Guest guest Posted October 30, 2001 Report Share Posted October 30, 2001 Hi Minja! Thank you so much for your kind words. Yes, I can relate to much of your story. Almost as if I wrote it. >> Please tell me, how did you accept the seperation from your nada (if I understood correctly)? The way I saw it then, turning my back on mother was never an option. Mother was my mother, forever. The Good Book said to " honor thy father and thy mother " and to " turn the other cheek " . I just had to be more patient, more understating, more tolerant, more compassionate, more empathetic, more everything. The problem had to be me and my inability to cope. >> Do you have peace with the fact that you may not see her again? Yes. I've let it all go now. She very likely will take her hardened heart to the grave with her. I hope not, but if she does, I'm at peace knowing that I did all I could for her. >> And are things ok with your family now? Yes. Part of the healing was letting go of what others chose to think of me, and to forgive them (in my heart, not to them personally). In the end, my biggest fears were unfounded. Mother's actions spoke louder than any words I could have said. But a few people did wonder about me for awhile, as I learned later. Best wishes, Carol Minja Simpson wrote: > Hi Carol > > I'm glad you've experienced transformation, healing and > growth! It sounds like you went pretty much through the same anguish > as me at the same time. Please tell me, how did you accept the > seperation from your nada (if I understood correctly)? Do you have > peace with the fact that you may not see her again? And are things > ok with your family now? > Take care > Minja > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Carol M [camckay@...] > > > > ilene@... wrote to Minja: > > > > > Your nada is very sick and unable to even admit that > > > she is sick. Accept that, forgive her (I'm not saying you have > > > to speak to her!) > > > > Hi Ilene, Minja and everyone! > > > > Briefly my alcoholic BPD mother is 79 and still alive and kicking. > > However, she and I have not set eyes on one another for 2 1/2 > > years, nor have we been in direct contact for as many. The more > > I tried, the less she appreciated, the more she complained, and > > the more she demanded. In the end I was disowned, disinherited, > > slandered to family and friends, and falsely accused of forgery > > and fraud on a grand scale. That month in 1999, and the year > > that followed, was a living hell on earth. But the next year was > > one of transformation, healing and growth. > > > > I agree so much with your advice to forgive. Looking back, that > > became my path to healing. I hurt so much, and the pain was so > > deep, I literally hated my mother. I even wished she were dead, > > that's how bad it was. I don't like to admit I had such thoughts, > > but I did. I knew I had to get rid of the anger somehow, because > > it was a cancer eating me alive, but I didn't know how to get rid > > of it. Nothing worked, not even screaming and pounding my bed > > (the proverbial punching bag). Actually, I felt worse afterwards, > > not better. So, I went to a therapist. No real help there, > > except a sympathetic non-judgmental ear, which was nice but it > > was useless for purging the anger. > > > > Best wishes to everyone, > > Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2001 Report Share Posted October 30, 2001 Hi Minja! Thank you so much for your kind words. Yes, I can relate to much of your story. Almost as if I wrote it. >> Please tell me, how did you accept the seperation from your nada (if I understood correctly)? The way I saw it then, turning my back on mother was never an option. Mother was my mother, forever. The Good Book said to " honor thy father and thy mother " and to " turn the other cheek " . I just had to be more patient, more understating, more tolerant, more compassionate, more empathetic, more everything. The problem had to be me and my inability to cope. >> Do you have peace with the fact that you may not see her again? Yes. I've let it all go now. She very likely will take her hardened heart to the grave with her. I hope not, but if she does, I'm at peace knowing that I did all I could for her. >> And are things ok with your family now? Yes. Part of the healing was letting go of what others chose to think of me, and to forgive them (in my heart, not to them personally). In the end, my biggest fears were unfounded. Mother's actions spoke louder than any words I could have said. But a few people did wonder about me for awhile, as I learned later. Best wishes, Carol Minja Simpson wrote: > Hi Carol > > I'm glad you've experienced transformation, healing and > growth! It sounds like you went pretty much through the same anguish > as me at the same time. Please tell me, how did you accept the > seperation from your nada (if I understood correctly)? Do you have > peace with the fact that you may not see her again? And are things > ok with your family now? > Take care > Minja > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Carol M [camckay@...] > > > > ilene@... wrote to Minja: > > > > > Your nada is very sick and unable to even admit that > > > she is sick. Accept