Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori, so is your daughter on a diet for this (GFCF or other)? I

haven't tried a diet, at least yet. At one time was so

limited in food choices (picky/texture) that I didn't see how we

could. Now he eats lots of foods and actually we both seem to eat

the high carb foods (the feel-good foods). I was thinking recently

about trying to switch from white pasta and slowly try to make a few

other changes to try out. Or maybe just add more " other stuff " so we

eat less of the carbs. I looked at the " no white " diet the other

day. I'm not sure *I* can do this, LOL, much less get on

one. And at times I've tried to research glucose/OCD but then get

turned in other directions.

But would be interested in your results with your daughter.

The " obsessive/ritual " traits with autism aren't the same, really,

as " typical " OCD. The underlying cause for the behavior, might be

one way to word it. But doesn't mean that trying diet changes might

not help in either case, you just never know. For instance, fish oil

has helped many with varying diagnoses and helped with OCD type

behaviors.

You'd think since his OCD began in 6th grade, I'd have had plenty of

time to try more, he's 19 now. But we've mainly done the

supplements, and there's a few more there to do to. I thought it

interesting when I was looking up stuff about probiotics that I

turned up stuff about people doing this for their dogs too!

OK, I'm rambling here, but do share what you've observed with your

daughter, etc.!

single mom, 3 sons

, 19, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers

>

> My 16 year old daughter has OCD-at times very severe.

> I've done a lot of research over the years and tried many things

and I

> am seeing a connection to her doing better on a certain diet. It

seems

> most research related to diet has to do with autistic kids. There

were

> times her therapist thought she may be in early schizophrenic or

have

> Aspergers. I know she has sensory integration problems.

> It appears to me that Autistic kids often have the whole range of

> things-sensory, learning problems, developmental delays and OCD.

[Guest guest]

Well HOORAY Judy, glad she's improved so much! So my question - her OC

behavior - any that have stopped? I've never had defiance or

opposition from really, that is his behavior doesn't need any

improvement (ahem, can't say that about other 2 I raised). I just want

to get rid of his OC thoughts. But maybe a bit of the Aspie stuff

might " clear up " too. Maybe I could just try gluten-free first.

Thanks for sharing with us!

>

> Hi,

> I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with OCD,

Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy, etc.

She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in the past.

>

[Guest guest]

no authority here, but wanted to chime in with my experience.

I had a doc/naturopath put me on probiotics once after testing for

stomach stuff, after having my gallbladder out, which caused issues. .

.. .Anyway, to the point. You can overdo, and cause other stomach

issues. So I found taking it low and slow is a GOOD idea.

BJ

> >

> > I appreciate all the feedback.

> > To share more of my story-my daughter has had issues since age

> three

> > with sensory issues. It was clear at age 12 she had OCD. Two years

> > ago a naturopath suggested a digestive analysis and it showed her

> gut

> > had all kinds of issues, even though she didn't complain of stomach

> > problems. She had some parasites and an intestinal fungas. What

> blew

> > me away was her reaction to the fungal treatment. At first her OCD

> > went sky high which showed me there was some connection-the DR said

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds very exciting!  How wonderful it would be if you could help your

daughter in such a simple way!

Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Hi,

I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with OCD, Bipolar

and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy, etc. She has been

hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in the past.

She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this kid turned

into a different child. She was calm, could think and reason through things, no

defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc. I never believed in these diets

working, but I was grasping at straws with her. I know for certain her

improvement was from the diet because last night she had a cookie, and literally

within a half an hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this morning ,she is

okay.

Just wanted to share!

Hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

I have had OCD since childhood and it is just plain OCD, although it is quite

severe when I am not on medication.  My daughter is the same way.  

She has always been a different sort of kid and socially awkward at times, but I

think this is because she is so intellectually gifted.  The school 

counselor once told me that she talks so over the heads of the other kids.  On

the other hand, she may seem very odd when she is afraid to do something

because of OCD or when she has an OCD obsession that makes her do things that

other kids wouldn't.  

As a special ed teacher, I can tell you that it is pretty easy, in my opinion to

identify Aspergers in a kid.  They speak in a rather robotic way, are really

odd socially, 

can't handle changes well, etc.  

OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

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>

> My 16 year old daughter has OCD-at times very severe.

>

> I've done a lot of research over the years and tried many things

and I

>

> am seeing a connection to her doing better on a certain diet. It

seems

>

> most research related to diet has to do with autistic kids. There

were

>

> times her therapist thought she may be in early schizophrenic or

h

ave

>

> Aspergers. I know she has sensory integration problems.

