introduction and question: your honest opinions wanted

[Guest guest]

Greetings:

1) I am knew to this group, saw a documentary on TV which had

interviews with paretnts of autistic children and adults with

autism/Aspergers, two of the points brought forward were: is there

prejudice against those people?, does society as a whole have a right

to try and " fix " those people? Since then I have read stuff about

Aspergers, and wonder if I have this syndrom.

2) my question is: do you, my fellow group members, think there is any

advantage to my being analyzed professionally to determine if I do

have Aspergers?

3) my traits as I see them

a) physical

- as a young child I " spun, " still remember how relaxing it was (my

mom would freak out, say it was a sign of mental problems)

-don't appreciate being touched when I am already over whelmed, or not

expecting it

-find it difficult to do physical things, have always been a klutz

-one of my jobs involves physically repetitive work, took me months to

become proficient, now I enjoy it, find it relaxing

-life bombards me with sensory input and I get overwhelmed

inner life:

-try to figure things logically

- am a sythesis thinker, (see the unusual, can hold 2 seemingly

contradictory concepts together in my mind, etc)

-am a loner and introvert, to an extreme

- was immune to peer pressure as a teen

-Hate multi-tasking, but am able to

-Have a strong sense of justice/injustice, believe in minority rights

-my whole life, I have felt people were trying to fix me or force me

to conform

-am able to focus and tune out many distractions, when I chose to

c) communication

- find it easier to communicate in writing than verbally

-find it difficult to understand subtleties in communication: body

language, sarcasm, humour, don't do face time well

-others seem to mis-read my body language

-see verbal communication literally, speak my mind, but find others

often still don't get what I am trying to say

- in reading books etc, I can understand sarcasm, metaphors, humour,

its just verbal that cause me confusion

-read botany and geology books as a young person, now read both

fiction and non fiction

-Find much human behaviour incomprehensible; have gained most

understanding from books and a few " people whispers, " some therapists

have helped me learn to survive

-Find small talk very tiring, tend to avoid social settings

-love participating in meetings, a more structured discussion, am Ok

with reading or speaking to a large group (one of my friends said this

may cause people to mis-read my personality, then they are puzzled

that I don't " do " small talk well)

-Enjoy routine, tradition, ritual; both community and personal:

(prefer attending a church with historic ritual, yearly liturgical cycle)

-am under-employed according to friends and family (my part time work

gives me opportunity to set own hours most days, I can contribute to

the common good without constant interaction)

I am genuinely interested in your honest opinions and will not be

offended.

renaissanzelady

[Guest guest]

renaissanzelady wrote: " ... <snip> ... Since [the television show] I

have read stuff about Aspergers, and wonder if I have this syndrom

[sic] ... <snip> ... my question is: do you, my fellow group

members, think there is any advantage to my being analyzed

professionally to determine if I do have Aspergers? 3) my traits as

I see them ... <snip> ... "

None of the members here is licensed to practice medicine in all of

the countries in which we have forum members therefore no one is in a

position to provide you with an opinion that may be miscontrued as a

medical opinion.

While some of what you described can be found in individuals with AS,

many can also be associated with a number of other disorders or

differences including ADD/ADHD, OCD, Sensory Integration Disorder,

and more.

You should contact your primary medical practitioner and ask him or

her the questions you have posted here.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Greetings:

1) I am knew to this group, saw a documentary on TV which had interviews with parents of autistic children and adults with autism/Aspergers, two of the points brought forward were: is there prejudice against those people?, does society as a whole have a right to try and "fix" those people? Since then I have read stuff about Aspergers, and wonder if I have this syndrome.

The whole prejudice thing is an ongoing controversy. Depending on the venue, I may fervently defend autistics against discrimination, but I am just as likely to yell at autistics for trying to gain accommodations for themselves when those accommodations are underserved.

I believe that the issue cannot even be discussed without first educating people on what autism is and how it presents itself. To date we have movies like "Rainman" and "Mozart and the Whale" which have inaccurately depicted autistic spectrum disorders, but are the movies of choice people cite when you ask them about autism. "Idiot Savants" who are often paraded in front of talk show audiences also perpetuate certain untrue myths about ASDs.

2) my question is: do you, my fellow group members, think there is anyadvantage to my being analyzed professionally to determine if I dohave Aspergers?

