Re: New here- 11 year old DD diagnosed with OCD and Anorexia

[Guest guest]

Welcome !  You have come to a great place for support as you help your

daughter cope with her anxiety and resulting compulsions.  I hope that it turns

out that your daughter doesn't have anorexia per se, but instead it was just

another OCD fixation that can be treated well with medication and behavior

therapy.  

New here- 11 year old DD diagnosed with OCD and

Anorexia

Hi there. My name is and I joined about 2 weeks ago. I have

been reading the posts and have gotten some good information. It's

nice to know that I am not the only one going through this, but wish

that none of us had to.

Just a little hx of my daughter. My daughter is one of those kids

that is a perfectionist and sees things as very black and white. When

she was in preschool she was worried that her teacher was going to

jail because she had a kid and was not married.

I did not notice the OCD for what it was for quite a few years. In

First grade she started not wanting to ride the bus. She would freak

out and refused to get on it. She did fine at school once she was

there but I guess looking back she was worrying about what could

happen. Mostly now she tells me her fears were20about something

happening to me while she was at school.

Other signs that I still did not pick up on were that she would be in

a class such as gymnastics, doing fine, nothing going wrong, but all

of a sudden out of nowhere she would not want to go and have a

complete panic attack. To the best of my knowledge I believe this

happened when she felt that she was not the best in the class. When

she was in a class where the majority of the kids were younger she

did fine- but when there was varing levels of skill and she was not

in the higher skilled end she would feel anxiety.

She has always been a people pleaser.

About four years ago on a summer retreat with my church worship group

my son who was about 5 at the time, got sick and threw up on his

sleeping bag. For over a year my daughter would not get anywhere near

that sleeping bag. It was contaminated in her mind, even after it had

been washed several times, she was certain she would get sick from

it. That winter her hands were chapped and since it was winter I

assumed that it was from the wind and cold weather. But one day she

was taking a shower and I asked her why she was taking another shower

because she had showered earlier that day. She said she was afraid of

getting sick. That is when it clicked on about her hands and she

admitted that she was washing compulsively.

We started seeing a c

ounselor and by the end of the year she seemed

to be fine for the most part. She was doing well for awhile and then

was in a car accident with her grandparents (my inlaws)- it was not

too bad but it caused a lot of mental trauma for my daughter and she

went into other ocd behaviors and fears and still to this day does

not want to be alone with the inlaws because she is afraid something

bad will happen. Her grandparents would never intentionally hurt her,

but they do have poor judgement and my MIL says things that are

inappropriate to say to a child and things that make my daughter

stressful. That is another story but for example, after my daughter

returned from a trip out of state to visit my parents, my MIL asked

my daughter if she had a good time with her Nana and when Kaitlyn

said Yes, she said something to the effect of " Well i guess you don't

like it here in the country anymore " . Just things that make my

daughter feel guilty.

She started seeing the counselor again to deal with the car accident

anxiety. Fear of travelling a certain distance from home. etc. then

and that was the summer before 3rd grade. During the school year

another thing that happened is she started to beg to be homeschooled.

I would ask if anything happened at school that I should know about.

The answer would always be no. She was doing fine with school (always

has been a good student)- had friends

.. etc. When I would tell her

teacher she had anxiety they could not believe it. She would hide it

well at school and it would come out at home. She would do well

during the week and during the weekend she would get more and more

upset about returning to school on Monday. Finally in April I agreed

to homeschool. So, I pulled both kids out of school and started to

homeschool. In September I put my son back in school and Kaitlyn was

still getting counseling from the accident. Around February she was

starting to say she really did want to go back to school in Jr High-

but I said that if she went to public school for 6th- then she should

go to 5th grade and then because I was dealing with depression of my

own, and felt we werent doing enough schooling we both decided that

she would go back to school. So, she entered into the 4th grade and

now is in the 5th and as far as school is concerned she loves it and

does not really have any anxietys about school. She stopped seeing

the counselor by the end of the school year.

