allowing you to wash it), keeping their room dirty. etc?

> > His psychiatrist thinks my son is depressed, he goes to therapy

> > sessions, but refuses to really cooperate. He is on Luvox 150

> morning,

> > 150 at night. But I'm not sure if he is taking it the way he

> should, he

> > is 17 and refuses for me to handle that. I was giving him his

> everyday

> > dosage, but now he has all the bottle of medicine so I can't

> keep

> > track any more.

> >

> > Please, any suggestions, thoughts????

> > It's like he made a complete switch from white to black.

> >

> > Sil.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi BJ,

He has been in Luvox since May, but his behavior has changed since mid

September. He turned aggressive, defiant.

We switched doctor because I didn't feel he was doing much for Mitch and

he didn't want to go there anymore. Still with this new therapist he

doesn't want to collaborate either.

Since mid October he switched to no showers, he only cleans himself with

wet paper and fills up 2 jugs of gallons of water to get cleaned with

that. He walks very slow.

Before meds he was very depressed, then he got better. Now his

psychiatrist believes he is depressed again...... I just don't know what

to think or do.

He doesn't seem depressed to me like before, but depression not always

shows the same way right?

Like he doesn't go anywhere, he only sleeps, goes in the internet and

watches TV.

He absolutely refuses to talk about OCD. He knows I'm reading a book

about it and his pediatrician asked him to read it as well but he

refuses to do it.

How can I help him??????????

Sil

svdbyhislove wrote:

>

> Some things you said, Barb, made me think. . . .

>

> Josh went through a phase with his therapy where he was doing exposure

> to contaminate things. He got to a point that he told me he didn't

> care anymore, because at that point, the whole house was so

> contaminated we would have to burn it down and start over, for it to

> feel right again. I'll have to ask him if he still feels that

> strongly about it, because he felt VERY strongly about it then. I

> think he was a bit disgusted, since his OCD was still trying to keep

> track with what was contaminated in the house and what was not, at

> that point. It was like he was " giving it up " , you know. . The OCD's

> rigid demands, and it was hard to let go of, which sort of made him

> have an attitude about it. Maybe it was an adjustment period for him,

> learning to accept what he was working so hard to accomplish.

>

> I can only imagine how hard it is to let go of some of these things

> that they've done for so many years, which feels natural and right to

> them because it is what they are used to.

>

> With your son, Sil, you say he isn't participating in therapy, so I'm

> wondering if he is having some changes due to meds. Has he been on

> the Luvox for very long?

>

> The medication often causes them to become uninhibited to the point

> that they don't care as much, do you think that might be contributing,

> considering what you are witnessing in his behavior? Or do you think

> maybe he is letting it go (the rigid OCD need to have everything

> perfect) because of the medication working, kind of like our son did

> with the therapy?

>

> Does he seem really depressed to you? OCD often causes depression as

> they endure day after day. Our son got really depressed when his OCD

> was bad. But once the OCD was better under control, his depression

> lifted. Then there is always the concern that the medication can be

> causing the depression. If you think it is depression alone causing

> the problems, was he depressed before meds? Or has it changed in any

> way since adding meds?

>

> Sorry for all the questions. .lol. . Just trying to kind of sort it

> out in my head.

>

> We do the pill box thing here too. It helps us both keep track and

> works great. If he is willing to do that, Sil, that could help you

> have piece of mind.

>

> I know one thing, you add teenage stuff to OCD, and it's adds another

> realm of difficulty to it all.

>

> BJ

>

>

> > >

> > > Has any of your kids gone from the washing hands and showering,

> > keeping

> > > their room immaculate, squeaky clean, to not showering, not caring

> > > about how they look(untidy hair, wearing the same sweatshirt not

> > > allowing you to wash it), keeping their room dirty. etc?

> > > His psychiatrist thinks my son is depressed, he goes to therapy

> > > sessions, but refuses to really cooperate. He is on Luvox 150

> > morning,

> > > 150 at night. But I'm not sure if he is taking it the way he

> > should, he

> > > is 17 and refuses for me to handle that. I was giving him his

> > everyday

> > > dosage, but now he has all the bottle of medicine so I can't

> > keep

> > > track any more.

> > >

> > > Please, any suggestions, thoughts????

> > > It's like he made a complete switch from white to black.

> > >

> > > Sil.

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, it does sound like depression. I've never understood, though, how

you can be on an antidepressant and later end up depressed, but it

happens. I do wonder if he's been taking his Luvox.

>

> Has any of your kids gone from the washing hands and showering,

keeping

> their room immaculate, squeaky clean, to not showering, not caring

[Guest guest]

Oh, just read about the wet paper and water jugs and the walking.

Maybe it is an OCD problem, not depression or not " just " depression.

Does he talk much with the psychiatrist?

>

> Hi BJ,

> He has been in Luvox since May, but his behavior has changed since

mid

> September. He turned aggressive, defiant.

> We switched doctor because I didn't feel he was doing much for Mitch

and

> he didn't want to go there anymore. Still with this new therapist

[Guest guest]

Hi Silvia,

Reading your new post it sounds very much like our son, with the

aggression and defiance. Added to the changes in rituals/OCD stuff,

it sounds to me like it may very well be a combo of everything -

medication too high/too low/not taken, OCD severity up ability to

cope with it down, depression due to the fact that life sucks with

OCD, or serotonin based depression(needing more). Also, seasonal

change, lack of light affects mood and severity of brain chemistry

based disorders for many, the case in our house, and we have to

increase antidepressant medication.