>

> It appears to me that Autistic kids often have the whole range of

>

> things-sensory, learning problems, developmental delays and OCD.

I'm

>

> staring to think of OC

> D as high funcioning Autism-in the spectrum in a

>

> sense. I know there are differences but I'm questioning these

seemingly

>

> seperate diagnosis when most kids have a few of them.

>

>

>

> The reason I think this is interesting is that there are stories of

>

> incredible changes with Autistic children and diet. A book called

>

> the " Gut Psychology Syndrome " speaks to this. I also just

read " louder

>

> than words " a book about a boy who came out of severe autism.

>

>

>

> I'm curious if anyone else out there is thinking along these lines

or

>

> has had success with the SCD diet that has helped autistic children.

>

> -Lori

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[Guest guest]

Thanks BJ, I'll remember that if we try it. I dunno, I always think

back to this fungal/yeast please he had on his leg when young,

recurring too. And I haven't looked at his legs in ages, LOL, but

did make me wonder (since he's on the spectrum) due to that and then

just his/my general " bad diet " if it might be something to try.

Carbs are the " feel good " foods and raise serotonin (right??) and he

and I do tend to have the " bad " carb diets, but them I've made it to

age 50 (51 a week from now) with my diet. Though I did go thru some

good diet years for a while, much younger. Don't like vegetables

(especially green) and cost-wise when buying groceries, just seems to

be the way we eat.

>

> no authority here, but wanted to chime in with my

experience.

> I had a doc/naturopath put me on probiotics once after testing for

> stomach stuff, after having my gallbladder out, which caused

issues. .

> . .Anyway, to the point. You can overdo, and cause other stomach

> issues. So I found taking it low and slow is a GOOD idea.

>

> BJ

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Grace,

Both of my kids with OCD, have sensory issues also. My dd also has been

diagnosed with PDD-NOS(once again, depending on the doctor). She is extremely

self conscious about her looks( actually to the extreme). She only wears the

clothes that are " in style " . She has to have her hair

just right,and she has tons of friends. She does lack some social skills and at

times has social anxiety.She also has difficulty with therapies. She pretty much

will just " blurt out " what she is feeling.I believe the main reason for the

autism spectrum diagnosis is her " self stimming " and apparant lack of eye

contact.

I think the diagnosis with a kid with lots of issues tends to vary with the

provider.

JMHO

Hugs

Judy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:00:38 PM

Subject: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

This is an interesting distinction (aside from diet issues) and I

wonder how easy it is to make. My kids (3)with OCD also have social

issues and sensory issues, yet do not fit criteria for autistc

spectrum disorders- that is depending upon whom you talk to. I have

had practioners tell me my daughter (when she was 8) has autism (or

ASD or apsergers or PDD) and others tell me she does not. She was

pycho-educationally evaluated through our highschool last year, and a

couple reasons thay gave for her not being in autistic spectrum is

that she apparently tries to dress too fashionably (though it comes

out odd) and she colors her hair and nails, and she desires a social

life. When she was in treatment for eating diorder they said she has

social skills but they are blocked by social anxiety, sensory anxiety

and ocd issues (so no ASD). However our p-doc, who has known her

longest, says she is in PDD spectrum, she also says this about my

son. She bases it upon their severe sensory dx, difficulty working in

any therapy due to quirky perceptions (like literalism-which has

dimished with maturity for my daughter ), narrow ranges of interest

and social difficulties. The thing is my kids lose skills, including

social, and the sensory stuff can wax-making them seem more in PDD or

ASD spectrum, or kind of off and on. I think my kids have OCD wth a

little bit more thrown in, but it is hard to define. There are

people clearly with just straight OCD (like the radio-show guy who

wrote a book recently,-Jeff something?) and they obviusly do not

have anything " extra " with the OCD.

nancy grace

>

> The flaw in this connection is that gut issues are not a symptom of

OCD.  I have severe OCD, but am doing very well

> now, and my daughter does too, and she, like I was, is in the

gifted program in school and has no sensory issues.  I know

>

> that there are kids we discuss here who are on the autistic

spectrum and have OCD, but this doesn't make them

>

> the same disorder.  Often children with OCD have social issues

because their OCD fears/rituals make them seem " different "  

>

> and also makes it difficult for them to be really cognizant of

social things going on around them.  This is very different from

have a 

>

> PDD.

>

>

> OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

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>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> My 16 year old daughter has OCD-at times very severe.

