Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

May 2, 2012

IN El Salvador it was the same. The men were ok to wait. They were even away for sometimes a few weeks at a job, and then coming home. They loved each other during THEIR fertile time.Yes, it was hard to wait sometimes, but once they waited it wasn't an unusually insatiably need to satisfy. The normal sharing of affections was what was at the heart of the matter, and was. The couples, if they talk about it in front of me here in the DC Metro area, end up discussing often for the first time why they were on the Pill, and more to the NFP point, why they see it as abstaining rather than waiting, and in discussion often find they agree more than disagree, and are happy in a joint mission of waiting for each other.

Engaged couples are ditching the Pill as we talk about these things.in Christ, Therese

It may be time to ask whether the issue is really to make the days of abstinence as short as possible, or if we are dealing with untested assumptions?

When we began offering the Ovulation method in St. Louis we invited acceptors to a group session. What we heard was that the women, who had been using the pill up to that point, were initially afraid of their husband’s reactions if they told them “no”. they discovered that the spouses were quite amenable to waiting until the fertile phase had passed, and were not standing there with a stop watch. We had similar feedback in Kenya, when a woman told us I’m not saying ‘no” I’m saying WE are fertile..

What are some of your experiences with asking couples to wait (I don’t use the word abstain… )

Hanna Klaus

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of rbamer2@...

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:40 AMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Dear Len, thank you for your gracious reply. As someone who made it through med school and residency within the last 15 years and never heard a peep about NFP or the ability for women to monitor their cervical mucus, BBTs or perform urinary hormonal testing, I for one am thankful for you helping to disseminate Dr Browns findings, and for all the others in this group who have made such great contributions to the field as well.

I have read Types of ovarian activity in women and their significance: the continuum and also A Study of Returning Fertility After Childbirth and During Lactation by Measurement of Urinary Estrogen and Pregnanediol Excretion and Cervical Mucus Production. Are there any other articles which you feel we should read?

How does the Brown Monitor differ from the Clearblue or Persona monitors?If we want to convince medical professionals to learn about and offer NFP in their practices, it would be good for all of us to study the hormonal changes which create the readily observable fertile signs. This science, if further developed and made readily understandable to physicians and NFP Instructors alike, would unite all of the various NFP methods. One could still teach most people, i.e., a variant of the ovulation method, and it would suffice. But as the situation changes for the woman (the continuum) or for the " forgotten women of NFP " there would be other options. Of course, I realize that all of our methods have attempted to adapt our rules for patients who have special circumstances and the efficacy of these adaptations need to be further studied.

I would look forward to a conference where your work would be summarized or reviewed again for those of us who are just beginning this journey.Blessings to you and your work, Dr Peck, MD, CCD, Marquette NFP Instructor

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:48:08 +1200

To: <nfpprofessionals >ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to discuss this.

Len Blackwell Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

-- Therese , RN, FCP*

*FertilityCare Practitioner

www.potomacfertility.org

" your cycles, your fertility, in your hands "

May 2, 2012

Hanna (Dr. Klaus):

I don’t think that this is necessarily an un-tested assumption. We have close to 3,000 couples in our online site and abstinence is one of the major complaints.

Abstinence also is one of the common complaints and struggles by couples in use of NFP – in psychological/behavioral studies – including one that I have published with my midwifery colleagues. I could fill pages and pages of comments from couples in our online

discussion room on this topic.

The evidence can also be found with efficacy studies in looking at the difference between Correct use and Typical use of a method. With NFP methods there is

often a big difference in Correct use and Typical use pregnancy rates – NFP methods that are close to 100% correct use and then only 80% typical – (i.e., the differences in the two numbers) indicate difficulty in use of the method. It is easy to get high

Correct use figures when on average 60-70% of the menstrual cycle is considered fertile – but it is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the

couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy.

J. Fehring

Professor

Marquette University

College of Nursing

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of Hanna Klaus

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:04 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Time to raise a fundamental question

It may be time to ask whether the issue is really to make the days of abstinence as short as possible, or if we are dealing with untested assumptions?

When we began offering the Ovulation method in St. Louis we invited acceptors to a group session. What we heard was that the women, who had been using the

pill up to that point, were initially afraid of their husband’s reactions if they told them “no”. they discovered that the spouses were quite amenable to waiting until the fertile phase had passed, and were not standing there with a stop watch. We had

similar feedback in Kenya, when a woman told us I’m not saying ‘no” I’m saying WE are fertile..

What are some of your experiences with asking couples to wait (I don’t use the word abstain… )

Hanna Klaus

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of rbamer2@...

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:40 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Dear Len, thank you for your gracious reply. As someone who made it through med school and residency within the last 15 years and never heard a peep about NFP or the ability for women to monitor their cervical mucus, BBTs or perform urinary hormonal testing,

I for one am thankful for you helping to disseminate Dr Browns findings, and for all the others in this group who have made such great contributions to the field as well.

I have read Types of ovarian activity in women and their significance: the continuum and also A Study of Returning Fertility After Childbirth and During Lactation by Measurement of Urinary Estrogen and Pregnanediol Excretion and Cervical Mucus Production. Are

there any other articles which you feel we should read?

How does the Brown Monitor differ from the Clearblue or Persona monitors?

If we want to convince medical professionals to learn about and offer NFP in their practices, it would be good for all of us to study the hormonal changes which create the readily observable fertile signs. This science, if further developed and made readily

understandable to physicians and NFP Instructors alike, would unite all of the various NFP methods. One could still teach most people, i.e., a variant of the ovulation method, and it would suffice. But as the situation changes for the woman (the continuum)

or for the " forgotten women of NFP " there would be other options. Of course, I realize that all of our methods have attempted to adapt our rules for patients who have special circumstances and the efficacy of these adaptations need to be further studied.

I would look forward to a conference where your work would be summarized or reviewed again for those of us who are just beginning this journey.

Blessings to you and your work,

Dr Peck, MD, CCD, Marquette NFP Instructor

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:48:08 +1200

To: <nfpprofessionals >

ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 2, 2012

I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 2, 2012

In our experience teaching CrMS we have noticed how some clients can implement the rules for avoiding a pregnancy and work implementingSPICE spiritual, physical, intellectuall,communicative and emotional interaction and support during the times of abstinence. Yes we have seen "unplanned pregnancies" Yes, for some couples abstinence is cross. In a very personal opinion in married couples, for men the cross is to abstain, for women the cross is to be open. But there is hope, working in all these aspects of SPICE called by JPII the "Inner soul of human sexuality", couples can grow in charity, love, understanding, generosity and all the virtues needed for this state of life. Totally agree about abstinence before marriage and avoid use

of contraception to be able to implement NFP rules. Liliana Cote de Bejarano MD, MPH, CFCPPS: Talking about couples with infertility where the it is important to differentiate between an ovulatory event VS true ovulation, hormonal testing can be done to confirm ovulation. Also follicle tracking by ultrasound is valuable to monitor follicle rupture .

To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:50 AM Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 2, 2012

Hi, I'd love to know: are the comments from couples, truly from the man and woman giving their separate opinions that match on reviewing info, or is it one comment from " the couple " IE do both get a chance to weigh in?

Hanna (Dr. Klaus):

I don’t think that this is necessarily an un-tested assumption. We have close to 3,000 couples in our online site and abstinence is one of the major complaints.

Abstinence also is one of the common complaints and struggles by couples in use of NFP – in psychological/behavioral studies – including one that I have published with my midwifery colleagues. I could fill pages and pages of comments from couples in our online

discussion room on this topic.

The evidence can also be found with efficacy studies in looking at the difference between Correct use and Typical use of a method. With NFP methods there is

often a big difference in Correct use and Typical use pregnancy rates – NFP methods that are close to 100% correct use and then only 80% typical – (i.e., the differences in the two numbers) indicate difficulty in use of the method. It is easy to get high

Correct use figures when on average 60-70% of the menstrual cycle is considered fertile – but it is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the

couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy.

