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Re: PANDAS

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Hi Annie, there are some members here with kids with PANDAS. You can

also search back through the archived messages of the group for

PANDAS, should turn up a LOT. And there is probably something in the

FILES section of our group too.

Some people have had a bit of success with ongoing antibiotics for

PANDAS but I think most end up on the same medication as non-PANDAS

(SSRIs). So far as therapy, it would be the same also, CBT with

ERP.

Also, sometimes if it's PANDAS the OCD will stop or almost stop after

a few weeks. Can return with future strep exposures.

All I can think of right now, I'm sure others can tell you a lot

more. So he had strep before the OCD? Sorry, hard to remember " what

is what " with each person.

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/pandas_overview.htm

http://intramural.nimh.nih.gov/pdn/web.htm

>

> Does anyone have knowledge or experience on treating the PANDAS

type of OCD?

> We suspect this is what our son has but our pediatrician was

clueless about

> it and I am not sure what it would mean for his treatment options.

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> Annie

>

>

>

>

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Annie,

We suspected PANDAS and were angry that our pediatrician and the

neurologist he referred us to both dismissed our concerns. But the

school nurse told us several kids in the district had been diagnosed

with it. We insisted that the neurologist order a strep titer test.

(If yours won't - ask him/her to explain in writing why they feel it's

not necessary - I bet they'll end up ordering the test for you).

Ours came back negative. But at least now we know and we have a

baseline should symptoms come back strong (our son developed a severe

tic after his two strep infections and went away after his body fully

recovered).

A strep titer test will give you data. It may tell you whether you have

to live in morbid fear of strep or not. But like others have said, the

treatments will be the same as it is for regular OCD (therapy, possibly

SSRI medication, lots of patience).

We were appalled at the lack of support we recieved from the medical

comunity. Our therapist has been our lifesaver.

>

> There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book about a

subject

> who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type of IV

> transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

>

>

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> >

> > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book about a

> subject

> > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type of IV

> > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> >

> >

>

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Okay, I know I have asked this before, but I never got any clear answers. Does

anyone know if the titers have to be elevated at all times? Or only during an

active strep infection?

Hugs

judy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 1:09:04 PM

Subject: Re: PANDAS

> >

> > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book about a

> subject

> > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type of IV

> > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> >

> >

>

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I remember you asking this before, Judy, and wondering about the

answer too.

I wonder if that would be a good question for Dr. Geller, since I

don't recall anyone answering.

How was your Thanksgiving, Judy? How'd the kids do?

Hugs,

BJ

> > >

> > > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book about a

> > subject

> > > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type of IV

> > > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

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From my understanding (my son has PANDAS) it is only durning an active strep

infection

Re: PANDAS

I remember you asking this before, Judy, and wondering about the

answer too.

I wonder if that would be a good question for Dr. Geller, since I

don't recall anyone answering.

How was your Thanksgiving, Judy? How'd the kids do?

Hugs,

BJ

> > >

> > > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book about a

> > subject

> > > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type of IV

> > > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

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Now I'm the one who's confused. I thought I had read that the titer

test needs to be done 3-6 weeks after the infection. That initially

your antibodies ramped up to fight the strep but then due to

molecular mimicry, they also went after the basal ganglia and didn't

come off of high alert/attack mode even tho they had wiped out the

strep. Eventually, yes, they go back to normal levels, but only after

they've gone to work on the brain. And the next time you get strep,

the OCD gets worse, because the antibodies have already trained

themselves to go back and attack the basal ganglia again.

We had our test done 3 weeks after the rapid strep test, thinking

that if it was PANDAS, the titer level would still be high even

though the infection was gone. Am I wrong on this? If I am, I might

be wrong to assume my son doesn't have PANDAS. Sure would help

explain why his severe tic has only happened the two times he's had

strep and why, 5 weeks after the strep, it has gone away.

BJ's right. Judy, do you have time to post a question to Dr. Geller?

I could use some clarification on this too.