>

> I've done a lot of research over the years and tried many things

and I

>

> am seeing a connection to her doing better on a certain diet. It

seems

>

> most research related to diet has to do with autistic kids. There

were

>

> times her therapist thought she may be in early schizophrenic or

have

>

> Aspergers. I know she has sensory integration problems.

>

> It appears to me that Autistic kids often have the whole range of

>

> things-sensory, learning problems, developmental delays and OCD.

I'm

>

> staring to think of OC

> D as high funcioning Autism-in the spectrum in a

>

> sense. I know there are differences but I'm questioning these

seemingly

>

> seperate diagnosis when most kids have a few of them.

>

>

>

> The reason I think this is interesting is that there are stories of

>

> incredible changes with Autistic children and diet. A book called

>

> the " Gut Psychology Syndrome " speaks to this. I also just

read " louder

>

> than words " a book about a boy who came out of severe autism.

>

>

>

> I'm curious if anyone else out there is thinking along these lines

or

>

> has had success with the SCD diet that has helped autistic children.

>

> -Lori

>

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[Guest guest]

Judy,

I am curious to know if you put your son on this diet and did you see good

results with him as well?

Thanks!

Subject: Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

To:

Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 7:06 PM

Hi,

My daughter,(now 12) has had sensory issues since infancy, as well as stomach

problems. She was diagnosed with OCD at age 5, bipolar at age 6, PDD-NOS at age

8, and a mix of other things in between.(all depending on the doctors)

I will say this gluten free diet is working great. It has worked better than any

med she has ever been on, and she has been on 24 different med combinations.

I always thought the diet thing was a " crock " until I actually decided to break

down and apply it.

It's not easy, but it's working for her. There is a 90% improvement! !!!!

Hugs

Judy

____________ _________ _________ __

From: elzkrice <elzkricejuno (DOT) com>

To: @ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:54:50 PM

Subject: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

I appreciate all the feedback.

To share more of my story-my daughter has had issues since age three

with sensory issues. It was clear at age 12 she had OCD. Two years

ago a naturopath suggested a digestive analysis and it showed her gut

had all kinds of issues, even though she didn't complain of stomach

problems. She had some parasites and an intestinal fungas. What blew

me away was her reaction to the fungal treatment. At first her OCD

went sky high which showed me there was some connection-the DR said

this was good news in that it could mean part of the OCD was

exacerrbated by the fungas. Since then there has been a lot of

improvement and every time she has a hard time we go back to the

yeast free diet and she shows improvement. I'm considering being more

strict though and doing the SCD diet that many autistic kids are

showing improvement with and stick with it for longer to see if we

can get better results.

There are some doctors and books suggesting Autism, ADD, OCD etc are

neurological disorders that are connected to gut problems and that

these kids usually have problems with their guts. They respond to

things that help the gut-a yeast free diet or the specific

carbohydrate diet. The gluten free diet from what I understand helps

because there is usually a leaky gut situation and the gluten acts

like a drug crossing the barrier. If the gluten free diet helps then

it may mean there are underlining leaky gut issues that need to be

healed.

Maybe it doesn't matter if OCD is a subset of Autism but it does seem

many people have a mix of labels and often a question about more than

one diagnosis fitting their child. The only reason it matters to me

is that I think it opens up the way we think about treatment.

>

> Hi,

> I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with OCD,

Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

the past.

> She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

> Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc. I

never believed in these diets working, but I was grasping at straws

with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

morning ,she is okay.

> Just wanted to share!

> Hugs

> Judy

>

>

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I am curious to know if you put your son on this diet and did you see good

results with him as well?

Thanks!

Subject: Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

To:

Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 7:06 PM

Hi,

My daughter,(now 12) has had sensory issues since infancy, as well as stomach

problems. She was diagnosed with OCD at age 5, bipolar at age 6, PDD-NOS at age

8, and a mix of other things in between.(all depending on the doctors)

I will say this gluten free diet is working great. It has worked better than any

med she has ever been on, and she has been on 24 different med combinations.

I always thought the diet thing was a " crock " until I actually decided to break

down and apply it.

It's not easy, but it's working for her. There is a 90% improvement! !!!!

Hugs

Judy

____________ _________ _________ __

From: elzkrice <elzkricejuno (DOT) com>

To: @ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:54:50 PM

Subject: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

I appreciate all the feedback.