Then this last summer towards the end of summer I noticed that she

was exercising a lot. She is a very thin girl and never has had a

weight problem. I was noticing that she was being compulsive about

it. She had to walk a certain amount of times around the cul-de-sac,

lift a certain amount of reps of weights,etc. School started and she

continued this rout

ine. I did not notice that she was eating so very

little and really did not notice a sudden weight loss. I was

concerned with the obsessive nature of the exercise. I told her it

was fine to exercise but when she felt that she HAD to do it no

matter what, then that was a problem. One day I came in the kitchen

when she was making her lunch and saw that she was only packing 1/2 a

sandwich and putting a trace amount of peanut butter on it and that

was her whole lunch.

I scheduled a physical for her in November and she brought a list of

questions for the doctors. The list went something like this. " what

is a calorie? " " Do I burn calories when I am sitting? " , " what is the

difference between a fat calorie and a regular calorie? " etc. This

combined with my daughters weight 63.5 pounds for an 11 year old girl

who is 4ft 9 " the doctor told her she was concerned that she may be

starting to be anorexic. She explained this to my daughter. Gave her

some guidelines to follow and asked to see us again in two weeks. My

daughter came back in with a weight loss bringing her down to close

to 62 pounds. The doctor officially diagnosed the anorexia and we

discussed the OCD behaviors. My daughter had to be back in another

week. Had a small gain, another week had a small loss. Last

appointment, 2 weeks ago the doctor decided to start her on prozac-

(very small dose)- since the OCD sym

ptoms seemed to be getting worse.

My daughter told the doctor that she noticed that if she kicked her

leg once, then she would need to kick it 10 more times or she felt

something bad would happen. The same thing with shutting cubboards.

We went back in for a visit after 2 weeks on the meds and she did

have a little over 2 pound gain, but it is still like pulling teeth

to get her to eat, and she is getting too many of her calories from

sucking candies, treats, etc. She says her OCD is better though and

does not feel compelled to do any of the compulsive behaviors that

she was doing. She is still focused on calories though.

My husband recently got laid off and we are now on state insurance

and it was hard finding someone in the mental health field to see

her, but we do finally now have an appointment for monday so I am

hoping that the counseling in addition to the medication will help

her with some coping mechanisms. I have also ordered a book that was

recommended on this board and have talked to her about naming her OCD

and she seems to like that idea.

I am curious if anyone else here is dealing with an eating disorder

in addition to the OCD.

I am also curious about the heredity link with other mental illnesses

and OCD. I ask this because a few people have mentioned their own

illnesses and I take medication for anxiety/depression and my mom was

Bi-polar20(she is passed away) and my husbands Dad is.

I know this is a long post. Thanks for hanging in there. Looking

forward to " meeting " more of you. Thanks for the support.

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

Welcome to the group; I'm sorry you're daughter is having issues, but it

certainly sounds like you're on top of things.

my daughter (14 yrs- OCD diagnosis in Aug 08) doesn't have anorexia, but has had

eating " issues " most of her life. In preschool, K, and 1st grade,whenever she'd

get sick, she'd stop eating, period, because she was afraid of throwing up.

Looking back, I realize this might have been early OCD, but after a couple of

weeks, she'd " snap " out of it and everything would be fine. For 6 years, she

was fine, though she's always been a messy eater and eats a lot! We always had

to moderate her intake; she is very like her Dad, who will just eat and eat so

much food, I still find it unbelievable.

When she was 12, she took a summer school course about nutrition. On her own,

she cut out all soda, candy, junk food, etc. and stuck to it religiously. And

she would exercise faithfully every day, at least during the summer. Then she

would just stop during the school year. I always watched carefully due to her

age and " odd " eating habits. But she never seemed to cross that " line " , you

know?

