Re: reply to Jerry on ozone autohemotherapy by Dr.B.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jerry:

I saw your post and thought I'd respond. The reply is lengthy but

thorough since I won't be in the office this week again and wanted to

give it my best shot.

Before I do, I want to make a point I've wanted to make for awhile and

then I'll get to my main theme...

P-L-E-A-S-E change the Subject line when changing topics... This one

said " FIR " but the discussion was about ozone...The topic was important

and I almost deleted it because I'm not interested in the on-going FIR

thread right now... So, I'm asking everyone to please take the extra 5

seconds to change the Subject line when you repost if you're changing

subjects so we don't skip important stuff... Now, on to my main point

about these recent posts...

Despite what this post leads one to believe, you cannot replace the

clinical effects of autohemotherapy treatments with sauna therapy.

Dr.Bocci's journal article does not make that point... In fact, I

correspond personally with Dr.Bocci periodically and he doesn't

agree...the effects essentially show that you increase oxygen and ROS in

the blood for a short time and he said that the study did not say it was

equivalent to autohemotherapy...

For a review of Dr.Bocci's statements on the subject in 2000, here is

the link--I think it is important for anyone on this list who is

interested in ozone therapies to read...

http://www.mmfnd.org/NL/ONN/WS/bocci001.html

Dr.Bocci mentions me in this post (we were having ongoing discussions)

and was disconcerted that our clinic combines ozone MAHT with UVBI, etc.

since it doesn't help gather the data to validate the single therapy

alone. Clinically we already know that these therapies work and we've

found excellent results combining them with appropriate antioxidant

buffering of the patients blood ahead of time. There is so much data on

the effective use of ozone that we don't need to add any more validation

from our own clinical perspective, which Dr.Bocci has time to do and is

paid to do but which we neither have the time nor the $ to pursue such

mono research...which would also be ethically wrong for our therapy

approach for our very ill patients who deserve the best possible therapy

regimen we can give them...which is usually combinations of various

therapies and procedures.

By way of introduction, Autohemotherapy is a medical procedure whereby

the technician/nurse/doc pulls out whole blood, infuses ozone/oxygen

into it and reinfuses it into you.

Autohemotherapy is not a traditional procedure you will find in any

standardized textbook or medical dictionary. It is primarily done by

Integrative/Alt.Med. physicians and practices and comes from Europe

originally. The closest thing in medicine you may think of is dialysis

but that is much more damaging and dangerous. It is basically a blood

purification technique.

Major autohemotherapy is where we pull out approx. 250cc of heparinized

or citrinized whole blood, mix it with equal parts ozone/oxygen gas

mixture, filter it and return it to you. (In our clinic we actually

frequently do another procedure simultaneously called UVBI which also

exposes the blood to UVC light, called phototherapy, and we don't use

the same UVBI unit shown in the photo any longer, this is a few years

old now...)

Minor autohemotherapy is where we take out less than 100ccs, usually via

syringe, and treat it, which is fine for some things but if you want to

really get a good effect in a shorter time, MAHT is preferred. These

are not procedures to be done at home. As you will notice in Dr.Bocci's

post above, some individuals advocate the dangerous practice of

injecting ozone gas into ones veins (which was a thread on this list

over the last 2 weeks) directly which we don't recommend (injection of

ozonated substances is a different matter but direct gas we feel is a

no-no)...since we've seen alot of damaged patients and oxidized veins

and phlebitis (painful inflammation of the veins).

Advocates say we're trying to just keep the price of the simple

procedure high and in the realm of medicine, and that the risk of such

damage is negligible, however that is far from true, especially in our

case...we've seen enough damage from " home injectors " over the years

that we will never approve of it, not to mention the 2 documented deaths

in Italy. If the fact that you don't know how much blood is being

treated and what kind of damage is being done to the lungs and venous

structures isn't a good enough reason to avoid it, and proponents of

home injections don't care that it is illegal since unfortunately

ozone's use medically is not permitted in most states, then perhaps

greater concern should be the danger one is put in because of selling

medical supplies or medications without a license across state lines

without an RX (syringes, needles, IV bottles, heparin or citrates),

which is a felony and more than one person has been busted over it.

There is always that extreme stance of those who are willing to take

that chance, however...sometimes in the name of desperate patients...

Here's a good post to give some one else's opinion who is qualified to

comment:

http://www.mmfnd.org/NL/ONN/WS/passero001.html

I'm a Naturopathic practitioner who is on staff with a clinc in the TJ

borderzone and we're German certified trainers in Oxidative Medicine and

have done hundreds of procedures clinically over these last 14+ years.