To share more of my story-my daughter has had issues since age three

with sensory issues. It was clear at age 12 she had OCD. Two years

ago a naturopath suggested a digestive analysis and it showed her gut

had all kinds of issues, even though she didn't complain of stomach

problems. She had some parasites and an intestinal fungas. What blew

me away was her reaction to the fungal treatment. At first her OCD

went sky high which showed me there was some connection-the DR said

this was good news in that it could mean part of the OCD was

exacerrbated by the fungas. Since then there has been a lot of

improvement and every time she has a hard time we go back to the

yeast free diet and she shows improvement. I'm considering being more

strict though and doing the SCD diet that many autistic kids are

showing improvement with and stick with it for longer to see if we

can get better results.

There are some doctors and books suggesting Autism, ADD, OCD etc are

neurological disorders that are connected to gut problems and that

these kids usually have problems with their guts. They respond to

things that help the gut-a yeast free diet or the specific

carbohydrate diet. The gluten free diet from what I understand helps

because there is usually a leaky gut situation and the gluten acts

like a drug crossing the barrier. If the gluten free diet helps then

it may mean there are underlining leaky gut issues that need to be

healed.

Maybe it doesn't matter if OCD is a subset of Autism but it does seem

many people have a mix of labels and often a question about more than

one diagnosis fitting their child. The only reason it matters to me

is that I think it opens up the way we think about treatment.

>

> Hi,

> I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with OCD,

Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

the past.

> She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

> Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc. I

never believed in these diets working, but I was grasping at straws

with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

morning ,she is okay.

> Just wanted to share!

> Hugs

> Judy

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are two different blood tests to identify Celiac, one which identifies the

antibodies and  the other,a gene test. In order to get a sufficient diagnosis,

you must have an endoscopy,upper GI, as well as have several different biopsy

sites taken.

The problem with the blood test is that it commonly shows a false negative in

kids.31% show it.

You can have a negative blood test and still be gluten intolerant.

Hugs

Judy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:23:33 PM

Subject: Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

There is blood testing that identifies Celiac disease.  I don't know of any

research connecting OCD and this disease.  

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Celiac disease is associated with neuro-psych manifestations. Could

that association possibly be extrapolated to include a link between

ocd/anxiety and gluten intolerance? Pubmed might have something.

nancy grace

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

>

> situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with

OCD,

>

> Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

> etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

>

> the past.

>

> > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

> > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

>

> kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

> reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc.

I

>

> never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at straws

>

> with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

> because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

>

> hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

> floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

> morning ,she is okay.

>

> > Just wanted to share!

>

> > Hugs

>

> > Judy

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Celiac has been linked to a number of neurological disorders. My son has

Celiac and OCD. His bloodwork was negative but his GI scope showed a

positive.

Annie

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of jchabot

Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:33 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

There are two different blood tests to identify Celiac, one which identifies

the antibodies and the other,a gene test. In order to get a sufficient

diagnosis, you must have an endoscopy,upper GI, as well as have several

different biopsy sites taken.

The problem with the blood test is that it commonly shows a false negative

in kids.31% show it.

You can have a negative blood test and still be gluten intolerant.

Hugs

Judy

________________________________

From: " Jordana120aol (DOT) <mailto:Jordana120%40aol.com> com " <Jordana120aol (DOT)

<mailto:Jordana120%40aol.com> com>

To: @ <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:23:33 PM

Subject: Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

There is blood testing that identifies Celiac disease. I don't know of any

research connecting OCD and this disease.

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Celiac disease is associated with neuro-psych manifestations. Could

that association possibly be extrapolated to include a link between

ocd/anxiety and gluten intolerance? Pubmed might have something.

nancy grace

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

>

> situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with

OCD,

>

> Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

> etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

>

> the past.

>

> > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

> > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

>

> kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

> reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc.

I

>

> never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at straws

>

> with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

> because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

>

> hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

> floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

> morning ,she is okay.

>

> > Just wanted to share!

>

> > Hugs

>

> > Judy

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

My son who doesn't have OCD or any other issues that we discuss here has been

having stomach pains for a year.  He has had two consultations with a top

pediatric gastroenterologist.  She ruled out celiac after blood testing. 

Later she did an endoscopy to rule out other things. 

Regardless, I think it is REALLY important not to put our kids through things

like special diets with all the implications it has for them, unless there is a

real reason to indicate it.  I think it is VERY important to have real

scientific research that shows a connection between OCD and another issue before

making that jump.  I have no stomach issues and have had severe OCD since

childhood and my daughter is the same.  I try to read anything and everything

that comes out about OCD from reliable sources and I have never seen a shred of

evidence or indication that there is connection between gluten in the diet and

OCD. 

