Re: Too much to swallow

[Guest guest]

Erm... Which technique do you refer to? Often it's simply just nuking the entire system's drives, in order to prevent rootkits from surviving, and I think you may mean sysadmins.

Cub, and I have a theory that we are currently researching and

writing up in the hopes that medical researchers will pick up the ball

and run with it. It began when Cub linked the possibility of treating

MG the same way computer programmers would treat a Trojan virus that

could not be eliminated from a computer.

..

[Guest guest]

Zoe wrote: " Erm... Which technique do you refer to? Often it's simply

just nuking the entire system's drives, in order to prevent rootkits

from surviving, and I think you may mean sysadmins. "

Errrrr, Zoe ... if you 'nuke the entire system's drives' in a human

being, they die.

Cub says that if nuking the entire system's drives is the only way to

purge a Trojan and this is not an acceptable option, then you have

other options.

Raven

[Guest guest]

" I firmly believe that our minds process things faster than the

average mind and it makes others appear slow to us. Thus we get

impatient waiting for them to " see " things the right way. And we

don't often handle impatience well as AS individuals. I know I

don't. ;-) "

I suppose my problem sometimes is that I have told I am " smart " but

then the same people who tell me I am smart don't want to believe

anything I say. For me personally, if it's evident that someone else is

smarter than me, then I naturally want to learn from them, and I don't

care how " stupid " I appear to them.

Sometimes I wish other people could behave the same way that I do.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

On Dec 17, 2008, at 12:07 AM 12/17/08, environmental1st2003 wrote:

>

>

> " I firmly believe that our minds process things faster than the

> average mind and it makes others appear slow to us. Thus we get

> impatient waiting for them to " see " things the right way. And we

> don't often handle impatience well as AS individuals. I know I

> don't. ;-) "

>

> I suppose my problem sometimes is that I have told I am " smart " but

> then the same people who tell me I am smart don't want to believe

> anything I say. For me personally, if it's evident that someone

> else is

> smarter than me, then I naturally want to learn from them, and I don't

> care how " stupid " I appear to them.

Can't help you there - that happens to anybody that people label as

" smart " AS or not. However as I stated elsewhere it can be overcome

with time and effort.

> Sometimes I wish other people could behave the same way that I do.

Unfortunately that's not going to happen for anyone who desires it.

We're all individuals at the core regardless of our mental status and

while we all put up some commonality for the purposes of existing

together it almost never goes deeper than a certain point. Or so

I've observed anyway.

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote: " ... <snip> ... Can't help you there - that happens to

anybody that people label as " smart " AS or not. However as I stated

elsewhere it can be overcome with time and effort ... <snip> ... "

<Raven teases Mike>

But ... but ... but ... I don't WANT to overcome being smart! ;-)

Raven

[Guest guest]

> Mike wrote: " ... <snip> ... Can't help you there - that happens to

> anybody that people label as " smart " AS or not. However as I stated

> elsewhere it can be overcome with time and effort ... <snip> ... "

>

> <Raven teases Mike>

>

> But ... but ... but ... I don't WANT to overcome being smart! ;-)

*fires a marshmallow gun at Raven*

_Not_ what I meant. ;-P

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

I meant to ask which other method he referred to. In this case it would be a little more than a headache to " wipe all drives " . The usual response on many enterprise and professional systems is to do a full hard delete and reimage, but as Cub said other ways are possible in more fragile circumstances. I am interested in his idea.

I remember dreaming in my earlier years about a machine that would scan someone into a computer, manipulate the 'image', and then reconstruct that person.

..

[Guest guest]

> I meant to ask which other method he referred to. In this case it

> would be a little more than a headache to " wipe all drives " . The

> usual response on many enterprise and professional systems is to do

> a full hard delete and reimage, but as Cub said other ways are

> possible in more fragile circumstances. I am interested in his idea.

Considering we as human beings don't understand the system in its

entirety it would be entirely too easy to destroy something subtle

without even noticing.

> I remember dreaming in my earlier years about a machine that would

> scan someone into a computer, manipulate the 'image', and then

> reconstruct that person.

The technology is moving towards some recording capability:

http://www.physorg.com/news148193433.html

Though I'm of the opinion that we are more than just molecules and

chemical/electrical impulses.

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

We do have software so to speak.

..

[Guest guest]

For me personally, if it's evident that someone else is

> smarter than me, then I naturally want to learn from them, and I

don't

> care how " stupid " I appear to them.