Then this last August, she was diagnosed as having OCD. It started with being

afraid to eat ANYTHING with her hands; as a result, she dropped 15-20 lbs in 3

weeks! In her case, however, this was a good thing, as she was always slightly

" cuddly " . This subsided as the OCD picked other things for her to fear, but she

still (I think) has odd eating habits. She will eat so much at one sitting and

now will eat candy and soda once in a while. I worry with the meds also that

she'll gain the weight and more back, since that's one of the side effects with

Lexapro I've read about.

I find with girls the eating thing is a very fine line to walk and our society

continues to make this difficult for parents by continuing to promote

ultra-skinny celebs as glamorous. Does she read any of those celeb magazines

that might be contributing to her body image? Just a thought; we really limit

these around our house!

Debbie

http://twochinadolls.blogspot.com

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[Guest guest]

Hi ! Regarding your questions, many with anorexia do have OCD,

it's not uncommon. Since your daughter seems to worry about

calories, etc., and the exercise bit, it may be she's near that point

with anorexia (just my thoughts, no expert). But then OCD itself can

cause problems with eating (did with my son) so I guess maybe (?) it

might come down to " why " they are eating less, etc. Lots of parents

have dealt with eating problems (it can get scary) related to OCD, so

hope we can find some helpful suggestions for you. At least you and

her and doctor are aware of what's going on and sounds like you are

all doing all the right things, so you're on the right path!

The heredity/genetic link: Yes. First, though, you mentioned

bipolar in family history. So - be aware that bipolar also tends to

run in families (like OCD can) and that someone who has bipolar and

OCD together needs to be more careful with medication. I mean that

the SSRI meds used to treat OCD would also need another med (mood

stabilizer) to be taken if person also has bipolar; that's because

SSRIs alone (with bipolar dx) can cause manic behavior. Just wanted

to mention that since your daughter began Prozac. We parents

always " watch " our kids anyway when they begin meds, looking for side

effects, positives, etc. Here's an excerpt I found to better say

this: " Effective treatment depends on appropriate diagnosis of

bipolar disorder in children and adolescents. There is some evidence

that using antidepressant medication to treat depression in a person

who has bipolar disorder may induce manic symptoms if it is taken

without a mood stabilizer. In addition, using stimulant medications

to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) or ADHD-like

symptoms in a child with bipolar disorder may worsen manic symptoms.

While it can be hard to determine which young patients will become

manic, there is a greater likelihood among children and adolescents

who have a family history of bipolar disorder. If manic symptoms

develop or markedly worsen during antidepressant or stimulant use, a

physician should be consulted immediately, and diagnosis and

treatment for bipolar disorder should be considered. "

http://www.bpkids.org/site/PageServer?pagename=lrn_about

Other parents here have experience with bipolar/mood disorders so can

better comment on this.

I've a bit of OCD myself but at times mine has been more " episodic " ,

that is, during my teens, then a problem with germs as young adult,

some scrupulosity here/there...but it's never " bloomed " into what our

kids have 24/7, etc. Somehow I've gotten thru my episodes. So I

guess I don't quite have the " disorder " . My son, now 19, had OCD

begin in 6th grade, though he had his " quirks " before then. Just

that suddenly he had 24/7 nonstop OCD. His began with compulsions,

rituals, etc. Those are long gone (yay!) but he began having bad

thoughts in high school (scrupulosity/relgion related) and refuses

meds so suffers but manages somehow. (stubborn kid!) When his OCD

began, it was also a fear of something bad happening to *him* if he

didn't do things and also he needed a " just right " feeling. Sort of

like if your daughter has to do something 10x, my son might just keep

doing it until it felt " right " , no certain number.

I actually think you're lucky to be on state insurance (Medicaid or

the SCHIP here in NC) as it - here in NC - pays for mental health

services where private insurance won't always. It can be hard to

find someone to take it sometimes (for dental or medical) but I think

for mental health services it might be easier? However, we're not

a " large city " type area, more rural and larger cities 30 min away -

so that may be just our area of NC. My kids grew up on state

insurance so I miss it now that they're beyond the age for it.