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Celiac disease is associated with neuro-psych manifestations. Could

that association possibly be extrapolated to include a link between

ocd/anxiety and gluten intolerance? Pubmed might have something.

nancy grace

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

>

> situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with

OCD,

>

> Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

> etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

>

> the past.

>

> > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

> > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

>

> kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

> reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc.

I

>

> never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at straws

>

> with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

> because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

>

> hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

> floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

> morning ,she is okay.

>

> > Just wanted to share!

>

> > Hugs

>

> > Judy

>

> >

0A

>

> >

[Guest guest]

I am sorry that he has these two disorders, but that doesn't indicate that

there is a connection between the two.   You wouldn't connect whether or not

someone wears glasses with OCD, and until research shows otherwise, there is no

reason to believe that there is a connection with celiac.  This could be a good

question to pose to Dr. Geller.

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Celiac disease is associated with neuro-psych manifestations. Could

that association possibly be extrapolated to include a link between

ocd/anxiety and gluten intolerance? Pubmed might have something.

nancy grace

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

>

> situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with

OCD,

>

> Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

> etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

>

> the past.

>

> > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

> > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

>

> kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

> reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc.

I

>

> never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at straws

>

> with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

> because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

>

> hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

> floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

> morning ,she is okay.

>

> > Just wanted to share!

>

> > Hugs

>

> > Judy

>

> >

>

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been rem

oved]

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you are interested in research connecting Celiac and neurological

disorders, I will be happy to link some. I am not sure if you are looking or

that or not? But yes there can definitely be a relationship. Celiac is an

autoimmune disorder as is PANDAS which we believe my son has. Having one AI

disorder increases the risk of having another. Untreated Celiac is linked

to many medical problems. :-(

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jordana120@...

Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:08 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

I am sorry that he has these two disorders, but that doesn't indicate that

there is a connection between the two. You wouldn't connect whether or not

someone wears glasses with OCD, and until research shows otherwise, there is

no reason to believe that there is a connection with celiac. This could be

a good question to pose to Dr. Geller.

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Celiac disease is associated with neuro-psych manifestations. Could

that association possibly be extrapolated to include a link between

ocd/anxiety and gluten intolerance? Pubmed might have something.

nancy grace

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

>

> situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with

OCD,

>

> Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

> etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

>

> the past.

>

> > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

> > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

>

> kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

> reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc.

I

>

> never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at straws

>

> with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

> because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

>

> hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

> floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

> morning ,she is okay.

>

> > Just wanted to share!

>

> > Hugs

>

> > Judy

>

> >

>

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been rem

oved]

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The challenge is that sometimes research does exist but is

disregarded, and that traditional medical models often don't have

all/any answers. So you are left with finding answers for yourself.

While I agree it is unbalancing to make drastic changes in diet etc,

having done it many times, sometimes you have to try things to find

the answers, and you can pace it so it needn't be drastic.

When nothing is working and your kid is so severe and you try

something and it works it's worth it. Personally I feel that

eliminating gluten for a week to see the effect vs trying out a new

med much less problematic really.

I, like your son, had stomach issues for years, did all the

traditional tests, no answers. Basically ended up feeling it was in

my head, and maybe in one sense it was...

As an adult I did my own research, found alternative practioners, and

through diet changes, supplements, homeopathic remedies, and various

other things found answers. I no longer have stomach issues, unless

I eat something I know I shouldn't, but at least then it is an

informed choice.

Through my research I learned that some people's brain can have an

allergic reaction to commonly eaten foods such as milk, wheat, corn.

This is pretty commonly known now. As to why this is, that would be

a question I would like to see studied. I would not think it the

cause for OCD, but can be an aggravating/contributing factor. The

total load principle.

Stomach issues often go with anxiety disorders, depression. The

stomach is considered the second brain, so it makes sense. As to

what the answer is, I'm sure that it individual.

My concern would be thinking a diet change was " the answer " vs

medication if it was actually needed. But on the other hand if you

got results and did not need medication that would be fabulous.

Just my thoughts on this.

Barb

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > >

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > > Hi,

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know

my

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed

with

>

>

>

> OCD,

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years

in

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > the past.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and

this

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > kid turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior,

etc.

>

>

>

> I

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at

straws

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half

an

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > morning ,she is okay.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > > Just wanted to share!

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > > Hugs

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > > Judy

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > >

> 0A

>

> >

>

>

>

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi

I'm glad you mentioned the idea that there is probably more than one

possible cause for OCD. It only makes sense since we are all

individual, so while the affected parts and resulting disorder may be

similar the components within those parts and how they work in

concert will differ.