I use ozone therapy every week for something or other. We do major

autohemotherapy, rectal insufflations, ozone FIR saunas, subcutaneous

injections, etc. (Using your own ozone generator for rectal

insufflations, saunas, etc. is perfectly legal for home use also...).

Ozone therapy has a definite place in an integrative clinical practice.

We also tend to do alot of High Dose IV-C and oral Lipisomal C for

chronic and degenerative disease (oxidative therapy again)... We also

utilize the services of our So.Calif. associate clinic for Hyperbaric

Oxygen Therapy which has very different benefits because of the pressure

involved which ozone can't always replicate...Rapid Recovery Hyperbarics

in San Bernardino, Ca.

There are many good safe clinics across the US, Mexico, Canada, Europe

where the MAHT procedure can be done legally. My favorite 2 besides us

are my friends Dr.Shallenberger in Carson City, NV and Dr.Hauser in Chicago.

Here's our website for more information if you're interested.

http://www.arrowheadhealthworks.com/03uvprog.htm

PS. For those interested, we've (Europa) just affiliated with

Dr.Bradford and American Biologics. We've moved into downtown TJ and

have a hospital called

Hospital Englase...we've combined the best of their research and US

school in WA DC and our clinical experience for a dynamite team...we're

still treating everything under the sun and are still one of the only

clinics which is fee-for-service.

Carolyn Bormann, N.D.,C.M.H.T.

U.S. Director/Case Coordinator

Europa Institute of Integrated Medicine

Tijuana, BC Mexico

& Owner, Arrowhead Healthworks

Lake Arrowhead, Calif.

*********************************

Flynn wrote:

>What is autohemotherapy. I looked it up in the medical dictionary and could

>not find the word. Also are viruses such as HIV and Hepatitis aerobic or

>anaerobic and what effect does the ozone have on them. Thanks.

> Flynn

>1447 Peachtree St. NE

>Suite 414

>Atlanta, Ga. 30309

>

>Tao400@...

> Re: fir

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >>Something to think about: The moisture in a steam sauna plays an

>> > >>important role in the absorption of ozone through the skin.

>> > >>In a FIR sauna, the only moisture present will be that created by

>>sweating.

>> > >>

>> > >>Dennis

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >

>> > >I have heard from various steam sauna proponents that water on the

>>

>>

>skin

>

>

>>is

>> > >necessary for ozone absorption. From the way they talk, one's body

>>

>>

>must

>

>

>>be

>> > >exposed to steam, and that's the only way the ozone will be absorbed

>>into

>>the

>> > >system.

>> > >

>> > >However, from my own experience, you don't need steam to begin the

>>absorption

>> > >process. I have an ozone generator with a tube leading into a body

>>

>>

>suit.

>

>

>>It's

>> > >crude, and you can't adjust the flow or the rate. What's more, there's

>>no

>> > >sweating mechanism to make you sweat, except for the " insensible "

>>

>>

>sweat

>

>

>>(meaning

>> > >the " not easily sensed " ) that the skin is naturally emitting anyway. I

>>have used

>> > >this device and still felt the effects of ozone.

>> > >

>> > >So I don't think you need much sweat. If the person is already

>>

>>

>sweating

>

>

>>from a

>> > >FIR sauna, it seems to me, that's plenty to allow the ozone to

>>

>>

>penetrate

>

>

>>and do

>> > >its job. If I could feel the effects of ozone while in my

>>not-very-professional

>> > >ozone body suit without a sauna, then I think a FIR sauna would work

>>just

>>fine.

>> > >

>> > >Regards,

>> > >Nina

>> > >

>> > >Nina Silver, Ph.D.

>> > >Author, *The Handbook of Rife Frequency Healing*

>> > >Read excerpts from, and order the book at

>> > > http://www.healingheart-harmonics.com

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

>>other alternative self-help subjects.

>> >

>> > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>> >

>> > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

>>are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

>>information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at

>>

>>

>your

>

>

>>own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability

>>

>>

>to

>

>

>>take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

>>hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

>>here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a

>>

>>

>researcher

>

>

>>or health care provider.

>> >

>> > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

>>address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

>> > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY

>>

>>

>of

>

>

>>the message! :

>> >

>> > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>> >

>> > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal

>>mode.

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Dr. Bormann,

With due respect, I would like to take exception to a couple of things I

perceive in your post.

First, while it may be illegal in most states, as you say, to treat

people with ozone injections, it is not illegal for people to do

personal research on themselves, which is vaguely defined in FDA rules

under research & in US code & specifically does not exclude American

individuals experimenting on themselves. As for needles being illegal,

here in West Virginia, as in some other states, any adult can walk into

a drug store & buy them by the case, no questions asked. The heparin &

citrates would require a prescription, but that can be done legally in a

number of different ways. So, it doesn't HAVE to be illegal for people

to do direct injection at home, as you seem to state categorically.