It will give you peace of mind and will better help you to accept who you are. The downside is that it will exclude you from certain types of insurance in the US for having a "pre-existing condition" and people, including your own family members, may prejudice themselves against you if you reveal your diagnosis to them.

The choice has to be yours. One thing I might suggest is getting a diagnosis, but insisting that nothing be written down so that it remains "unofficial".

3) my traits as I see them

a) physical

- as a young child I "spun," still remember how relaxing it was (my mom would freak out, say it was a sign of mental problems)

That's a type of "spin" and could mean you are on the spectrum.

-don't appreciate being touched when I am already over whelmed, or notexpecting it.

Another sign.

-find it difficult to do physical things, have always been a klutz

That's an either/or thing. Clumsy movements are thought to be AS, but not lack of strength or inability to do physical activities. There is someone here who runs a lot. I have done mountain climbing and hiking and heavy physical labor without a hitch. I tend not to be clumsy at all.

-one of my jobs involves physically repetitive work, took me months tobecome proficient, now I enjoy it, find it relaxing

That you find routines relaxing is an indicator of being on the spectrum. Taking time to learn this routine is atypical except for those who are lower functioning.

-life bombards me with sensory input and I get overwhelmed

That's a sign you could be on the spectrum.

inner life:

-try to figure things logically

Could be indicative of you being on the spectrum. However, despite the prevailing idea that Aspies are cold and unemotional and lack empathy, they can indeed be motivated soley by emotions and non-critical thiking at times, or during the majority of times. Due to lack of social ability, Aspies may often fall back on logical thinking, but logic often fails them, and so they can become emotive thinkers as a result of this.

- am a snythesis thinker, (see the unusual, can hold 2 seemingly contradictory concepts together in my mind, etc)

Many on the spectrum possess this trait.

-am a loner and introvert, to an extreme

Many on the spectrum possess this trait.

- was immune to peer pressure as a teen

Many on the spectrum possess this trait. However, many Aspies have a very strong desire to integrate socially as do others on the spectrum.

-Hate multi-tasking, but am able to

Many people on the spectrum are the same. Some are different.

-Have a strong sense of justice/injustice, believe in minority rights

The justice/injustice thing is typical of some on the spectrum, but there are many who knowingly engage in criminal behavior through a sense of entitlement and are not sorry for their actions.

That you believe in minority rights is admirable, and many people on the spectrum firmly believe in some kind of cause or other. My causes are primarily autistic rights, animal rights, minority rights for native Americans, and environmentalism. I am firmly and decidedly against minority rights for illegal immigrants, and some ethnic segments of the population whom I believe as a whole, abuse the system, but at the same time I am for minority rights for people within those segments who are themselves abused despite their attempts to legitimately earn their living.

With that said "All or nothing" thinking tends to be a spectrum trait. This means for example that if a spectrumite is an environmentalist, he or she may be against all but the most conservative environmental plicies and will not be willing to concede that there are managed forest policies that might be ultimately beneficial, or limited hunting policies, are oil drilling rights.

-my whole life, I have felt people were trying to fix me or force me to conform

Could be an indication you are on the spectrum, but anyone who has been repressed may feel the same way.

-am able to focus and tune out many distractions, when I choose to

Presumably this means excluding things to the point where people could be standing next to you trying to get your attention and you wouldn't hear them. This is indicative of being on the spectrum, yet many who are not on the spectrum have been able to do this naturally, or through training. c) communication

- find it easier to communicate in writing than verbally

Can be a spevtrum thing, although many on the spectrum prefer verbal communication.

-find it difficult to understand subtleties in communication: body language, sarcasm, humour, don't do face time well

That can be a spectrum thing.

-others seem to mis-read my body language

That can be a spectrum thing.

-see verbal communication literally, speak my mind, but find others often still don't get what I am trying to say

That can be a spectrum thing.

- in reading books etc, I can understand sarcasm, metaphors, humour, its just verbal that cause me confusion

That can be a spectrum thing.

-read botany and geology books as a young person, now read both fiction and non fiction

That can be a spectrum thing.

-Find much human behaviour incomprehensible; have gained most understanding from books and a few "people whispers," some therapists have helped me learn to survive

That can be a spectrum thing.

-Find small talk very tiring, tend to avoid social settings

Definitely a spectrum thing.