J. Fehring

Professor

Marquette University

College of Nursing

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of Hanna Klaus

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:04 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Time to raise a fundamental question

It may be time to ask whether the issue is really to make the days of abstinence as short as possible, or if we are dealing with untested assumptions?

When we began offering the Ovulation method in St. Louis we invited acceptors to a group session. What we heard was that the women, who had been using the

pill up to that point, were initially afraid of their husband’s reactions if they told them “no”. they discovered that the spouses were quite amenable to waiting until the fertile phase had passed, and were not standing there with a stop watch. We had

similar feedback in Kenya, when a woman told us I’m not saying ‘no” I’m saying WE are fertile..

What are some of your experiences with asking couples to wait (I don’t use the word abstain… )

Hanna Klaus

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of rbamer2@...

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:40 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Dear Len, thank you for your gracious reply. As someone who made it through med school and residency within the last 15 years and never heard a peep about NFP or the ability for women to monitor their cervical mucus, BBTs or perform urinary hormonal testing,

I for one am thankful for you helping to disseminate Dr Browns findings, and for all the others in this group who have made such great contributions to the field as well.

I have read Types of ovarian activity in women and their significance: the continuum and also A Study of Returning Fertility After Childbirth and During Lactation by Measurement of Urinary Estrogen and Pregnanediol Excretion and Cervical Mucus Production. Are

there any other articles which you feel we should read?

How does the Brown Monitor differ from the Clearblue or Persona monitors?

If we want to convince medical professionals to learn about and offer NFP in their practices, it would be good for all of us to study the hormonal changes which create the readily observable fertile signs. This science, if further developed and made readily

understandable to physicians and NFP Instructors alike, would unite all of the various NFP methods. One could still teach most people, i.e., a variant of the ovulation method, and it would suffice. But as the situation changes for the woman (the continuum)

or for the " forgotten women of NFP " there would be other options. Of course, I realize that all of our methods have attempted to adapt our rules for patients who have special circumstances and the efficacy of these adaptations need to be further studied.

I would look forward to a conference where your work would be summarized or reviewed again for those of us who are just beginning this journey.

Blessings to you and your work,

Dr Peck, MD, CCD, Marquette NFP Instructor

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:48:08 +1200

To: <nfpprofessionals >

ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

-- Therese , RN, FCP*

*FertilityCare Practitioner

www.potomacfertility.org

" your cycles, your fertility, in your hands "

May 2, 2012

, I appreciate your citing of the stats,Â but this is where we all began, in the late 70â€™sÂ and early 80â€™s.Â Rather than just take a cross section of users,Â longitudinal data which reflect the growth of couples as they come to terms with unitingÂ sexuality and fertility in their minds and behavioral choices Â are needed.Â Even Kathy Stein Greenblat found a reduction of intercourse events as couples had children,Â aged, had more activities, and found they needed appointments to get together.Â Â Â I have written about Â Violet Kimaniâ€™s study of our OM users in Kenya,Â which reflected similar growth..Â Iâ€™ll be glad to send it to anyone requesting it. I appreciate Theresaâ€™sÂ Lilianaâ€™s and â€™s inputs.Â Â Years ago there were heated discussions whether NFP was just another method of family planning, or a way of life.Â Â The evidence favors the latter. Thatâ€™s another reason why I began Teen STAR.Â We need to reach teens before they settle into the contraceptive mind set.. Hanna From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Liliana Cote de BejaranoSent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:16 PMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question In our experience teaching CrMS we have noticed how some clients can implement the rules for avoiding a pregnancy and work implementingSPICE spiritual, physical, intellectuall,communicative and emotional interaction and support during the times of abstinence. Yes we have seen " unplanned pregnancies " Yes, for some couples abstinence is cross. In a very personal opinion in married couples, for men the cross is to abstain, for women the cross is to be open. But there is hope, working in all these aspects of SPICE called by JPII the " Inner soul of human sexuality " , couples can grow in charity, love, understanding, generosity and all the virtues needed for this state of life. Totally agree about abstinence before marriage and avoid use of contraception to be able to implement NFP rules. Liliana Cote de Bejarano MD, MPH, CFCPPS: Talking about couples with infertility where the it is important to differentiate between an ovulatory event VS true ovulation, hormonal testing can be done to confirm ovulation. Also follicle tracking by ultrasound is valuable to monitor follicle rupture . To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:50 AMSubject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing? Kippley

May 2, 2012

Of course I would agree with you entirely. NFP has brought my husband and I closer together and it IS truly a way of life. It is hard for BOTH of us at times. We have 6 little lives thanks to the openness to life NFP promotes. But the stats that we should be looking at are the 1 percent of Catholics using NFP. Why so low? NFP has been around a long time now. Lots of reasons of course but ultimately because it IS hard, it can be frustrating, people do not always understand it, doctors never talk about it, does it really work, etc etcElucidating the fertile window via hormonal measurements speaks a scientific language to this "Enlightened Age" that may appeal to those who would otherwise tune us out. How do we win back the contraceptors? With faith and reason. With science and scripture. With research and holy example.It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both.With utmost respect and Blessings to you and your most important work, rebeccaSent via BlackBerry by AT&TSender: nfpprofessionals Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:04:29 -0400To: <nfpprofessionals >ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question , I appreciate your citing of the stats,Â but this is where we all began, in the late 70â€™sÂ and early 80â€™s.Â Rather than just take a cross section of users,Â longitudinal data which reflect the growth of couples as they come to terms with unitingÂ sexuality and fertility in their minds and behavioral choices Â are needed.Â Even Kathy Stein Greenblat found a reduction of intercourse events as couples had children,Â aged, had more activities, and found they needed appointments to get together.Â Â Â I have written about Â Violet Kimaniâ€™s study of our OM users in Kenya,Â which reflected similar growth..Â Iâ€™ll be glad to send it to anyone requesting it. I appreciate Theresaâ€™sÂ Lilianaâ€™s and â€™s inputs.Â Â Years ago there were heated discussions whether NFP was just another method of family planning, or a way of life.Â Â The evidence favors the latter. Thatâ€™s another reason why I began Teen STAR.Â We need to reach teens before they settle into the contraceptive mind set.. Hanna From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Liliana Cote de BejaranoSent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:16 PMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question In our experience teaching CrMS we have noticed how some clients can implement the rules for avoiding a pregnancy and work implementingSPICE spiritual, physical, intellectuall,communicative and emotional interaction and support during the times of abstinence. Yes we have seen " unplanned pregnancies " Yes, for some couples abstinence is cross. In a very personal opinion in married couples, for men the cross is to abstain, for women the cross is to be open. But there is hope, working in all these aspects of SPICE called by JPII the " Inner soul of human sexuality " , couples can grow in charity, love, understanding, generosity and all the virtues needed for this state of life. Totally agree about abstinence before marriage and avoid use of contraception to be able to implement NFP rules. Liliana Cote de Bejarano MD, MPH, CFCPPS: Talking about couples with infertility where the it is important to differentiate between an ovulatory event VS true ovulation, hormonal testing can be done to confirm ovulation. Also follicle tracking by ultrasound is valuable to monitor follicle rupture . To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:50 AMSubject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing? Kippley

May 2, 2012

"How do we win back the contraceptors? With faith and reason. With science and scripture. With research and holy example." AMEN! RE: Time to raise a fundamental question I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing? Kippley

May 2, 2012

Personally, I believe only 1% of Catholics use NFP because many of them have never even heard about it - not only have they not heard about it from their physicians, but also from their parents or from the pulpit. By the time the church finally teaches NFP to it's members during marriage prep, couples have been hearing about and/or using artificial contraception for 10 or more years. By then it is difficult to undo all the damage that has been done because they may have learned that "the pill" is the panacea for women's reproductive health needs.Therefore, I firmly believe that the Catholic Church needs to teach it members at an early age to appreciate the gift of their fertility, so they can respect their body and their ability to create new life. I think making a program like TeenSTAR a part of confirmation prep would go a long way in encouraging Catholics to use NFP later on in their marriages.Ironically teen STAR is widely taught oversees but not so much here in the USA. We need to change that.Sincerely,Marguerite DuaneSent from my iPhone

