Re: Parents 'teaching children themselves to avoid bul...

[Guest guest]

The sense of entitlement that goes along with these people is unbelievable and appalling! The attitude that the world OWES them floors me and a few others.

Speaking of a sense of entitlement:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081201214432.rjut4n2u & show_article=1

American teens lie, steal, cheat at 'alarming' rates: study

Dec 1 05:44 PM US/Eastern

American teenagers lie, steal and cheat more at "alarming rates," a study of nearly 30,000 high school students concluded Monday. The attitudes and conduct of some 29,760 high school students across the United States "doesn't bode well for the future when these youngsters become the next generation's politicians and parents, cops and corporate executives, and journalists and generals," the non-profit phson Institute said. In its 2008 Report Card on the Ethics of American Youth, the Los Angeles-based organization said the teenagers' responses to questions about lying, stealing and cheating "reveals entrenched habits of dishonesty for the workforce of the future." Boys were found to lie and steal more than girls. Overall, 30 percent of students admitted to stealing from a store within the past year, a two percent rise from 2006. More than one third of boys (35 percent) said they had stolen goods, compared to 26 percent of girls. An overwhelming majority, 83 percent, of public school and private religious school students admitted to lying to their parents about something significant, compared to 78 percent for those attending independent non-religious schools. "Cheating in school continues to be rampant and it's getting worse," the study found. Amongst those surveyed, 64 percent said they had cheated on a test, compared to 60 percent in 2006. And 38 percent said they had done so two or more times. Despite no significant gender differences on exam cheating, students from non-religious independent schools had the lowest cheating rate, 47 percent, compared to 63 percent of students attending religious schools. "As bad as these numbers are, it appears they understate the level of dishonesty exhibited by America's youth," the study warned, noting than more than a fourth of the students (26 percent) admitted they had lied on at least one or two of the survey questions. "Despite these high levels of dishonesty, these same kids have a high self-image when it comes to ethics."

Some 93 percent of students indicated satisfaction with their own character and ethics, with 77 percent saying that "when it comes to doing what is right, I am better than most people I know." Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

To whit: today's liars are tomorrow's statisticians. Upon what do I

base that on?

There's lies, there's damned lies, and then there's statistics!

And all that being said, considering the nature of the beast of the

questions they're asking, how can we take any of these statistics

about honesty and lying with more than a grain of salt, seeing that

75.32 of statistics are made up on the spot?

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/1/2008 7:03:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> ravenmagic2003@... writes:

>

> The sense of entitlement that goes along with these people is

> unbelievable and appalling! The attitude that the world OWES them

> floors me and a few others.

>

> Speaking of a sense of entitlement:

>

> _http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?

id=081201214432.rjut4n2u & show_article=1_

>

> (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?

id=081201214432.rjut4n2u & show_article=1)

>

> American teens lie, steal, cheat at 'alarming' rates: study

> (http://www.breitbart.com/partner.php?source=afp) Dec 1

05:44 PM US/Eastern

> American teenagers lie, steal and cheat more at " alarming

rates, " a

> study of nearly 30,000 high school students concluded Monday.

> The attitudes and conduct of some 29,760 high school students

across the

> United States " doesn't bode well for the future when these

youngsters become the

> next generation's politicians and parents, cops and corporate

executives,

> and journalists and generals, " the non-profit _phson

Institute_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?

s=phson+Institute & sid=breitbart.com) said.

> In its 2008 Report Card on the Ethics of _American Youth,_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=American+Youth & sid=breitbart.com)

the Los Angeles-based

> organization said the teenagers' responses to questions about

lying, stealing and

> cheating " reveals entrenched habits of dishonesty for the

workforce of the

> future. "

> Boys were found to lie and steal more than girls.

> Overall, 30 percent of students admitted to stealing from a store

within the

> past year, a two percent rise from 2006. More than one third of

boys (35

> percent) said they had stolen goods, compared to 26 percent of

girls.

> An overwhelming majority, 83 percent, of public school and private

religious

> school students admitted to lying to their parents about something

> significant, compared to 78 percent for those attending

independent non-religious

> schools.

> " Cheating in school continues to be rampant and it's getting

worse, " the

> study found. Amongst those surveyed, 64 percent said they had

cheated on a test,

> compared to 60 percent in 2006. And 38 percent said they had done

so two or

> more times.

