Re: Productive Discussions-Explosive Exercise is pointless

[Guest guest]

No, training to enhance bar speed on heavy attempts is not HIT. I have meet

video showing successive attempts, from opener to max load showing bar speed as

the bar leaves the floor is not significantly slower despite a considerably

higher weight. For the conventional deadlifter, BAR SPEED off the floor is

VITAL. Unlike sumo which gets more assist from tight equipment, conventional

lifters have to engage speed as well as a powerful and synchonized pull of the

back/upper body and leg drive of the lower body.

I'm using overloads and using them progressively which is not a HIT principle.

I am and have been succeeding using the same principles of the MULTIPLE SET,

PROGRESSIVE OVERLOADS, PERIODIZATION with a focus on a MAXIMAL SINGLE.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

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-------------- Original message --------------

Well said Tom. I would add that if a powerlifter is attempting his/her max lift

then how could the bar possibly move quickly? It cannot. But the individual

trains to enhance that skill development in that specific skill, action or

moment. I would argue that this is the premise of HIT training. At the end of a

particular set when the individual is fatigued and going seems tough the coach

or teammate encourages that individual to think " explosively. " I do not recall

the individual who coined the phrase " controlled chaos. " Even Mike Mazzarato,

professional body builder, stated " it is not the first two reps that count, but

the last two. "

A second thought on the HIT comment towards athletics... Why is it that over a

dozen NFL teams and D1 college programs are still using it provided it is such a

fallacy as described in this forum? When I first saw the comments on Siff/Mannie

I thought it was funny people were still digging up this argument. What is

Mannie in his 10th or 11th season at MSU? Clearly he is not having difficulty

getting and keeping a job regardless of comments of this group!

Critical thinking... its a S.O.B.

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[Guest guest]

Football teams do a ton of resistance training outside of the weight

room. Weight room training is simply supplemental and is not a

requirement for many positions. So HIT can work just fine in this

scenario. As can training like a gymnast (which some NHL teams now promote).

It has little to do with the efficiency of the training, since it is not

the primary determinant of their sporting success.

Rob Barrese wrote:

> Well said Tom. I would add that if a powerlifter is attempting his/her

> max lift then how could the bar possibly move quickly? It cannot. But

> the individual trains to enhance that skill development in that

> specific skill, action or moment. I would argue that this is the

> premise of HIT training. At the end of a particular set when the

> individual is fatigued and going seems tough the coach or teammate

> encourages that individual to think " explosively. " I do not recall the

> individual who coined the phrase " controlled chaos. " Even Mike

> Mazzarato, professional body builder, stated " it is not the first two

> reps that count, but the last two. "

>

> A second thought on the HIT comment towards athletics... Why is it

> that over a dozen NFL teams and D1 college programs are still using it

> provided it is such a fallacy as described in this forum? When I first

> saw the comments on Siff/Mannie I thought it was funny people were

> still digging up this argument. What is Mannie in his 10th or 11th

> season at MSU? Clearly he is not having difficulty getting and keeping

> a job regardless of comments of this group!

>

> Critical thinking... its a S.O.B.

>

> Rob Barrese

> PA, USA

>

> __._,_.__

--

Hobman

Saskatoon, CANADA

[Guest guest]

In his classic The Structure of Scientific Revolutions author

Kuhn cites a comment of Max Plancks which holds that the advancement

of science is not due to strikingly new theories but instead due to an

older generation of scientists who dominate the field dying off so a

young generation dealing with anomolies can move discovery forward.

A lot of gyms have Nautilus machines. And a lot of trainers still

instruct in their use. All that proves is Nautilus machines and

Nautilus training still exist. Demographics don't necessarily speak of

causality. I know of many gyms with fairly full batteries of 20-30

year old Nautilus who keep them simply because the cost of replacement

is sky high - cheaper to maintain them than replace them.

Nautilus Corporation has been in the news quite a bit of late due to

its growing problems of survival. While the product lines are broader

than resistance machines, the general complexion of the company is one

of poor performance in the competitive market place. Is that due to

more of the " conspiracy against Nautilus/HIT the true believers

espouse " or merely due to the dying down of a product life cycle? You

can buy Nautilus on eBay, right there along with Edsels, 8 track

tapes, and other obsolete items.

Ken O'Neill

Austin, Texas

>

> ***************************

> A second thought on the HIT comment towards athletics... Why is it

> that over a dozen NFL teams and D1 college programs are still using

> it provided it is such a fallacy as described in this forum?

> ***************************

>

> The fact that some NFL teams and D1 programs use HIT is not evidence

> that single sets are just as effective as multiple sets. In fact,

> the number of teams using any type of training system is irrelevant.

> A training program's popularity is not, by itself, evidence of its

> effectiveness. To claim otherwise is to commit the argumentum ad

> populum (appeal to popularity) fallacy.

>

>

> Krieger, M.S., M.S.

> Research Associate

> 20/20 Lifestyles

> http://www.2020lifestyles.com

> Bellevue, WA

> Editor, Journal of Pure Power

> http://www.jopp.us

>