> > > >

> > > > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book

about a

> > > subject

> > > > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type

of IV

> > > > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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You've all gotten me confused now!!  My daughter had a really crazy period with

intense bizarre OCD thoughts.  We arranged for a consult at a top university

Child Study Center.  Right before we went, my daughter got a case of cellulitis

and had to take a course of antibiotics.  After that, her off the charts type

OCD calmed down.  I mentioned this to the dr. who did the consultation and she

asked if my daughter had had strep.  I said that she'd never had it, but my son

(her twin) had recently had strep and does get it.  The specialist told me to

have my pediatrician do the blood tests to check for the two strep blood titres

and sure enough they were quite elevated.  From what I understood this to mean,

it showed that my daughter had actually had strep around the time of her sudden

intense bizarre episode of OCD fears even though we hadn't known it.  The fact

that she had to go on antibiotics to cure the cellulitis coincided with her OCD

levels going down seems to indicate that she has strep related OCD.  I am not

sure if she actually qualifies for the strict definition of PANDAS.  The strep

titres eventually should go down as they are measuring the presence of

antibodies to strep that arise when a child has strep.  Once the strep is

cured, with time, the titres should go back to normal.  I also know that my

daughter gets strep without any physical symptoms because when I asked my

pediatrician about the possibility of putting my da

ughter on antibiotics prophylactically, she said we should first do a strep test

to see if she had it.  Sure enough, it was positive!!

From what I understand this all means is that if my daughter shows an

exacerbation of OCD symptoms, I should bring her in for a strep test to see if

this might be causing it.  Other than that, she still needs CBT and meds like

anyone else.

Re: PANDAS

> >

> > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book about a

> subject

> > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type of IV

> > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> >

> >

>

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Hello Judy,

 

My understanding it that the answer can vary with the individual child and the

strain of strep. Some PANDAS children don't get high titers (the " normal "

response). How fast titers drop after infection is also variable.

The absence of specific biological markers for PANDAS complicates diagnosis.

Many lay people and even physicians are under the mistaken impression that

elevated Anti Streptolysin O or Anti Strep DNAse B titers are markers for

PANDAS. All these antibodies indicate however is that a child has had a strep

infection and mounted a normal immunological response. (from

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/rbp/v26n4/en_a04v26n4.pdf )

So, yes, titers could offer evidence of a strep infection. If your child is one

of those that doesn't have high titers, it is my understanding that it is not

" proof " that your child doesn't have PANDAS.

Also, in some children, once PANDAS is started, ANY infectious agent can bring

about the PANDAS symptoms.  My daughter had a huge flairs ups with Fifth's

Disease, and also a viral throat infection.  I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Peggy

Subject: Re: PANDAS

To:

Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:18 PM

Now I'm the one who's confused. I thought I had read that the titer

test needs to be done 3-6 weeks after the infection. That initially

your antibodies ramped up to fight the strep but then due to

molecular mimicry, they also went after the basal ganglia and didn't

come off of high alert/attack mode even tho they had wiped out the

strep. Eventually, yes, they go back to normal levels, but only after

they've gone to work on the brain. And the next time you get strep,

the OCD gets worse, because the antibodies have already trained

themselves to go back and attack the basal ganglia again.

We had our test done 3 weeks after the rapid strep test, thinking

that if it was PANDAS, the titer level would still be high even

though the infection was gone. Am I wrong on this? If I am, I might

be wrong to assume my son doesn't have PANDAS. Sure would help

explain why his severe tic has only happened the two times he's had

strep and why, 5 weeks after the strep, it has gone away.

BJ's right. Judy, do you have time to post a question to Dr. Geller?

I could use some clarification on this too.

> > > >

> > > > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book

about a

> > > subject

> > > > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type

of IV

> > > > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

Peggy,

Thank you for all of this information. My son's psychologist asked me a few

weeks ago if I ever tested him for PANDAS. I told him that I did and he did not

have it. The doctor said he was certain he did.

Hugs

Judy

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I agree here. Dccument the chlds' reacton to any illness. My son is on

daily antibiotics and still gets the PANDAS reacton after lllness or

exposure to strep. It is awful during the school year. The PANDAS

episode goes on for months after exposure. The moods, anger, tics,

obsessions, and ADD all flair up. Even meds for mood disorders don't

put a dent in it. It ususally takes about three months to heal the

part of the brain that is affected. Then he gets sick again and the

process starts again. That is why IVIG may be the only true treatment.

We have tried everything else and nothing else helps. I am looking fr

a Dr. in Ohio to try a five day steroid burst. Then proceed with the

IVIG if the steroid burst works. Otherwise we are looking at at least

12 more years of these nightmare flar ups. PANDAS doesn't seem to

resolve until adulthood. Lok up Dr. Kovasavik at web pediatrics. He is

one of the only Dr's curing the PANDAS.

> > > > >

> > > > > There was mention in the Freeing your Child from OCD book

> about a

> > > > subject

> > > > > who had PANDAS OCD and would get blood titres and some type

> of IV

> > > > > transfusions. I was wondering if anyone has done that?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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