>

> Sometimes I wish other people could behave the same way that I do.

>

>

> Administrator

>

too true

[Guest guest]

> We do have software so to speak.

True enough but I still steadfastly believe that we are more than the

sum of our parts. If not...

Then the universe is far too small and ordinary for me. ;-)

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

" We're all individuals at the core regardless of our mental status and

while we all put up some commonality for the purposes of existing

together it almost never goes deeper than a certain point. "

I thik what you are saying is true, but I think it is senseless that

people are willing to jettison common sense and logic for selfish and

self-destructive reasons. In conversations, arrogating oneself to a

position of superiority when their argumentations have no basis in fact

merely makes them look foolish. But corporations have fallen,

relationships have failed, governments have been overthrown on the

basis of people doing things without thinking of the consequences or

listening to those who advised them against going ahead with their

plans.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:15 PM 12/17/08, environmental1st2003 wrote:

>

>

> " We're all individuals at the core regardless of our mental status and

> while we all put up some commonality for the purposes of existing

> together it almost never goes deeper than a certain point. "

>

> I thik what you are saying is true, but I think it is senseless that

> people are willing to jettison common sense and logic for selfish and

> self-destructive reasons. In conversations, arrogating oneself to a

> position of superiority when their argumentations have no basis in

> fact

> merely makes them look foolish. But corporations have fallen,

> relationships have failed, governments have been overthrown on the

> basis of people doing things without thinking of the consequences or

> listening to those who advised them against going ahead with their

> plans.

All true.

Unfortunately we're all too frail and imperfect beings and we do

error in our choices. And there is nothing anyone can do to change

that no matter how much we might want to.

I'm not saying we can't improve just that we will never be perfect in

this universe.

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

Zoe wrote: " I meant to ask which other method he referred to. In this

case it would be a little more than a headache to " wipe all drives " .

The usual response on many enterprise and professional systems is to

do a full hard delete and reimage, but as Cub said other ways are

possible in more fragile circumstances. I am interested in his idea. "

I'll have to ask him to dictate his response to you, Zoe. The next

few days are impossible for that as he's in hospital as an out-

patient for the IVIg transfusions but once he's feeling better, I

will get him to do this and I'll email you with his answer.

Zoe wrote: " I remember dreaming in my earlier years about a machine

that would scan someone into a computer, manipulate the 'image', and

then reconstruct that person. "

Now THAT is the sort of idea that totally impresses me because it

requires imagination, creativity, forethought and more.

<Raven applauds Zoe>

Raven

[Guest guest]

Zoe wrote: We do have software so to speak.

Raven responded: And drives. :-D

[Guest guest]

Not to mention plenty of logic errors.

Zoe wrote: We do have software so to speak.

Raven responded: And drives. :-D

.

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike:

I also believe that we are more than the sum of our parts.

renaissanzelady> We do have software so to speak. :PTrue enough but I still steadfastly believe that we are more than the sum of our parts. If not...Then the universe is far too small and ordinary for me. ;-)--MikeIn the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along the way.

Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now!

[Guest guest]

I think that what really matters is what one would could the soul, essentially the software.

..

[Guest guest]

Of course. We are the software. Our brains the hardware. We can understand and manipulate both.

To: FAMSecretSociety Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:46:40 PMSubject: Re: Re: Too much to swallow

> We do have software so to speak. :PTrue enough but I still steadfastly believe that we are more than the sum of our parts. If not...Then the universe is far too small and ordinary for me. ;-)--MikeIn the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along the way.

[Guest guest]

jb bss wrote: " Of course. We are the software. Our brains the

hardware.  We can understand and manipulate both. "

And the parenting we did or did not receive in childhood is the

operating system that was uploaded to our hard drive.

Life's experiences are the upgrades for the operating system.

Needless to say, I could go on but it would begin to border on silly to

do so. LOL!

Raven

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Particpating or not participating;

1. The True Crime Writer, Anne Rule, wrote:

in a functional family, one person may need to be 'carried' by others for a while, then things change and that person might help 'carry' someone else, whereas in certain dysfunctional families, the same person needs to be 'carried' all the time.

2. How I see this concept:

a) a 'family' can be a biological or kinfolk-type of family, or a community; (internet forum, ideological, geographical, metaphysical etc.)