that, forgive her (I'm not saying you have > > > to speak to her!) > > > > Hi Ilene, Minja and everyone! > > > > Briefly my alcoholic BPD mother is 79 and still alive and kicking. > > However, she and I have not set eyes on one another for 2 1/2 > > years, nor have we been in direct contact for as many. The more > > I tried, the less she appreciated, the more she complained, and > > the more she demanded. In the end I was disowned, disinherited, > > slandered to family and friends, and falsely accused of forgery > > and fraud on a grand scale. That month in 1999, and the year > > that followed, was a living hell on earth. But the next year was > > one of transformation, healing and growth. > > > > I agree so much with your advice to forgive. Looking back, that > > became my path to healing. I hurt so much, and the pain was so > > deep, I literally hated my mother. I even wished she were dead, > > that's how bad it was. I don't like to admit I had such thoughts, > > but I did. I knew I had to get rid of the anger somehow, because > > it was a cancer eating me alive, but I didn't know how to get rid > > of it. Nothing worked, not even screaming and pounding my bed > > (the proverbial punching bag). Actually, I felt worse afterwards, > > not better. So, I went to a therapist. No real help there, > > except a sympathetic non-judgmental ear, which was nice but it > > was useless for purging the anger. > > > > Best wishes to everyone, > > Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 Carol, I guess I was fortunate that I din't actually know my mother was terminally ill until aboout 3 days before she died. One of my brothers went to see her because she told him whoever came would get her money. My brother is all about the green so he went. He told me she was dying and I didnt believe him. I made my decision not to go and I stuck to it, but then again I only had a few days to ponder and no contact with my mother to be on th receiving end of guilt. I cannot say how it would have played out if my mother was getting up there in the years. Today there's hope she'll > have a change > of heart, however remote. When she's gone, all hope > will be > gone forever. Yes I definitely think this is the hardest part, the fact that things are final, the book is closed. You cannot change her but you can change the way you look at things even after her death. I think I see the bigger picture now. It's easier with this new perspective to deal with it all. I admit I had a catharsis of sorts after she dies when I realized: IT'S FINALLY OVER!!! She cannot hurt me, maipulate me or make me feel guilty anymore. I wonder if I should write and tell her I love her > and that I've > forgiven her. I still do love her very deeply, Only you can make that choice. I just know that with my mother, that would have been exactly the validation she would be looking for. She would draw from this that indeed I really was the terrible daughter and she the victim. > I truly have > forgiven her, because she doesn't know what she does > (because > of BPD). I know I haven't forgiven my mother yet. This is a process for me. I am trying to let go of the anger as time goes on and I think it all out. The hurt is still very much there though. As far as she knows not what she does....I can't buy into that. My mother was abused by her father and mother,its a long saga, but it has to stop somewhere. At some point people have to take responsibility for their actions. I think my mother was unaware of how bizarre she really was at times, but she had some control. If I pardon her behavior I am not helping her or myself. If telling her those words would allow her > to leave > this world with a little peace, I'd do it. I considered this as well. However I decided against it. My heart and the fact that I am a decent person told me to be compassionate and make her comfortable, but my mind won out. I made the right decision for me and my mothers letter reinforced my belief that she was unconcerned for my feelings. It is always about them. However, > I do not want > to get involved again, not if it's going to rekindle > all of her > accusatory vendettas, such as fraud and forgery. I may be too cynical..but my belief is that for the most part, people don't change. They can change certain behaviors but when things are in such disarray, it's not likely.> But I still want to fix the > unfixable. Sigh! I think this is the " normal " thing to feel. I guess that is what distinguishes us from them. ===== K. Lutman Mannheim, Germany Mom to Brennan 10/3/99 http://www.growthspurts.com/view.asp?s=6344 __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 Carol, I guess I was fortunate that I din't actually know my mother was terminally ill until aboout 3 days before she died. One of my brothers went to see her because she told him whoever came would get her money. My brother is all about the green so he went. He told me she was dying and I didnt believe him. I made my decision not to go and I stuck to it, but then again I only had a few days to ponder and no contact with my mother to be on th receiving end of guilt. I cannot say how it would have played out if my mother was getting up there in the years. Today there's