Re: On Being Right WAS: 'People Whisperers

[Guest guest]

Great... Okay guys, what is the best way to apologize to Raven? On a bent knee, or perhaps with chocolates?

[Guest guest]

> Great... Okay guys, what is the best way to apologize to Raven? On

> a bent knee, or perhaps with chocolates?

???

Okay...I missed something here...

Or where you speaking rhetorically?

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

> Mike wrote: " ... <snip> ... It's incredibly hard not to

> spout " You're don't know what the *bleep!* you're talking about! " to

> people sometimes but I've gotten the hang of it over the years

> finally ... <snip> ... "

>

> What I find harder yet is when, a year or so later, those same people

> come back to me and say, " Oh, I guess you *were* right. I should

> have listened. "

Been there, done that, have a closet full of t-shirts.

> But they never apologize for the abysmal way they treated me when

> they were disagreeing with me and trying to make me look stupid or

> incompetent or overly dramatic at the time.

Nope. They never do.

> No, it's just easier for them to say, " Just let the past stay in the

> past. What matters if that I agree with you now. "

>

> Now, what matters is that you agree with me now based on the fact

> that I was right and that you admit to others that you were wrong for

> making my life miserable in the past when I was right and you were

> wrong.

Good points. The thing I've found is that if the people involved

have any intelligence involved they finally learn to listen to you

over time. In some ways it's almost like a radiation dosage -

eventually they realize that the " clue " source is the person they've

been making miserable.

Some of though never learn and they tend to take it for granted.

Even close family members do that.

> YOU in this context refers to the unnamed person, not to anyone in

> particular in this or any other forum.

Indeed.

--

Mike

In the end the journey only matters if you've helped someone along

the way.

[Guest guest]

Zoe wrote: " Great... Okay guys, what is the best way to apologize to

Raven? On a bent knee, or perhaps with chocolates? "

I'm impossible, Zoe. ;-)

That being said, the best way to apologize is to say, " I wasn't able

to see what you knew was true back then. I'm sorry for what I said

in the past. "

Pretty simple but no one ever seems to take that step of admitting

they were mistaken. It's as if they expect that I will hold a grudge

and say something stupid like, " I don't accept your apology. I want

my pound of flesh. "

Except I never want a pound of flesh. I never want revenge.

What I want is gentleness and kindness.

The world is woefully low on gentleness and kindness.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Zoe asked: " Great... Okay guys, what is the best way to apologize to

Raven? On a bent knee, or perhaps with chocolates?

Mike responded: " ??? Okay ... I missed something here ... Or where

you speaking rhetorically? "

Zoe was just getting ready for the day when she " might " have to

apologize for something we disagreed on in the present or in the past.

Not wanting to offend me in the future, Zoe is launching a pre-emptive

strike with personal education. :-D

You know, you just can't help but love that Zoe. :-)

Raven

[Guest guest]

Okay, if there are chocolates going spare I'll take them ;-)

" Great... Okay guys, what is the best way to apologize

to

> Raven? On a bent knee, or perhaps with chocolates? "

>

> I'm impossible, Zoe. ;-)

>

> That being said, the best way to apologize is to say, " I wasn't

able

> to see what you knew was true back then. I'm sorry for what I said

> in the past. "

>

> Pretty simple but no one ever seems to take that step of admitting

> they were mistaken. It's as if they expect that I will hold a

grudge

> and say something stupid like, " I don't accept your apology. I

want

> my pound of flesh. "

>

> Except I never want a pound of flesh. I never want revenge.

>

> What I want is gentleness and kindness.

>

> The world is woefully low on gentleness and kindness.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

wrote: " Okay, if there are chocolates going spare I'll take them. "

OK, the chocolates are to be redirected to then. LOL!

Raven

[Guest guest]

Hi Raven and Mike:

I have been on both sides of the situation at different times;

1. When I have been the one who did not agree or understand, and later came to the conclusion the person was right, I have tried to contact them and let them know.

2. I have also given an opinion which some one disagreed with, then later they either came up with the idea as if it were there own or gave a brief; 'by the way you were right about...' Possibly the statement " I guess you were right" is as close to an apology as some people are willing to give, and they either forget the greif they put us through or minimize it in their own minds.

3. A third varation is where someone points something out to me that I had not thought of, and I modify my views to agree with their point, then later they take the opposite view, the one I HAD held, as if our previous discussion never happened.