-love participating in meetings, a more structured discussion, am Ok with reading or speaking to a large group (one of my friends said this may cause people to mis-read my personality, then they are puzzled that I don't "do" small talk well)

That can be a spectrum thing.

-Enjoy routine, tradition, ritual; both community and personal: (prefer attending a church with historic ritual, yearly liturgical cycle)

That can be a spectrum thing, but spectrumites tend to be across the board in terms of what they find preferable in a church setting. Some like structure of more traditional churches. Others prefer very vibrant and emotional churches.

-am under-employed according to friends and family (my part time work gives me opportunity to set own hours most days, I can contribute to the common good without constant interaction)

While it is true that many on the spectrum are under-employed, employment depends on employability and the willingness of spectrumites to push themselves to excel. There are those here who are self-employed and who have done quite nicely for themselves. And there are those on social assistance who need it. I do not begrudge any of these people their employment choices or their social assistance.

However, it also seems to me from first hand experience is that some Aspies will claim persecutions that do not exist as an excuse to claim preferential treatment for themselves. Right now, for example, I am dealing with a young person in a school setting who feels this way.

No one particularly likes work, yet they do it. I am sure that new immigrants don't like bussing tables when they were lab scientists at home, yet they do it until they work themselves up the ladder again. For those of us on the spectrum who are capable of doing the same kind of improvement to our circumstances, we need to try harder. I am genuinely interested in your honest opinions and will not be offended.My opinion is that the "Do you believe I am on the spectrum?" and "Do you believe I should seek a diagnosis?" questions have one answer: We cannot tell you because we are not licensed medical professionals, and so you have to decide for yourself and do what you think is best.

I would start by looking at the DSM IV and ICD 10 and deciding whether or not you fit the criteria for an ASD, and make your decision to seek diagnosis based on that.

Administrator

http://www.autism-in-the-christian-home.com/DSM-IV.html

DSM-IV 299.00 FOR AUTISTIC DISORDER

A. A total of six (or more) items from (1), (2), and (3), with at least two from (1), and one each from (2) and (3):

(1) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(a) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors, such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction

( failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

© a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest)

(d) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(2) qualitative impairments in communication, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(a) delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

( in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

© stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

(d) lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level

(3) restricted, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities as manifested by at least one of the following:

(a) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

( apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals

© stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting or complex whole-body movements)

(d) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

B. Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years: (1) social interaction, (2) language as used in social communication, or (3) symbolic or imaginative play.

C. The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder.

DSM-IV 299.80 FOR PERVASIVE DEVELOPMENTAL DISORDER - NOT OTHERWISE SPECIFIED

This category should be used when there is a severe and pervasive impairment in the development of reciprocal social interaction or verbal and nonverbal communication skills, or when stereotyped behavior, interests, and activities are present, but the criteria are not met for a specific pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia, schizotypal personality disorder, or avoidant personality disorder. For example, this category includes "atypical autism" --presentations that do not meet the criteria for autistic disorder because of late age of onset, atypical symptomatology, or subthreshold symptomatology, or all of these.

DSM-IV 299.80 FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors, such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction

(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

(3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

(4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

B. Restricted, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(1) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

(2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals

(3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

(4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years).

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

F. Criteria are not met for another specific pervasive developmental disorder or schizophrenia.

DSM-IV 299.80 FOR RETT'S DISORDER

A. All of the following:

(1) apparently normal prenatal and perinatal development

(2) apparently normal psychomotor development through the first 5 months after birth

(3) normal head circumference at birth

B. Onset of all of the following after the period of normal development:

(1) deceleration of head growth between ages 5 and 48 months

(2) loss of previously acquired purposeful hand skills between ages 5 and 30 months with the subsequent development of stereotyped hand movements (i.e., hand-wringing or hand washing)

(3) loss of social engagement early in the course (although often social interaction develops later)

(4) appearance of poorly coordinated gait or trunk movements

(5) severely impaired expressive and receptive language development with severe psychomotor retardation

DSM 299.10 FOR CHILDHOOD DISINTEGRATIVE DISORDER

A. Apparently normal development for at least the first 2 years after birth as manifested by the presence of age-appropriate verbal and nonverbal communication, social relationships, play, and adaptive behavior.