hope she'll > have a change > of heart, however remote. When she's gone, all hope > will be > gone forever. Yes I definitely think this is the hardest part, the fact that things are final, the book is closed. You cannot change her but you can change the way you look at things even after her death. I think I see the bigger picture now. It's easier with this new perspective to deal with it all. I admit I had a catharsis of sorts after she dies when I realized: IT'S FINALLY OVER!!! She cannot hurt me, maipulate me or make me feel guilty anymore. I wonder if I should write and tell her I love her > and that I've > forgiven her. I still do love her very deeply, Only you can make that choice. I just know that with my mother, that would have been exactly the validation she would be looking for. She would draw from this that indeed I really was the terrible daughter and she the victim. > I truly have > forgiven her, because she doesn't know what she does > (because > of BPD). I know I haven't forgiven my mother yet. This is a process for me. I am trying to let go of the anger as time goes on and I think it all out. The hurt is still very much there though. As far as she knows not what she does....I can't buy into that. My mother was abused by her father and mother,its a long saga, but it has to stop somewhere. At some point people have to take responsibility for their actions. I think my mother was unaware of how bizarre she really was at times, but she had some control. If I pardon her behavior I am not helping her or myself. If telling her those words would allow her > to leave > this world with a little peace, I'd do it. I considered this as well. However I decided against it. My heart and the fact that I am a decent person told me to be compassionate and make her comfortable, but my mind won out. I made the right decision for me and my mothers letter reinforced my belief that she was unconcerned for my feelings. It is always about them. However, > I do not want > to get involved again, not if it's going to rekindle > all of her > accusatory vendettas, such as fraud and forgery. I may be too cynical..but my belief is that for the most part, people don't change. They can change certain behaviors but when things are in such disarray, it's not likely.> But I still want to fix the > unfixable. Sigh! I think this is the " normal " thing to feel. I guess that is what distinguishes us from them. ===== K. Lutman Mannheim, Germany Mom to Brennan 10/3/99 http://www.growthspurts.com/view.asp?s=6344 __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 Carol, I guess I was fortunate that I din't actually know my mother was terminally ill until aboout 3 days before she died. One of my brothers went to see her because she told him whoever came would get her money. My brother is all about the green so he went. He told me she was dying and I didnt believe him. I made my decision not to go and I stuck to it, but then again I only had a few days to ponder and no contact with my mother to be on th receiving end of guilt. I cannot say how it would have played out if my mother was getting up there in the years. Today there's hope she'll > have a change > of heart, however remote. When she's gone, all hope > will be > gone forever. Yes I definitely think this is the hardest part, the fact that things are final, the book is closed. You cannot change her but you can change the way you look at things even after her death. I think I see the bigger picture now. It's easier with this new perspective to deal with it all. I admit I had a catharsis of sorts after she dies when I realized: IT'S FINALLY OVER!!! She cannot hurt me, maipulate me or make me feel guilty anymore. I wonder if I should write and tell her I love her > and that I've > forgiven her. I still do love her very deeply, Only you can make that choice. I just know that with my mother, that would have been exactly the validation she would be looking for. She would draw from this that indeed I really was the terrible daughter and she the victim. > I truly have > forgiven her, because she doesn't know what she does > (because > of BPD). I know I haven't forgiven my mother yet. This is a process for me. I am trying to let go of the anger as time goes on and I think it all out. The hurt is still very much there though. As far as she knows not what she does....I can't buy into that. My mother was abused by her father and mother,its a long saga, but it has to stop somewhere. At some point people have to take responsibility for their actions. I think my mother was unaware of how bizarre she really was at times, but she had some control. If I pardon her behavior I am not helping her or myself. If telling her those words would allow her > to leave > this world with a little peace, I'd do it. I considered this as well. However I decided against it. My heart and the fact that I am a decent person told me to be compassionate and make her comfortable, but my mind won out. I made the right decision for me and my mothers letter reinforced my belief that she was unconcerned for my feelings. It is always about them. However, > I do not want > to get involved again, not if it's going to rekindle > all of her > accusatory vendettas, such as fraud and forgery. I may be too cynical..but my belief is that for the most part, people don't change. They can change certain behaviors but when things are in such disarray, it's not likely.