Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Wow, I find myself in deep wonder: are those classes 1-on-1 teacher/student classes for that price, or are you just another student of some larger group, and if some percentage receive " financial assistance " as a result of others paying full price? If I had any thoughts that Son Rise worked, it'd be a win-win situation for being a teacher with that kind of money coming in, or if I could overlook the amount of BS and what it does... I'd better stick to trying to branch out into games, as at least I'll be able to sleep at night. > > > As was shown in my previous post, there are no studies to show that it > is effective and it would seem that it has a negative impact on parents. > > Here is what you pay for this experience: > > http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infoleve\ > l=4 > <http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infolev\ > el=4> > Costs > The Autism Treatment Center of America provides the following courses at > the following prices: > > * Start Up Program. Five day introductory course designed to give > people the tools to design and implement their own home programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or ₤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in the UK. * Intensive Program. Week long, personalized > course during which the child and parents live at the Autism Treatment > Center of America. ₤5,650/ $11,500. * Maximum Impact Program. > More advanced, personalized version of the Start Up programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or ₤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in the UK. > > It offers phone consultations, free for the first 25 minutes and > ₤270/ $550 per 50 minutes thereafter. > > It also provides information for families who may need financial > assistance or help with fundraising. > Credentials > There are no formal, internationally validated registered qualifications > for people using this intervention, since any parent or carer can choose > to do so. > > However, the Autism Treatment Center of America does provide a variety > of training courses for the staff who lead the parent courses. > Availability > The Son-Rise™ programme is available to anyone anywhere, although > the Autism Treatment Center of America recommends that parents should > receive training first. This training is available in the US, Europe and > elsewhere. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 I am a consultant for the education department in this school district. As I have a good salary, I have never charged for private work for autism, including speaking. When I speak at conferences, they do often pay for transport and accommodation, so in that sense I do profit as I save the money I would have spent on power and food at home. However I have never asked for expenses and pay my own way for smaller conferences. When I support families privately I do so at my own expense. I would not have the cheek to take money when I have enough. When I prepare for retirement from teaching, I will charge because I do not have enough superannuation to live on. I will start a consultancy and charge fees based on ability to pay. That means some people will pay a minimal amount and others will pay a fair fee. I am not a leech. Re: Costs of Son-Rise Wow, I find myself in deep wonder: are those classes 1-on-1 teacher/student classes for that price, or are you just another student of some larger group, and if some percentage receive "financial=2 0assistance" as a result of others paying full price? If I had any thoughts that Son Rise worked, it'd be a win-win situation for being a teacher with that kind of money coming in, or if I could overlook the amount of BS and what it does... I'd better stick to trying to branch out into games, as at least I'll be able to sleep at night. > > > As was shown in my previous post, there are no studies to show that it > is effective and it would seem that it has a negative impact on parents. > > Here is what you pay for this experience: > > http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infoleve\ > l=4 > <http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infolev\ > el=4> > Costs > The Autism Treatment Center of America provides the following courses at > the following prices: > > * Start Up Program. Five day introductory course designed to give > people the tools to design and implement their own home programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or ₤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in=2 0the UK. * Intensive Program. Week long, personalized > course during which the child and parents live at the Autism Treatment > Center of America. ₤5,650/ $11,500. * Maximum Impact Program. > More advanced, personalized version of the Start Up programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or ₤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in the UK. > > It offers phone consultations, free for the first 25 minutes and > ₤270/ $550 per 50 minutes thereafter. > > It also provides information for families who may need financial > assistance or help with fundraising. > Credentials > There are no formal, internationally validated registered qualifications > for people using this intervention, since any parent or carer can choose > to do so. > > However, the Autism Treatment Center of America does provide a variety > of training courses for the staff who lead the parent courses. > Availability > The Son-Rise™ programme is available to anyone anywhere, although > the Autism Treatment Center of America recommends that parents should > receive training first. This training is available in the US, Europe and > elsewhere. > ------------------------------------ FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e -mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 Earlier in the thread you were attempting to state you have no credibility, and no real authority on things. As far as your local school district is concerned, they think you are, because they wouldn't pay otherwise. If you have any belief that anything is wrong with Son Rise for being correct at all, and you're foisting it off as a " proven, tested thing " when you know it isn't, and even more, you're being paid for it, even though you take some amount of pro bono or at least lower-paid work claiming Son Rise is correct, it doesn't matter as far as I can see: you're still doing more harm than good. Here's a great litmus test: if Son Rise is truly effective, and you truly support it, and you practice their methods, have someone else do it on you with the same intensity it'd be done on a child. > > > I am a consultant for the education department in this school district. As I have a good salary, I have never charged for private work for autism, including speaking. When I speak at conferences, they do often pay for transport and accommodation, so in that sense I do profit as I save the money I would have spent on power and food at home. However I have never asked for expenses and pay my own way for smaller conferences. When I support families privately I do so at my own expense. I would not have the cheek to take money when I have enough. When I prepare for retirement from teaching, I will charge because I do not have enough superannuation to live on. I will start a consultancy and charge fees based on ability to pay. That means some people will pay a minimal amount and others will pay a fair fee. I am not a leech. > > > Re: Costs of Son-Rise > > > > Wow, I find myself in deep wonder: are those classes 1-on-1 teacher/student > lasses for > hat price, or are you just another student of some larger group, and if some > ercentage > eceive " financial assistance " as a result of others paying full price? If I > ad any thoughts > hat Son Rise worked, it'd be a win-win situation for being a teacher with that > ind of > oney coming in, or if I could overlook the amount of BS20and what it does... > I'd better stick to trying to branch out into games, as at least I'll be able to > leep at night. > --- In FAMSecretSociety , environmental1st2003 <no_reply@> > rote: > > > As was shown in my previous post, there are no studies to show that it > is effective and it would seem that it has a negative impact on parents. > > Here is what you pay for this experience: > > http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infoleve\ > l=4 > <http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infolev\ > el=4> > Costs > The Autism Treatment Center of America provides the following courses at > the following prices: > > * Start Up Program. Five day introductory course designed to give > people the tools to design and implement their own home programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or ₤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in the UK. * Intensive Program. Week long, personalized > course during which the child and parents live at the Autism Treatment > Center of America. ₤5,650/ $11,500. * Maximum Impact Program. > More advanced, personalized version of the Start Up programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or ₤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in the UK. > > It offers phone consultations, free for the first 25 minutes and > ₤270/ $550 per 50 minutes thereafter. > > It also provides information for families who may need financial > assistance o > r help with fundraising. > Credentials > There are no formal, internationally validated registered qualifications > for people using this intervention, since any parent or carer can choose > to do so. > > However, the Autism Treatment Center of America does provide a variety > of training courses for the staff who lead the parent courses. > Availability > The Son-Rise™ programme is available to anyone anywhere, although > the Autism Treatment Center of America recommends that parents should > receive training first. This training is available in the US, Europe and > elsewhere. > > > > ----------------------------------- > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and > cceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this > -mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner > Check the Links section for more FAM forums. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 jprobertson wrote: " I am a consultant for the education department in this school district ... <snip> ... I am not a leech. " This just proves that you are a PUBLIC figure and ergo anything that has been written about you or that you have agreed to have published whether online or in real life underscores the fact that you present yourself as an infuential individual in one or more fields. As I stated earlier, you cannot play both ends against the middle in an attempt to fool people and to escape responsibility for your comments. To claim that you do not have credibility because you do not have money to purchase credibility is now even more ludicrous a claim on your part than it was before your position as a consultant for the education department in your school district was mentioned in this more recent post. If you are a consultant for the education department in your school district, they you and the school district feel you are credible. If you do not believe you are credible, then you are committing fraud and misrepresenting yourself to the education department in your school district. How sad is that if the latter is more true than the former? Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 I am not an authority ion autism. I have done no research to show efficacy. I do what I do. People seem to think children who are happy and learning and want to go to school have something good happening for them. This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school environments and I am often close to giving ujp. I think that there are many methods of working with people with autism and they all seem to have strengths and weakenesses. I see nothing wrong with looking for the good and discarding the bad. I see plenty wrong with using a "method" as a recipe for working with all. I also see plenty wrong with charging families a fortune for things they need to know, so I do not suggest that families go that way. I show them the things that work for their children and help them to see why other aspects do not. I want to clear this up. I did not say Son Rise is effective. I do not promote depriving children of freedom to submit them to hours of invasive attention. I say that connecting with children through their stims is effective. Connecting with adults through their interests is effective too. lol and at times stims can draw ppl together. I am lucky to have a lover who if he sees me rocking, just sits and rocks=2 0too unril I am ready to talk. That was a big connection when we met, that this person just accepted me withhout knowing anything about me. Through his acceptatnce he has got to know me more than anyone else. I also feel that it is a big leap to judge my practice by the fact that I like one thing about Son Rise. hey I loathe ABA but there are many strategies in that which I would use too. There are others that I would never use, considering them cruel and invasive. Backward chaining is one I use a lot. So is data collection so that I can demonstrate effectiveness. RDI is terrribly expensive but they have strategies which help some people too. No way would I tell someone to take on RDI as a bank breaking program which does not help everyone. Pivotal Response has a lot of things in it which are very useful for mainstream schools and they have a free manual to help parents. I give parents that manual if the child is non verbal, but I do not propose that they fly to USA to complete the program. I work in a multi disciplinary team with a speech pathologist, a psychologist and an occupational therapist. I make no recommedations based on medical interventions. I promise no cures, just a child who is autistic functioning more comfortably as an autistic in a more autism friendly environment. IIf that is against the ethos of this forum, I am gobsmacked. Re: Costs of Son-Rise > > > > Wow, I find myself in deep wonder: are those classes 1-on-1 teacher/student > lasses for > hat price, or are you just another student of some larger group, and if some > ercentage > eceive "financial assistance" as a result of others paying full price? If I > ad any thoughts > hat Son Rise worked, it'd be a win-win situation for being a teacher with that > ind of > oney coming in, or if I could overlook the amount of BS20and what it does... > I'd better stick to trying to branch out into games, as at least I'll be able to > leep at night. > --- In FAMSecretSociety , environmental1st2003 <no_reply@> > rote: > > > As was shown in my previous post, there are no studies to show that it > is effective and it would seem that it has a negative impact on parents. > > Here is what you pay for this experience: > > http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infoleve\ > l=4 > <http://www.researchautism.net/interventionitem.ikml?print & ra=23 & infolev\ > el=4> > Costs > The Autism Treatment Center of America provides the following courses at > the following prices: > > * Start Up Program. Five day introductory course designed to give > people the tools to design and implement their own home programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or â⠀šÂ¤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in the UK. * Intensive Program. Week long, personalized > course during which the child and parents live at the Autism Treatment > Center of America. ₤5,650/ $11,500. * Maximum Impact Program. > More advanced, personalized version of the Start Up programme. > ₤1,000/ $1,995 if delivered in the USA or ₤1,170/ $2,385 if > delivered in the UK. > > It offers phone consultations, free for the first 25 minutes and > ₤270/ $550 per 50 minutes thereafter. > > It also provides information for families who may need financial > assistance o > r help with fundraising. > Credentials > There are no formal, internationally validated registered qualifications > for people using this intervention, since any parent or carer can choose > to do so. > > However, the Autism Treatment Center of America does provide a variety > of training courses for the staff who lead the parent courses. > Availability > The Son-Riseâ„¢ programme is available to anyone anywhere, although > the Autism Treatment Center of America recommends that parents should > receive training first. This training is available in the US, Europe and > elsewhere. > > =0 A> > ----------------------------------- > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and > cceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this > -mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner > Check the Links section for more FAM forums. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 I take full responsibilty for my comments. I do not want Donna to be associated with any backlash as she has nothing to do with my opinions. Re: Costs of Son-Rise jprobertson wrote: "I am a consultant for the education department in this school district ... <snip> ... I am not a leech." This just proves that you are a PUBLIC figure and ergo anything that has been written about you or that you have agreed to have published whether online or in real life underscores the fact that you present yourself as an infuential individual in one or more fields. As I stated earlier, you cannot play both ends against the middle in an attempt to fool people and to escape responsibility for your comments. To claim that you do not have credibility because you do not have money to purchase credibility is now even more ludicrous a claim on your part than it was before your position as a consultant for the education department in your school district was mentioned in this more recent post. If you are a consultant for the education department in your school district, they you and the school district feel you are credible. If you do not believe you are credible, then you are committing fraud and misrepresenting yourself to the education department in your school district. How sad is that if the latter is more true than the former? Raven ------------------------------------ FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I am not an authority ion [sic] autism. I have done no research to show efficacy ... <snip> ... " Yes, it is patently obvious that you have done no research however you present yourself as an authority and 'literally thousands' of people seriously consider your advice when making decisions that affect their children. gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I do what I do. People seem to think children who are happy and learning and want to go to school have something good happening for them. This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school environments and I am often close to giving ujp [sic] ... <snip> ... " If you are so successful at what you do -- 100% success rate according to your previous post -- then there's no reason for being " close to giving ujp (sic) [end quote]. " And I doubt this is the only place on the net or in real life where you have been taken to task for your irresponsible promotion of dangerous programs and therapies. If it is, it is only because you have surrounded yourself with people who glom on to your every word and think you are " it " in the world of Autism. Maybe for them you are however your " it " factor lacks character as you continue to endanger Autistic children while claiming a 100% success rate. gprobert wrote: " ... <snip> ... there are many methods of working with people with autism and they all seem to have strengths