Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 In a message dated 8/8/00 3:49:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: << Has anybody been on low carb and then modified it to include some carbs? I'm very sensitive to carbs and if I eat a regular low fat diet, I'm hungry all the time and eat too much and therefore gain weight. Any clues? Thanks. Deb >> Welcome Deb!! I did the low carb thing for a week, but couldn't stay on it. Sorry, I am not of any help in that area. Have you tried eating more fiber? High fiber foods will leave you feeling full longer. Is you hunger truly hunger or are you eating for other reasons (boredom, sadness, stress, excitement...)? I tend to eat out of boredom. I know that most very low fat diets leave me feeling very unsatisfied. Maybe you need to add a little fat (the good kind found in nuts, seeds and olive oil). Just some ideas! Do you do Tae-Bo? If so which tapes? It's nice to have you with us!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 In a message dated 08/08/2000 3:50:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: > Has anybody been on low carb and then modified it to include some carbs? > I'm very sensitive to carbs and if I eat a regular low fat diet, I'm hungry > all the time and eat too much and therefore gain weight. Any clues? > Thanks. > Deb Just a warning Deb dunno exactly what you are eating or your age but being a woman, dieting can rob your bones of the nutrients needed to avoid osteoporosis I would suggest trying carbs high in fiber to satisfy your appetite, lots of water, and still include the good fats Barb whose sister dieted her whole adult life and did regular cardio but no weight resistance and has severe osteoporosis attributed to lowfat and lowcarb dieting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 In a message dated 8/8/2000 3:44:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: << I've posted to this list a couple of times but have never seen my post. This is a test .... >> Deb, I don't know the answer to your question about carbohydrates, but I have to agree with everyone that moderation is the key. A little fat and carbohydrates in your diet for the rest of your life is much better than yo-yo dieting, or a lot of fat and carbohydrates, and probably easier to live with. I agree with Janick that whenever possible try to substitute good carbohydrates (e.g., whole wheat) and good fats (ex. olive oil) for bad carbohydrates (refined sugar) and bad fats (saturated fats). Still, a little of everything won't hurt you in the long run. By the way, welcome to egroups! Glad you decided to post. Tell us more about yourself. Where do you live? What tapes do you do? Elena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 In a message dated 08/08/2000 6:32:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: > Barb, > I'm 50 and I didn't think about osteoporosis. Think I'll rethink this diet > thing. Gee - if I could get my tae-bo going I wouldn't need to " diet. " > Thanks. > Deb then it is definitely important unless you are getting Hormone Replacement Therapy cuz the lack of estrogen makes osteoporosis even more threatening. Just before I started TB, my bone density was normal so I also do free weights & take Calcium supplements to keep my bones healthy Barb who knows adding muscle at our ages is the key to being able to eat and still lose weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 It worked - I didn't hit the " are you sure you want to send this message button. " Has anybody been on low carb and then modified it to include some carbs? I'm very sensitive to carbs and if I eat a regular low fat diet, I'm hungry all the time and eat too much and therefore gain weight. Any clues? Thanks. Deb - Test I've posted to this list a couple of times but have never seen my post. This is a test .... As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. " Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 > It worked - I didn't hit the " are you sure you want to send this message > button. " > > Has anybody been on low carb and then modified it to include some carbs? > I'm very sensitive to carbs and if I eat a regular low fat diet, I'm hungry > all the time and eat too much and therefore gain weight. Any clues? > Thanks. > Deb > sorry, can't help you there... i don't diet... and I love carbs! Maybe soemone else has some ideas. Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 Welcome to the group Deb! Wow, it sounds like you have a lot of things going on . I hope your visit with your son goes well. In a message dated 8/8/00 5:48:42 PM Central Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: << Thanks for the advice Elena (and everyone). I'm Deb from Denver, I'm 50 and I've been doing Tae-Bo on and off since June. This heat is killing me though so I haven't been doing as much as I should. I'm married to Joe and we live with 2 dogs and a cat. Joe has 2 sons from a previous marriage and they had babies in January and February. Two weeks ago, the son that I gave up for adoption 30 years ago located me and we have been talking daily and e:mailing as well. He lives in Pennsylvania, is married and has 3 children! It is so wonderful! I feel very blessed. He and his beautiful wife are coming for a visit on August 17 and I can't wait! I'm going to try to get up early to do my tae-bo but this morning it was 75 degrees at 6:00! It's never like this here in Colorado. We haven't had rain in weeks. I was actually on this list for a while and went no mail but I was under a different address. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all and having you kick my butt with motivation! Deb " Stay in shape. When you're 600 years old, somebody might ask you to do something really big. " -- Noah >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 Hi Joe! Seems you passed the test. Welcome to our group! ;-) F > I've posted to this list a couple of times but have never seen my > post. This is a test .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 I hate the feeling of looking for food 1/2 hour after a big meal. I'll try adding more fiber and good fat. Yes, I've been doing tae-bo on and off for about a month but it has been extremelly hot here and we don't have air conditioning at home. I tried it the other day after work and gave up after about 5 minutes. I keep waiting for some rain but so far nothing. I've been doing the basic workout and sometimes the 8 minute one. I do love tae-bo. I take a " jump and jab " class on Saturday at our rec center which is a lot like tae-bo. I have asthma and this is about the only aerobic exercise that doesn't kill me. This is a great list - I was on it before but I couldn't keep up with the mail. I'll try harder. :-) Deb - Re: Test In a message dated 8/8/00 3:49:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: << Has anybody been on low carb and then modified it to include some carbs? I'm very sensitive to carbs and if I eat a regular low fat diet, I'm hungry all the time and eat too much and therefore gain weight. Any clues? Thanks. Deb >> Welcome Deb!! I did the low carb thing for a week, but couldn't stay on it. Sorry, I am not of any help in that area. Have you tried eating more fiber? High fiber foods will leave you feeling full longer. Is you hunger truly hunger or are you eating for other reasons (boredom, sadness, stress, excitement...)? I tend to eat out of boredom. I know that most very low fat diets leave me feeling very unsatisfied. Maybe you need to add a little fat (the good kind found in nuts, seeds and olive oil). Just some ideas! Do you do Tae-Bo? If so which tapes? It's nice to have you with us!! As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. " Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 Barb, I'm 50 and I didn't think about osteoporosis. Think I'll rethink this diet thing. Gee - if I could get my tae-bo going I wouldn't need to " diet. " Thanks. Deb - Re: Test In a message dated 08/08/2000 3:50:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: > Has anybody been on low carb and then modified it to include some carbs? > I'm very sensitive to carbs and if I eat a regular low fat diet, I'm hungry > all the time and eat too much and therefore gain weight. Any clues? > Thanks. > Deb Just a warning Deb dunno exactly what you are eating or your age but being a woman, dieting can rob your bones of the nutrients needed to avoid osteoporosis I would suggest trying carbs high in fiber to satisfy your appetite, lots of water, and still include the good fats Barb whose sister dieted her whole adult life and did regular cardio but no weight resistance and has severe osteoporosis attributed to lowfat and lowcarb dieting As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. " Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 Thanks for the advice Elena (and everyone). I'm Deb from Denver, I'm 50 and I've been doing Tae-Bo on and off since June. This heat is killing me though so I haven't been doing as much as I should. I'm married to Joe and we live with 2 dogs and a cat. Joe has 2 sons from a previous marriage and they had babies in January and February. Two weeks ago, the son that I gave up for adoption 30 years ago located me and we have been talking daily and e:mailing as well. He lives in Pennsylvania, is married and has 3 children! It is so wonderful! I feel very blessed. He and his beautiful wife are coming for a visit on August 17 and I can't wait! I'm going to try to get up early to do my tae-bo but this morning it was 75 degrees at 6:00! It's never like this here in Colorado. We haven't had rain in weeks. I was actually on this list for a while and went no mail but I was under a different address. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all and having you kick my butt with motivation! Deb " Stay in shape. When you're 600 years old, somebody might ask you to do something really big. " -- Noah .............................................................. voted #1 search engine! http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? .............................................