When I am aware of this happening I say 'but what about....'

A RECENT OCCURANCE:

A colleague and I go out occassionally and deliver printed advertizing materials.

In the spring, I made a critical remark about an unkempt property, She said 'maybe the residents are too busy working 2 or 3 jobs to survive, and don't have time to tidy their yard.'

I saw her point, said, 'that is a very good point, I never thought of that!'

This fall, we were out in a different area, which she had never been to before, and she made a critical remark about some of the homes/yards.

I reminded her of our discussion in the spring, where we had been, what I had said, what she had said.

Her reply was total silence, NOT "oh I'd forgotten' not 'oh you might be right'. just silence....

I went on to say that some people are free thinkers and may enjoy this type of setting, IF my husband and I divorced, i would't be able to afford to keep our house, so I would try and rent a 'mews house' in one of our city's oldest districts, rather than an appartment in a high rise. (a mews house is accessed from a back alley, not a street.)

Then she understood and said 'oh, you mean some people are eccentrics." I sad "YES!"

I suppose this is rather amusing.

renaissanzelady " ... <snip> ... It's incredibly hard not to spout "You're don't know what the *bleep!* you're talking about!" to people sometimes but I've gotten the hang of it over the years finally ... <snip> ... "What I find harder yet is when, a year or so later, those same people come back to me and say, "Oh, I guess you *were* right. I should have listened." But they never apologize for the abysmal way they treated me when they were disagreeing with me and trying to make me look stupid or incompetent or overly dramatic at the time.Raven

Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Guest guest]

renaissanzelady wrote: " ... <snip> ... Then she understood and

said 'oh, you mean some people are eccentrics. " I said " YES! " I

suppose this is rather amusing ... <snip> ... "

Oh my! LOL! Well, if wanting to live in a specific style of home

identifies who is eccentric and who is not, then I had better get

acquainted with which homes means what so I do not purchase the wrong

property in years to come. :-)

<Raven marks " mews home " on the list of homes to consider later on>

Raven

[Guest guest]

Oh this sounds so familiar.

Ever had the occurance of having being somewhere, for example a

meeting and said something and it's almost as if you haven't spoken,

then moments later someone else says the same thing and such is

aknowledged - confuses me no end.

Another thing I was musing about regarding many people is they say

things like they like people to have their own mind - I've realised

that yeah okay, until your own mind disagrees with their mind; so in

retrospect what they actually mean is, it's good to have your own

mind as long as it agrees with theirs!

Hope that makes sense, still on first coffee :-)

>

> Hi Raven and Mike:

>  

> I have been on both sides of the situation at different times;

>  

> 1. When I have been the one who did not agree or understand, and

later came to the conclusion the person was right, I have tried to

contact them and let them know.

>  

> 2.  I have also given an opinion which some one disagreed with,

then later  they either came up with the idea as if it were there own

or gave a brief;  'by the way you were right about...'   Possibly the

statement "  I guess you were right " is as close to an apology as some

people are willing to give, and they either forget the greif they put

us through or minimize it in their own minds.

>  

> 3. A third varation is where someone points something out to me

that I had not thought of, and I modify my views to agree with their

point, then later they take the opposite view, the one I HAD held, as

if our previous discussion never happened. 

>  

> When I am aware of this happening I say 'but what about....'

>  

>  A RECENT OCCURANCE: 

> A colleague and I go out occassionally and deliver printed

advertizing materials. 

> In the spring, I made a critical remark about an unkempt property,

She said 'maybe the residents are too busy working 2 or 3 jobs to

survive, and don't have time to tidy their yard.'

> I saw her point, said, 'that is a very good point, I never thought

of that!'

> This fall, we were out in a different area, which she had never

been to before, and she made a critical remark about some of the

homes/yards. 

>  I reminded her of our discussion in the spring, where we had been,

what I had said, what she had said. 

> Her reply was total silence, NOT " oh I'd forgotten' not 'oh you

might be right'. just silence....

>  

> I went on to say that some people are free thinkers and may enjoy

this type of setting,  IF my husband and I divorced, i would't be

able to afford to keep our house, so I would try and rent a 'mews

house' in one of our city's oldest districts, rather than an

appartment in a high rise. (a mews house is accessed from a back

alley, not a street.)

> Then she understood and said 'oh, you mean some people are

eccentrics. " I sad " YES! "

> I suppose this is rather amusing.