Of course I would agree with you entirely. NFP has brought my husband and I closer together and it IS truly a way of life. It is hard for BOTH of us at times. We have 6 little lives thanks to the openness to life NFP promotes. But the stats that we should be looking at are the 1 percent of Catholics using NFP. Why so low? NFP has been around a long time now. Lots of reasons of course but ultimately because it IS hard, it can be frustrating, people do not always understand it, doctors never talk about it, does it really work, etc etcElucidating the fertile window via hormonal measurements speaks a scientific language to this "Enlightened Age" that may appeal to those who would otherwise tune us out. How do we win back the contraceptors? With faith and reason. With science and scripture. With research and holy example.It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both.With utmost respect and Blessings to you and your most important work, rebeccaSent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:04:29 -0400To: <nfpprofessionals >ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

, I appreciate your citing of the stats, but this is where we all began, in the late 70â€™s and early 80â€™s. Rather than just take a cross section of users, longitudinal data which reflect the growth of couples as they come to terms with uniting sexuality and fertility in their minds and behavioral choices are needed. Even Kathy Stein Greenblat found a reduction of intercourse events as couples had children, aged, had more activities, and found they needed appointments to get together. I have written about Violet Kimaniâ€™s study of our OM users in Kenya, which reflected similar growth.. Iâ€™ll be glad to send it to anyone requesting it. I appreciate Theresaâ€™s Lilianaâ€™s and â€™s inputs. Years ago there were heated discussions whether NFP was just another method of family planning, or a way of life. The evidence favors the latter. Thatâ€™s another reason why I began Teen STAR. We need to reach teens before they settle into the contraceptive mind set.. Hanna From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Liliana Cote de BejaranoSent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:16 PMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question In our experience teaching CrMS we have noticed how some clients can implement the rules for avoiding a pregnancy and work implementingSPICE spiritual, physical, intellectuall,communicative and emotional interaction and support during the times of abstinence. Yes we have seen "unplanned pregnancies" Yes, for some couples abstinence is cross. In a very personal opinion in married couples, for men the cross is to abstain, for women the cross is to be open. But there is hope, working in all these aspects of SPICE called by JPII the "Inner soul of human sexuality", couples can grow in charity, love, understanding, generosity and all the virtues needed for this state of life. Totally agree about abstinence before marriage and avoid use of contraception to be able to implement NFP rules. Liliana Cote de Bejarano MD, MPH, CFCPPS: Talking about couples with infertility where the it is important to differentiate between an ovulatory event VS true ovulation, hormonal testing can be done to confirm ovulation. Also follicle tracking by ultrasound is valuable to monitor follicle rupture . To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:50 AMSubject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing? Kippley

May 2, 2012

I agree but would go a step further and say that those who have heard about NFP - many times have heard about it NOT being a reasonable or effective means of child spacing, from their parents! The old joke " "What do you call people who use NFP? Parents". Educating the older generation is just as important because it is they who directly influence the younger generation...on a daily basis. If they believe it is a joke (literally), they will not be supportive at all.My own mother-in-law, a faithful Catholic, herself having 10 children, advised me after several children that I might want to "do something" about that. Well, now, after 14 children (3 in heaven, 1 adopted), menopause has "done something about it" for me. LOL. But you see my point. Even faithful Catholics don't have an understanding of it all. Sandrock, CNM Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID RE: Time to raise a fundamental question I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing? Kippley

May 2, 2012

I agree that we need to educate the teens. 100%!!! I think we also need to separate NFP methods from the Umbrella of NFP and teach the methods of NFP at medical schools and nursing schools, the way that the different types of contraceptives are taught. The " generalized " current response by ObGyns, CNMs and family practitioners is that the umbrella of NFP is ineffective and it's " not family planning " - which I'm sure you are all painfully aware. I think we need to get NFP into the culture somehow, like having people using NFP (in a positive light) on a prime-time popular TV show. Get NFP talked about in the popular magazines - Prevention, Glamour, Cosmo.... I just don't know how to do it. Does anyone have " connections " ?

-

Personally, I believe only 1% of Catholics use NFP because many of them have never even heard about it - not only have they not heard about it from their physicians, but also from their parents or from the pulpit. By the time the church finally teaches NFP to it's members during marriage prep, couples have been hearing about and/or using artificial contraception for 10 or more years. By then it is difficult to undo all the damage that has been done because they may have learned that " the pill " is the panacea for women's reproductive health needs.

Therefore, I firmly believe that the Catholic Church needs to teach it members at an early age to appreciate the gift of their fertility, so they can respect their body and their ability to create new life. I think making a program like TeenSTAR a part of confirmation prep would go a long way in encouraging Catholics to use NFP later on in their marriages.

Ironically teen STAR is widely taught oversees but not so much here in the USA. We need to change that.Sincerely,Marguerite DuaneSent from my iPhone

Of course I would agree with you entirely. NFP has brought my husband and I closer together and it IS truly a way of life. It is hard for BOTH of us at times. We have 6 little lives thanks to the openness to life NFP promotes.

But the stats that we should be looking at are the 1 percent of Catholics using NFP. Why so low? NFP has been around a long time now. Lots of reasons of course but ultimately because it IS hard, it can be frustrating, people do not always understand it, doctors never talk about it, does it really work, etc etc

Elucidating the fertile window via hormonal measurements speaks a scientific language to this " Enlightened Age " that may appeal to those who would otherwise tune us out. How do we win back the contraceptors? With faith and reason. With science and scripture. With research and holy example.

It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both.With utmost respect and Blessings to you and your most important work, rebeccaSent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:04:29 -0400To: <nfpprofessionals >ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

,

I appreciate your citing of the stats, but this is where we all began, in the late 70’s and early 80’s. Rather than just take a cross section of users, longitudinal data which reflect the growth of couples as they come to terms with uniting sexuality and fertility in their minds and behavioral choices are needed. Even Kathy Stein Greenblat found a reduction of intercourse events as couples had children, aged, had more activities, and found they needed appointments to get together. I have written about Violet Kimani’s study of our OM users in Kenya, which reflected similar growth.. I’ll be glad to send it to anyone requesting it.

I appreciate Theresa’s Liliana’s and ’s inputs. Years ago there were heated discussions whether NFP was just another method of family planning, or a way of life. The evidence favors the latter. That’s another reason why I began Teen STAR. We need to reach teens before they settle into the contraceptive mind set..

Hanna

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Liliana Cote de Bejarano

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:16 PMTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

In our experience teaching CrMS we have noticed how some clients can implement the rules for avoiding a pregnancy and work implementing

SPICE spiritual, physical, intellectuall,communicative and emotional interaction and support during the times of abstinence. Yes we have seen " unplanned pregnancies " Yes, for some couples abstinence is cross. In a very personal opinion in married couples, for men the cross is to abstain, for women the cross is to be open. But there is hope, working in all these aspects of SPICE called by JPII the " Inner soul of human sexuality " , couples can grow in charity, love, understanding, generosity and all the virtues needed for this state of life. Totally agree about abstinence before marriage and avoid use of contraception to be able to implement NFP rules.

Liliana Cote de Bejarano MD, MPH, CFCPPS: Talking about couples with infertility where the it is important to differentiate between an ovulatory event VS true ovulation, hormonal testing can be done to confirm ovulation. Also follicle tracking by ultrasound is valuable to monitor follicle rupture .

To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:50 AM

Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.

Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.

Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 2, 2012

Sorry to keep popping up.

For those with problems with waiting as Hanna calls it, would it help

them if they knew when the waiting would be over and how long it would

last/

Len

At 03:50 a.m. 3/05/2012, you wrote:

I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have

worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies

from couple to couple.

Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not

have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain

before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as

well as behavioral techniques.

Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include

the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception

of various types.

