Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Would someone describe in layman's terms how and if these two tools would be used the same? How are they different? Thank you, Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Teri, The VB MAPP, ABLLS and ABLLS-R are all assessment tools that break language down into the verbal operants as identified by BF Skinner in his 1957 book Verbal Behavior. Once any of the three assessments is completed, a seasoned behavior analyst or other professional with experience using a VB Approach can use the completed assessment to program for the child. Ideally the IEP should be developed after the VB assessment is completed so all IEP objectives are tied into the child's present education and language levels. My new book: The Verbal Behavior Approach: How to Teach Children with Autism and Related Disorders also has a short assessment form that I created to get you started. It also provides a step-by-step guide to teaching children with autism. For more information...check _www.vbapproach.com_ (http://www.vbapproach.com) . Here is a short post (from the Verbal Behavior listserve) of some of the advantages of using the VB MAPP over the ABLLS....from my perspective... The VB MAPP and ABLLS/ABLLS-The VB MAPP and ABLLS/ABLLS-<WBR>R are very diff things about the VB MAPP is the language barrier part of the assessment. So, you are programming not only to increase language skills but also to reduce problem behaviors. This is all tracked very carefully using the VB MAPP. The other nice thing about the VB MAPP is that each column is 15 boxes long.....bigger chunks that are all based on typically developing children's development. This will make it very conducive to research (can easily calculate pre and post VB MAPP scores). ________ Lynch Barbera, RN, MSN, BCBA _www.vbapproach._www.v_http://www.vbapproahttp:/_ (http://www.vbapproach.com/) ) ******************************************<WBR>*********<WB _http://www.aol.http_ (http://www.aol.com./) [ ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 - " Would someone describe in layman's terms how and if these two tools -would be used the same? How are they different? " -Thank you, -Teri I have seen a couple of emails about this recently on the groups so I will give it a shot as I have been using the ABLLS for several years and have seen a full-day presentation on the VB-Mapp given by Dr. Sundberg at this year's ABA Convention. I think both assessements are meant to do the same or similar things. I see little reason myself why you would want or need to do both of them for a specific child. The ABLLS is a developmentally ordered list of learning goals among 25 different categories of learning. The ABLLS Grid shows you exactly what goals your child has met and where there might be holes developed among any one category. The VB-Mapp is similar in design but instead of giving every goal as its own block on the grid. It splits the grids up into 3 levels (roughly Early, intermediate and advanced learners). It then chooses specific skills as milestones that are designed to show progress of the child in stages instead of by every individual skill. Some of the possible advantages of the VB-MAPP as I see them is that it offers you a way to see which skills you are teaching might be considered more valuable to your child than others so that you do not spend too much time fixated on minor skills and can spend more time addressing skills that have been identified as leading to milestones in learning. Also, the VB-MAPP offers a way to look at the different categories of language to know what areas are true weaknesses. It does this by putting higher level skills like Intraverbals only in the intermediate or higher level grid. Whereas in the ABBLS assessement there is no way to guage where your child should be in a category (comparied to typical learners). For example, by looking at the ABBLS grid you can see the height your child has reached in Intraverbals and tacting but you have no idea where a child should be in these areas when they have also reached a certain level in Manding and receptive. The VB-MAPP attempts to offer this with (very) rough age equivilency guidelines. I imagine that because you are only assessing milestone goals it is likely faster to administer than the ABLLS. Finally, it offers a section that allows a lay person to analyse the potential barriers to the child's learning aquisition. Instead of listing a category of Reinforcer cooperation and effectiveness, it asks you if your child is affected by any one of 20 plus common barriers to learning. Some of the possible disadvantages of the VB-MAPP is that its scoring is not as straight forward as the ABLLS. It requires the use of some subtests and trasfer of scores from subtests in order to score the basic grid and might be more difficult for parents or teachers not doing it regularly. Because it assesses Milestones, it offers a list of what would be considered by the author the most important skills to teach your child but does not attempt to be a complete list of missing skills as the ABLLS-R does. Finally, the VB-MAPP is still in development phases. The MAPP you get today might be very different from the MAPP you get next year. To be honest with you, I am not quite sure how to address this issue at the moment within my own teaching. The tried and true ABLLS, has been there for us but the new ABLLS-R makes communicating with families more difficult until we can all get up to speed in the new revisded format. The new VB-MAPP has some very nice new bells and whistles on it but I have not used it to know if it offers any new or better insights, (although I do think the Barriers section is a nice addition especially for parents without a lot of help). For now, I am still in a wait and see mode until there is a more stable VB-MAPP product to use as a comparison. Aside from my limited perspective on this (and please jump in if I have made any mistakes in my description of either assessment), I think the best thing you can do is get some information on the two assessements from the authors themselves. Both Drs Partington and Sundberg are out there telling the world of their latest creations. I recommend professionals try to see them both speak and making a decision based on that. For parents, I recommend that you look to the people you trust and find out where they see this going. Regardless, of what you prefer to use, you and your providers are likely going to have to be in agreement and working off the same grid. Does anyone else feel comfortable offering an opinion on this at this time? ________________________ Schramm, MA, BCBA www.lulu.com/knospe-aba www.knospe-aba.com ________________________ [ ] VP-MAPP and ABLLS Would someone describe in layman's terms how and if these two tools would be used the same? How are they different? Thank you, Teri <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} ..bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o {font-size:0;} ..MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} ..replbq {margin:4;} --> ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Sick sense of humor? 