Re: Rages

[Guest guest]

I don't mean to imply that OCD is responsible for all rages or that

all kids who rage have OCD or that there's nothing else going on. I

can only speak abut the experiences I've had.

My son has PANDAS, and only exhibits mild ritual behaviors during an

episode after strep. Other times, he's intense, and he struggles with

anxiety, but he doesn't " have to " do things or have things " just

right " . It's only during a PANDAS episode that we see what I call a

rage. So in my world, the rage and the OCD only come into our house at

the same time. To me, they're part of the same disease. I realize that

might not be the case for everyone.

In my son's case, he seems to get a script in his head. His sister

should play a certain way, Christmas should be a certain kind of day,

he gets it in his head that a certain script should be followed. If

something happens that isn't in the script, and he's in an episode, he

finds it nearly impossible to just go with the flow. Like someone else

said, his gears get stuck and can't make the transition into something

unexpected. Instead, there's a meltdown. Only once we're past the

meltdown can he shift gears and move on. The trigger might not seem

like a big thing to the rest of us. Ok, it's too late to make apple

pie for Thanksgiving tonight. We'll make it in the morning. - That

precipitated a meltdown because he had an expectation in his head that

he was going to stay up late with me and make pie and have alone time

with me. To me, it wasn't a big change in plans. To him, that one

little change meant abandoning an entire script he had looked forward to.

If his coat zipper gets stuck, he gets irrate at the zipper for

" ruining his day " . To an outsider, it looks like a manipulative,

bratty kid who needs discipline. To his parents, he looks like a kid

who needs our help freeing up rusty, stuck, painfully squeaking gears.

Because when he's not in an episode, he can use words and calmly

explain what he was envisioning without resorting to tears, anger,

tantrums and screams. A stuck zipper gets handled in the same way you

or I would handle it.

Is this OCD? Maybe lots of parents here would say no, not in the

textbook definition and not in their experiences. But I do know there

are other parents here who know exactly what I'm describing and came

to this site because they too live with some more " classic " OCD

behaviors. Whether it be two separate disorders or one, the support

you need to hear when you post here saying you've lost your temper

with your child and feel awful is the same. I now I'm not the only one

here who feels their child is on the brink of insanity one minute and

then ok an hour later. Who sees their child use " manic " energy in an

attempt to distract himself from feelings he can't describe and can't

stand (but has no signs of ADHD or bipolar).

Sorry for the very long post. It's just so hard to explain and yet if

you've lived it, you know exactly what I'm describing.

>

> ,

>

> I agree with every thing you have suggested. I am curious that

> you seem to say that OCD accounts for rages triggered by the smallest

> thing. Could you expand on that? Thanks

>

> Dorelle

>

[Guest guest]

You are welcome. )

BJ

> >

> > I just found some great info in Dr Aureen Pinto Wagner's book, What to

> > do When your Child has Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Strategies and

> > Solutions.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just wanted to " weigh " in on this one. I so agree with everything

you outline, it all sounds very familiar...

I pulled out the book " Obsessive Compulsive Disorders " , by Fred

Penzel. I had taken it to the hospital in my attempt to explain what

we were dealing with at the time and read a passage that outlines

anger and aggressive behavior that can come with OCD.

This passage explains the multiple possibilities of why someone might

become angry and aggressive, including -

*Frustration built up over time to high levels where every goal in

life is being ruined by their illness - self hatred, jealousy of

others who can live normally, perpetual chip on the shoulder, easily

set off.

*Upset over rituals and other compulsions that don't go perfectly,

whether due to interuption or " just right " feeling never achieved -

Says no adequate description for what a superstitious sufferer feels,

can ruin a day, a month, even a year. This anger often directed at

family members who have inadvertantly, or even deliberately

interupted ritual/compulsion.

*Verbal aggression might be directed toward oneself, others, or

objects. Can include yelling, cursing, and being insulting.

Physically aggressive behavior is usu directed at family members, and

although can reach serious levels, very rarely ends in anything more

than pushing, shoving, splapping.

*May be a biological basis to some of this anger. Neurobiological

studies seem to indicate that the brain chemical serotonin has a part

to play in moderating anger and aggression. Impulsivity and

aggression increase as serotonin levels decrease. Also, one of the

brain structures implicated in OCD, the caudate nucleus, is known to

regulate impulses involving anxiety and aggresssion.

*The aggression may start as a way of letting out strong frustration,

but can become a " tool " which is used to control family and friends

to get them to help with rituals or avoidance. Such individuals can

only feel comfortable when they control all those around them, even

if this means using intimidation.

Having experienced all of the above with our teenaged son, there is

absolutely no doubt in my mind that " rages " /aggression can be part

and parcel with the OCD package. Since ssri's are also known to

increase aggression, but are the medications of choice for OCD, they

further add fuel to this fire.

Until, or unless all these factors reach a point of stability -

severity of the illness, insight and separation from the illness,

medication stability, maturity, comorbid conditions etc; this aspect

can truly be a living nightmare. While not all persons with OCD will

display this aspect, due to individual differences for one, many will

to varying degrees. While not considered OCD per se, it seems to me

it is perhaps a result of the " off " brain chemistry and or structure

that is the cause of the OCD that also contributes to this as

mentioned above.

Can recommend this book for really good explanations on pretty much

everything to do with OCD. Think I'll read it again...

This is indeed a not fun part that can come with OCD from our

experience!!!

Warmly,

Barb

> >

> > ,

> >

> > I agree with every thing you have suggested. I am curious

that

> > you seem to say that OCD accounts for rages triggered by the

smallest

> > thing. Could you expand on that? Thanks

> >

> > Dorelle

> >

>