D

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature

after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 2, 2012

Fr Habiger of NFP Outreach claims that over 90% of Catholic physicians are willing to prescribe artificial birth control (abc). They are seen at Mass on weekends, and are often best friends with the pastor. That example and the failure of the pastor to condemn abc as intrinsically evil from the pulpit for all to hear gives the average Catholic the impression that abc use is not a big deal. I think has stated that the sterilization rate is higher for Catholics than average, perhaps reflecting knowledge of the potential abortifacient mechanism of hormonal birth control and the desire not to abort. I think these are factors that mitigate against Catholics being interested in NFP.Steve KoobTo: nfpprofessionals From: oconnor1124@...Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:53:57 -0400Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

I agree that we need to educate the teens. 100%!!! I think we also need to separate NFP methods from the Umbrella of NFP and teach the methods of NFP at medical schools and nursing schools, the way that the different types of contraceptives are taught. The "generalized" current response by ObGyns, CNMs and family practitioners is that the umbrella of NFP is ineffective and it's "not family planning" - which I'm sure you are all painfully aware. I think we need to get NFP into the culture somehow, like having people using NFP (in a positive light) on a prime-time popular TV show. Get NFP talked about in the popular magazines - Prevention, Glamour, Cosmo.... I just don't know how to do it. Does anyone have "connections"?

-

Personally, I believe only 1% of Catholics use NFP because many of them have never even heard about it - not only have they not heard about it from their physicians, but also from their parents or from the pulpit. By the time the church finally teaches NFP to it's members during marriage prep, couples have been hearing about and/or using artificial contraception for 10 or more years. By then it is difficult to undo all the damage that has been done because they may have learned that "the pill" is the panacea for women's reproductive health needs.

Therefore, I firmly believe that the Catholic Church needs to teach it members at an early age to appreciate the gift of their fertility, so they can respect their body and their ability to create new life. I think making a program like TeenSTAR a part of confirmation prep would go a long way in encouraging Catholics to use NFP later on in their marriages.

Ironically teen STAR is widely taught oversees but not so much here in the USA. We need to change that.Sincerely,Marguerite DuaneSent from my iPhone

Of course I would agree with you entirely. NFP has brought my husband and I closer together and it IS truly a way of life. It is hard for BOTH of us at times. We have 6 little lives thanks to the openness to life NFP promotes.

But the stats that we should be looking at are the 1 percent of Catholics using NFP. Why so low? NFP has been around a long time now. Lots of reasons of course but ultimately because it IS hard, it can be frustrating, people do not always understand it, doctors never talk about it, does it really work, etc etc

Elucidating the fertile window via hormonal measurements speaks a scientific language to this "Enlightened Age" that may appeal to those who would otherwise tune us out. How do we win back the contraceptors? With faith and reason. With science and scripture. With research and holy example.

It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both.With utmost respect and Blessings to you and your most important work, rebeccaSent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:04:29 -0400To: <nfpprofessionals >ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

,

I appreciate your citing of the stats, but this is where we all began, in the late 70’s and early 80’s. Rather than just take a cross section of users, longitudinal data which reflect the growth of couples as they come to terms with uniting sexuality and fertility in their minds and behavioral choices are needed. Even Kathy Stein Greenblat found a reduction of intercourse events as couples had children, aged, had more activities, and found they needed appointments to get together. I have written about Violet Kimani’s study of our OM users in Kenya, which reflected similar growth.. I’ll be glad to send it to anyone requesting it.

I appreciate Theresa’s Liliana’s and ’s inputs. Years ago there were heated discussions whether NFP was just another method of family planning, or a way of life. The evidence favors the latter. That’s another reason why I began Teen STAR. We need to reach teens before they settle into the contraceptive mind set..

Hanna

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Liliana Cote de Bejarano

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:16 PMTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

In our experience teaching CrMS we have noticed how some clients can implement the rules for avoiding a pregnancy and work implementing

SPICE spiritual, physical, intellectuall,communicative and emotional interaction and support during the times of abstinence. Yes we have seen "unplanned pregnancies" Yes, for some couples abstinence is cross. In a very personal opinion in married couples, for men the cross is to abstain, for women the cross is to be open. But there is hope, working in all these aspects of SPICE called by JPII the "Inner soul of human sexuality", couples can grow in charity, love, understanding, generosity and all the virtues needed for this state of life. Totally agree about abstinence before marriage and avoid use of contraception to be able to implement NFP rules.

Liliana Cote de Bejarano MD, MPH, CFCPPS: Talking about couples with infertility where the it is important to differentiate between an ovulatory event VS true ovulation, hormonal testing can be done to confirm ovulation. Also follicle tracking by ultrasound is valuable to monitor follicle rupture .

To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:50 AM

Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.

Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.

Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 3, 2012

" It is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy. "

Living a good Christian life involves virtue including chastity. Consider the chaste unmarried, religious, priest and married couples who during extended periods of absence remain chaste. Those in the military come to mind. Of course, none of these can abstain without grace and strong faith. Some may possess natural faith. The marital act should always be open to pregnancy although it may specifically not be intended. I would think this should be the basis of discussion with couples who wish to use NFP. Why I support TeenSTAR and parents who instill such Christian

virtue in the their children. For some, if not many, lacking this understanding may certainly pose greater difficulty but that is our call as good Christians. No one every said that virtue was easy. Still absence, the separation of couples, unintended or not, should make the heart grow fonder.

Fr. Tom Bartolomeo

Hanna (Dr. Klaus):

I don’t think that this is necessarily an un-tested assumption. We have close to 3,000 couples in our online site and abstinence is one of the major complaints.

Abstinence also is one of the common complaints and struggles by couples in use of NFP – in psychological/behavioral studies – including one that I have published with my midwifery colleagues. I could fill pages and pages of comments from couples in our online

discussion room on this topic.

The evidence can also be found with efficacy studies in looking at the difference between Correct use and Typical use of a method. With NFP methods there is

often a big difference in Correct use and Typical use pregnancy rates – NFP methods that are close to 100% correct use and then only 80% typical – (i.e., the differences in the two numbers) indicate difficulty in use of the method. It is easy to get high

Correct use figures when on average 60-70% of the menstrual cycle is considered fertile – but it is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the

couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy.

J. Fehring

Professor

Marquette University

College of Nursing

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of Hanna Klaus

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:04 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Time to raise a fundamental question

It may be time to ask whether the issue is really to make the days of abstinence as short as possible, or if we are dealing with untested assumptions?

When we began offering the Ovulation method in St. Louis we invited acceptors to a group session. What we heard was that the women, who had been using the

pill up to that point, were initially afraid of their husband’s reactions if they told them “no”. they discovered that the spouses were quite amenable to waiting until the fertile phase had passed, and were not standing there with a stop watch. We had

similar feedback in Kenya, when a woman told us I’m not saying ‘no” I’m saying WE are fertile..

What are some of your experiences with asking couples to wait (I don’t use the word abstain… )

Hanna Klaus

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of rbamer2@...

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:40 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Dear Len, thank you for your gracious reply. As someone who made it through med school and residency within the last 15 years and never heard a peep about NFP or the ability for women to monitor their cervical mucus, BBTs or perform urinary hormonal testing,

I for one am thankful for you helping to disseminate Dr Browns findings, and for all the others in this group who have made such great contributions to the field as well.

I have read Types of ovarian activity in women and their significance: the continuum and also A Study of Returning Fertility After Childbirth and During Lactation by Measurement of Urinary Estrogen and Pregnanediol Excretion and Cervical Mucus Production. Are

there any other articles which you feel we should read?

How does the Brown Monitor differ from the Clearblue or Persona monitors?

If we want to convince medical professionals to learn about and offer NFP in their practices, it would be good for all of us to study the hormonal changes which create the readily observable fertile signs. This science, if further developed and made readily

understandable to physicians and NFP Instructors alike, would unite all of the various NFP methods. One could still teach most people, i.e., a variant of the ovulation method, and it would suffice. But as the situation changes for the woman (the continuum)

or for the " forgotten women of NFP " there would be other options. Of course, I realize that all of our methods have attempted to adapt our rules for patients who have special circumstances and the efficacy of these adaptations need to be further studied.

I would look forward to a conference where your work would be summarized or reviewed again for those of us who are just beginning this journey.