> But I still want to fix the > unfixable. Sigh! I think this is the " normal " thing to feel. I guess that is what distinguishes us from them. ===== K. Lutman Mannheim, Germany Mom to Brennan 10/3/99 http://www.growthspurts.com/view.asp?s=6344 __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 >I wonder if I should write and tell her I love her >> and that I've >> forgiven her. I still do love her very deeply, > Carol, I'd suggest if you do write her that you don't say anything she may interpret as ' her fault deliberately ' A good phrase I tell my mother is that she is exquisitely sensitive- that she needs help controlling her emotions and understanding people's intentions so that she doesn't wound herself inside. I tell her she needs behavioral modification to stay in tune with what's really being said or conveyed. Forgiveness does NOT require participation by the person who abused you. It's a gift you give yourself. My BP mother doesn't understand being responsible. (NO self) Her life has been mirroring never with a sense of who she is and what she really wants. I feel sorry for her- a life with MONEY as its core, games/manipulations, looks/impressions- a life on stage. A VOID existence. I hope this gives you a different perspective. BP is a " closet " mental illness. Perhaps someday we'll find a cure. Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 >I wonder if I should write and tell her I love her >> and that I've >> forgiven her. I still do love her very deeply, > Carol, I'd suggest if you do write her that you don't say anything she may interpret as ' her fault deliberately ' A good phrase I tell my mother is that she is exquisitely sensitive- that she needs help controlling her emotions and understanding people's intentions so that she doesn't wound herself inside. I tell her she needs behavioral modification to stay in tune with what's really being said or conveyed. Forgiveness does NOT require participation by the person who abused you. It's a gift you give yourself. My BP mother doesn't understand being responsible. (NO self) Her life has been mirroring never with a sense of who she is and what she really wants. I feel sorry for her- a life with MONEY as its core, games/manipulations, looks/impressions- a life on stage. A VOID existence. I hope this gives you a different perspective. BP is a " closet " mental illness. Perhaps someday we'll find a cure. Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 >I wonder if I should write and tell her I love her >> and that I've >> forgiven her. I still do love her very deeply, > Carol, I'd suggest if you do write her that you don't say anything she may interpret as ' her fault deliberately ' A good phrase I tell my mother is that she is exquisitely sensitive- that she needs help controlling her emotions and understanding people's intentions so that she doesn't wound herself inside. I tell her she needs behavioral modification to stay in tune with what's really being said or conveyed. Forgiveness does NOT require participation by the person who abused you. It's a gift you give yourself. My BP mother doesn't understand being responsible. (NO self) Her life has been mirroring never with a sense of who she is and what she really wants. I feel sorry for her- a life with MONEY as its core, games/manipulations, looks/impressions- a life on stage. A VOID existence. I hope this gives you a different perspective. BP is a " closet " mental illness. Perhaps someday we'll find a cure. Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 Wow! It IS a gift to ourselves, and thank you for sharing that insight. That's exactly how it's been. I've never forgiven mother to her face. It's all happened alone in the privacy of my prayers. I always thought (and was taught) that we forgive others to their face. Maybe it's a carryover from my Catholic training and the confessional, where we must bare our souls to the priest. Looking back, I can see how I was caught up with the " SHE owes ME an apology " concept. It's true, she did owe me an apology. And a very big one too! But, as long as I held onto that concept, I expected HER to change by admitting she had done wrong. It was something she would never do, and I knew it too. The more I refused to budge, the more tenaciously I held onto to all the my anger, hatred, bitterness, and resentments, however unwittingly. I had it all backwards. The mystery of my healing still eludes me, and by writing about it, maybe I'll come to understand it better. Maybe it's not necessary. I'm just grateful I finally had eyes to see with, and ears to hear with . We are so alone as we walk down the path to recovery. The answers are deep down inside us, and no one can give them to us, except ourselves and faith in a higher power. We at this list, therapists, friends, and family are merely way stations along the way, cheering us along. Thanks for listening. It helps to put all this stuff into words. Best wishes, Carol " Ellen C. Greene " wrote: > Forgiveness does NOT > require