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 <<Has anybody been on low carb and then modified it to include some carbs? I'm very sensitive to carbs and if I eat a regular low fat diet, I'm hungryall the time and eat too much and therefore gain weight. Any clues? Thanks.Deb>> Deb, I've been on a low carb diet, but it is not a permanent weight loss solution. I lost 45 pounds and gained 15 back on such a program. I do believe though that there are good and bad carbs, and that you should avoid the bad ones. Anything that is refined (white bread, white rice, pastries) is bad. Anything that comes directly from nature (ie fruits and veggies) is good. You can also add in the good category whole wheat pasta, brown rice, whole wheat bread... etc... You can't eliminate carbs from your diet because you need them for energy. IMO low carb diets are for people who don't engage in demanding physical activities (ie tae bo). Janick who is a recovering low carb junkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2000 Report Share Posted August 8, 2000 <<I'm Deb from Denver, I'm 50 andI've been doing Tae-Bo on and off since June>> Welcome Deb!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 In a message dated 08/09/2000 6:28:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, talia@... writes: > You seem to be in the know on a lot of these things. What would you suggest > as the best kind of calcium supplement? Since one hears all kinds of things > on the subject... I don't have any problems at this point. I eat a lot of > yogurt and milk products, but I would like to do preventative. I heard that > Dolomite isn't necessarily the best because of, I think it was that there > was lead in it. What do you suggest? I try to get a supplement that has Vitamin D also to help absorption and usually take it with skim milk or a smoothie. I believe it is better not to take it on an empty stomach with just water for absorption. Though I should take 600mg twice a day, I have only been taking one cuz I drink alot of skim milk and have nonfat yogurt in smoothies. TUMs is a good source of Calcium, but it lacks the Vitamin D. There is also an opinion that which Calcium compound is used can be a factor but I just use whichever is on sale. LOL not very scientific but figured I was ahead of the game having a normal bone density to start and doing weight bearing exercise regularly even though not on hormone replacement therapy cuz it caused ridiculously heavy artificial periods Barb who will research this more and share if I find better advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 Barb, You seem to be in the know on a lot of these things. What would you suggest as the best kind of calcium supplement? Since one hears all kinds of things on the subject... I don't have any problems at this point. I eat a lot of yogurt and milk products, but I would like to do preventative. I heard that Dolomite isn't necessarily the best because of, I think it was that there was lead in it. What do you suggest? ------- Talia Adar Jerusalem Post Tel: (02) 531-5639 Fax: (02) 538-8408 > From: Horsemom2@... > Reply-To: tae-bo_onegroups > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 18:39:46 EDT > To: tae-bo_onegroups > Subject: Re: Test > > In a message dated 08/08/2000 6:32:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > joecool1007@... writes: > >> Barb, >> I'm 50 and I didn't think about osteoporosis. Think I'll rethink this diet >> thing. Gee - if I could get my tae-bo going I wouldn't need to " diet. " >> Thanks. >> Deb > > then it is definitely important unless you are getting Hormone Replacement > Therapy cuz the lack of estrogen makes osteoporosis even more threatening. > Just before I started TB, my bone density was normal so I also do free > weights & take Calcium supplements to keep my bones healthy > > Barb > who knows adding muscle at our ages is the key to being able to eat and still > lose weight > > > > As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. " > > Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 Thanks! I'ts very exciting and I'll let you guys know how it works. BTW - this is a great list! Deb - Re: Test Welcome to the group Deb! Wow, it sounds like you have a lot of things going on . I hope your visit with your son goes well. In a message dated 8/8/00 5:48:42 PM Central Daylight Time, joecool1007@... writes: << Thanks for the advice Elena (and everyone). I'm Deb from Denver, I'm 50 and I've been doing Tae-Bo on and off since June. This heat is killing me though so I haven't been doing as much as I should. I'm married to Joe and we live with 2 dogs and a cat. Joe has 2 sons from a previous marriage and they had babies in January and February. Two weeks ago, the son that I gave up for adoption 30 years ago located me and we have been talking daily and e:mailing as well. He lives in Pennsylvania, is married and has 3 children! It is so wonderful! I feel very blessed. He and his beautiful wife are coming for a visit on August 17 and I can't wait! I'm going to try to get up early to do my tae-bo but this morning it was 75 degrees at 6:00! It's never like this here in Colorado. We haven't had rain in weeks. I was actually on this list for a while and went no mail but I was under a different address. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all and having you kick my butt with motivation! Deb " Stay in shape. When you're 600 years old, somebody might ask you to do something really big. " -- Noah >> As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. " Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 I heard somewhere that while Tums has a lot of calcium in it, it creates an anti-acid environment which inhibits the absorption of the calcium. Low- or non-fat dairy products are the very best sources of calcium. ;-) F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2000 Report Share Posted August 9, 2000 At 10:18 AM 08/09/2000 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 08/09/2000 6:28:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >talia@... writes: > >> You seem to be in the know on a lot of these things. What would you suggest >> as the best kind of calcium supplement? I am not Barb, but I highly recommend Os-Cal...it is the right kind of calcium and comes with the Vitamin D. Joya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2000 Report Share Posted August 10, 2000 Thanks. I guess I will just buy the next Calcium supplement that is on sale and make sure I take it with Vitamin D !!! ------- Talia Adar Jerusalem Post Tel: (02) 531-5639 Fax: (02) 538-8408 > From: Horsemom2@... > Reply-To: tae-bo_onegroups > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:18:32 EDT > To: tae-bo_onegroups > Subject: Re: Test > > In a message dated 08/09/2000 6:28:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > talia@... writes: > >> You seem to be in the know on a lot of these things. What would you suggest >> as the best kind of calcium supplement? Since one hears all kinds of things >> on the subject... I don't have any problems at this point. I eat a lot of >> yogurt and milk products, but I would like to do preventative. I heard that >> Dolomite isn't necessarily the best because of, I think it was that there >> was lead in it. What do you suggest? > > I try to get a supplement that has Vitamin D also to help absorption and > usually take it with skim milk or a smoothie. I believe it is better not to > take it on an empty stomach with just water for absorption. Though I should > take 600mg twice a day, I have only been taking one cuz I drink alot of skim > milk and have nonfat yogurt in smoothies. TUMs is a good source of Calcium, > but it lacks the Vitamin D. There is also an opinion that which Calcium > compound is used can be a factor but I just use whichever is on sale. > LOL not very scientific but figured I was ahead of the game having a normal > bone density to start and doing weight bearing exercise regularly even though > not on hormone replacement therapy cuz it caused ridiculously heavy > artificial periods > > Barb > who will research this more and share if I find better advice > > > > As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. " > > Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2000 Report Share Posted August 10, 2000 Joya, Is Os-Cal the brand name? Is it synthetic or is it considered " natural " vitamins? I'd like to check it out when I am in the States. Thanks for your info. ------- Talia Adar Jerusalem Post Tel: (02) 531-5639 Fax: (02) 538-8408 > > Reply-To: tae-bo_onegroups > Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 18:02:41 -0500 > To: tae-bo_onegroups > Subject: Re: Test > > At 10:18 AM 08/09/2000 EDT, you wrote: >> In a message dated 08/09/2000 6:28:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >> talia@... writes: >> >>> You seem to be in the know on a lot of these things. What would you suggest >>> as the best kind of calcium supplement? > > I am not Barb, but I highly recommend Os-Cal...it is the right kind of > calcium and comes with the Vitamin D. > > Joya > > > > As Deb has said: " Fitness is a journey and it begins with the first step. " > > Visit our new vault site http://taeboon.isportsdot.com/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Another complex issue. I will start by saying that from my perspective the proposed legislation (to require testing for specific pathogens) is the wrong solution to a real problem. Essential all of the routine testing required by state AG departments for dairy quality assurance are designed to be flags of potential problems in the quality of the milk. Flags are used because the cost and techniques of looking for specific “bad” characteristics is total unrealistic. There are far to many “bad” things out there, not all of us agree on what is “bad” and new “bad” things are becoming recognized all the time. If you decide that you are aiming to determine when any one of them is present you are on one of those slippery slopes. Rather most regulatory agencies pick a couple of easy, inexpensive tests (coliforms, colony counts, somatic cell counts, etc) that should indicate that something might be wrong, but not WHAT is specifically wrong. Furthermore, these tests are almost always threshold tests (they are not good/bad, or positive/negative) they have a continuum of values. And the tipping point (threshold) is arbitrarily set by looking at the number of times a given value will predict that something serious is wrong, versus values that are background noise that is not worth pursuing. The problem comes not in this principle of testing, but in what you do when a flag is raised. If you follow the principle that these are