Well this has gotten a bit long, but I'm glad you found our group!

single mom, 3 sons

, 19, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers

>

> Hi there. My name is and I joined about 2 weeks ago. I have

> been reading the posts and have gotten some good information. It's

> nice to know that I am not the only one going through this, but

wish

> that none of us had to.

>

> Just a little hx of my daughter. My daughter is one of those kids

> that is a perfectionist and sees things as very black and white.

When

[Guest guest]

I think you are correct to be careful. When eating enters into the

OCD picture you have to be more vigilant and more pro-active and have

knowledgeable doctors involved. We have dealt with severe OCD in 3

kids now, but only one with eating diosrder. When eating becomes

involved (esp with a growing child it can get worse suddenly) you

have a potentially serious even life threatening medical problem, not

just the maddening behaviors OCD alone.

Another trap you get into with eating disorders is that medication

cannot be metabolized by a severely malnourished child (and effects

of medication on medically/nutritionally compromised children are not

as predictable) so weight may actually have to be restored before

medication can take effect if BMI is below normal. Further if the

eating disorder begins during a growth spurt, the effects of

malnourishmnt and restriction are compuunded, so it may not look like

severely restrictive eating, but the caloric needs of an entering-

into-puberty-body can be very high. Add to that the fact that

perfectionistic type kids are often engaged in sports (which means

they should eat more, not less) and tend to be strict with themselves

and their perfoprmance, you end up with a disastrously inadequate

diet before you (parent) may even realize it, and a sudden downward

spiral. In my daughter's case it was deceptive b/c her ritual for

safe eating made it look like she could eat normally, but only if

the " safety " factors, which became more and more fixed and

restrictive, were in place. And her correction for an eating

ritual " failure " was to go on a fast. Enough factors can come

together to almost blindside you, it can be very scary. Your child

may even look OK to others if pre-pubertal, b/c they don't realize

she should have entered puberty (thinking she is younger than she is)

and is in fact just not growing.

>

> My daughter has a lot of fears regarding food, mainly that it might

cause her to be ill or die due to food poisoning.  Because of this,

when I took her for a consult at the NYU Child Study Center by their

specialist in OCD and tics, she recommended that we not wait to long

to start medication for OCD if the CBT wasn't effective enough.  Her

OCD was so off the charts that the therapist I took her to agreed she

should start on medication.  

>

>

>

> As far as your other comment about not telling parents to back off,

you are so correct!  A fellow special ed teacher at the school

district where I used to work slowly wasted away due to anorexia. >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just wanted to add my welcome to the others. I think you will find

support and understanding here, while the particulars may differ

there are many challenges in common.

We dealt with anorexic-type OCD for about two months after our son

had vomitting with a med change and then did not want to eat for fear

of vomitting. It altered his eating habits and " concerns " around

food for some time after. Once an " idea " or experience is planted in

the mind and it starts to obsess over it the challenges begin. Since

this one can be life threatening it is really concerning. We were

fortunate ours subsided. I know others who had to hospitalize for

this. The OCD can really take this over from what I've seen and

heard. And as mentioned the nutritional component then factors in

too.

From what you describe it sounds like the OCD and anorexia are

intertwined. I have no experience with this to advise but notice

others have underlined the importance of finding someone who really

understands both theses disorders to treat properly. I listened to

the author of a book describing and discussing anorexia and found her

take on this enlightened and inspiring. I believe it is " The Secret

Language of Eating Disorders " , written by a mother of two children

who got well, and who founded/runs(?) a centre in , B.C,

Canada.

The OCD aspect of this is distinct, as is the " pure " anorexia part,

not sure which part one would tackle first, but with the OCD part it

is to recognize that the thought is a " false alarm " not to be

listened or responded to. Depending on the level of insight with the

OCD this might be a starting point. I guess I'm wondering if the

obsessive nature with the calories and exercise is possibly more OCD

than other and might be addressed with ERP/CBT approach. Again, no

experience here, just thoughts... Another member here went through

grave difficulties on this and hopefully will post.