Also heard a doctor at the conference, think it was Dr.Jenike since

he tends to be blunt about it, say that because those with OCD don't

represent a big enough percentage to make it worthwhile for

pharmaceutical companies, or whoever actually decides to fund

research into medications to treat disorders like this, it is not

likely any " new " drugs to specifically target OCD will appear. Since

the ssri's generally work for most, why would they bother for the few

it does not, it's a business decision. At least this is what I

understood him to be saying. Since the research is costly there has

to be a big payoff, we don't represent a big enough marketshare.

I know there is always research going on by someone, but not by

the " big guys " from what I understood. Also, since so many get

themselves well using CBT, it eventually eliminates the need for

medication very often. Think drug companies like long term

customers, we're not as good a bet!

Our son used to have an overreactive nervous system, and immune

system with lots of allergies. He still has allergies, but much

less, and everything else seemed to settle down when an ssri was

started, when we finally found a stable dose. Seems to me the

connection with brain chemistry/whatever and nervous and immune

system is interrelated and can be calmed down in more than one way.

Over the years we did a ton of elimination diets and alternative

stuff trying to address specifically the allergies, and nothing

touched it much, but did find food colorings and additives a big

issue. With the medication it seemed like calming down the brain

calmed down the effects of everything else. Not sure if it's the

total load effect, or brain based. Again, the interrelationship (is

that a word?) between the brain and all other operating systems.

Our teenage son's diet is better than some, but not ideal. I'm sure

if he " cleaned " it up it probably would have positive effects and

even possibly affect the severity of his OCD, but I don't believe it

would eliminate it, or he would have been fine when he was younger

when I had control of this and he was not fine, he had GAD and

probably undiagnosed OCD/pre stuff that we did not recoginize at the

time. We managed it by keeping stress levels down. But looking back

now I wonder if we had looked into medication then how things might

have evolved or not.

What I think I am trying to say is we did lots of alternative stuff

and while it had possitive benefits for overall health it was when we

finally went the medication route I realize now the positve side

benefits besides affecting OCD, which again leads me back to

wondering what's the brain, what's something else and the

relationship between the two.

I think there are many things out there that have a postive impact on

brain based disorders while not actually " curing " them, since there

is no real cure is there? So whatever works to help quiet it down

I'll take a serving of it and do!

Barb

>

>

> Serotonin isn't the only brain chemical involved with OCD. It's

just

> the neurotransmitter that the medications focus on since it's

obvious

> it helps the OCD.

>

> I find it hard to believe that everyone with OCD would have the

> same...cause? chemical imbalance? reason? for OCD. Plus with the

> different behaviors OCD causes (from checking things to repeating

> things to confessing or just bad thoughts) it just doesn't seem, to

> me, there would be one " trigger " for it all (thus the different

> neurotransmitters).

>

> OK, LOL, so I'm getting to the diets, even supplements. What works

> for one person may work for them because that is what their body

> needs. Perhaps it's balancing out those " brain chemicals " ; or

maybe

> the allergic type reaction to some food/ingredient or that the body

> can't handle processing the food/ingredient and is messing up the

> body some way, by withdrawing that food/ingred the OC behavior

> stops. Hey, my sons seem fine with foods with red or yellow dye,

> other kids it causes problem behavior.

>

> I've tried lots of supplements/alternatives with . And one

> SSRI. The SSRI worked well. The alternative (inositol powder)

> worked well at one time, didn't help a bit years later when re-

tried

> it. But inositol has helped others, and some it hasn't.

>

> Just saying that there is not one solution for all, there is no

*one*

> cause/trigger for OCD in everyone, and I like to read what others

are

> theorizing about and also trying, and especially the successes.

And

> it's good to ask questions and " where did you read that " but

> sometimes it's just sort of " parent theory. " (like my reading

about

> glucose and trying to tie it to OC behavior at one time)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I am interested to see research connecting Celiac and OCD.  You are

making huge leaps here that don't have scientific validity.  I could list many

autoimmune disorders, e.g. rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, ileitis, etc. but there

is no greater connection between having these and having OCD.  There is very

little known about PANDAS, but I have read nothing that connects having PANDAS

to celiac.  I have gone to many TOP OCD centers over the years for treatment

for myself and now for treatment for my daughter.  (Most recently for my

daughter, I have gone to NYU Child Study Center's Tics and OCD specialist and to

Yale University's center for Childhood OCD.  At none of these places has any of

these top OCD specialists suggested a special diet or a possibility of a

connection with Celiac. 