Sometimes in life we give (knowledge, insight, wisdom, opinions) and sometimes we receive. Hopefully there is a balance over time. If there were NOT a balance between recieving and giving, then the givers become worn out. (and we miss out on the insights the 'receivers' might have given us.)

c) Some may never be able to 'give' to a group like this. However those who are able but never contribute may be like the person from the Biblical Parable who "buried his talent."

3. (sorry I don't know in which book Anne Rule presented concept #1; since having heart surgery 2 years ago, my memory is somewhat less, I still know a lot of trivia; am sort of like a computer which has a glitch accessing stored data)

renaissanzelady

-- On Thu, 12/11/08, environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

"Please don't 'pack it in', there may be many who are 'lurkers', following the discusions but not speaking up (posting)."

Yes, I am aware of that, but the conversations here would be much more invigorating if the lurkers spoke up and participated, or introduced topics of their own.

..

Instant message from any web browser! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> " The other thing I have found is that most humans only like

> conversations which reinforce their opinions. Faced with opposition,

> the majority will fly into abuse in an attempt to suppress

difference. "

Yes. and often it takes the form of saying they don't understand.

As soon as you say anything that is unfamiliar to them, they they

blame the way the message is expressed. Only custom-led ideas they

have heard many times before, can possibly be expressed well + be

worth understanding. Unless what you say is what they want to hear,

then deliberate not understanding is a relief to their minds, it gets

rid of the different idea. It reassures them they are right without

having to scrutinise logically the evidence for any other view.

[Guest guest]

" Yes. and often it takes the form of saying they don't understand. "

Okay, what if someone genuinely did not undertstand, would it be

therefore wrong for them to say they don't understand? Sometimes I

don't understand things and I admit such and often do want to

understand, to learn - I don't see this as wrong. Or maybe I am

misunderstanding what you are saying here? Do you mean someone

pretending that they don't understand when they actually do?

I have come across people who seem stuck in ignorance and unwilling

to understand, they don't even try, they are stubbornly stuck in

their own beliefs and will not contemplate any others. I guess many

of us have seen such, even when presented with facts some will still

not budge from contradictory views that go agaisnt the facts.

> >

> >

> > " The other thing I have found is that most humans only like

> > conversations which reinforce their opinions. Faced with

opposition,

> > the majority will fly into abuse in an attempt to suppress

> difference. "

>

> Yes. and often it takes the form of saying they don't understand.

>

> As soon as you say anything that is unfamiliar to them, they they

> blame the way the message is expressed. Only custom-led ideas they

> have heard many times before, can possibly be expressed well + be

> worth understanding. Unless what you say is what they want to hear,

> then deliberate not understanding is a relief to their minds, it

gets

> rid of the different idea. It reassures them they are right without

> having to scrutinise logically the evidence for any other view.

>

[Guest guest]

> " Yes. and often it takes the form of saying they don't understand. "

>

> Okay, what if someone genuinely did not undertstand, would it be

> therefore wrong for them to say they don't understand? Sometimes I

> don't understand things and I admit such and often do want to

> understand, to learn - I don't see this as wrong. Or maybe I am

> misunderstanding what you are saying here? Do you mean someone

> pretending that they don't understand when they actually do?

>

> I have come across people who seem stuck in ignorance and unwilling

> to understand, they don't even try, they are stubbornly stuck in

> their own beliefs and will not contemplate any others. I guess many

> of us have seen such, even when presented with facts some will still

> not budge from contradictory views that go agaisnt the facts.

I'm betting that this hit belongs to the " pride " button again.

Sometimes the other person doesn't want to admit they're wrong for

fear of being thought less of.

The other thing that usually happens is that they have another active

source of information that for some reason in the past has been

established as " a reliable source " and is either someone they look up

to and/or is actively feeding them bad information because of _their_

pride button.

What happens is you become engaged in a back-forth game of

" Telephone " . (I call it " Purple Monkey Telephone " because that's

often how absurd it becomes.)

Once that happens the person becomes confused and in the search for

stability stick to what they know. And what they " know " is _not_ you.

The trick with these people is to build up " reliability " in their

eyes. That takes a lot of time usually. (A _LOT_ of time.)

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

renaissanzelady wrote: " ... <snip> ... in a functional family, one

person may need to be 'carried' by others for a while, then things

change and that person might help 'carry' someone else, whereas in

certain dysfunctional families, the same person needs to be 'carried'

all the time ... <snip> ... "

That is correct. That being said, oftentimes it is an extremely small

core of individuals who carry the larger number of members in the FAM

forums and this is what causes to consider closing down said

forums.

Raven