Blessings to you and your work,

Dr Peck, MD, CCD, Marquette NFP Instructor

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:48:08 +1200

To: <nfpprofessionals >

ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 3, 2012

Well said Father.Steve Usala

" It is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy. "

Living a good Christian life involves virtue including chastity. Consider the chaste unmarried, religious, priest and married couples who during extended periods of absence remain chaste. Those in the military come to mind. Of course, none of these can abstain without grace and strong faith. Some may possess natural faith. The marital act should always be open to pregnancy although it may specifically not be intended. I would think this should be the basis of discussion with couples who wish to use NFP. Why I support TeenSTAR and parents who instill such Christian

virtue in the their children. For some, if not many, lacking this understanding may certainly pose greater difficulty but that is our call as good Christians. No one every said that virtue was easy. Still absence, the separation of couples, unintended or not, should make the heart grow fonder.

Fr. Tom Bartolomeo

Hanna (Dr. Klaus):

I don’t think that this is necessarily an un-tested assumption. We have close to 3,000 couples in our online site and abstinence is one of the major complaints.

Abstinence also is one of the common complaints and struggles by couples in use of NFP – in psychological/behavioral studies – including one that I have published with my midwifery colleagues. I could fill pages and pages of comments from couples in our online

discussion room on this topic.

The evidence can also be found with efficacy studies in looking at the difference between Correct use and Typical use of a method. With NFP methods there is

often a big difference in Correct use and Typical use pregnancy rates – NFP methods that are close to 100% correct use and then only 80% typical – (i.e., the differences in the two numbers) indicate difficulty in use of the method. It is easy to get high

Correct use figures when on average 60-70% of the menstrual cycle is considered fertile – but it is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the

couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy.

J. Fehring

Professor

Marquette University

College of Nursing

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of Hanna Klaus

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:04 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Time to raise a fundamental question

It may be time to ask whether the issue is really to make the days of abstinence as short as possible, or if we are dealing with untested assumptions?

When we began offering the Ovulation method in St. Louis we invited acceptors to a group session. What we heard was that the women, who had been using the

pill up to that point, were initially afraid of their husband’s reactions if they told them “no”. they discovered that the spouses were quite amenable to waiting until the fertile phase had passed, and were not standing there with a stop watch. We had

similar feedback in Kenya, when a woman told us I’m not saying ‘no” I’m saying WE are fertile..

What are some of your experiences with asking couples to wait (I don’t use the word abstain… )

Hanna Klaus

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of rbamer2@...

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:40 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Dear Len, thank you for your gracious reply. As someone who made it through med school and residency within the last 15 years and never heard a peep about NFP or the ability for women to monitor their cervical mucus, BBTs or perform urinary hormonal testing,

I for one am thankful for you helping to disseminate Dr Browns findings, and for all the others in this group who have made such great contributions to the field as well.

I have read Types of ovarian activity in women and their significance: the continuum and also A Study of Returning Fertility After Childbirth and During Lactation by Measurement of Urinary Estrogen and Pregnanediol Excretion and Cervical Mucus Production. Are

there any other articles which you feel we should read?

How does the Brown Monitor differ from the Clearblue or Persona monitors?

If we want to convince medical professionals to learn about and offer NFP in their practices, it would be good for all of us to study the hormonal changes which create the readily observable fertile signs. This science, if further developed and made readily

understandable to physicians and NFP Instructors alike, would unite all of the various NFP methods. One could still teach most people, i.e., a variant of the ovulation method, and it would suffice. But as the situation changes for the woman (the continuum)

or for the " forgotten women of NFP " there would be other options. Of course, I realize that all of our methods have attempted to adapt our rules for patients who have special circumstances and the efficacy of these adaptations need to be further studied.

I would look forward to a conference where your work would be summarized or reviewed again for those of us who are just beginning this journey.

Blessings to you and your work,

Dr Peck, MD, CCD, Marquette NFP Instructor

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:48:08 +1200

To: <nfpprofessionals >

ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

-- J. Usala, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.C.P.Amarillo Medical Specialists, Endocrinology & DiabetesVice President, AMS Rheology & Reproduction, Inc

Clinical Associate Professor, TTU HSC, Amarillo, TXAdjunct Associate Professor, Department of Chemical Engineering, TTU, Lubbock, TXSuite 4051215 S. CoulterAmarillo, TX 79106

cell:ofc:home:fax:677-2014email:stephenusala@...

May 3, 2012

I second that.Penny on

Well said Father.Steve Usala

" It is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy. "

Living a good Christian life involves virtue including chastity. Consider the chaste unmarried, religious, priest and married couples who during extended periods of absence remain chaste. Those in the military come to mind. Of course, none of these can abstain without grace and strong faith. Some may possess natural faith. The marital act should always be open to pregnancy although it may specifically not be intended. I would think this should be the basis of discussion with couples who wish to use NFP. Why I support TeenSTAR and parents who instill such Christian

virtue in the their children. For some, if not many, lacking this understanding may certainly pose greater difficulty but that is our call as good Christians. No one every said that virtue was easy. Still absence, the separation of couples, unintended or not, should make the heart grow fonder.

Fr. Tom Bartolomeo

Hanna (Dr. Klaus):

I don’t think that this is necessarily an un-tested assumption. We have close to 3,000 couples in our online site and abstinence is one of the major complaints.

Abstinence also is one of the common complaints and struggles by couples in use of NFP – in psychological/behavioral studies – including one that I have published with my midwifery colleagues. I could fill pages and pages of comments from couples in our online

discussion room on this topic.

The evidence can also be found with efficacy studies in looking at the difference between Correct use and Typical use of a method. With NFP methods there is

often a big difference in Correct use and Typical use pregnancy rates – NFP methods that are close to 100% correct use and then only 80% typical – (i.e., the differences in the two numbers) indicate difficulty in use of the method. It is easy to get high

Correct use figures when on average 60-70% of the menstrual cycle is considered fertile – but it is difficult for the couples to practice periodic abstinence that long. Most unintended pregnancy with NFP use are during an estimated fertile phase when the

couple know it is the estimated fertile phase --- and they knowingly “take a chance” -- however, they still consider it an unintended pregnancy.

J. Fehring

Professor

Marquette University

College of Nursing

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of Hanna Klaus

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:04 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Time to raise a fundamental question

It may be time to ask whether the issue is really to make the days of abstinence as short as possible, or if we are dealing with untested assumptions?

When we began offering the Ovulation method in St. Louis we invited acceptors to a group session. What we heard was that the women, who had been using the

pill up to that point, were initially afraid of their husband’s reactions if they told them “no”. they discovered that the spouses were quite amenable to waiting until the fertile phase had passed, and were not standing there with a stop watch. We had

similar feedback in Kenya, when a woman told us I’m not saying ‘no” I’m saying WE are fertile..

What are some of your experiences with asking couples to wait (I don’t use the word abstain… )

Hanna Klaus

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of rbamer2@...

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:40 AM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Dear Len, thank you for your gracious reply. As someone who made it through med school and residency within the last 15 years and never heard a peep about NFP or the ability for women to monitor their cervical mucus, BBTs or perform urinary hormonal testing,

I for one am thankful for you helping to disseminate Dr Browns findings, and for all the others in this group who have made such great contributions to the field as well.

I have read Types of ovarian activity in women and their significance: the continuum and also A Study of Returning Fertility After Childbirth and During Lactation by Measurement of Urinary Estrogen and Pregnanediol Excretion and Cervical Mucus Production. Are

there any other articles which you feel we should read?

How does the Brown Monitor differ from the Clearblue or Persona monitors?

If we want to convince medical professionals to learn about and offer NFP in their practices, it would be good for all of us to study the hormonal changes which create the readily observable fertile signs. This science, if further developed and made readily

understandable to physicians and NFP Instructors alike, would unite all of the various NFP methods. One could still teach most people, i.e., a variant of the ovulation method, and it would suffice. But as the situation changes for the woman (the continuum)

or for the " forgotten women of NFP " there would be other options. Of course, I realize that all of our methods have attempted to adapt our rules for patients who have special circumstances and the efficacy of these adaptations need to be further studied.