participation by the person who abused you. It's a gift you give > yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2001 Report Share Posted November 28, 2001 Wow! It IS a gift to ourselves, and thank you for sharing that insight. That's exactly how it's been. I've never forgiven mother to her face. It's all happened alone in the privacy of my prayers. I always thought (and was taught) that we forgive others to their face. Maybe it's a carryover from my Catholic training and the confessional, where we must bare our souls to the priest. Looking back, I can see how I was caught up with the " SHE owes ME an apology " concept. It's true, she did owe me an apology. And a very big one too! But, as long as I held onto that concept, I expected HER to change by admitting she had done wrong. It was something she would never do, and I knew it too. The more I refused to budge, the more tenaciously I held onto to all the my anger, hatred, bitterness, and resentments, however unwittingly. I had it all backwards. The mystery of my healing still eludes me, and by writing about it, maybe I'll come to understand it better. Maybe it's not necessary. I'm just grateful I finally had eyes to see with, and ears to hear with . We are so alone as we walk down the path to recovery. The answers are deep down inside us, and no one can give them to us, except ourselves and faith in a higher power. We at this list, therapists, friends, and family are merely way stations along the way, cheering us along. Thanks for listening. It helps to put all this stuff into words. Best wishes, Carol " Ellen C. Greene " wrote: > Forgiveness does NOT > require participation by the person who abused you. It's a gift you give > yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 call your doc first before stopping your meds..what are you taking? Re: Lee/Carol it was in the Paper and also on the news though I missed it on the news just caught the tail end. Now I do not know what to do. mine was down to 89 while ago had not ate. but I think I am ready to quit taking the pills and see what happens Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 taking 15 meg actos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 your not nosey silly..the rate is very low..I had several ways I could have got it...I often used his razors too..So relax my dear.. Re: welcome Betty Ok this has me puzzled both of you lost your husbands to Hep C and you have it also. I have not been worried about passing it on to as I never passed it on to . I was told it was hard to pass it to your spouse?? I am not trying to be nosey, just a little worried now. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Ok thanks LOL. I never will forget when I first found out how dangerous this crap was. I cried as I was worried about having sex with , and that when I was told it was OK. But I still did not know a lot, as the doctors had not told me anything, other then I had it. then one day I cut myself and put my finger in his mouth I like to have fainted. still did not know all the facts and I thought I had just given it to him by his doing that. and he said He did not care as he was such a druggie in his younger days that he most likely had it. well as loved as that made me feel LOL (he is a complete idiot) I made him go about three times in one year to get tested, he did not and never did get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 We have info on patient assistance programs if your granddaughter is interested in tx. Re: welcome Betty I am always on young people to get tested. My granddaughter is 18 and has hep C. she got it from drugs with her boyfriend. her alt count was so high. I have tried to get her to go on treatment as she has a new baby. but she has no money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I am trying to talk her in to it, but she is living with the sperm donor he will not work she is--and Does not realize what she is in for. he has it to he gave it to her!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 HE IS A BUM and a doper though he told her he quit. then he stole some of my pain pills, she would not believe me when I told her but they were the only ones over here. she is overweight and has no self esteem, I know that one day she will get tired of it, but when is the problem. it does no good to talk about him as that just makes her take up for him so I quit that. Just don't want him in my house again, but they now live somewhere in TENN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Her daughter needs her and it sounds like he isn't very useful to the family other then a free babysitter.She has to be treated while she is young and it increases her chance of successful outcome. Gail -----Original Message-----From: HepatitisCSupportGroupForDummies [mailto:HepatitisCSupportGroupForDummies ]On Behalf Of CarolSent: February 13, 2008 6:21 PMTo: HepatitisCSupportGroupForDummies Subject: Re: Carol I am trying to talk her in to it, but she is living with the sperm donor he will not work she is--and Does not realize what she is in for. he has it to he gave it to her!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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