flags to warn the farmer of possible problems with quality, then the appropriate response is to find out what is causing that flag, and determining if it needs corrective actions and THEN take corrective action. Unfortunately, the agency often leaps ahead and says you have an unsafe product so quit consuming it, and throw it away. And that action is rarely appropriate! It is totally inappropriate because the testing is not designed for that action. I am not saying that this is universal, but past actions of AG departments have frequently started from the position that they believe raw milk is a public health risk, and are looking for any excuse to stop it’s availability. The more appropriate legislation would require AG departments to respond to these flags by working with the farmer to quickly determine (1) if there is a real problem, (2) what the source of that problem is, and (3)what corrective actions are appropriate. And forbid the agency from interfering with the farmer unless and until there is specific evidence of a serious risk to the consumer. A coliform count, colony count, or somatic cell count that is above an arbitrary threshold is NOT by itself specific evidence of serious risk. Ted Test *Bill clarifies raw milk testing*Saturday, March 05, 2005 - Bangor Daily News------------------------------------------------------------------------TURNER - A controversy about how the Maine Department of Agriculture reads and interprets bacteria tests on raw milk has prompted a bill that would require the state to more accurately test food products.LD 654 would require the state to review its procedure for testing food products for bacteria and revise them to distinguish between types of bacteria that are harmful and those that are not.The bill's sponsor, Sen. Nutting, D-Leeds, said Thursday that the issue came to light when some of Maine's raw milk sellers had their dairies shut down by state dairy inspectors when test results indicated the presence of nonharmful bacteria."The [Agriculture] Department is not differentiating between benign E. coli bacteria and bad E. coli," Nutting said. He said this failure to determine which bacteria are present has cost some Maine farmers thousands of dollars as milk which is determined unsafe must be disposed of and cannot be sold.A public hearing on the bill will be held at 9:30 a.m. Monday, March 7, before the Legislature's Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Conservation.Gloria Varney of Nezinscot Farm in is one of those affected farmers. She said Friday that as an organic dairy farmer, she does not give her 100 cows antibiotics. In addition, her cows, on average, are between 8 and 10 years old, which is considered old for producing cows."Both of those things affect the count and will push the coliform count up," Varney said. "There is a difference between fecal coliform and nonfecal coliform, and the department doesn't differentiate."For more than a year, Varney's coliform count has consistently been above average and therefore she cannot display or advertise her raw milk in the store. She still is allowed, however, to sell it to customers who specifically request it."Because it is out back and people have to ask for it, we are selling an average of 8 to 10 gallons a day," Varney said, adding that each quart is sold for $1.50. "That is compared to 20 to 30 gallons a day when we were allowed to bottle it and put it out front."Maine is one of only 11 states that allow retail sales of raw milk, and it has a vigorous testing procedure in place. In the state, there are a dozen licensed processors, ranging from Oakhurst to small local farms selling raw milk.State veterinarian Don Hoenig said Thursday that there are hundreds of strains of E. coli................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Ted Beals wrote: > Another complex issue. I will start by saying that from my perspective > the proposed legislation (to require testing for specific pathogens) > is the wrong solution to a real problem. > > Essential all of the routine testing required by state AG departments > for dairy quality assurance are designed to be flags of potential > problems in the quality of the milk. Flags are used because the cost > and techniques of looking for specific “bad” characteristics is total > unrealistic. There are far to many “bad” things out there, not all of > us agree on what is “bad” and new “bad” things are becoming recognized > all the time. If you decide that you are aiming to determine when any > one of them is present you are on one of those slippery slopes. Rather > most regulatory agencies pick a couple of easy, inexpensive tests > (coliforms, colony counts, somatic cell counts, etc) that should > indicate that something might be wrong, but not WHAT is specifically > wrong. Furthermore, these tests are almost always threshold tests > (they are not good/bad, or positive/negative) they have a continuum of > values. And the tipping point (threshold) is arbitrarily set by > looking at the number of times a given value will predict that > something serious is wrong, versus values that are background noise > that is not worth pursuing. > > The problem comes not in this principle of