Re: (Wired) Genetic tests of athlethic prowess- for babies...

[Guest guest]

No, it isn't a good idea. For one thing, suppose the child doesn't WANT to be an athlete? When I was in high school, there were a few athletes who really weren't into it, but did it because their parents pushed them into it. Just think how bad that would be if someone's parents had a DNA test that said they would make a great football player, but they didn't want to do it? On the other hand, what about someone whose test said they should be perfect for a sport, but eventually don't make a team, or the big leagues, because they don't have the coordination or ability to work as a team member, perhaps because they have been told they are better than everyone else for so long?

It doesn't matter so much now when it is about physical things because people can generally eyeball this kind of thing. Huge strapping guy would make a better football player than the small sickly guy. That kind of "discrimination" is seen as natural and reasonable. But what happens when this begins to be applied to mental skills? Its OK to tell people they stink at sports, but what about when they are told they are "too stupid" to do a certain job or that they will only be able to get menial jobs and manual labor? That's not going to go over at all well.

Does anyone else also think this might not be the best of ideas? A strong counterpoint is one cross country runner I know that is simply not made for cross country. His legs are short, his strength is more in the upper body than most runners, and his muscles are not endurance muscles, but he does have one attribute that is key: His spirit is very competitive, and he can take pain in large amounts.Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I don't think so. I'll have to rent it.

Anyone ever see Gattica?Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

.. __,_._,__It

It may also be included into medical records if the tests were expanded for a wider range of conditions, abilities, or lack thereof. That may become a little troublesome. For example, I would not want the fact that I am bisexual to be in the report, or even worse transexual, even if some days I wish that I could physically prove both so that I don't end up in mindless circles trying to convince someone (parents, doctors, etc...).

[Guest guest]

For various reasons, I see this whole thing being even more dangerous, perhaps,

than

horoscopes being relied upon.

Here's the curious thing: while they're not always the most commonly visible

ones,

statistically, the body shape/strength distribution isn't always what you'd

think would be

the case for runners. Also, what's commonly misunderstood is the thought that

upper

body strength doesn't play into it. For cross country (at least, in my

experience, for

running the local mountain trails) upper body strength (more importantly, the

core) is far

more important than you'd think, even more important than for playing soccer (US

name of

AKA " football " everywhere else). People staying only on the road for running

seem to have

more of an advantage with having the legs be ideal, but again, the upper body is

not

completely unimportant for running: if you don't believe this, do a very simple

test, where

you run outside with standard swinging arm motion, and then try doing the same

speed

with keeping your arms stationary, especially straight down. You'll observe

that it is much

harder to run with your arms straight down or stationary, and this is because

arm swing

during running provides a combination of benefits of balancing the body overall

during

the gait, combined with conservation of motion.

Now, someone that has a massive upper body and a puny lower body is likely to be

at a

distinct disadvantage, because the heart will be pumping blood and oxygen to a

lot of

muscle mass that's not being fully utilized, and that'll be an overall drain on

efficiency that

can't be made up, regardless of whether they're a sprinter or a long distance

runner, it'll

affect them.

The person you describe, Zoe, sounds closer to the body type of several of my

siblings:

well-suited to slow, but hefty muscle output, for a relatively long time, which

would make

them ideally suited to being a furniture mover ( I am most definitely not

ideally suited to

that). They'd probably do much better off doing wrestling as a sport, as long

as they're

balanced overall. I'm personally best-suited to fairly long distance running,

and I do it

with a backpack on to be mostly self-sufficient with water: considering I'm well

over the

weight I should be right now, I know that if I were at my proper weight, I can

easily

maintain (if at the shape I've been in, in the past) speed for several hours

with a 40 pound

pack. Mind you, I'm not fast, but faster than walking: I'll never be a

competitive runner for

the half or full marathon, due to a combination of age and other factors, and

I'm not

worried about that But, I'm in sufficient condition I could run a

half-marathon once a

week without a problem, even without doing the typical training program. My

observation

is that there are very few people that'd be completely unable to complete a half

marathon,

if they aren't in horrible shape and they have the mental strength to continue

on, and

know how to pace themselves at something sustainable. That's not to say that

many

would ever have much hope for being competitive A full marathon, however,

while only

being twice as long, requires easily 4 times as much preparation for

conditioning to

achieve, because the half marathon is about the distance that can be run with

the

carbohydrates that a human body can hold in store: for a full marathon, if you

tried to run

primarily on carbohydrates (anaerobic) you'd bonk by the half way mark.

" Bonking " is the

name of what happens to a person when they run out of carbs, and their body and

mind

do their best to convince them to stop, because it just doesn't feel like it

At that point, it

becomes largely a case of mind-over-muscle, and you're stuck having to get by on

almost

entirely what you've achieved for aerobic conditioning, because your heart rate

to achieve

anything that required carbs in addition to oxygen goes way up at the same time

your

speed goes down, and there's a sharp upward inflection point at your aerobic

heart rates,

which varies by age and condition.