> Despite no significant _gender differences_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?

s=gender+differences & sid=breitbart.com) on exam cheating, students

from

> non-religious independent schools had the lowest cheating rate, 47

percent,

> compared to 63 percent of students attending religious schools.

> " As bad as these numbers are, it appears they understate the level

of

> dishonesty exhibited by _America's youth,_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?

s=America's+youth & sid=breitbart.com) " the study warned, noting than

more than a fourth

> of the students (26 percent) admitted they had lied on at least

one or two

> of the survey questions.

> " Despite these high levels of dishonesty, these same kids have a

high

> self-image when it comes to ethics. "

> Some 93 percent of students indicated satisfaction with their own

character

> and ethics, with 77 percent saying that " when it comes to doing

what is

> right, I am better than most people I know. "

> **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try

the NEW

> AOL.com.

> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-

dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 18:46, strictnon_conformist <no_reply > wrote:

75.32 of statistics are made up on the spot?Was that one also made up on the spot?

As for boys cheating more often then girls, I thought a study had shown that girls cheat at a near equal rate, but are better at hiding it?May I also put forth the postulate that some of that may be learned behavior, and a small bit of bias? For example, the teen pregnancy rate peaked in the 1950's, but the media doesn't remind us of that.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting that article, . It is amazing (and not

in a good way) what people nowadays do all the while maintaining that

they are basically good, honest people. Outrageous!!!

The article stated: " Despite these high levels of dishonesty, these

same kids have a high self-image when it comes to ethics. " Some 93

percent of students indicated satisfaction with their own character

and ethics, with 77 percent saying that " when it comes to doing what

is right, I am better than most people I know. "

Raven again: I say that this is how warped their perceptions and

self-perceptions are. Then again, this generation and their parents

are the ME generation that say that they break the law (ie. drinking

and driving, copyright infringement, illegal downloading, et al)

because " everyone else is doing it. "

No, not everyone else is 'doing it' -- whatever IT might be --

however it makes it so much easier to justify an immoral or unethical

or illegal act when it is whitewashed with the 'everyone' paintbrush.

Raven

[Guest guest]

strict wrote: " ... <snip> ... how can we take any of these statistics

about honesty and lying with more than a grain of salt, seeing that

75.32 of statistics are made up on the spot? ... <snip> ... "

<Raven jokes with strict> It's just a lie. Don't worry about it

though because everyone's doing 'it.'

Raven

[Guest guest]

See how easy that was?

>

> > 75.32 of statistics are made up on the spot?

>

> Was that one also made up on the spot?

> As for boys cheating more often then girls, I thought a study had shown that

> girls cheat at a near equal rate, but are better at hiding it?

>

> May I also put forth the postulate that some of that may be learned

> behavior, and a small bit of bias? For example, the teen pregnancy rate

> peaked in the 1950's, but the media doesn't remind us of that.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi;many years ago, I wrote a (somewhat) amusing speach for a family member to present, the title was "how to lie with statistics" (the rules of th club didn't prohibit somone else writing the speach for the member, the member had to acknowledge that the speach was written by some one else)renaissanzelady

There's lies, there's damned lies, and then there's statistics!

---

Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Guest guest]

it's exactly the same, that the early twentieth century generations

took on blind faith in extreme political movements and followed them

to disaster because everyone else was doing it.

> this generation and their parents

> are the ME generation that say that they break the law (ie. drinking

> and driving, copyright infringement, illegal downloading, et al)

> because " everyone else is doing it. "

[Guest guest]

One of my favorite paradoxical sounding truisms is...

" Figures don't lie, but lairs figure "

Meaning that assuming you have done all the math right and

have setup your test and control groups fairly the data that arises from

the experiment is valid. But if you want to force a specific outcome to

the experiment it takes very little manipulation the groups and data to

arrange for the mechanism of the of the statistical operation any resort

you want.

Ender

At 09:47 AM 12/2/2008, you wrote:

Hi;

many years ago, I wrote a (somewhat) amusing speach for a family member

to present, the title was " how to lie with statistics "

(the rules of th club didn't prohibit somone else writing the

speach for the member, the member had to acknowledge that the

speach was written by some one else)

renaissanzelady

There's lies, there's damned lies, and then there's

statistics!

