Re: Finding raw, grass-fed cheese

[Guest guest]

This is my paranoia speaking:

I wouldn't trust imported cheese because of mad cow. I know we need to have

some trust, but I prefer dealing direct with the farmer. I don't eat

non-organic beef or beef products, and I try to get all grass-fed beef. I

suspect we aren't being told everything about mad cow in this country, and I

am convinced that it does not strike organically fed (even grain fed) or

grass fed herds. If you can be sure the cheese is from grass-fed cows, then

go for it, even if from Europe. But I suggest you make sure that they have

never been exposed to pesticide-laden food. If you get the wise traditions

magazine, it has ads in the back with sources for grass-fed raw cheese

available in the U.S., direct from the farmer.

Dana

----- Original Message -----

From: " " <R@...>

< >

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 8:07 AM

Subject: Finding raw, grass-fed cheese

> Hi all,

>

> I've been looking (and salivating) on www.igourmet.com where they have a

> huge selection of cheeses. If you click on Cheese and go down to the

> bottom, there's a subcategory for Unpasteurized. Lots to choose from

> there, but although the descriptions of the origins sound very idyllic,

> I saw no direct mention of what the cows are fed.

>

> So I called them, and the person I spoke to said that all the imported

> cheeses must be from grass-fed cows. Sounded strange to me, what do you

> think?

>

> -

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughts, Dana. Paranoia or no, I prefer to use local

foods as much as possible anyway. Will check the listings.

-

[Guest guest]

Well Sally says in NT that cheeses from Switzerland, Greece, England and

France (IIRC) are from unpastuerized milk (unless the label says

otherwise) of cows that feed on grass. They are lovely and so much better

tasting than the grass fed cheeses here in America that I have tried so

far, IMO.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:07:54 -0500 " "

<R@...> writes:

> Hi all,

>

> I've been looking (and salivating) on www.igourmet.com where they

> have a

> huge selection of cheeses. If you click on Cheese and go down to

> the

> bottom, there's a subcategory for Unpasteurized. Lots to choose

> from

> there, but although the descriptions of the origins sound very

> idyllic,

> I saw no direct mention of what the cows are fed.

>

> So I called them, and the person I spoke to said that all the

> imported

> cheeses must be from grass-fed cows. Sounded strange to me, what do

> you

> think?

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This same website has an air dried beef for sale so that sounds lovely.

Does anyone know anything about it (like the salt used as part of the

process)?

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:07:54 -0500 " "

<R@...> writes:

> Hi all,

>

> I've been looking (and salivating) on www.igourmet.com where they

> have a

> huge selection of cheeses. If you click on Cheese and go down to

> the

> bottom, there's a subcategory for Unpasteurized. Lots to choose

> from

> there, but although the descriptions of the origins sound very

> idyllic,

> I saw no direct mention of what the cows are fed.

>

> So I called them, and the person I spoke to said that all the

> imported

> cheeses must be from grass-fed cows. Sounded strange to me, what do

> you

> think?

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Well Sally says in NT that cheeses from Switzerland, Greece, England

and

> France (IIRC) are from unpastuerized milk (unless the label says

> otherwise) of cows that feed on grass.

Yes, they are tasty, but they are not technically raw. I read the

Cheese Primer Sally recommends. All these cheeses are heated at some

point in the cheese making process. I have never been able to find a

truly raw cheese (foreign or domestic).

---

This is a quote from an email to me from Rumiano (Landmark) (makers of

unsalted raw cheese):

" The milk is heat treated to 135 then cooled to 92 degrees and made

into

cheese. The temperture of the cheese making process goes no higher

than 102.

Thanks,

Baird Rumiano "

---

This is a quote from an email to me from Organic Valley (mostly grass

fed):

" Regular pasteurized cheese is processed at 161.5 degrees for 15

seconds. Our raw milk cheese is processed at 155 degrees for 15

seconds. We

choose a specific enzyme to keep in tact, when we decided on this

temperature. Any temperature above 155 degrees would kill it. The

cheese is

kept at a cool temperature as it ages for 60 days. Then the cheese is

checked for bacteria count, taste and flavor before it can be released

to the

retail market.