and weakenesses. I see nothing wrong with looking for the good and discarding the bad. I see plenty wrong with using a " method " as a recipe for working with all. I also see plenty wrong with charging families a fortune for things they need to know, so I do not suggest that families go that way. I show them the things that work for their children and help them to see why other aspects do not ... <snip> ... " You see nothing wrong with a program that includes AIT which deafens a child? I see a LOT wrong with that. You see nothing wrong with a program that includes the GFCF diet which leads to child malnutrition and sometimes death? I see a LOT wrong with that. I find a lot wrong with programs and therapies and individuals who base the succcess on the interventions on achieving goals regardless of the means required to get there when it has been scientifically proven that the means DAMAGE and sometimes KILL the individual. Yes, perhaps YOU don't find anything wrong with endangering others, but many of us DO find a LOT wrong with that sort of short-term close- minded thinking. gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I want to clear this up. I did not say Son Rise is effective. I do not promote depriving children of freedom to submit them to hours of invasive attention. I say that connecting with children through their stims is effective. Connecting with adults through their interests is effective too. lol and at times stims can draw ppl together ... <snip> ... " You have given SonRise credence by even mentioning it in positive terms to others. This means that you DO " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 gprobertson wrote: " I take full responsibilty for my comments. I do not want Donna to be associated with any backlash as she has nothing to do with my opinions. " Good Lord, woman, get a grip on yourself! No one is doing anything to Donna ! You claimed you were a person of influence on October 4, 2008 when you claimed to have dealt with 'literally thousands' of children. Four very basic parameters were plugged into a search engine and your interview with Donna popped up. It goes to the heart of what you claim about yourself which is contradictory: you have dealt with 'literally thousands' of children and you do not have credibility. If you had been interviewed by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, it would have proven that you cannot claim to be seen by others as having " no " credibility in the Autism field. Providing proof that you had been interviewed by ABC (had that happened) would not have meant that anyone is against ABC. How you make these leaps in logic is beyond any reasonable person's understanding. As for posting that you are worried about 'backlash' against Donna speaks more about how YOU operate than how anyone here operates. Perhaps I should be concerned that you will bring some 'backlash' to my initiative? I don't think so as I know that my initiative is based solidly in medical science and medical research so any 'backlash' that anyone could attempt to bring to my initiative would be seen for what it is ... a personal vendetta. But that YOU would even mention a 'backlash' has me 'gobsmacked' to say the least. Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 " I am not an authority ion autism. I have done no research to show efficacy. I do what I do. People seem to think children who are happy and learning and want to go to school have something good happening for them. This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school environments and I am often close to giving up. " Here is the central issue: While, your own autism allows you to be sympathetic to other autistics, I think on some level you still separate yourself from other autistics, else you could see clearly which treatments and therapies are inhumane and ineffective and you would be MORE likely to read and research the science that out there so as not to risk harming an autistic person in any way. That you have not been called to task before is probably because you have not encountered people who have spent so much time researching autism and interacting with autistics, autism organizations, and medical professionals and researchers directly. I will not say that we are more active than anyone else in the autism community per se, but I will suggest that we are more knowledgeable than most and have spent countless hours studying research and working it in practicum. We have interacted with autistics and with auytism organizations. We know the science, and our experience has allowed to us to see how all sorts of things from pride to ignorance to laziness to shoddy research to uncaring parents to ignorant parents etc., all have negative effects producing negative outcomes on autistics. You may want to put yourself in the place of whatever autistic is being " treated " and ask yourself that if you were he or she, what would TRULY work to help that person an whether or not the treatment really had any merits. As for the Son Rise program, I would like to point out something else about it. Pretend for a moment you are a parent and you need help. You are on a shoestring budget and you may have to take out a small loan to pay for this therapy. But without Son Rise, you know your child is going fail. Now let's take a look at the Son Rise program itself which promotes itself as a sort of miracle treatment program. If their motives were purely altruistic, the program would cost very little at all. After all, is it moral or ethical to sit on such outstanding knowledge and not dispense it to all these people whose lives will suffer without it? If anything, they should dispense it free to the public with grants funding their services. We can see by their fees that they outweigh the actual net costs of the program by many times, and we know that " financial assistance " is available to those who need it. This suggests they are not willing to give much on their pricing. So straight from square one, these people are immoral and unethical. They are the equivalent of medical doctors who have a heart waiting for a transplant patient and who won't put the heart in unless the patient can guarantee they can pay for it. You recommend these people. And then rehashing the old argument: Many of their techniques have been unapproved for use in treating autism by government organizations. Thus Son Rise endangers autistics by using these methods. You recommend these people. That they mix good techniques with bad techniques does not change the fact that they are unethical, immoral, and an organization that endangers autistics. You recommend these people. As an autistic yourself, would you place yourself in such danger? Yet you have no problem doing it with others. Because of the influence that Raven and I have in the autistic community, we are obligated to inform you of your mistakes and how they affect people. " I think that there are many methods of working with people with autism and they all seem to have strengths and weakenesses. I see nothing wrong with looking for the good and discarding the bad. " That's a specious argument. It has been proven that Son Rise harms people. Would you say " Well, there is good in sex offenders too, so I think it's okay to keep them around children? " " I say that connecting with children through their stims is effective. " Okay. " I also feel that it is a big leap to judge my practice by the fact that I like one thing about Son Rise. hey I loathe ABA but there are many strategies in that which I would use too. There are others that I would never use, considering them cruel and invasive. Backward chaining is one I use a lot. So is data collection so that I can demonstrate effectiveness. RDI is terrribly expensive but they have strategies which help some people too. No way would I tell someone to take on RDI as a bank breaking program which does not help everyone. Pivotal Response has a lot of things in it which are very useful for mainstream schools and they have a free manual to help parents. I give parents that manual if the child is non verbal, but I do not propose that they fly to USA to complete the program. I work in a multi disciplinary team with a speech pathologist, a psychologist and an occupational therapist. I make no recommedations based on medical interventions. I promise no cures, just a child who is autistic functioning more comfortably as an autistic in a more autism friendly environment. IIf that is against the ethos of this forum, I am gobsmacked. " Let me ask you this: In any of these instances, did the child ASK for any of this help? And did the treatment persist when they protested against it? Too often, we believe that we are doing the correct thing helping " these people " and we do not stop to think that " these people " could have been " us " had circumstances been different and that we would not want -or need- to be helped if we were in those circumstances. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 gprobertson wrote: " I take full responsibilty for my comments. I do not want Donna to be associated with any backlash as she has nothing to do with my opinions. " No one here is going to impugn Donna for anything you have said or done. There are enough people here who associate with her directly that we think highly of her most of the time anyway. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 You said: " This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school environments and I am often close to giving up. " Just wanted to add that most autistics are not very active in defending other autistics, which is not unusual given many of us tend to live in our own little worlds. I once asked everyone on this forum to post a link to our podcasts on their sites to spread the world to people about ASDs. To date, there is only one member that I knowof who has actually put up a link, and that was Maurice. Others have listened to the podcasts and refferred others to them, but the vast majority just is not interested in doing that sort of thing. Yet if you ask them directly, they do care just as much as we do about autistics who are subjected to therapies they don't want to be subjected to. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 When I say I am not an authority, you say I am. Then you tell me I am not an authority. I don't really know how to address contradtictions like this. If it is, it is only because you have surrounded yourself with people who glom on to your every word and think you are "it" in the world of Autism. I never insult you, no matter what I think of your opinions. I never make personal attacks on you and I treat you with respect. This is insulting and untrue. I am not afraid of people disagreeing or I would not be here now. You see nothing wrong with a program that includes AIT which deafens a child? I see a LOT wrong with that. Um, where did I say that I use AIT? GFCF, I use it myself. I am casein intolerant. I was casein intolerant at birth. I have no idea if this is to do with autism or something else. I don't care. I have never been able to ingest casein. If I ingest casein, I vomit and have severe diarhea within half an hour (could not be bothered to check the spelling on that). Ingesting casein regularly would give me severe malnutrition. I cannot eat glutein atm because I have a gastric band and glutein clogs up the hole in the band. This means that I cannot eat until I have vomitted up the glutein. Nothing to do with auti sm and a lot to do with glutein being gluggy. I do not promote dietary interventions for other people because I have no medical qualifications. I do not want to get sued if anyone dies because they followed my advice. I am a teacher, not a doctor. PRT One of the aspects of PRT that I like was that it was the first therapy to begin to evaluate which children are supported by it and which are not. Mercury and other heavy metals: Hmm. I think mercury causes mercury poisoning. I think lead causes lead poisoning. I know that both have characteristics which can be confused with autism. I would suggest that any family living in a mining area get that checked because the children may not be autistic but may have heavy metal toxicity. I live in a mining area and this has in fact happened here. Dr. E. Gutstein, the creator of RDI, says the goal of RDI is for each person to be excited about expanding their world rather than to be afraid of it. I do not promote that program, as I said. I have manuals and use many of the games in social settings to help children understand their peers with autism and to help peers learn play skills. They are graduated so that no child needs to be out of comfort zone. In my experience, children with autism are very excited about expanding their horizons provided this is done in a gentle20way. Do I put my perceptions of what people need on children. Definitely. I think people need to be able to cope with touch. This is extremely difficult for me and I have suffered from not being able to see a dr or dentist at stressful times in my life. That is not necessarily about desensitizing an individual. It is about managing environment and promoting awareness of the issues for others so that the individual is less sensitized. I think lives are enriched by the ability to communicate. I think lives are enriched by having communication partners who recognize that they are responsible for meeting the autistic person in communication as much as the autistic person needs to communicate with them. Oops. Somehow I got back to the evil practice of joining an autistic child in his or her own world. I think people need to have healthy diets. This might need careful management for a child with autism and might never be a conventional diet, but to me it is unacceptable for people to be malnourished. I do not deliver this part of a program because I am not a nutritionist but I support anything that is reasonable and not invasive ie I do not force feed anyone. I think it is responsible to teach people to keep themselves safe. I think literacy is a gift and we should teach individuals in the ways they learn best, not by a particular method or set of books that happen to be in a school. 0AThere are heaps more but I will insist that a child cannot necessarily make these choices because a child may not know that the choices exist. On the other hand, I also believe that there are many ways in which even babies can influence decision making and that carers have an obligation to take these responses into account when planning developmental experiences. If encouraging a child to see the possibilities in the world is abusive, then I am abusive and make no apology for it. Why would you 'research' some practices that are logical and simple and then refuse to 'research' those practices that have far more serious implications to the Autistic child? I did not refuse to research Son Rise. This is not a program that is available here. If it was, I would not be recommending that parents fork out large amounts of money to people who make enormous profits from something they could provide in a more affordable way. I am not even starting to judge the program here. I am judging the humanity of the providers. A colleague of mine was funded to go to the USA to study methods of teaching autistic children. She brought back many videos which we watched and analysed. There was one aspect of Son Rise that we all liked. It was something that people had seen me doing naturally with children who do not connect with the people in their lives. I am 'gobsmacked' that you feel it is appropriate to turn a blind eye to what has been proven to be dangerous to Autistics in order to earn a dollar all the while claiming to have a 100% success rate. I won't even begin to guess at what would cause you to be so irresponsible with regards to another person's mental and physical well-being. it would be irresponsible to turn a blind eye to something helpful just because I did not like most elements of a program. If I was promoting shock therapy or keeping children working at table top tasks for 40 hours a week I could understand your rage. You would be right. I am promoting something respectful It is respectful to meet autistics half way. Cure is not respectful. I do not promote that aspect. Re: Costs of Son-Rise gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I am not an authority ion [sic] autism. I have done no research to show efficacy ... <snip> ... " Yes, it is patently obvious that you have done no research however you present yourself as an authority and 'literall y thousands' of people seriously consider your advice when making decisions that affect their children. gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I do what I do. People seem to think children who are happy and learning and want to go to school have something good happening for them. This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school environments and I am often close to giving ujp [sic] ... <snip> ... " If you are so successful at what you do -- 100% success rate according to your previous post -- then there's no reason for being " close to giving ujp (sic) [end quote]." And I doubt this is the only place on the net or in real life where you have been taken to task for your irresponsible promotion of dangerous programs and therapies. If it is, it is only because you have surrounded yourself with people who glom on to your every word and think you are "it" in the world of Autism. Maybe for them you are however your "it" factor lacks character as you continue to endanger Autistic children while claiming a 100% success rate. gprobert wrote: " ... <snip> ... there are many methods of working with people with autism and they all seem to have strengths and weakenesses. I see nothing wrong with lookin g for the good and discarding the bad. I see plenty wrong with using a "method" as a recipe for working with all. I also see plenty wrong with charging families a fortune for things they need to know, so I do not suggest that families go that way. I show them the things that work for their children and help them to see why other aspects do not ... <snip> ... " You see nothing wrong with a program that includes AIT which deafens a child? I see a LOT wrong with that. You see nothing wrong with a program that includes the GFCF diet which leads to child malnutrition and sometimes death? I see a LOT wrong with that. I find a lot wrong with programs and therapies and individuals who base the succcess on the interventions on achieving goals regardless of the means required to get there when it has been scientifically proven that the means DAMAGE and sometimes KILL the individual. Yes, perhaps YOU don't find anything wrong with endangering others, but many of us DO find a LOT wrong with that sort of short-term close- minded thinking. gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I want to clear this up. I did not say Son Rise is effective. I do not promote depriving children of freedom to submit them to hours of invasive attention. I say that connecting with children through their stims is effective. Connecting with adults through their interests is effective too. lol and at times stims can draw ppl together ... <snip> ... " You have given SonRise credence by even mentioning it in positive terms to others. This means that you DO " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 I have been interviewed by the ABC. I dislike the interview. It was distorted and badly edited so I cannot bring myself to publish the URL as the ideas expressed do not reflect mine. For a start, I said that I did not want to be portrayed as a sufferer. The interview was advertised as the hidden suffering of autistics and this humiliated me. Fortunately people who know me also know that this is not how I live. I am not a victim. I think that there seems to be a fair amount of dislike for me and my thoughts in this forum. Donna's name is linked with mine in the subject of some emails. Donna has no idea of my opinions on some of these matters and I do not want her name or reputation mixed with mine when there is controversy. That is about my respect for her reputation. It could be stupid, but I do not want anyone linking Donna's name with dislike or controversy that is not hers. She has suffered enormously from people who have been mislead about her opinions and experiences and I do not even want the remote possiblity of causing her more grief by association with things I have said. Re: Costs of Son-Rise gprobertson wrote: "I take full responsibilty for my comments. I do not want Donna to be associated with any backlash as she has nothing to do with my opinions." Good Lord, woman, get a grip on yourself! No one is doing anything to Donna ! You claimed you were a person of influence on October 4, 2008 when you claimed to have dealt with 'literally thousands' of children. Four very basic parameters were plugged into a search engine and your interview with Donna popped up. It goes to the heart of what you claim about yourself which is contradictory: you have dealt with 'literally thousands' of children and you do not have credibility. If you had been interviewed by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, it would have proven that you cannot claim to be seen by others as having "no" credibility in the Autism field. Providing proof that you had been interviewed by ABC (had that happened) would not have meant that anyone is against ABC. How you make these leaps in logic is beyond any reasonable person's understanding. As for posting that you are worried about 'backlash' against Donna speaks more about how YOU operate than how anyone here operates. Perhaps I should be concerned that you will bring some 'backlash' to my initiative? I don't think so as I know that my initiative is based solidly in medical science and medical research so any 'backlash' that anyone could attempt to bring to my initiative would be seen for what it is ... a personal vendetta. But that YOU would even mention a 'backlash' has me 'gobsmacked' to say the least. Raven ------------------------------------ FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 so tell me the science. Re: Costs of Son-Rise "I am not an authority ion autism. I have done no research to show efficacy. I do what I do. People seem to think children who are happy and learning and want to go to school have something good happening for them. This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school environments and I am often close to giving up." Here is the central issue: While, your own autism allows you to be sympathetic to other autistics, I think on some level you still separate yourself from other autistics, else you could see clearly which treatments and therapies are inhumane and ineffective and you would be MORE likely to read and research the science that out there so as not to risk harming an autistic person in any way. That you have not been called to task before is probably because you have not encountered people who have spent so much time researching autism and interacting with autistics, autism organizations, and medical professionals and researchers directly. I will not say that we are more active than anyone else in the autism community per se, but I will suggest that we are more knowledgeable than most and have spent countless hours studying research and working it in practicum. We have interacted with autistics and with auytism organizations. We know the science, and our experience has allowed to us to see how all sorts of things from pride to ignorance to laziness to shoddy research to uncaring parents to ignorant parents etc., all have negative effects producing negative outcomes on autistics. You may want to put yourself in the place of whatever autistic is being "treated" and ask yourself that if you were he or she, what would TRULY work to help that person an whether or not the treatment really had any merits. As for the Son Rise program, I would like to point out something else about it. Pretend for a moment you are a parent and you need help. You are on a shoestring budget and you may have to take out a small loan to pay for this therapy. But without Son Rise, you know your child is going fail. Now let's take a look at the Son Rise program itself which promotes itself as a sort of miracle treatment program. If their motives were purely altruistic, the program would cost very little at all. After all, is it moral or ethical to sit on such outstanding knowledge and not dispense it to all these people whose lives will suffer without it? If anything, they should dispense it free to the public with grants funding their services. We can see by their fees that they outweigh the actual net costs of the program by many times, and we know that "financial assistance" is available to those who need it. This suggests they are not willing to give much on their pricing. So straight from square one, these people are immoral and unethical. They are the equivalent of medical doctors who have a heart waiting for a transplant patient and who won't put the heart in unless the patient can guarantee they can pay for it. You recommend these people. And then rehashing the old argument: Many of their techniques have been unapproved for use in treating autism by government organizations. Thus Son Rise endangers autistics by using these methods. You recommend these people. That they mix good techniques with bad techniques does not change the fact that they are unethical, immoral, and an organization that endangers autistics. You recommend these people. As an autistic yourself, would you place yourself in such danger? Yet you have no problem doing it with others. Because of the influence that Raven and I have in the autistic community, we are obligated to inform you of your mistakes and how they affect people. "I think that there are many methods of working with people with autism and they all seem to have strengths and weakenesses. I see nothing wrong with looking for the good and discarding the bad." That's a specious argument. It has been proven that Son Rise harms people. Would you say "Well, there is good in sex offenders too, so I think it's okay to keep them around children?" "I say that connecting with children through their stims is effective." Okay. "I also feel that it is a big leap to judge my practice by the fact that I like one thing about Son Rise. hey I loathe ABA but there are many strategies in that which I would use too. There are others that I would never use, considering them cruel and invasive. Backward chaining is one I use a lot. So is data collection so that I can demonstrate effectiveness. RDI is terrribly expensive but they have strategies which help some people too. No way would I tell someone to take on RDI as a bank breaking program which does not help everyone. Pivotal Response has a lot of things in it which are very useful for mainstream schools and they have a free manual to help parents. I give parents that manual if the child is non verbal, but I do not propose that they fly to USA to complete the program. I work in a multi disciplinary team with a speech pathologist, a psychologist and an occupational therapist. I make no recommedations based on medical interventions. I promise no cures, just a child who is autistic functioning more comfortably as an autistic in a more autism friendly environment. IIf that is against the ethos of this forum, I am gobsmacked." Let me ask you this: In any of these instances, did the child ASK for any of this help? And did the treatment persist when they protested against it? Too often, we believe that we are doing the correct thing helping "these people" and we do not stop to think that "these people" could have been "us" had circumstances been different and that we would not want -or need- to be helped if we were in those circumstances. Administrator ------------------------------------ FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 fair comment Re: Costs of Son-Rise You said: "This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school environments and I am often close to giving up." Just wanted to add that most autistics are not very active in defending other autistics, which is not unusual given many of us tend to live in our own little worlds. I once asked everyone on this forum to post a link to our podcasts on their sites to spread the world to people about ASDs. To date, there is only one member that I knowof who has actually put up a link, and that was Maurice. Others have listened to the podcasts and refferred others to them, but the vast majority just is not interested in doing that sort of thing. Yet if you ask them directly, they do care just as much as we do about autistics who are subjected to therapies they don't want to be subjected to. Administrator ------------------------------------ FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 " so tell me the science. " Most of it is already posted in the " Files " section of this forum. For each document you will need to highlight it and then copy and paste it into a word document to read it well. To find reliable science, you will need to go into " Files " and click on the " Reliable Information " and " Quack Medicine " folders and look at the articles in each and every file therin, all of which I personally have read. In the " Reliable Information " folder: -The " Genetic Origins of Autism " contains all the studies about the mapping of the autistic genome from the theoretical stage to the post- execution. Throughout the course of this research, scientists