---

[Guest guest]

" Despite these high levels of dishonesty, these same kids have a

high self-image when it comes to ethics. "

Some 93 percent of students indicated satisfaction with their own

character and ethics, with 77 percent saying that " when it comes to

doing what is right, I am better than most people I know. "

Gosh, that is kind of scary :-(

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/1/2008 7:03:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> ravenmagic2003@... writes:

>

> The sense of entitlement that goes along with these people is

> unbelievable and appalling! The attitude that the world OWES them

> floors me and a few others.

>

> Speaking of a sense of entitlement:

>

> _http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?

id=081201214432.rjut4n2u & show_article=1_

>

> (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?

id=081201214432.rjut4n2u & show_article=1)

>

> American teens lie, steal, cheat at 'alarming' rates: study

> (http://www.breitbart.com/partner.php?source=afp) Dec 1

05:44 PM US/Eastern

> American teenagers lie, steal and cheat more at " alarming

rates, " a

> study of nearly 30,000 high school students concluded Monday.

> The attitudes and conduct of some 29,760 high school students

across the

> United States " doesn't bode well for the future when these

youngsters become the

> next generation's politicians and parents, cops and corporate

executives,

> and journalists and generals, " the non-profit _phson

Institute_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?

s=phson+Institute & sid=breitbart.com) said.

> In its 2008 Report Card on the Ethics of _American Youth,_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=American+Youth & sid=breitbart.com)

the Los Angeles-based

> organization said the teenagers' responses to questions about

lying, stealing and

> cheating " reveals entrenched habits of dishonesty for the

workforce of the

> future. "

> Boys were found to lie and steal more than girls.

> Overall, 30 percent of students admitted to stealing from a store

within the

> past year, a two percent rise from 2006. More than one third of

boys (35

> percent) said they had stolen goods, compared to 26 percent of

girls.

> An overwhelming majority, 83 percent, of public school and private

religious

> school students admitted to lying to their parents about something

> significant, compared to 78 percent for those attending

independent non-religious

> schools.

> " Cheating in school continues to be rampant and it's getting

worse, " the

> study found. Amongst those surveyed, 64 percent said they had

cheated on a test,

> compared to 60 percent in 2006. And 38 percent said they had done

so two or

> more times.

> Despite no significant _gender differences_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?

s=gender+differences & sid=breitbart.com) on exam cheating, students

from

> non-religious independent schools had the lowest cheating rate, 47

percent,

> compared to 63 percent of students attending religious schools.

> " As bad as these numbers are, it appears they understate the level

of

> dishonesty exhibited by _America's youth,_

> (http://search.breitbart.com/q?

s=America's+youth & sid=breitbart.com) " the study warned, noting than

more than a fourth

> of the students (26 percent) admitted they had lied on at least

one or two

> of the survey questions.

> " Despite these high levels of dishonesty, these same kids have a

high

> self-image when it comes to ethics. "

> Some 93 percent of students indicated satisfaction with their own

character

> and ethics, with 77 percent saying that " when it comes to doing

what is

> right, I am better than most people I know. "

> **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try

the NEW

> AOL.com.

> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-

dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)

>

[Guest guest]

This is sometimes true, but there are exceptions. The last year my mother taught, one of the boys was a bad bully, by that school's standards. Unfortunately, the parents didn't believe what the teachers were saying about him and instead believed him when he said that he was the one being bullied and was just fighting back. One day they had a parent-teacher conference in the afternoon. During the conference, the boy denied doing something he had been reported for that day on the playground. The father told him to stop lying: the father had been in the parking lot across from the playground and had seen the whole thing. Much tears and denial, but the parents were listening to the teachers from then on and the kid shaped up a good bit.

Another one was a real problem until one day he was having a fit and looked up at the door and there was his grandmother. She had come by for a visit to see if the stories about her grandson were true. She went home and told the parents what she saw and from then on, they made irregular, unannounced visits to check up on him. He shaped up as well.

Others didn't go so well. One or two were so bad, but the principal unaccountably kept them on, and cost the school maybe a dozen or more students all told. That doesn't sound like much, but with a school with an enrollment of maybe 120 in a good year, that's a lot of students.

There is a former teacher of mine that is now a writing mentor. I remember her commenting that one thing that parent teacher conferences bear out that "the apple doesn't exactly fall far from the tree". Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.