" We did try making a 100 percent raw milk cheese, but after the aging

process the bacteria count was too high for 30-50% of the cheese,

which

means we were having to throw out a lot of cheese. "

---

I have not been able to get Green Bank Farms to respond to my phone

calls regarding their raw goat milk cheddar and raw cow milk swiss.

Has anyone been able to get an answer from them?

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

I have heard and read (from Sally and other sources)

that most dairy herds in European countries are

pastured.

A domestic source of absolutely fantastic, raw,

grassfed cheese from Jersey cows is

www.meadowcreekdairy.com . We order from them

regularly. I like the flavor far better than any of

the imported raw cheeses I've been able to find in

stores. Prices are good, too.

I don't believe mad cow disease is caused by any

transmitted organism (like the prion that is the

current pet theory). Read " Myths and Truths About Mad

Cow Disease " at the WAPF website (in the Myths And

Truths section) for an overview about an alternative

view on what is causing mad cow disease.

Aubin

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Looking forward to corresponding with and trying Meadow Creek dairy

cheese. If it can match the flavor of my beloved (and spendy) french

morbier I will be in seventh heaven. Thanks!

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:45:36 -0800 (PST) Aubin Parrish

<aubinparrish@...> writes:

I have heard and read (from Sally and other sources)

that most dairy herds in European countries are

pastured.

A domestic source of absolutely fantastic, raw,

grassfed cheese from Jersey cows is

www.meadowcreekdairy.com . We order from them

regularly. I like the flavor far better than any of

the imported raw cheeses I've been able to find in

stores. Prices are good, too.

I don't believe mad cow disease is caused by any

transmitted organism (like the prion that is the

current pet theory). Read " Myths and Truths About Mad

Cow Disease " at the WAPF website (in the Myths And

Truths section) for an overview about an alternative

view on what is causing mad cow disease.

Aubin

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> When we were in France we actually talked to several of the

producers of

> the cheese I buy here in America and was told that the heat

processing

> never rose above 100 degrees...snip... so while these cheeses may

in

> fact be " unpasteurized " they are not " raw " as we would think of

> " unpasteurized. "

That qualifies as raw in my book. Thanks for that real life

information. I hope it is true, I love morbier too! I've emailed

Meadow Creek to find out if it is heated at all and to what temp.

>Sounds like the raw vs. unheated honey issue all over again.

Except we have to account for cow body temp (100F-110F is what I've

seen here and there) rather than hive temp as an upper limit.

Portland, OR

[Guest guest]

>They are lovely and so much better

>tasting than the grass fed cheeses here in America that I have tried so

>far, IMO.

There is a terrific variety of delicious cheeses to be had from overseas,

but unfortunately I suspect all is not entirely well over there. I

probably mentioned this here before, but until I found the WAP site and

then read NT, I pretty much couldn't eat any dairy, period. (Except for

some butter to saute my eggs, anyway.) Dairy made my asthma go through the

roof. Then I learned about the importance of feeding cows grass, and now I

can eat all the dairy I want -- and I feel better for it, too -- as long as

it's strictly grass-fed. Cheese, yoghurt, kefir, butter, etc. (Except for

raw milk, which still gives me some lactose difficulties.) But raw French

cheese still makes me wheeze and reach for my inhaler.

-

[Guest guest]

>A domestic source of absolutely fantastic, raw,

>grassfed cheese from Jersey cows is

>www.meadowcreekdairy.com . We order from them

>regularly.

I second that recommendation. Delicious! It's a dark day now when I run

out of Meadow Creek cheese and a new order hasn't come yet.

-

[Guest guest]

> I second that recommendation. Delicious! It's a dark day now when

I run

> out of Meadow Creek cheese and a new order hasn't come yet.

>

> >

> -

,

What kinds of cheeses are your favorite from Meadowcreek?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Are you suffering from Asthma?

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:26:45 -0500 Idol <Idol@...>

writes:

But raw French

cheese still makes me wheeze and reach for my inhaler.

-

[Guest guest]

>Are you suffering from Asthma?

All my life. I used to think dairy was the culprit until I found out that

grass-fed dairy, even if it's pasteurized, poses absolutely no problem at all.