testing, but in what you do > when a flag is raised. If you follow the principle that these are > flags to warn the farmer of possible problems with quality, then the > appropriate response is to find out what is causing that flag, and > determining if it needs corrective actions and THEN take corrective > action. Unfortunately, the agency often leaps ahead and says you have > an unsafe product so quit consuming it, and throw it away. And that > action is rarely appropriate! It is totally inappropriate because the > testing is not designed for that action. I am not saying that this is > universal, but past actions of AG departments have frequently started > from the position that they believe raw milk is a public health risk, > and are looking for any excuse to stop it’s availability. > > The more appropriate legislation would require AG departments to > respond to these flags by working with the farmer to quickly determine > (1) if there is a real problem, (2) what the source of that problem > is, and (3)what corrective actions are appropriate. And forbid the > agency from interfering with the farmer unless and until there is > specific evidence of a serious risk to the consumer. A coliform count, > colony count, or somatic cell count that is above an arbitrary > threshold is NOT by itself specific evidence of serious risk. > > Ted > > * Test > > *Bill clarifies raw milk testing* > Saturday, March 05, 2005 - Bangor Daily News > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > TURNER - A controversy about how the Maine Department of Agriculture > reads and interprets bacteria tests on raw milk has prompted a > bill that > would require the state to more accurately test food products. > > LD 654 would require the state to review its procedure for testing > food > products for bacteria and revise them to distinguish between types of > bacteria that are harmful and those that are not. > > The bill's sponsor, Sen. Nutting, D-Leeds, said Thursday that > the > issue came to light when some of Maine's raw milk sellers had their > dairies shut down by state dairy inspectors when test results > indicated > the presence of nonharmful bacteria. > > " The [Agriculture] Department is not differentiating between > benign E. > coli bacteria and bad E. coli, " Nutting said. He said this failure to > determine which bacteria are present has cost some Maine farmers > thousands of dollars as milk which is determined unsafe must be > disposed > of and cannot be sold. > > A public hearing on the bill will be held at 9:30 a.m. Monday, > March 7, > before the Legislature's Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and > Conservation. > > Gloria Varney of Nezinscot Farm in is one of those affected > farmers. She said Friday that as an organic dairy farmer, she does > not > give her 100 cows antibiotics. In addition, her cows, on average, are > between 8 and 10 years old, which is considered old for producing > cows. > > " Both of those things affect the count and will push the coliform > count > up, " Varney said. " There is a difference between fecal coliform and > nonfecal coliform, and the department doesn't differentiate. " > > For more than a year, Varney's coliform count has consistently been > above average and therefore she cannot display or advertise her > raw milk > in the store. She still is allowed, however, to sell it to > customers who > specifically request it. > > " Because it is out back and people have to ask for it, we are > selling an > average of 8 to 10 gallons a day, " Varney said, adding that each > quart > is sold for $1.50. " That is compared to 20 to 30 gallons a day > when we > were allowed to bottle it and put it out front. " > > Maine is one of only 11 states that allow retail sales of raw > milk, and > it has a vigorous testing procedure in place. In the state, there > are a > dozen licensed processors, ranging from Oakhurst to small local farms > selling raw milk. > > State veterinarian Don Hoenig said Thursday that there are > hundreds of > strains of E. coli. > > .................. > > > Ted, I generally agree with you. However, I am certain that if there was a market for a more complete test, one could be developed at a reasonable cost. If a test which differentiated bacteria was mandated, it would be there. nes disease is a serious problem in this country with serious health implications. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/62/2/631 " Results^ indicate that when large numbers of M. paratuberculosis cells are present^ in milk, the organism may not be completely inactivated by heat treatments^ simulating holder and HTST pasteurization under laboratory conditions. " M. paratuberculosis hides in the SPC. A number of officials feel there are bacteria in milk today which went there years ago. Who is to say. But, it is one of the issues raised surrounding sale of raw milk. A better test would be helpful for all involved in dairy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Hello, I sent an email earlier about advise, I'm not sure if you received it, could you please somebody answer? Thanks Sil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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