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Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 - " Would someone describe in layman's terms how and if these two tools -would be used the same? How are they different? " -Thank you, -Teri I have seen a couple of emails about this recently on the groups so I will give it a shot as I have been using the ABLLS for several years and have seen a full-day presentation on the VB-Mapp given by Dr. Sundberg at this year's ABA Convention. I think both assessements are meant to do the same or similar things. I see little reason myself why you would want or need to do both of them for a specific child. The ABLLS is a developmentally ordered list of learning goals among 25 different categories of learning. The ABLLS Grid shows you exactly what goals your child has met and where there might be holes developed among any one category. The VB-Mapp is similar in design but instead of giving every goal as its own block on the grid. It splits the grids up into 3 levels (roughly Early, intermediate and advanced learners). It then chooses specific skills as milestones that are designed to show progress of the child in stages instead of by every individual skill. Some of the possible advantages of the VB-MAPP as I see them is that it offers you a way to see which skills you are teaching might be considered more valuable to your child than others so that you do not spend too much time fixated on minor skills and can spend more time addressing skills that have been identified as leading to milestones in learning. Also, the VB-MAPP offers a way to look at the different categories of language to know what areas are true weaknesses. It does this by putting higher level skills like Intraverbals only in the intermediate or higher level grid. Whereas in the ABBLS assessement there is no way to guage where your child should be in a category (comparied to typical learners). For example, by looking at the ABBLS grid you can see the height your child has reached in Intraverbals and tacting but you have no idea where a child should be in these areas when they have also reached a certain level in Manding and receptive. The VB-MAPP attempts to offer this with (very) rough age equivilency guidelines. I imagine that because you are only assessing milestone goals it is likely faster to administer than the ABLLS. Finally, it offers a section that allows a lay person to analyse the potential barriers to the child's learning aquisition. Instead of listing a category of Reinforcer cooperation and effectiveness, it asks you if your child is affected by any one of 20 plus common barriers to learning. Some of the possible disadvantages of the VB-MAPP is that its scoring is not as straight forward as the ABLLS. It requires the use of some subtests and trasfer of scores from subtests in order to score the basic grid and might be more difficult for parents or teachers not doing it regularly. Because it assesses Milestones, it offers a list of what would be considered by the author the most important skills to teach your child but does not attempt to be a complete list of missing skills as the ABLLS-R does. Finally, the VB-MAPP is still in development phases. The MAPP you get today might be very different from the MAPP you get next year. To be honest with you, I am not quite sure how to address this issue at the moment within my own teaching. The tried and true ABLLS, has been there for us but the new ABLLS-R makes communicating with families more difficult until we can all get up to speed in the new revisded format. The new VB-MAPP has some very nice new bells and whistles on it but I have not used it to know if it offers any new or better insights, (although I do think the Barriers section is a nice addition especially for parents without a lot of help). For now, I am still in a wait and see mode until there is a more stable VB-MAPP product to use as a comparison. Aside from my limited perspective on this (and please jump in if I have made any mistakes in my description of either assessment), I think the best thing you can do is get some information on the two assessements from the authors themselves. Both Drs Partington and Sundberg are out there telling the world of their latest creations. I recommend professionals try to see them both speak and making a decision based on that. For parents, I recommend that you look to the people you trust and find out where they see this going. Regardless, of what you prefer to use, you and your providers are likely going to have to be in agreement and working off the same grid. Does anyone else feel comfortable offering an opinion on this at this time? ________________________ Schramm, MA, BCBA www.lulu.com/knospe-aba www.knospe-aba.com ________________________ [ ] VP-MAPP and ABLLS Would someone describe in layman's terms how and if these two tools would be used the same? How are they different? Thank you, Teri <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} ..bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o {font-size:0;} ..MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} ..replbq {margin:4;} --> ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv./collections/222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 , I think your descriptions of the VB MAPP and ABLLS/ABLLS-R are very accurate. The PA VB Project has used the ABLLS for all of our students since 2002 and have worked with Mark Sundberg to help field test the VB MAPP this year. Out of the three tools, I am most excited about the VB MAPP because of the language barrier assessment and its' potential to help us research student outcomes more effectively. _____ Lynch Barbera, RN, MSN, BCBA _www.vbapproach.com_ (http://www.vbapproach.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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