I would look forward to a conference where your work would be summarized or reviewed again for those of us who are just beginning this journey.

Blessings to you and your work,

Dr Peck, MD, CCD, Marquette NFP Instructor

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:48:08 +1200

To: <nfpprofessionals >

ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

-- J. Usala, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.C.P.Amarillo Medical Specialists, Endocrinology & DiabetesVice President, AMS Rheology & Reproduction, Inc

Clinical Associate Professor, TTU HSC, Amarillo, TXAdjunct Associate Professor, Department of Chemical Engineering, TTU, Lubbock, TXSuite 4051215 S. Coulter

Amarillo, TX 79106

cell:ofc:home:fax:677-2014email:stephenusala@...

-- " I am making Myself dependent upon your trust: if your trust is great, then My generosity will be without limit. "

~Jesus to St. Faustina~Diary 548

May 3, 2012

It is true Father Tom, and I think there are slightly different considerations here of a pastoral and evangelical nature for those of us who are Catholics, because at least a significant part of our motivation is the appeal to both the rationality and the attractiveness of the Church's teaching. It musn't be forgotten that raising the bar -- making something more arduous not less -- can be an inherently attractive thing, as we se in many of life's endeavors (one thinks of the extraordinarily demanding sacrifices of the Navy Seals for instance), but it also musn't be forgotten that what we offer must be as excellent as the current state of the art will allow. No less will suffice. Sacrifice will never become unnecessary, but neither will the pursuit of excellence.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

"...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself." (Inter Insignores)

Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 3, 2012

In the " mix of things " I reflect, sadly, that so many have little interest in having children witnessed in the Western world where only three of the thirty-eight modern industrialized nations are not repopulating their current numbers, notably Japan and Russia whose birthrate is .06% where 2.2% is

needed to maintain their current population. Their importance in humanity will thereby decrease while the Muslim world exceeds the base population of the world. What will be the outcome of humanity which does not follow the only command given in creation in Genesis, " increase and multiply " ?

Fr. Tom Bartolomeo

It is true Father Tom, and I think there are slightly different considerations here of a pastoral and evangelical nature for those of us who are Catholics, because at least a significant part of our motivation is the appeal to both the rationality and the attractiveness of the Church's teaching. It musn't be forgotten that raising the bar -- making something more arduous not less -- can be an inherently attractive thing, as we se in many of life's endeavors (one thinks of the extraordinarily demanding sacrifices of the Navy Seals for instance), but it also musn't be forgotten that what we offer must be as excellent as the current state of the art will allow. No less will suffice. Sacrifice will never become unnecessary, but neither will the pursuit of excellence.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

" ...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself. " (Inter Insignores)

Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 3, 2012

We will disappear. It is that simple. But we will not disappear if the contraceptive mentality is eventually overcome. But for those caught in the contraceptive lifestyle, it is a powerful diabolical addiction for many, and cannot simply be overcome by telling them to have children, or by telling them to appreciate the gift of children. This (children) is for many of them (again not all but indeed many) their greatest fear and loathing, and needs special help, and for them NFP is almost a form of reparative therapy, affording a chance of normative marital union, normative intimacy, that in time will help "repair" the damage done by years of contraceptive affective conditioning.

Contraception is indeed diabolical.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

"...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself." (Inter Insignores)

Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 3, 2012

In her book, Catholics and Contraception (cornellpress.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/catholics-and-contraception/), the author reviews the history of contraception in America, and how Priests would preach Missions in the late 1800s and into the early to mid 1900s about the use of withdrawl, condoms, diaphragms and other agents of contraception (even before the "pill" was available). The contraceptive mindset has long been with us it seems, even before the advent of the pill. Casti Connubi was written in 1930 (approx) to respond to the division that Lambath created over "birth control". The pill succeeded in large part, because Margaret Sanger was able to bring the topic of contraception out from hidden magazines into the doctors offices. She was able to convince

the medical profession to prescribe contraception as a service to women. Then Humanae Vitae came, and more divisions occurred. Priests were not sure where other Priests stood on the topic. Bishops, Priests and moral theologians engaged in frank dissent. The uncertainty of their own brethen's stance on this issue, coupled with the aggressive push of the medical community to prescribe OCPS has helped to make the birth control pill the most prescribed pill to young and middle aged women. Nurses, Doctors, NFP Instructors, and Priests must stand together to push back the contraceptive mentality in every way possible. I, as just one physician, want to stand with all of you to help fight back. Blessings, Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP InstructorPecks Family Practice,

PLC1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2AOrmond Beach, FL 32174 fax: cell: To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Thursday, May 3,

2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

We will disappear. It is that simple. But we will not disappear if the contraceptive mentality is eventually overcome. But for those caught in the contraceptive lifestyle, it is a powerful diabolical addiction for many, and cannot simply be overcome by telling them to have children, or by telling them to appreciate the gift of children. This (children) is for many of them (again not all but indeed many) their greatest fear and loathing, and needs special help, and for them NFP is almost a form of reparative therapy, affording a chance of normative marital union, normative intimacy, that in time will help "repair" the damage done by years of contraceptive affective conditioning.

Contraception is indeed diabolical.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

"...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself." (Inter Insignores)

Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 3, 2012

For the record,Â it was Maureen Ball who gave a talk on waiting vs. abstaining at the FIDAF meeting in Ottawaâ€¦Â knowing how long to wait helps, and we can say at least this much: untilÂ Â Â the fourth day after peak!UntilÂ the advent of condoms,Â men practiced withdrawal if they wanted to avoid impregnating their wivesÂ with mixed resultsâ€¦ thenÂ condoms,Â then IUDâ€™s and OCâ€™sÂ Â and the dominant culture hasÂ jumped on that and reduced all of sexuality to the genital expressionâ€¦Â Â The culture has to learn many thingsâ€¦not only how to delay gratification,Â but fundamentals of relationships.Â The impulse for my Holistic Sexuality project at a local junior collegeÂ came from a conversation the director of student life had with a boy who had related having sex with a number of women.Â When asked about his relationship with these women he answered â€œwhatâ€™s that got to do with it?â€Â Â All in our small Â group Â Â were sexually experienced but remained abstinent for the semester.Â Their reasonsÂ --- too busy! Hanna From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Len BlackwellSent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:08 PMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question Sorry to keep popping up.For those with problems with waiting as Hanna calls it, would it help them if they knew when the waiting would be over and how long it would last/LenAt 03:50 a.m. 3/05/2012, you wrote: I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types. D Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing? Kippley

May 3, 2012

Dr. Peck:I present NFP exclusively in my practice. I 'get by' since I mainly do adult endocrine & diabetes. My wife is the director of NFP in the Amarillo diocese. It is a requirement for marriage in the Amarillo diocese to at least have completed a course in NFP. Although the enthusiasm for this is 'mixed', the Amarillo diocese has stood firm on this under Bishop Yanta and now Bishop Zurek.

If more dioceses made an NFP course a requirement for marriage in the Church, this would be a good thing at various levels.Steve Usala

In her book, Catholics and Contraception (cornellpress.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/catholics-and-contraception/), the author reviews the history of contraception in America, and how Priests would preach Missions in the late 1800s and into the early to mid 1900s about the use of withdrawl, condoms, diaphragms and other agents of contraception (even before the " pill " was available). The contraceptive mindset has long been with us it seems, even before the advent of the pill. Casti Connubi was written in 1930 (approx) to respond to the division that Lambath created over " birth control " . The pill succeeded in large part, because Margaret Sanger was able to bring the topic of contraception out from hidden magazines into the doctors offices. She was able to convince

the medical profession to prescribe contraception as a service to women. Then Humanae Vitae came, and more divisions occurred. Priests were not sure where other Priests stood on the topic. Bishops, Priests and moral theologians engaged in frank dissent. The uncertainty of their own brethen's stance on this issue, coupled with the aggressive push of the medical community to prescribe OCPS has helped to make the birth control pill the most prescribed pill to young and middle aged women. Nurses, Doctors, NFP Instructors, and Priests must stand together to push back the contraceptive mentality in every way possible. I, as just one physician, want to stand with all of you to help fight back. Blessings,

Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP InstructorPecks Family Practice,

PLC1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2AOrmond Beach, FL 32174 fax: cell:

To: nfpprofessionals

Sent: Thursday, May 3,

2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

We will disappear. It is that simple. But we will not disappear if the contraceptive mentality is eventually overcome. But for those caught in the contraceptive lifestyle, it is a powerful diabolical addiction for many, and cannot simply be overcome by telling them to have children, or by telling them to appreciate the gift of children. This (children) is for many of them (again not all but indeed many) their greatest fear and loathing, and needs special help, and for them NFP is almost a form of reparative therapy, affording a chance of normative marital union, normative intimacy, that in time will help " repair " the damage done by years of contraceptive affective conditioning.