I don't want to come across as being confrontational. That is not at all what I

am about.  What I do really care about is for the facts about OCD to be stated

clearly so that those who are seeking treatment for their children and

themselves know how to get the treatment that will provide the best help for

their children.  

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet

success?

Celiac disease is associated with neuro-psych manifestations. Could

that association possibly be extrapolated to include a link between

ocd/anxiety and gluten intolerance? Pubmed might have something.

nancy grace

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

>

> situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with

OCD,

>

> Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

> etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

>

> the past.

>

> > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

> > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

>

> k

id turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

> reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc.

I

>

> never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at straws

>

> with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

> because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

>

> hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

> floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

> morning ,she is okay.

>

> > Just wanted to share!

>

> > Hugs

>

> > Judy

>

> >

>

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been rem

oved]

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hear what you are saying.  I think it's great to talk about our theories of

what might cause OCD

or not or what might help or not.  I just get a little nuts when theories are

stated as " truths " .  I would LOVE to 

learn about new treatments for OCD, but it's treatments that are based on good

scientific reasoning that I am after.  

Life is really hard for my daughter, and the last thing I want to do is put her

through a restrictive diet or " medical 

tests " unless there is hard evidence that it will make a difference.

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

OK, have to jump in with my thoughts.

This topic started out about possible OCD, autism connection. Well -

autism does include obsessive behaviors and ritual type. Now OCD

falls under anxiety disorders (last I read; also read somewhere about

getting that changed). The behaviors that occur in autism aren't

anxiety related (unless you try to stop them), they are more a

calming behavior. Oh, you can work on the autism type if parent

feels it's something that needs changed, probably similar to CBT, but

also could vary with child (based on functioning level).

Still to me, it's very interesting that=2

0two separate " disorders " can

have such similar behaviors.

And lots of the diagnoses are all neurological.

Serotonin isn't the only brain chemical involved with OCD. It's just

the neurotransmitter that the medications focus on since it's obvious

it helps the OCD.

I find it hard to believe that everyone with OCD would have the

same...cause? chemical imbalance? reason? for OCD. Plus with the

different behaviors OCD causes (from checking things to repeating

things to confessing or just bad thoughts) it just doesn't seem, to

me, there would be one " trigger " for it all (thus the different

neurotransmitters).

OK, LOL, so I'm getting to the diets, even supplements. What works

for one person may work for them because that is what their body

needs. Perhaps it's balancing out those " brain chemicals " ; or maybe

the allergic type reaction to some food/ingredient or that the body

can't handle processing the food/ingredient and is messing up the

body some way, by withdrawing that food/ingred the OC behavior

stops. Hey, my sons seem fine with foods with red or yellow dye,

other kids it causes problem behavior.

I've tried lots of supplements/alternatives with . And one

SSRI. The SSRI worked well. The alternative (inositol powder)

worked well at one time, didn't help a bit years later when re-tried

it. But inositol has helped others, and some it hasn't.

Just sayi

ng that there is not one solution for all, there is no *one*

cause/trigger for OCD in everyone, and I like to read what others are

theorizing about and also trying, and especially the successes. And

it's good to ask questions and " where did you read that " but

sometimes it's just sort of " parent theory. " (like my reading about

glucose and trying to tie it to OC behavior at one time)

[Guest guest]

Yeah, Jordana, I know what you mean. If something helps someone else

(like a diet or a particular supplement), doesn't mean it'll help

everyone but it gives an option to parents to research, maybe try.

Really, would have to research anything before trying, at least I

would. For instance, I think it was about gluten (I've read so many

diets lately, but it was about one of them) that said to take B

complex if doing the diet, something needed because the person is

eliminating gluten (or whatever diet I was reading, just don't quote

me that it was the gluten-free).

Since my 19 yr old (20 next month) refuses meds and then there are

those people who seem treatment-resistant with the meds (or bad side

effects, etc.), I like learning about possible other options to try.

He's willing to try other stuff so that's our route. But if he'd

take a med and it helped (like Celexa did a few years ago), I'd be

fine for him to take it, stay on it.

Interestingly, another son of mine (no OCD) who could use meds also

refuses to try any, at least for his depression. I didn't raise them

this way, either, LOL. A 3rd son has tried some in the last couple

years, Paxil, Wellbutrin...maybe something else too.

>

> I hear what you are saying.  I think it's great to talk about our

theories of what might cause OCD

> or not or what might help or not.  I just get a little nuts when

theories are stated as " truths " .  I would LOVE to 

>

> learn about new treatments for OCD, but it's treatments that are

based on good scientific reasoning that I am after.  