Teen challenges, and lack of ability to cope with it all factors in

in a big way I find. The need/want to deal with it themselves, to be

independent, when they probably actually feel very " needy " , on a

sinking ship, easier to just go down, don't want help, leave me

alone, or " it's all your fault, or someones... " . Ours would never

talk about it either and for a long time spent his days at the tv,

computer just distracting himself from the OCD.

At some point if it is really bad you may need to push him to see

someone, at least for the medication piece to be sorted. On the

other hand sometimes you need to just leave them to bottom out to a

point where they will ask for help, or be desperate enough to be

ready to change things. It's a really tough balancing act with this

age to let them know you are there for them when they are ready, give

them " space " , but not leave them alone with it all. No win

sometimes, and when they are really struggling there can be lots of

lashing out.

Ours has said since that he was never depressed he just hated his

life, or not having one, and lashed out at us, the safest ones in his

life. He has also said that even at his most ill and when he was

awful, to me in particular, that he always knew I cared and was on

his side, even though he would accuse me otherwise. The disorder can

twist them up so bad they don't know what to believe anymore, and are

just fighting to " survive " the day.

Just thought I'd give you the bit of insight I have gained about our

situation, albeit after the fact. Don't know if any of it fits for

you and your son. I can certainly empathize with you on the not

knowing what is going on for sure, and not knowing how to get your

son moving toward recovery.

Hugs to you!

Barb

>

> Hi BJ,

> He has been in Luvox since May, but his behavior has changed since

mid

> September. He turned aggressive, defiant.

> We switched doctor because I didn't feel he was doing much for

Mitch and

> he didn't want to go there anymore. Still with this new therapist

he

> doesn't want to collaborate either.

> Since mid October he switched to no showers, he only cleans himself

with

> wet paper and fills up 2 jugs of gallons of water to get cleaned

[Guest guest]

Hi BJ, Barb everybody that replied to me.

I guess I didn't explain that until recently, 2 weeks ago, he started

taking his medication on his own, before I would leave in a container

the pills of the day. So I knew he was taking it fine.

Which makes me think now that it's probably the medication that has him

like this. he definitely sleeps too much so he's probably depressed.

He will see the psychiatrist in two weeks, and he mentioned before he

should probably change the medication. I just have to hope Mitch agrees

to this, because according to him this med is helping him just fine.

His therapist tried to do CBT/ERP but he refuses, he just wants to talk.

Then when he's with the therapist he doesn't want to talk. That's what I

mean when I say he doesn't want to cooperate.

At this point I feel if I take him to a different therapist he's just

going to do the same.

Yes it's rough I want to help him, but he doesn't let me. Besides we

have the defiant, rude, disrespectful part!!!!

Thanks for all your ideas, at least I know I'm not alone......

Hugs to everybody.

svdbyhislove wrote:

>

> Is that the only SSRI he has tried, Sil? Sounds like he is 4 months

> into it, and IF he's been taking it regularly (which seems it's hard

> to know, since he is not letting you know), I'm wondering if it is

> starting to really get into his system, and he is not tolerating it well.

>

> Yet, I remember a therapist telling me once the men/boys often express

> depression in the form of anger. That was true with my husband, but

> not our son. So, if he is depressed and not taking the meds that

> could be part of the problem too.

>

> The cleaning stuff sure sounds like OCD at work. . . Unreasonable,

> irrational, but rigid demands about how it has to be.

>

> The sleeping a lot can also a sign of depression. But, it could also

> be him trying to escape the OCD.

>

> Our son was on the computer and video games a lot when he was bad,

> trying to find something to tune the OCD out.

>

> It's really hard to try to figure out what is going on, since you

> don't know if he is taking his meds. That's got to be so frustrating

> for you. What Barb shared has been our experience with a teenage son

> too. They are shoving you away, yet needing your help and wanting you

> near too. Our son was pretty cooperative when he was in bad shape and

> needing help, but once he was better, he started exhibiting more

> typical teenage behavior. I guess for him that is good, because it's

> a sign he is doing well enough to act like the typical teen. Still,

> it's that age is a hard time for teens and parents alike.

>

> And our son also went through a phase (before his current therapist

> who knows and understands OCD) where he would not talk about this OCD

> either. Talking about it brought it to mind, and he was doing his

> best to avoid it at all cost.

>

> Sil, is his current therapist using CBT/ERP? Our son wouldn't

> cooperate with talk therapy at all, but was totally onboard with

> CBT/ERP. He didn't want to talk about feelings, specifically his

> feelings, at all. But, when he found there was a plan of attack, he

> was okay with that.

>

> I can't remember, you said his doctor thinks he is depressed, but has

> he suggested trying anything different?

>

> Hugs to you. <sigh> You are in a rough situation.

>

> BJ

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Has any of your kids gone from the washing hands and showering,

> > > > keeping

> > > > > their room immaculate, squeaky clean, to not showering, not caring

> > > > > about how they look(untidy hair, wearing the same sweatshirt not

> > > > > allowing you to wash it), keeping their room dirty. etc?

> > > > > His psychiatrist thinks my son is depressed, he goes to therapy

> > > > > sessions, but refuses to really cooperate. He is on Luvox 150

> > > > morning,

> > > > > 150 at night. But I'm not sure if he is taking it the way he

> > > > should, he

> > > > > is 17 and refuses for me to handle that. I was giving him his

> > > > everyday

> > > > > dosage, but now he has all the bottle of medicine so I can't

> > > > keep

> > > > > track any more.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please, any suggestions, thoughts????

> > > > > It's like he made a complete switch from white to black.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sil.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >