Re: Re: (Wired) Genetic tests of athlethic prowess- for babies...

[Guest guest]

That movie has always terrified me. I cry every time I see it. On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 4:17 PM, environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

" Anyone ever see Gattica? "

I have. And I predict that is where we are heading.

Administrator

-- -Jade http://castcast.podbean.com

[Guest guest]

I probably should clarify: I meant arm strength, not core strength. There is a saying among runners that you (Strict) may remember: " Running is a mental sport; We're all crazy. " I still can not fathom why on Earth (while we are at it, why not the multiverse?) I signed up for cross country three years straight.

I have not heard about Gattica. Do you mean Galactica?

[Guest guest]

about when they are told they are "too stupid" to do a certain job or that > they will only be able to get menial jobs and manual labor? That's not going > to go over at all well. That already happens. It is called career counselling. Fortunately I did not get any or I would not have this successful career. As for genetic prediction of sporting ability, it is only taking something that already happens in many parts of the world further. Many countries have talent scouting programs that scan children and young people for specific abilities. Some deviation is ok in these programs, but they are very much looking for types. I don't see a problem unless as others have said, the person does not have the desire to succeed in this area or when children are taken from families and hothoused into athletic machines.

Re: (Wired) Genetic tests of athlethic prowess- for babies...

For various reasons, I see this whole thing being even more dangerous, perhaps, than horoscopes being relied upon.

Here's the curious thing: while they're not always the most commonly visible ones, statistically, the body shape/strength distribution isn't always what you'd think would be the case for runners. Also, what's commonly misunderstood is the thought that upper body strength doesn't play into it. For cross country (at least, in my experience, for running the local mountain trails) upper body strength (more importantly, the core) is far more important than you'd think, even more important than for playing soccer (US name of AKA "football" everywhere else). People staying only on the road for running seem to have more of an advantage with having the legs be ideal, but again, the upper body is not completely unimportant for running: if you don't believe this, do a very simple test, where you run outside with standard swinging arm motion, and then try doing the same speed with keeping your arms stationary, especially straight down. You'll observe that it is much harder to run with your arms straight down or stationary, and this is because arm swing during running provides a combination of benefits of balancing the body overall during the gait, combined with conservation of motion.

Now, someone that has a massive upper body and a puny lower body is likely to be at a distinct disadvantage, because the heart will be pumping blood and oxygen to a lot of muscle mass that's not being fully utilized, and that'll be an overall drain on efficiency that can't be made up, regardless of whether they're a sprinter or a long distance runner, it'll affect them.

The person you describe, Zoe, sounds closer to the body type of several of my siblings: well-suited to slow, but hefty muscle output, for a relatively long time, which would make them ideally suited to being a furniture mover ( I am most definitely not ideally suited to that). They'd probably do much better off doing wrestling as a sport, as long as they're balanced overall. I'm personally best-suited to fairly long distance running, and I do it with a backpack on to be mostly self-sufficient with water: considering I'm well over the weight I should be right now, I know that if I were at my proper weight, I can easily maintain (if at the shape I've been in, in the past) speed for several hours with a 40 pound pack. Mind you, I'm not fast, but faster than walking: I'll never be a competitive runner for the half or full marathon, due to a combination of age and other factors, and I'm not worried about that But, I'm in sufficient condition I could run a half-marathon once a week without a problem, even without doing the typical training program. My observation is that there are very few people that'd be completely unable to complete a half marathon, if they aren't in horrible shape and they have the mental strength to continue on, and know how to pace themselves at something sustainable. That's not to say that many would ever have much hope for being competitive A full marathon, however, while only being twice as long, requires easily 4 times as much preparation for conditioning to achieve, because the half marathon is about the distance that can be run with the carbohydrates that a human body can hold in store: for a full marathon, if you tried to run primarily on carbohydrates (anaerobic) you'd bonk by the half way mark. "Bonking" is the name of what happens to a person when they run out of carbs, and their body and mind do their best to convince them to stop, because it just doesn't feel like it At that point, it becomes largely a case of mind-over-muscle, and you're stuck having to get by on almost entirely what you've achieved for aerobic conditioning, because your heart rate to achieve anything that required carbs in addition to oxygen goes way up at the same time your speed goes down, and there's a sharp upward inflection point at your aerobic heart rates, which varies by age and condition.

Oh, yes: I got slightly derailed there... different sports take different personalities to achieve in, regardless of natural physiological advantages, and we currently have no clue how to even judge such things from genetics, and I'd wager we never will have that much ability to decipher that based on genetics alone.

>

> No, it isn't a good idea. For one thing, suppose the child doesn't WANT to > be an athlete? When I was in high school, there were a few athletes who really > weren't into it, but did it because their parents pushed them into it. Just > think how bad that would be if someone's parents had a DNA test that said they > would make a great football player, but they didn't want to do it? On the > other hand, what about someone whose test said they should be perfect for a > sport, but eventually don't make a team, or the big leagues, because they don't > have the coordination or ability to work as a team member, perhaps because > they have been told they are better than everyone else for so long?

> > It doesn't matter so much now when it is about physical things because > people can generally eyeball this kind of thing. Huge strapping guy would make a > better football player than the small sickly guy. That kind of "discrimination" > is seen as natural and reasonable. But what happens when this begins to be > applied to mental skills? Its OK to tell people they stink at sports, but what > about when they are told they are "too stupid" to do a certain job or that > they will only be able to get menial jobs and manual labor? That's not going > to go over at all well. > > > > >

> > Does anyone else also think this might not be the best of ideas? A strong > counterpoint is one cross country runner I know that is simply not made for > cross country. His legs are short, his strength is more in the upper body than > most runners, and his muscles are not endurance muscles, but he does have one > attribute that is key: His spirit is very competitive, and he can take pain > in large amounts.

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>

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[Guest guest]

Hi;

Gattaca was an inspiring and thought provoking movie!

renaissanzelady

Zoe wrote: " ... <snip> ... I have not heard about Gattica. Do you mean Galactica? ... <snip> ... "Oh no, Zoe, we mean GATTACA. You absolutely HAVE to rent the DVD, my friend. LINK: http://www.imdb. com/title/ tt0119177/

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