Contraception is indeed diabolical.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

" ...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself. " (Inter Insignores)

Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

-- J. Usala, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.C.P.Amarillo Medical Specialists, Endocrinology & DiabetesVice President, AMS Rheology & Reproduction, Inc

Clinical Associate Professor, TTU HSC, Amarillo, TXAdjunct Associate Professor, Department of Chemical Engineering, TTU, Lubbock, TXSuite 4051215 S. CoulterAmarillo, TX 79106

cell:ofc:home:fax:677-2014email:stephenusala@...

May 3, 2012

Dr Marguerite Duane started this at town’s Med School a few years ago. All the methods, how they work, comparative effectiveness, witness couples, doctors,

use for medical problems, etc. Fantastic. You are correct. This needs to be in the medical curriculum. At town, it’s been an elective, but with decent interest.

From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of & Dan O'C.

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 6:54 PM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

I agree that we need to educate the teens. 100%!!! I think we also need to separate NFP methods from the Umbrella of NFP and teach the methods of NFP at medical schools and nursing schools, the way that the different types of contraceptives are taught. The

" generalized " current response by ObGyns, CNMs and family practitioners is that the umbrella of NFP is ineffective and it's " not family planning " - which I'm sure you are all painfully aware. I think we need to get NFP into the culture somehow, like having

people using NFP (in a positive light) on a prime-time popular TV show. Get NFP talked about in the popular magazines - Prevention, Glamour, Cosmo.... I just don't know how to do it. Does anyone have " connections " ?

-

Personally, I believe only 1% of Catholics use NFP because many of them have never even heard about it - not only have they not heard about it from their physicians, but also from their parents or from the pulpit. By the time the church

finally teaches NFP to it's members during marriage prep, couples have been hearing about and/or using artificial contraception for 10 or more years. By then it is difficult to undo all the damage that has been done because they may have learned that " the

pill " is the panacea for women's reproductive health needs.

Therefore, I firmly believe that the Catholic Church needs to teach it members at an early age to appreciate the gift of their fertility, so they can respect their body and their ability to create new life. I think making a program like

TeenSTAR a part of confirmation prep would go a long way in encouraging Catholics to use NFP later on in their marriages.

Ironically teen STAR is widely taught oversees but not so much here in the USA. We need to change that.

Sincerely,

Marguerite Duane

Sent from my iPhone

Of course I would agree with you entirely. NFP has brought my husband and I closer together and it IS truly a way of life. It is hard for BOTH of us at times. We have 6 little lives thanks to the openness to life NFP promotes.

But the stats that we should be looking at are the 1 percent of Catholics using NFP. Why so low? NFP has been around a long time now. Lots of reasons of course but ultimately because it IS hard, it can be frustrating, people do not always understand it, doctors

never talk about it, does it really work, etc etc

Elucidating the fertile window via hormonal measurements speaks a scientific language to this " Enlightened Age " that may appeal to those who would otherwise tune us out. How do we win back the contraceptors? With faith and reason. With science and scripture.

With research and holy example.

It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both.

With utmost respect and Blessings to you and your most important work, rebecca

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Sender: nfpprofessionals

Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:04:29 -0400

To: <nfpprofessionals >

ReplyTo: nfpprofessionals

Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

,

I appreciate your citing of the stats, but this is where we all began, in the late 70’s and early 80’s. Rather than just take a cross

section of users, longitudinal data which reflect the growth of couples as they come to terms with uniting sexuality and fertility in their minds and behavioral choices are needed. Even Kathy Stein Greenblat found a reduction of intercourse events as couples

had children, aged, had more activities, and found they needed appointments to get together. I have written about Violet Kimani’s study of our OM users in Kenya, which reflected similar growth.. I’ll be glad to send it to anyone requesting it.

I appreciate Theresa’s Liliana’s and ’s inputs. Years ago there were heated discussions whether NFP was just another method of

family planning, or a way of life. The evidence favors the latter. That’s another reason why I began Teen STAR. We need to reach teens before they settle into the contraceptive mind set..

Hanna

From:

nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of Liliana Cote de Bejarano

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 2:16 PM

To: nfpprofessionals

Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

In our experience teaching CrMS we have noticed how some clients can implement the rules for avoiding a pregnancy and work implementing

SPICE spiritual, physical, intellectuall,communicative and emotional interaction and support during the times of abstinence. Yes we have seen " unplanned pregnancies " Yes, for some couples abstinence is cross. In a very personal

opinion in married couples, for men the cross is to abstain, for women the cross is to be open. But there is hope, working in all these aspects of SPICE called by JPII the " Inner soul of human sexuality " , couples can grow in charity, love, understanding,

generosity and all the virtues needed for this state of life. Totally agree about abstinence before marriage and avoid use of contraception to be able to implement NFP rules.

Liliana Cote de Bejarano MD, MPH, CFCP

PS: Talking about couples with infertility where the it is important to differentiate between an ovulatory event VS true ovulation, hormonal testing can be done to confirm ovulation. Also follicle tracking by ultrasound is valuable

to monitor follicle rupture .

To: nfpprofessionals

Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:50 AM

Subject: RE: Time to raise a fundamental question

I think this is a valuable topic. In my experience with couples I have worked with as well as that of local NFP teachers, this obviously varies from couple to couple.

Our observation is that couples who abstained before marriage did not have a problem with abstinence with NFP, but couples who did NOT abstain before marriage had more trouble. This is overcome through prayer, as well as behavioral techniques.

Future studies on the topic of difficulty with abstinence should include the variables of premarital intercourse and previous use of contraception of various types.