-

[Guest guest]

Given what I can glean from your current diet preferences from reading

this list, I would suggest you and your girlfriend check out

www.watercure.com. You both seem to be suffering from DEHYDRATION and the

accumulated toxins/poisons as a result. Given that you are not on a raw

or nearly all raw diet, this information will be a godsend for both your

asthma and her migraines. In an earlier message I posted an actual

interview with the Dr. which distills all the info down and tells you how

to exactly go about it. I terms of diet, lots of raw fish, raw eggs, and

raw milk (all grass fed of course) will help mightily in the healing

process.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:49:34 -0500 Idol <Idol@...>

writes:

>Are you suffering from Asthma?

All my life. I used to think dairy was the culprit until I found out

that

grass-fed dairy, even if it's pasteurized, poses absolutely no problem at

all.

-

[Guest guest]

>You both seem to be suffering from DEHYDRATION and the

>accumulated toxins/poisons as a result.

I have read the interview, and I'm drinking more water as a result, but my

asthma resulted from being exposed to a lot of second-hand smoke as a young

child -- my mother smoked heavily, and during that period I often had

near-fatal attacks until she finally was able to quit.

In fact, all my life I've drunk what's generally considered an " abnormally

large " amount of water -- many, many glasses per day.

-

[Guest guest]

At 08:59 AM 2/26/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>I terms of diet, lots of raw fish, raw eggs, and

>raw milk (all grass fed of course) will help mightily in the healing

>process.

The key element in these foods is * raw fat*. That's why they are so good

in the healing process. Raw butter, cream and organic coconut and avocados

are other good sources of raw fat.

-=mark=-

[Guest guest]

At 01:09 PM 2/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>In fact, all my life I've drunk what's generally considered an " abnormally

>large " amount of water -- many, many glasses per day.

As you increase the amount of raw fats, you will likely notice a natural

decrease in the craving for many glasses of water per day. The raw fats

re-lipidize the cells making drinking water less important -less needed.

-=mark=-

[Guest guest]

Agreed

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:19:49 -0800 theta sigma <thetasig@...>

writes:

At 08:59 AM 2/26/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>I terms of diet, lots of raw fish, raw eggs, and

>raw milk (all grass fed of course) will help mightily in the healing

>process.

The key element in these foods is * raw fat*. That's why they are so

good

in the healing process. Raw butter, cream and organic coconut and

avocados

are other good sources of raw fat.

-=mark=-

[Guest guest]

When I was on a raw milk shake diet (consisting of raw goat milk, fruit

and an occasional egg) I literally drank no water. I was never thirsty

(previous to that I was always thirsty) my urine was clear and when I

returned to regular foods I never experienced the same kind of thirst

again. At the time I knew very little about raw foods and this was a

cheap way for a broke college athlete to stay strong and fit without

spending much money. Before it was over all my other fellow athletes were

doing the same thing as were many of fellow dorm mates. In fact, the

local supplier of raw milk couldn't keep up. At the time I thought it was

the raw protein that did the trick. It wasn't until several years later

that I discovered and understood the value of raw fats.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:21:35 -0800 theta sigma <thetasig@...>

writes:

At 01:09 PM 2/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>In fact, all my life I've drunk what's generally considered an

" abnormally

>large " amount of water -- many, many glasses per day.

As you increase the amount of raw fats, you will likely notice a natural

decrease in the craving for many glasses of water per day. The raw fats

re-lipidize the cells making drinking water less important -less needed.

-=mark=-

[Guest guest]

I talked to the folks at Morningland Dairy, and they said their milk

is never heated above 100 degrees during the cheesemaking process...

Becky

> When we were in France we actually talked to several of the

producers of

> the cheese I buy here in America and was told that the heat

processing

> never rose above 100 degrees. My sister, who is fluent in french,

> specifically asked over and over if the processing temp. ever got

higher

> than the body temp. of the animal. We were repeatedly told no. But

that

> was just in France, can't vouch for the other countries (although I

have

> been told that Switzerland is just as strict). I wonder what the

> definition of pasteurized is in Europe, so while these cheeses may

in

> fact be " unpasteurized " they are not " raw " as we would think of

> " unpasteurized. " Sounds like the raw vs. unheated honey issue all

over

> again.

>