B. Clinically significant loss of previously acquired skills (before age 10 years) in at least two of the following areas:

(1) expressive or receptive language

(2) social skills or adaptive behavior

(3) bowel or bladder control

(4) play

(5) motor skills

C. Abnormalities of functioning in at least two of the following areas:

(1) qualitative impairement in social interaction (e.g., impairment in nonverbal behaviors, failure to develop peer relationships, lack of social or emotional reciprocity)

(2) qualitative impairments in communication (e.g., delay or lack of spoken language, inability to initiate or sustain a conversation, stereotyped and repetitive use of language, lack of varied make-believe play)

(3) restricted, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, including motor stereotypes and mannerisms

D. The disturbance is not better accounted for by another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or by schizophrenia.

http://www.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online/

F84 Pervasive developmental disorders

A group of disorders characterized by qualitative abnormalities in reciprocal social interactions and in patterns of communication, and by a restricted, stereotyped, repetitive repertoire of interests and activities. These qualitative abnormalities are a pervasive feature of the individual's functioning in all situations.

Use additional code, if desired, to identify any associated medical condition and mental retardation.

F84.0 Childhood autism

A type of pervasive developmental disorder that is defined by: (a) the presence of abnormal or impaired development that is manifest before the age of three years, and ( the characteristic type of abnormal functioning in all the three areas of psychopathology: reciprocal social interaction, communication, and restricted, stereotyped, repetitive behaviour. In addition to these specific diagnostic features, a range of other nonspecific problems are common, such as phobias, sleeping and eating disturbances, temper tantrums, and (self-directed) aggression.

Autistic disorder

Infantile:

· autism

· psychosis

Kanner's syndrome

Excludes: autistic psychopathy ( F84.5 )

F84.1 Atypical autism

A type of pervasive developmental disorder that differs from childhood autism either in age of onset or in failing to fulfil all three sets of diagnostic criteria. This subcategory should be used when there is abnormal and impaired development that is present only after age three years, and a lack of sufficient demonstrable abnormalities in one or two of the three areas of psychopathology required for the diagnosis of autism (namely, reciprocal social interactions, communication, and restricted, stereotyped, repetitive behaviour) in spite of characteristic abnormalities in the other area(s). Atypical autism arises most often in profoundly retarded individuals and in individuals with a severe specific developmental disorder of receptive language.

Atypical childhood psychosis

Mental retardation with autistic features

Use additional code (F70-F79), if desired, to identify mental retardation.

F84.2 Rett's syndrome

A condition, so far found only in girls, in which apparently normal early development is followed by partial or complete loss of speech and of skills in locomotion and use of hands, together with deceleration in head growth, usually with an onset between seven and 24 months of age. Loss of purposive hand movements, hand-wringing stereotypies, and hyperventilation are characteristic. Social and play development are arrested but social interest tends to be maintained. Trunk ataxia and apraxia start to develop by age four years and choreoathetoid movements frequently follow. Severe mental retardation almost invariably results.

F84.3 Other childhood disintegrative disorder

A type of pervasive developmental disorder that is defined by a period of entirely normal development before the onset of the disorder, followed by a definite loss of previously acquired skills in several areas of development over the course of a few months. Typically, this is accompanied by a general loss of interest in the environment, by stereotyped, repetitive motor mannerisms, and by autistic-like abnormalities in social interaction and communication. In some cases the disorder can be shown to be due to some associated encephalopathy but the diagnosis should be made on the behavioural features.

Dementia infantilis

Disintegrative psychosis

Heller's syndrome

Symbiotic psychosis

Use additional code, if desired, to identify any associated neurological condition.

Excludes: Rett's syndrome ( F84.2 )

F84.4 Overactive disorder associated with mental retardation and stereotyped movements

An ill-defined disorder of uncertain nosological validity. The category is designed to include a group of children with severe mental retardation (IQ below 35) who show major problems in hyperactivity and in attention, as well as stereotyped behaviours. They tend not to benefit from stimulant drugs (unlike those with an IQ in the normal range) and may exhibit a severe dysphoric reaction (sometimes with psychomotor retardation) when given stimulants. In adolescence, the overactivity tends to be replaced by underactivity (a pattern that is not usual in hyperkinetic children with normal intelligence). This syndrome is also often associated with a variety of developmental delays, either specific or global. The extent to which the behavioural pattern is a function of low IQ or of organic brain damage is not known.