increasingly rule out any environmental factor - including mercury poisoning - as a cause for autism. Current research is now attempting to map which portions of which genome cause what type and aspect of autism. -The " Criteria for Autism " folder has information from the DSM IV and ICD 10 so that no one can mistake what autism actually is. -The " Autism on the Increase " folder contains research and studies flattening the idea that there is any epidemic, and instead gives a history of the spectrum disorder diagnoses making their way from Europe to the US and the increasing number of diagnoses as these new diagnoses are disseminated to doctors. It also points out that we can expect that once the autistic genome is completely mapped, the DSM IV and ICD 10 will redefine autism and some existing diagnoses will be ruled out through genetic testing while at the same time, the number of spectrum disorders may be added to. -The " Animal Therapy " folder contains information on the one type of therapy that consistently proves to have a positive effect on autistics. -The " Vaccines " folder contains all the myths about vaccines causing autism and categorically demonstrates how the myth has been disproven by privately and publically funded researchers and government researchers as well. The studies have been funded by people wishing to prove a link and wishing to disprove a link. But no matter who funded the study in what part of the world, the results consistently showed no link. The one exception was Wakefield's research, and he has since been discredited. The only other conclusion drawn from all of this aside from the fact that vaccines -this means any component of them as well as thimerosal- do not cause autism is that if there IS a conspiracy to hide the fact that vaccines cause autism, then every government, and every medical organization, dental organization, psychological organization, psychiatric association, vaccine manufacturer, doctor, lawyer, nurse practitioner, nurse, nursing assistant, orderly, and researcher in the entire world must be in on it - an impossibility given that most governments cannot keep a secret if the safety and sanctity of their country depended on it and given that people can be bought and have a predisposition to be gabby and gossippy. Also in the " Reliable Information " folder is research which discount every weak link betwen a " cause " of autism and autism. -In an article entitled " 23,000 Alzheimer's Patients Killed by Psych Drugs " we read up about a drug commonly prescribed to autistics and the effect it has had on those with Alzheimers. You can also read: - " Dore Group goes bust owing $1 million " - " Sylvan centers close abruptly " Given that Son Rise uses many of the same techniques as these centers, we can only hope that it will go belly-up soon. In the " Quack Medicine " folder, you will find the following folders: - " ABA " Within you will learn about the inventor of ABA who called autistic children " Little Monsters " and who believed inflicting pain on autistics was the best way to get them to comply with demands they had no vested interest in complying with. You will learn how -today- there is no accredidation system that a person must go through to call themselves an ABA provider and that even though ABA practitioners employ certain types of therapies used by members of medical organizations, ABA practitioners themselves are not licensed to practice them, and are therefore in many instances practising medicine without a license. You will learn that the creator of ABA was still advocating the same abusive tactics towards autistics that he was when he invented it, and you will see numerous instances of ABA practitioners facing charges for employing these tactics as well as accounts of parents of autistics who subjected their children to treatment with these practitioners. You will also see studies pointing to the fact that the effects of ABA cease to exist once ABA is terminated and the autistics subjected to it revert to their previous state immediately, the end result being that it is suggested that autistics were forced to comply with ABA to avoid the abuse, but, once removed from that abusive environment, they reverted to their most natural and comfortable state. -The " AIT " folder explains how this therapy doesn't work, how it damages the nerve cells temporarily or permanently, and how ultimately it has been shown to have no positive effect on the behavior, mental disposition, or hypo- or hyper- sensitivities of autistics and how it has caused nerve deafness in some. -The " Chelation Therapy " folder discusses how the US FDA does not approve the use of chelation therapy for treating or curing autistics and that the therapy is to be used only in cases of heavy metal toxcicity of the most extreme kind for anyone. In other words, a person who had drinks raw mercury for instance. Subsequent articles discuss the deaths of autistics who have undergone this therapy. Included are the various lawsuits against practitioners who have used the therapy and done harm by it. -The " Drugs thast Don't Work " folder flattens all drugs disproven to cure autism and flattens the companies which promote them. Secretin and taurine were extensively studied and disproven to have any positive effect on autism but may have had negative effects on autism. BioMedComm was ordered to stop selling unapproved drugs and other companies face suits by the governments in their countries of origin for this quackery. -The " Exorcisms " folder tells stories about parents who tried to " treat " and " cure " their children's autism only to have it kill their children. -The " False Autism Detection Methods " is sparse at the moment but contains an interesting file that suggests watching videos of your kids is one way to find autism in them - although many scientists think most people are not qualified to do so. -In the " Gluten Free Diets " folder, we learn of GFCF diets " Proponents of restrictive diets believe that casein, a protein found in dairy products, and gluten, a protein found in many grains, affect brain development and behavior, causing autism in some children. However, there's no scientific evidence that this is true or that restricting these foods improves autism. Furthermore, restrictive diets can result in nutritional deficiencies in growing children. " These nutritional deficiencies include protein malnutrition. Also in this folder the " Leaky gut " theory is thrown out the window. -The " Glyco-Nutrients " folder shows that these sugar pills do not do anything other than have a placebo effect at best. -The " Hyperbaric Chambers " folder has an article which shows that this treatment for autism is unapproved by any government or medical organization for treating autism, namely because it has never been shown to work in any positive way for autistics. -The " Social Skills Therapy " foplder contains an article: " Study Finds Pull-Out Social Skills Therapy Is Ineffective " . - " Thimerosal, Mercury & Autism " folder has numerous articles, all of which tell us repeatedly that " There is not credible evidence that there is any link between vaccines and autism, " Kaye said. " There's really strong, strong evidence against that theory. " -The " Weak Links " folder contains articles from reputable scientists and researchers who point by point take issue with every weak link that lesser practitioners have made between some " trigger " and autism. -You will also find files in the main section discussing practitioners and groups that are profiting off of fear and how they perpetuate rumors to keep the fear mongering going. You will find warnings from government organizations about drugs that are mis-prescribed and over- prescribed. So you see. I HAVE done the research and having read all the articles in these folders as well as publications found online, and in libraries, and from having talked with medical professionals, researchers, etc, I can tell you that all this information is what motivated me to find fault with a lot of your advised and suggested methods, techniques, and recommendations, and I am utterly shocked that you are not aware of any of this research given the influence that you have over so many people. Do you think that all the information I disseminate to the public during conventions and podcasts is just made up and off-the-cuff? To provide people with information which has not been substantiated scientifically is not only irresponsible, it is unethical and immoral and opens one to lawsuits if people act on your advice and suffer for it. For your own good, I would gently suggest that you appraise yourself of every available scrap of information on autism and re-evaluate your means and methods. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Thank you for all that comprehensive information. I have seen most if not all of it before but I would like information on the science of teaching as you have not provided any links that will show me what I should be doing, When I said I had not done any research, I meant that I had not published any papers on my own practice, not that I do not read widely. Re: Costs of Son-Rise "so tell me the science." Most of it is already posted in the "Files" section of this forum. For each document you will need to highlight it and then copy and paste it into a word document to read it well. To find reliable science, you will need to go into "Files" and click on the "Reliable Information" and "Quack Medicine" folders and look at the articles in each and every file therin, all of which I personally have read. In the "Reliable Information" folder: -The "Genetic Origins of Autism" contains all the studies about the mapping of the autistic genome from the theoretical stage to the post- execution. Throughout the course of this research, scientists increasingly rule out any environmental factor - including mercury poisoning - as a cause for autism. Current research is now attempting to map which portions of which genome cause what type and aspect of autism. -The "Criteria for Autism" folder has information from the DSM IV and ICD 10 so that no one can mistake what autism actually is. -The "Autism on the Increase" folder contains research and studies flattening the idea that there is any epidemic, and instead gives a history of the spectrum disorder diagnoses making their way from Europe to the US and the increasing number of diagnoses as these new diagnoses are disseminated to doctors. It also points out that we can expect that once the autistic genome is completely mapped, the DSM IV and ICD 10 will redefine autism and some existing diagnoses will be ruled out through genetic testing while at the same time, the number of spectrum disorders may be added to. -The "Animal Therapy" folder contains information on the one type of therapy that consistently proves to have a positive effect on autistics. -The "Vaccines" folder contains all the myths about vaccines causing autism and categorically demonstrates how the myth has been disproven by privately and publically funded researchers and government researchers as well. The studies have been funded by people wishing to prove a link and wishing to disprove a link. But no matter who funded the study in what part of the world, the results consistently showed no link. The one exception was Wakefield's research, and he has since been discredited. The only other conclusion drawn from all of this aside from the fact that vaccines -this means any component of them as well as thimerosal- do not cause autism is that if there IS a conspiracy to hide the fact that vaccines cause autism, then every government, and every medical organization, dental organization, psychological organization, psychiatric association, vaccine manufacturer, doctor, lawyer, nurse practitioner, nurse, nursing assistant, orderly, and researcher in the entire world must be in on it - an impossibility given that most governments cannot keep a secret if the safety and sanctity of their country depended on it and given that people can be bought and have a predisposition to be gabby and gossippy. Also in the "Reliable Information" folder is research which discount every weak link betwen a "cause" of autism and autism. -In an article entitled "23,000 Alzheimer's Patients Killed by Psych Drugs" we read up about a drug commonly prescribed to autistics and the effect it has had on those with Alzheimers. You can also read: -"Dore Group goes bust owing $1 million" -"Sylvan centers close abruptly" Given that Son Rise uses many of the same techniques as these centers, we can only hope that it will go belly-up soon. In the "Quack Medicine" folder, you will find the following folders: -"ABA" Within you will learn about the inventor of ABA who called autistic children "Little Monsters" and who believed inflicting pain on autistics was the best way to get them to comply with demands they had no vested interest in complying with. You will learn how -today- there is no accredidation system that a person must go through to call themselves an ABA provider and that even though ABA practitioners employ certain types of therapies used by members of medical organizations, ABA practitioners themselves are not licensed to practice them, and are therefore in many instances practising medicine without a license. You will learn that the creator of ABA was still advocating the same abusive tactics towards autistics that he was when he invented it, and you will see numerous instances of ABA practitioners facing charges for employing these tactics as well as accounts of parents of autistics who subjected their children to treatment with these practitioners. You will also see studies pointing to the fact that the effects of ABA cease to exist once ABA is terminated and the autistics subjected to it revert to their previous state immediately, the end result being that it is suggested that autistics were forced to comply with ABA to avoid the abuse, but, once removed from that abusive environment, they reverted to their most natural and comfortable state. -The "AIT" folder explains how this therapy doesn't work, how it damages the nerve cells temporarily or permanently, and how ultimately it has been shown to have no positive effect on the behavior, mental disposition, or hypo- or hyper- sensitivities of autistics and how it has caused nerve deafness in some. -The "Chelation Therapy" folder discusses how the US FDA does not approve the use of chelation therapy for treating or curing autistics and that the therapy is to be used only in cases of heavy metal toxcicity of the most extreme kind for anyone. In other words, a person who had drinks raw mercury for instance. Subsequent articles discuss the deaths of autistics who have undergone this therapy. Included are the various lawsuits against practitioners who have used the therapy and done harm by it. -The "Drugs thast Don't Work" folder flattens all drugs disproven to cure autism and flattens the companies which promote them. Secretin and taurine were extensively studied and disproven to have any positive effect on autism but may have had negative effects on autism. BioMedComm was ordered to stop selling unapproved drugs and other companies face suits by the governments in their countries of origin for this quackery. -The "Exorcisms" folder tells stories about parents who tried to "treat" and "cure" their children's autism only to have it kill their children. -The "False Autism Detection Methods" is sparse at the moment but contains an interesting file that suggests watching videos of your kids is one way to find autism in them - although many scientists think most people are not qualified to do so. -In the "Gluten Free Diets" folder, we learn of GFCF diets "Proponents of restrictive diets believe that casein, a protein found in dairy products, and gluten, a protein found in many grains, affect brain development and behavior, causing autism in some children. However, there's no scientific evidence that this is true or that restricting these foods improves autism. Furthermore, restrictive diets can result in nutritional deficiencies in growing children." These nutritional deficiencies include protein malnutrition. Also in this folder the "Leaky gut" theory is thrown out the window. -The "Glyco-Nutrients" folder shows that these sugar pills do not do anything other than have a placebo effect at best. -The "Hyperbaric Chambers" folder has an article which shows that this treatment for autism is unapproved by any government or medical organization for treating autism, namely because it has never been shown to work in any positive way for autistics. -The "Social Skills Therapy" foplder contains an article: "Study Finds Pull-Out Social Skills Therapy Is Ineffective". -"Thimerosal, Mercury & Autism" folder has numerous articles, all of which tell us repeatedly that "There is not credible evidence that there is any link between vaccines and autism," Kaye said. "There's really strong, strong evidence against that theory." -The "Weak Links" folder contains articles from reputable scientists and researchers who point by point take issue with every weak link that lesser practitioners have made between some "trigger" and autism. -You will also find files in the main section discussing practitioners and groups that are profiting off of fear and how they perpetuate rumors to keep the fear mongering going. You will find warnings from government organizations about drugs that are mis-prescribed and over- prescribed. So you see. I HAVE done the research and having read all the articles in these folders as well as publications found online, and in libraries, and from having talked with medical professionals, researchers, etc, I can tell you that all this information is what motivated me to find fault with a lot of your advised and suggested methods, techniques, and recommendations, and I am utterly shocked that you are not aware of any of this research given the influence that you have over so many people. Do you think that all the information I disseminate to the public during conventions and podcasts is just made up and off-the-cuff? To provide people with information which has not been substantiated scientifically is not only irresponsible, it is unethical and immoral and opens one to lawsuits if people act on your advice and suffer for it. For your own good, I would gently suggest that you appraise yourself of every available scrap of information on autism and re-evaluate your means and methods. Administrator ------------------------------------ FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 " I have seen most if not all of it before but I would like information on the science of teaching as you have not provided any links that will show me what I should be doing. " Stadard fare educational training in the US consists of studies in one's major (area of interest) plus a background in pedagogy, psychology, educational psychology, educational measurememnt, and special education with observations, clinical experiences, and student teaching being mandatory requirements for a degree. Those who specifically teach autistics will have taken many courses in the diagnosis, presentation, manifestation and pedagogical methods of autism. This information is widely available on the net and there are also publications available for perusal or purchase in any college bookstore. Books and periodicals are available in most teacher's college's libraries as well as university libraries. I was trained as a teacher. Though not trained specifically to deal with autistics, much of the information I have gotten about teaching autistics has been gotten off the net, through publications that can be found in college bookstores and libraries, through counsulting with trained professionals in the area of autism (including teachers, educational assistants, etc.), and by availing myself of all knowledge of information available on the current origins, incidence and treatment methods of autism. Research on the current research on origins, incidence and treatment have direct relevance to how a student is taught and the design and implementation of lesson plans. In short, all teaching methods as they apply to autistic children are based upon the latest research and because the research is progressive, those who teach autistics may best prepare themselves by keeping up with the latest research. Understanding the psychology and physiology of those on the spectrum increases the ability and flexibility of teachers when teaching and making preparations to teach. In the US, many districts require that teachers continually take seminars to keep themselves appraised of the latest science and teaching methods and districts, knowing full well that these courses are merely introductory, expect teachers to keep up with the latest research on their own. That many teachers fail to do this and that many teachers fail students is well-known. Yet teachers must be as persistent as doctors in studying the latest research. As a teacher you ought to know through your studies where this information can be found. My suggestion would be to start with consulting the latest edition of the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature and ask your administrators where supplemental information and courses on autism can be found. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 > Ergo this topic is now ended for the benefit of forum members who > come here to talk about all issues and are refraining from doing so > do to the current animosity. Sorry, I just posted my two cents but will refrain from any futher viewpoints as of now. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 " I once asked everyone on this forum to post a link to our podcasts on their sites to spread the world to people about ASDs. To date, there is only one member that I knowof who has actually put up a link, and that was Maurice. " Hello - okay I don't have a site of my own, but I did put up the links to the podcasts on another forum I belong to and I took along the MIC album to a parent/carer support group trying to get parents carers interested - believe me it can be extrememly infuriating getting parents interested enough to actually do something :-( For that matter one of the parents of the group I belong to has set up a youth group for children with High Functioning autism, so far only my son and hers has gone :-( just makes me think most parents just don't care and there is'nt much around here for children with High Functioning Autism. > > You said: > > " This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am > given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to > keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school > environments and I am often close to giving up. " > > Just wanted to add that most autistics are not very active in > defending other autistics, which is not unusual given many of us tend > to live in our own little worlds. I once asked everyone on this forum > to post a link to our podcasts on their sites to spread the world to > people about ASDs. To date, there is only one member that I knowof > who has actually put up a link, and that was Maurice. > > Others have listened to the podcasts and refferred others to them, > but the vast majority just is not interested in doing that sort of > thing. Yet if you ask them directly, they do care just as much as we > do about autistics who are subjected to therapies they don't want to > be subjected to. > > > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 wrote: " Hello - okay I don't have a site of my own, but I did put up the links to the podcasts on another forum I belong to and I took along the MIC album to a parent/carer support group trying to get parents carers interested - believe me it can be extrememly infuriating getting parents interested enough to actually do something :-( " Thank you for your support, . :-) Sorry that you also go through the frustrations of trying to get parents interested enough to actually do something positive for their children. More and more parents these days are unwilling to put themselves out for their children -- with and without a diagnosis -- and this is a major reason why we see so many delinquents these days. :-( wrote: " For that matter one of the parents of the group I belong to has set up a youth group for children with High Functioning autism, so far only my son and hers has gone :-( just makes me think most parents just don't care and there isn't much around here for children with High Functioning Autism. " I hear you on the point that there aren't too many appropriate activities for children with HFA (or for AS for that matter). :-( On the plus side, at least your son and the other woman's son know that they have parents who care about their well being and who are willing to put effort into making their lives more manageable in an increasingly hostile world. Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 " Hello - okay I don't have a site of my own, but I did put up the links to the podcasts on another forum I belong to and I took along the MIC album to a parent/carer support group trying to get parents carers interested - believe me it can be extrememly infuriating getting parents interested enough to actually do something :-( " Ah yes. I was forgetting about you . Sorry about that. (And I ought to add here that deserves certain accolades for his patronage, which shall remain undescribed. too.) " For that matter one of the parents of the group I belong to has set up a youth group for children with High Functioning autism, so far only my son and hers has gone :-( just makes me think most parents just don't care and there is'nt much around here for children with High Functioning Autism. " They don't care. The truth is, if it is a choice between finding a " treatment " and really giving their child what they need, if it looks like the treatment is socially acceptable, they will go for that over what their child might truly benefit from. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Someone posted links in several of the autism groups on Facebook. That's how I found the podcast.Do you have it in iTunes, yet? So far, I only see one other than mine when I search for Asperger's Syndrome (and that other one has awful sound quality). -Jaden " I once asked everyone on this forum to post a link to our podcasts on their sites to spread the world to people about ASDs. To date, there is only one member that I knowof who has actually put up a link, and that was Maurice. " Hello - okay I don't have a site of my own, but I did put up the links to the podcasts on another forum I belong to and I took along the MIC album to a parent/carer support group trying to get parents carers interested - believe me it can be extrememly infuriating getting parents interested enough to actually do something :-( For that matter one of the parents of the group I belong to has set up a youth group for children with High Functioning autism, so far only my son and hers has gone :-( just makes me think most parents just don't care and there is'nt much around here for children with High Functioning Autism. > > You said: > > " This is actually the only place in real life or on the net that I am > given grief for what I do. I would have hoped for encouragement to > keep going because it is as hard as all hell to work in school > environments and I am often close to giving up. " > > Just wanted to add that most autistics are not very active in > defending other autistics, which is not unusual given many of us tend > to live in our own little worlds. I once asked everyone on this forum > to post a link to our podcasts on their sites to spread the world to > people about ASDs. To date, there is only one member that I knowof > who has actually put up a link, and that was Maurice. > > Others have listened to the podcasts and refferred others to them, > but the vast majority just is not interested in doing that sort of > thing. Yet if you ask them directly, they do care just as much as we > do about autistics who are subjected to therapies they don't want to > be subjected to. > > > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 " Someone posted links in several of the autism groups on Facebook. That's how I found the podcast. " Do you have it in iTunes, yet? So far, I only see one other than mine when I search for Asperger's Syndrome (and that other one has awful sound quality). " Our " Midnight In Chicago Podcast " is there as well as our " Midnight in Chicago " album, our " Countdown to Midnight " Album, and Elyse's " Quietudes CD. " Our albums are sold the world over in all online stores, and the podcasts are heard on many different venues around the world. We also have ringtones from the albums out there. 20% of the sales of all of our products, including the art cards and prints go to autism organizations. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Hit me up privately about your CDs. I wanted to discuss something about it with you.On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:58 PM, environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: --- In FAMSecretSociety , " Jaden " Our albums are sold the world over in all online stores, and the podcasts are heard on many different venues around the world. We also have ringtones from the albums out there. 20% of the sales of all of our products, including the art cards and prints go to autism organizations. Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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