D

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

May 3, 2012

I know it has been said before, but using Christ’s model in meeting “them where they are”- already entrenched in the contraceptive mentality, we, as physicians and healthcare providers, need to impress upon our patients the fertility is NOT a disease to be medicated, surgerized, burned, cut or blocked, that hormones (i.e. pill) are dangerous and have risks (WHI did that for menopausal women and they stopped their hormones overnight!) and IF they desired a family planning method that worked and promoted their health and their marriages and their families, then NFP – no matter which “type” is the way to go. Once this is there, we will need an “infrastructure” of teachers, supporters and materials and programs to offer on a large scale- which, now, in my opinion, we do not have. For example, our Archdiocese in Phila instructs about 100 couples through the Family Life Office; we have about 5000 marriages every year in the Archdiocese; we have 8 total instructors certified for 260 parishes (2 Hispanic). If all 5500 couples getting married needed instruction in NFP before they married, the FLO would not be able to handle it – we would have to teach 96 couples every week! We ALL need to collaborate and offer ALL modalities and be supportive of all of them regardless of which ONE we personally teach or support. A national symposium or collaborative meeting to discuss our agreements and our needs would be a good first step; implementation plans as a template could be drawn up; they could be made available to the Dioceses, Bishops and Catholic hospital systems and go from there. Just some musings. We have a Phila Natural Family Planning Network of over 600 on a mailing list with about 25 paid dues members and this is not supported nor supplemented by anyone other than the 7 people on the board. We have a quarterly newsletter, an annual conference(about 100 attendees) and a website (on which our talks from the last two years are there for free for download-pnfpn.org for those interested). We subsist on donations. We have done billboards. We have no office other than a P.O. Box and use a warehouse office donated for our meetings. We are 13 yrs old and we will continue to spread the word, but there is too much fragmentation to have a consistently well received message.Les Ruppersberger,D.O.Pres PNFPN From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of UsalaSent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:16 AMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question Dr. Peck: I present NFP exclusively in my practice. I 'get by' since I mainly do adult endocrine & diabetes. My wife is the director of NFP in the Amarillo diocese. It is a requirement for marriage in the Amarillo diocese to at least have completed a course in NFP. Although the enthusiasm for this is 'mixed', the Amarillo diocese has stood firm on this under Bishop Yanta and now Bishop Zurek. If more dioceses made an NFP course a requirement for marriage in the Church, this would be a good thing at various levels. Steve Usala In her book, Catholics and Contraception (cornellpress.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/catholics-and-contraception/), the author reviews the history of contraception in America, and how Priests would preach Missions in the late 1800s and into the early to mid 1900s about the use of withdrawl, condoms, diaphragms and other agents of contraception (even before the " pill " was available). The contraceptive mindset has long been with us it seems, even before the advent of the pill. Casti Connubi was written in 1930 (approx) to respond to the division that Lambath created over " birth control " . The pill succeeded in large part, because Margaret Sanger was able to bring the topic of contraception out from hidden magazines into the doctors offices. She was able to convince the medical profession to prescribe contraception as a service to women. Then Humanae Vitae came, and more divisions occurred. Priests were not sure where other Priests stood on the topic. Bishops, Priests and moral theologians engaged in frank dissent. The uncertainty of their own brethen's stance on this issue, coupled with the aggressive push of the medical community to prescribe OCPS has helped to make the birth control pill the most prescribed pill to young and middle aged women. Nurses, Doctors, NFP Instructors, and Priests must stand together to push back the contraceptive mentality in every way possible. I, as just one physician, want to stand with all of you to help fight back. Blessings, Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP InstructorPecks Family Practice, PLC1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2AOrmond Beach, FL 32174 fax: cell: To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:39 AMSubject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question We will disappear. It is that simple. But we will not disappear if the contraceptive mentality is eventually overcome. But for those caught in the contraceptive lifestyle, it is a powerful diabolical addiction for many, and cannot simply be overcome by telling them to have children, or by telling them to appreciate the gift of children. This (children) is for many of them (again not all but indeed many) their greatest fear and loathing, and needs special help, and for them NFP is almost a form of reparative therapy, affording a chance of normative marital union, normative intimacy, that in time will help " repair " the damage done by years of contraceptive affective conditioning. Contraception is indeed diabolical. Sincerely yours, Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...) Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com) (office) (cell) (FAX)pedullad@... " ...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself. " (Inter Insignores) Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording? --- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording? Yes in principle. With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to discuss this. Len Blackwell Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing? Kippley -- J. Usala, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.C.P.Amarillo Medical Specialists, Endocrinology & DiabetesVice President, AMS Rheology & Reproduction, IncClinical Associate Professor, TTU HSC, Amarillo, TXAdjunct Associate Professor, Department of Chemical Engineering, TTU, Lubbock, TX Suite 4051215 S. CoulterAmarillo, TX 79106cell:ofc:home:fax:677-2014email:stephenusala@...

May 3, 2012

Dear , Thanks for your comments. Our Catholic Medical Association guild created a "network" of over 100 NFP instructors and doctors to assist our Office of Family Life in Orlando, Florida. (We initially had only 2-3 instructors and just a couple of physicians). There is much that can be done when a committed group of people work under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. However, one of the main objections coming from our former Bishop (now ArchBishop Wenski) was that he could not recommend mandatory NFP classes until: (1) all His Priests had sufficient education in NFP and the theology behind it, and (2) he felt confident that the network of NFP providers was solidly in place to handle the anticipated increased

numbers of couples instructed. Another concern was that the number of marriages through the Catholic Church was already on the decline due to many factors. He didn't want to put up another barrier to cause couples that may have gotten married in the Catholic Church decide to marry in a Christian Church. Just another example of how we have to work together and IMHO USCCB needs to lead the charge. An example is the Fornight of Freedom -- nearly all Bishops have signed on and therefore all Priests will sign on. Why can't it be like this with NFP? Appreciate Les' comments as well regarding his efforts. Let's stop the fragmentation that has sometimes characterized the NFP effort to date and start working together...Blessings Dr. Peck, MD, CCD,

ABFM, Marquette NFP InstructorPecks Family Practice, PLC1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2AOrmond Beach, FL 32174 fax: cell: To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

Dr. Peck:I present NFP exclusively in my practice. I 'get by' since I mainly do adult endocrine & diabetes. My wife is the director of NFP in the Amarillo diocese. It is a requirement for marriage in the Amarillo diocese to at least have completed a course in NFP. Although the enthusiasm for this is 'mixed', the Amarillo diocese has stood firm on this under Bishop Yanta and now Bishop Zurek.

If more dioceses made an NFP course a requirement for marriage in the Church, this would be a good thing at various levels.Steve Usala

In her book, Catholics and Contraception (cornellpress.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/catholics-and-contraception/), the author reviews the history of contraception in America, and how Priests would preach Missions in the late 1800s and into the early to mid 1900s about the use of withdrawl, condoms, diaphragms and other agents of contraception (even before the "pill" was available). The contraceptive mindset has long been with us it seems, even before the advent of the pill. Casti Connubi was written in 1930 (approx) to respond to the division that Lambath created over "birth control". The pill succeeded in large part, because Margaret Sanger was able to bring the topic of contraception out from hidden magazines

into the doctors offices. She was able to convince

the medical profession to prescribe contraception as a service to women. Then Humanae Vitae came, and more divisions occurred. Priests were not sure where other Priests stood on the topic. Bishops, Priests and moral theologians engaged in frank dissent. The uncertainty of their own brethen's stance on this issue, coupled with the aggressive push of the medical community to prescribe OCPS has helped to make the birth control pill the most prescribed pill to young and middle aged women. Nurses, Doctors, NFP Instructors, and Priests must stand together to push back the contraceptive mentality in every way possible. I, as just one physician, want to stand with all of you to help fight back. Blessings,

Dr. Peck, MD, CCD, ABFM, Marquette NFP InstructorPecks Family Practice,

PLC1688 W Granada Blvd, Ste 2AOrmond Beach, FL 32174 fax: cell:

To: nfpprofessionals

Sent: Thursday, May 3,

2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

We will disappear. It is that simple. But we will not disappear if the contraceptive mentality is eventually overcome. But for those caught in the contraceptive lifestyle, it is a powerful diabolical addiction for many, and cannot simply be overcome by telling them to have children, or by telling them to appreciate the gift of children. This (children) is for many of them (again not all but indeed many) their greatest fear and loathing, and needs special help, and for them NFP is almost a form of reparative therapy, affording a chance of normative marital union, normative intimacy, that in time will help "repair" the damage done by years of contraceptive affective conditioning.

Contraception is indeed diabolical.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

"...the priestly ministry is not just a pastoral service; it ensures the continuity of the functions entrusted by Christ to the Apostles and the continuity of the powers related to those functions. Adaptation to civilizations and times therefore cannot abolish, on essential points, the sacramental reference to constitutive events of Christianity and to Christ himself." (Inter Insignores)

Fwd: Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

--- Re: NFP from pulpit..help with wording?

Yes in principle.

With PdG a single value will give you the answer but with the BBT you must have daily measurements and then if the BBT increase following a mucus patch was small and lasted a single day it might be difficult to interpret. However, I leave the BBT experts to

discuss this.

Len Blackwell

Wouldn't the elevation or non-elevation of the basal temperature after a mucus patch accomplish the same thing?

Kippley

-- J. Usala, M.D., Ph.D., F.A.C.P.Amarillo Medical Specialists, Endocrinology & DiabetesVice President, AMS Rheology & Reproduction, Inc

Clinical Associate Professor, TTU HSC, Amarillo, TXAdjunct Associate Professor, Department of Chemical Engineering, TTU, Lubbock, TXSuite 4051215 S. CoulterAmarillo, TX 79106

cell:ofc:home:fax:677-2014email:stephenusala@...

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Re: Time to raise a fundamental question

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