F84.5 Asperger's syndrome

A disorder of uncertain nosological validity, characterized by the same type of qualitative abnormalities of reciprocal social interaction that typify autism, together with a restricted, stereotyped, repetitive repertoire of interests and activities. It differs from autism primarily in the fact that there is no general delay or retardation in language or in cognitive development. This disorder is often associated with marked clumsiness. There is a strong tendency for the abnormalities to persist into adolescence and adult life. Psychotic episodes occasionally occur in early adult life.

Autistic psychopathy

Schizoid disorder of childhood

F84.8 Other pervasive developmental disorders

F84.9 Pervasive developmental disorder, unspecified

[Guest guest]

Hi renaissanzelady,

and welcome to the group.

No.1 Yes there are definitely prejudices agaisnt people on the

spectrum, but such is usually borne out of ignorance and a lack of

awarness and I personally feel that no-one has the right to 'fix'

something/someone that isn't broken.

No.2. This is up to you and you have to decide whether the benefits

of having an offical dx outweigh the downsides to such. Having a dx

can give one peace of mind. I guess you need to ask yourself are you

willing to go through such a process that is needed for the dx and

what are the costs, financially and otherwise?

No.3 As for your traits a lot of them yes do seem to fit Aspergers,

but I cannot judge such conclusively as I am no expert. I am also

aware that sometimes people without Aspergers can have some traits

that would fit Aspergers, but taken as just an isolated trait do not

meet the criteria. I think in this country (UK) that part of the

criteria for a dx is that the traits/symptoms? cause one difficulty

to some extent in every day functioning (not sure if I've worded that

adequately), not sure if this is the same for dx's in other countries?

P.S Hope you enjoy the forum/group.

>

> Greetings:

> 1) I am knew to this group, saw a documentary on TV which had

> interviews with paretnts of autistic children and adults with

> autism/Aspergers, two of the points brought forward were: is there

> prejudice against those people?, does society as a whole have a

right

> to try and " fix " those people? Since then I have read stuff about

> Aspergers, and wonder if I have this syndrom.

> 2) my question is: do you, my fellow group members, think there is

any

> advantage to my being analyzed professionally to determine if I do

> have Aspergers?

> 3) my traits as I see them

> a) physical

> - as a young child I " spun, " still remember how relaxing it was (my

> mom would freak out, say it was a sign of mental problems)

> -don't appreciate being touched when I am already over whelmed, or

not

> expecting it

> -find it difficult to do physical things, have always been a klutz

> -one of my jobs involves physically repetitive work, took me months

to

> become proficient, now I enjoy it, find it relaxing

> -life bombards me with sensory input and I get overwhelmed

>

> inner life:

> -try to figure things logically

> - am a sythesis thinker, (see the unusual, can hold 2 seemingly

> contradictory concepts together in my mind, etc)

> -am a loner and introvert, to an extreme

> - was immune to peer pressure as a teen

> -Hate multi-tasking, but am able to

> -Have a strong sense of justice/injustice, believe in minority

rights

> -my whole life, I have felt people were trying to fix me or force me

> to conform

> -am able to focus and tune out many distractions, when I chose to

>

> c) communication

> - find it easier to communicate in writing than verbally

> -find it difficult to understand subtleties in communication: body

> language, sarcasm, humour, don't do face time well

> -others seem to mis-read my body language

> -see verbal communication literally, speak my mind, but find others

> often still don't get what I am trying to say

> - in reading books etc, I can understand sarcasm, metaphors, humour,

> its just verbal that cause me confusion

> -read botany and geology books as a young person, now read both

> fiction and non fiction

> -Find much human behaviour incomprehensible; have gained most

> understanding from books and a few " people whispers, " some

therapists

> have helped me learn to survive

> -Find small talk very tiring, tend to avoid social settings

> -love participating in meetings, a more structured discussion, am Ok

> with reading or speaking to a large group (one of my friends said

this

> may cause people to mis-read my personality, then they are puzzled

> that I don't " do " small talk well)

> -Enjoy routine, tradition, ritual; both community and personal:

> (prefer attending a church with historic ritual, yearly liturgical

cycle)

> -am under-employed according to friends and family (my part time

work

> gives me opportunity to set own hours most days, I can contribute to

> the common good without constant interaction)

>

> I am genuinely interested in your honest opinions and will not be

> offended.

>

> renaissanzelady

>