> renaissanzelady

>

[Guest guest]

"Ever had the occurance of having being somewhere, for example a meeting and said something and it's almost as if you haven't spoken, then moments later someone else says the same thing and such is aknowledged - confuses me no end."

Yes, It has happened to me many times. Here is what is frustrating. I have been told by some people that no one can hear what I am saying because I mumble. But if I raise my voice only slightly, then they say I am shouting at them.

I am have an elementary recording problem on my father's computer in the basement and I have tested my voice levels from a whisper to a shout. Depending on the proximity to the microphone, a whisper is low and a shout is off the graph. Normal speech is in the middle and a slightly elevated level of speech is reflected properly on the graph.

In reality, however, it would appear that there is no middle ground. Either I am mumbling or shouting.

But then it was explained to me that sometimes I was ignored because it is socially incorrect to be seen agreeing with a reject even if the reject is correct. So the reject is often ignored even though they are perfectly understood, and then later on, a socially popular or accepted person will say the same thing and people will agree with them immediately.

This sort of group paranoia is also problematical in another regard. Often times people will agree with popular people they know to be wrong in order to avoid being called anti-social.

Maybe this is why everyone voted for Obama and why most people in Illinois voted for Blagojovich. It's the only explanation I can fathom for voters making such dumb decisions at the ballot box.

"Another thing I was musing about regarding many people is they say things like they like people to have their own mind - I've realised that yeah okay, until your own mind disagrees with their mind; so in retrospect what they actually mean is, it's good to have your own mind as long as it agrees with theirs!"

Yes, that is true also. However, what you will find is that when people of limited intelligence come up with a brainstorm, what they really want is to be recognized for it, not outpaced and outdone by someone who is smarter than they are.

No one likes to appear stupid, and Aspies have a habit of making other people feel or appear that way quite often.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I prefer to think of us who are different as 'non-conformists', eccentrics, non-visible minority people (the opposite of visible minorities), rather than rejects.

At first I thought ' describes adult behaviour as similair to how immature children might behave at school or in the play ground.' But after some reflection, I realized that adults may seem more sophisticate about how we exclude others, yet an element of childish behaviour remains.

Group-think can exist in many settings, and it's participants may not always be aware of it.

'Power' may not always dwell with those who are liked, nor those who are officially in positions of power,

it may also dwell with those who have 'clout', either financial or otherways

those who have done favors, so that others 'owe them' or

those who are feared for enacting possible negative consequences when opposed. (the bullies)

I believe many times we as individuals (in a free society) have given away our power (by not speaking out, or agreeing outwordly with what we don't really agree with) because of fear:

of not being liked,

of offending a family member or freind,

of being ostracized by the 'group' etc

I have generally found it easier 'to be heard' in a meeting or structured occasion than an informal setting. Possibly because i find it easier to learn and understand the 'rules' and dynamics better for a strucured setting than for a social or informal setting.

A humourous example:

When my husband is ill, migraines with nausea, he tells us, and my daughter and I try not to discuss food with him.

Recently I was ill and asked the 2 of them NOT to mention food in front of me.

Soon, my daughter asked me 'what do you want for supper'

I rather vehemently said 'I am ill, I asked you not to mention food to me, why do you respect it when your dad askes you the same thing and not when I did?'

She very honestly said 'when dad is ill, I remember because of his body language, but your body language doesn't tell me you are ill and I forgot!'

This is certainly insightful of her, I realized in other situations I don't always 'give off' body language that would emphasize what I say.

renaissanzelady

But then it was explained to me that sometimes I was ignored because it is socially incorrect to be seen agreeing with a reject even if the reject is correct. So the reject is often ignored even though they are perfectly understood, and then later on, a socially popular or accepted person will say the same thing and people will agree with them immediately.

This sort of group paranoia is also problematical in another regard. Often times people will agree with popular people they know to be wrong in order to avoid being called anti-social.

Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.

[Guest guest]

" 'Power' may not always dwell with those who are liked, nor those who

are officially in positions of power,

it may also dwell with those who have 'clout', either financial or

otherways those who have done favors, so that others 'owe them' or

those who are feared for enacting possible negative consequences when

opposed. (the bullies) "

Ah yes. This is proven out in Jane Goodall's studies of the chimps and

also of Dian Fossey's study of gorillas. Both chimp and gorilla

societies are like human ones with apes being gracious to those whom

they " owe " something to while ignoring the smarter ones.

Administrator