>

[Guest guest]

I hear you!  I'm such a big advocate for medication for OCD because I am such a

huge proof of what it can do.

I am completely unable to be reasoned with regarding my fears, which become

severe, when I am off medication.

I also then become practically suicidally depressed.  It only takes going back

on Anafranil for all of this to disappear.

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Yeah, Jordana, I know what you mean. If something helps someone else

(like a diet or a particular supplement), doesn't mean it'll help

everyone but it gives an option to parents to research, maybe try.

Really, would have to research anything before trying, at least I

would. For instance, I think it was about gluten (I've read so many

diets lately, but it was about one of them) that said to take B

complex if doing the diet, something needed because the person is

eliminating gluten (or whatever diet I was reading, just don't quote

me that it was the gluten-free).

Since my 19 yr old (20 next month) refuses meds and then there are

those people who seem treatment-resistant with the meds (or bad side

effects, etc.), I like learning about possible other options to try.

He's willing to try othe

r stuff so that's our route. But if he'd

take a med and it helped (like Celexa did a few years ago), I'd be

fine for him to take it, stay on it.

Interestingly, another son of mine (no OCD) who could use meds also

refuses to try any, at least for his depression. I didn't raise them

this way, either, LOL. A 3rd son has tried some in the last couple

years, Paxil, Wellbutrin...maybe something else too.

>

> I hear what you are saying.  I think it's great to talk about our

theories of what might cause OCD

> or not or what might help or not.  I just get a little nuts when

theories are stated as " truths " .  I would LOVE to 

>

> learn about new treatments for OCD, but it's treatments that are

based on good scientific reasoning that I am after.  

>

[Guest guest]

The link b/w Pandas and Celiac is that they are both autoimmune disorders.

Having one AI disorder increases your likelihood of developing another one.

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jordana120@...

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:10 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet success?

Annie, I am interested to see research connecting Celiac and OCD. You are

making huge leaps here that don't have scientific validity. I could list

many autoimmune disorders, e.g. rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, ileitis, etc.

but there is no greater connection between having these and having OCD.

There is very little known about PANDAS, but I have read nothing that

connects having PANDAS to celiac. I have gone to many TOP OCD centers over

the years for treatment for myself and now for treatment for my daughter.

(Most recently for my daughter, I have gone to NYU Child Study Center's Tics

and OCD specialist and to Yale University's center for Childhood OCD. At

none of these places has any of these top OCD specialists suggested a

special diet or a possibility of a connection with Celiac.

I don't want to come across as being confrontational. That is not at all

what I am about. What I do really care about is for the facts about OCD to

be stated clearly so that those who are seeking treatment for their children

and themselves know how to get the treatment that will provide the best help

for their children.

Re: OCD and Autism Connected?-diet

success?

Celiac disease is associated with neuro-psych manifestations. Could

that association possibly be extrapolated to include a link between

ocd/anxiety and gluten intolerance? Pubmed might have something.

nancy grace

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> > I just had to post on this one.For those of you who don't know my

>

> situation,  my daughter(just turned 12) has been diagnosed with

OCD,

>

> Bipolar and PDD-NOS. We have tried just about every med, therapy,

>

> etc. She has been hospitalized twice and in partial for 2 years in

>

> the past.

>

> > She has a lot of obsessions which center around vomitting also.

>

> > Anyway, I started her on a gluten free diet last Monday, and this

>

> k

id turned into a different child. She was calm, could think and

>

>

> reason through things, no defiance, no oppositional behavior, etc.

I

>

> never believed in these diets working,20but I was grasping at straws

>

> with her. I know for certain her improvement was from the diet

>

> because last night she had a cookie, and literally within a half an

>

> hour I saw her deteriorate before my eyes. She was lying on the

>

> floor, being defiant , and than began to shut down. Now this

>

> morning ,she is okay.

>

> > Just wanted to share!

>

> > Hugs

>

> > Judy

>

> >

>

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been rem

oved]

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, Anafranil has helped a lot of people, can do wonders. I'd

certainly trial it too if the SSRIs tried didn't help. Glad it works

so well for you!

>

> I hear you!  I'm such a big advocate for medication for OCD because

I am such a huge proof of what it can do.

> I am completely unable to be reasoned with regarding my fears, which

become severe, when I am off medication.

>

> I also then become practically suicidally depressed.  It only takes

going back on Anafranil for all of this to disappear.

>