We do have some experience with the bipolar part. Our experience was

that with the underlying genetics of this disorder, medication can be

problematic. We experienced hypomania being tripped off with high

doses of ssri's. This is considered " drug induced " mania and is not

diagnosed bipolar. However, I was told you cannot trigger something

that is not there, but latent (by a research based psychiatrist who I

trust). There is much controversy around bipolar and diagnosis it

seems, however, if there is a strong family history of the disorder I

would strongly consider this and advocate when medicating.

Many doctors use a mood stabilizer first before adding ssri's. Since

you don't know beforehand what the response will be to the ssri.

With the age of your daughter she is right at the point of

instability and changes within the body, hormones etc. I would

advise caution, going slow, staying low with any medications, and

getting the best " expert " and up to date opinions on this. I notice

you mention prozak. For what it's worth we were told it is the most

activating of the ssri's by the pharmocology expert at our local

children's hospital. It is the only ssri that I get manic on, others

make me more depressed (I'm on the spectrum with bipolar). So

individual though, just have to try and see, unfortunately.

We went through really difficult times over this piece and in the end

discovered low dose, 20mg celexa worked best. Mainly because of high

sensitiviy and paradoxical reactions to every medication given. For

us the bipolar genetics plays a part in dosing and med choice,

whether there is an actual diagnosis of bipolar or not.

It sounds like you have some unravelling to do to sort all this out,

and I notice you have an appointment on Monday. I really hope you

gain some clarity, at minimum you will be on the road to starting to

find answers. This part can be so very individual, as how the OCD

manifests along with any other comorbid conditions can make it all so

complicated.

The best advise I feel I can give you is to find a place of calm

within yourself when considering options and trying to be clear, to

trust the instintive, Mum, part of you. There is often a very tiny

voice inside at a very deep gut level that knows what is the next

step to take. Do listen to this.

I feel now that I handed too much over to so called experts who did

not know our child at all and who did more harm than good at times.

I needed their help and advise, but I needed to be firmer when it

came to the medications and treatments, and risk losing their help by

going against their advise. It can be very difficult when you are in

the middle of it and every day feels like a crisis. If you can sit

in the " eye of the storm " and watch, rather than be " in it " and

thrown about, you will be less battered, and more able to be clear.

Not something I could do often, but at critical points I did, and

those decisions were always the best and took us in the direction we

needed to go.

I, like you live with depression, and at times it can be difficult

just to get through the day, never mind trying to find the brain

power to make decisions. Do be gentle with yourself on this.

Someone on this site used the term " compromised " Mum, I've added that

to " Good enough " Mum. We all do the best we can at any given time.

Keep posting and asking for what you need. I can honestly say that

the support and practical advise I gained here far surpassed anything

any of the doctors we dealt with had to offer. Not meaning to suggest

that professionals do not help too, just that the day to day stuff is

best understood by the front line workers - the parents!

As you see I can write long posts too! Hope theirs something helpful

in there. Sometimes writing helps me sort my " stuff " out too.

Big Hugs to you!!!

Barb

> appointment, 2 weeks ago the doctor decided to start her on prozac-

> (very small dose)- since the OCD symptoms seemed to be getting

worse.

She says her OCD is better though and

> does not feel compelled to do any of the compulsive behaviors that

> she was doing. She is still focused on calories though.

finally now have an appointment for monday so I am

> hoping that the counseling in addition to the medication will help

> her with some coping mechanisms. I have also ordered a book that

was

> recommended on this board and have talked to her about naming her

OCD

> and she seems to like that idea.

>

> I am curious if anyone else here is dealing with an eating disorder

> in addition to the OCD.

>

> I am also curious about the heredity link with other mental

illnesses

> and OCD. I ask this because a few people have mentioned their own

> illnesses and I take medication for anxiety/depression and my mom

was

> Bi-polar (she is passed away) and my husbands Dad is.

>

..

>

>

>