Oh, yes: I got slightly derailed there... different sports take different

personalities to

achieve in, regardless of natural physiological advantages, and we currently

have no clue

how to even judge such things from genetics, and I'd wager we never will have

that much

ability to decipher that based on genetics alone.

>

> No, it isn't a good idea. For one thing, suppose the child doesn't WANT to

> be an athlete? When I was in high school, there were a few athletes who really

> weren't into it, but did it because their parents pushed them into it. Just

> think how bad that would be if someone's parents had a DNA test that said they

> would make a great football player, but they didn't want to do it? On the

> other hand, what about someone whose test said they should be perfect for a

> sport, but eventually don't make a team, or the big leagues, because they

don't

> have the coordination or ability to work as a team member, perhaps because

> they have been told they are better than everyone else for so long?

>

> It doesn't matter so much now when it is about physical things because

> people can generally eyeball this kind of thing. Huge strapping guy would make

a

> better football player than the small sickly guy. That kind of

" discrimination "

> is seen as natural and reasonable. But what happens when this begins to be

> applied to mental skills? Its OK to tell people they stink at sports, but what

> about when they are told they are " too stupid " to do a certain job or that

> they will only be able to get menial jobs and manual labor? That's not going

> to go over at all well.

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/6/2008 12:20:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> Zoe700@... writes:

>

> Does anyone else also think this might not be the best of ideas? A strong

> counterpoint is one cross country runner I know that is simply not made for

> cross country. His legs are short, his strength is more in the upper body than

> most runners, and his muscles are not endurance muscles, but he does have one

> attribute that is key: His spirit is very competitive, and he can take pain

> in large amounts.

>

> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and

> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-

dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

>

[Guest guest]

Anyone ever see Gattica?

No, it isn't a good idea. For one thing, suppose the child doesn't WANT to be an athlete? When I was in high school, there were a few athletes who really weren't into it, but did it because their parents pushed them into it. Just think how bad that would be if someone's parents had a DNA test that said they would make a great football player, but they didn't want to do it? On the other hand, what about someone whose test said they should be perfect for a sport, but eventually don't make a team, or the big leagues, because they don't have the coordination or ability to work as a team member, perhaps because they have been told they are better than everyone else for so long?

It doesn't matter so much now when it is about physical things because people can generally eyeball this kind of thing. Huge strapping guy would make a better football player than the small sickly guy. That kind of " discrimination " is seen as natural and reasonable. But what happens when this begins to be applied to mental skills? Its OK to tell people they stink at sports, but what about when they are told they are " too stupid " to do a certain job or that they will only be able to get menial jobs and manual labor? That's not going to go over at all well.

Does anyone else also think this might not be the best of ideas? A strong counterpoint is one cross country runner I know that is simply not made for cross country. His legs are short, his strength is more in the upper body than most runners, and his muscles are not endurance muscles, but he does have one attribute that is key: His spirit is very competitive, and he can take pain in large amounts.

Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

-- -Jade http://castcast.podbean.com

[Guest guest]

" Anyone ever see Gattica? "

I have. And I predict that is where we are heading.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Jaden asked: " Anyone ever see Gattica? "

Yes and often at that. In fact, I even purchased a copy of the DVD for

my best friend to watch at his home.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Zoe wrote: " ... <snip> ... I have not heard about Gattica. Do you

mean Galactica? ... <snip> ... "

Oh no, Zoe, we mean GATTACA. You absolutely HAVE to rent the DVD, my

friend.

LINK: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/

is one of the last " natural " babies born into a

sterile, genetically-enhanced world, where life expectancy and

disease likelihood are ascertained at birth. Myopic and due to die at

30, he has no chance of a career in a society that now discriminates

against your genes, instead of your gender, race or religion.

Going underground, he assumes the identity of Jerome, crippled in an

accident, and achieves prominence in the Gattaca Corporation, where

he is selected for his lifelong desire: a manned mission to Saturn.

Constantly passing gene tests by diligently using samples of Jerome's

hair, skin, blood and urine, his now-perfect world is thrown into

increasing desperation, his dream within reach, when the mission

director is killed - and he carelessly loses an eyelash at the scene!

Certain that they know the murderer's ID, but unable to track down

the former , the police start to close in, with extra

searches, and new gene tests. With the once-in-a-lifetime launch only

days away, must avoid arousing suspicion, while passing the

tests, evading the police, and not knowing whom he can trust [end

quote].

Now tell me, Zoe ... isn't that the sort of movie that you just HAVE

to rent and watch a few times over? :-)

Raven