Further, I will not deny you have seen problems in your clinics from

" home injectors. " Many humans tend to act as though " more is more " --

always -- in most things they do. But, I have never acknowledged that an

idiot's behavior is good reason to prevent me from making my own

decisions. That would be rule by the lowest common denominator, a

ludicrous concept. If someone takes the effort to learn how to direct

inject ozone properly & safely, then that is still their choice as

American Sovereigns. Or, citizens of the Universe, as far as I'm concerned.

You see, unlike people in all other countries, American citizens are

SOVEREIGNS! Equal to being kings & queens. THAT is the country our

founding fathers gave us, which public education conveniently forgets!

Which means we are not subjects of the government, as in most of the

rest of the world. It is even embodied in US code 18... something or

other, I can find the exact quote, if given time, that says laws that

violate constitutional rights are unconstitutional when they are

written, before they are enacted & signed, and that American Sovereigns

do not need to pay any attention to them as long as they do not live on

a Government reservation, make their living from the Government, etc.

This is important. It might involve fighting the Government in court,

but there is a valuable defense any American can use on their own behalf

for self-treatment, and the Government knows it.

Now, why do I even care when I do neither direct injection or AHT?

Because people who have the proper equipment have a right, at least in

the US, to have direct injection paraphernalia in their homes in case of

biological warfare, which is a real hazard at present. And, if a dread

disease were to spread in our country, no one would bother to listen to

the fears or ideas of anyone who told them they couldn't use a valuable

tool to save their life & the lives of loved ones.

Personally, I don't like anything invasive to the body except in

immediate life-or-death situations like injuries from a car wreck or an

anthrax attack. And, if I wanted to employ either AHT or direct

injection, I would much rather have a trained professional do it to me.

But, I gave daily IM injections to a family member at age 8 & IV's at

age nine, and I have also considered taking the legal steps to

accumulate direct injection equipment in case of a catastrophic spread

of a life-threatening disease.

Unlike many people who prefer alternative medical practices, I am not a

" doctor basher, " and have made statements to that effect frequently.

Right or wrong, almost every doctor I have met actually believes in what

they are doing, even allopaths practicing the " cut, burn & poison "

school of medicine. They can't be more than human, can they? So, I do

not consider doctors, allopaths or naturopaths, to be perfected hunman

beings, nor are many of them any smarter than I am. So, if they can

learn to do something safely to us, we can also learn to do those same

tthings to ourselves safely. It's simply a matter of opportunity &

attention.

I'm not going to get into the AHT vs direct IV question because I am

admittedly underexperienced, although there are lots of credentialed

doctors worldwide that think AHT is more dangerous than direct

injection. So, it seems to me like six of one, half dozen... You pays

your money & takes your chances. But, just as we should be careful of

using plastics for water jugs because they can outgas bad chems, I shy

away from using either direct injection of ozone or AHT because anything

that prevents coagulation is dangerous & heparin is rat poison.

Finally, whether one chooses AHT or direct injection, they both require

MANY treatments, and all too many patients can't afford to travel to the

location where the treatment is available, much less the series of

treatments themselves. For these people, it seems to me, personal

treatment with direct injection -- which has a longer medical history

than AHT & it isn't all bad -- might just be their ONLY real option to

obtain health, and therefore is a legitimate topic of discussion for

this list.

What I really wish everyone on this list would do is say they disagree

with something without having to say the alternative is terrible or of

no real use. In my opinion, statements that seem that way are more often

a matter of word-choice than core belief. But, I wouldn't dare put

words in anyone's mouth.

The whole subject of self-treatment always reminds me of my childhood,

growing up in Mexico. Back then an eight-year-old could walk into a

pharmacy & buy almost anything for their parents, or say they were.

People could buy anything except opium over the counter. And, it has to

be understood that most of Mexico in the 50's was illiterate! " El

Doctor " was usually a pharmacist, or even a pharmacist's assistant. But,

did illiterates having virtually any and all drugs available to them

create the public health hazard, or harm, doctors constantly predict in

the US? Absolutely not! And, it isn't any more dangerous for educated

people either!

At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

sincerely,

namaste,

jim

Carolyn Bormann, N.D. wrote:

>Advocates say we're trying to just keep the price of the simple

>procedure high and in the realm of medicine, and that the risk of such

>damage is negligible, however that is far from true, especially in our

>case...we've seen enough damage from " home injectors " over the years

>that we will never approve of it, not to mention the 2 documented deaths

>in Italy. If the fact that you don't know how much blood is being

>treated and what kind of damage is being done to the lungs and venous

>structures isn't a good enough reason to avoid it, and proponents of

>home injections don't care that it is illegal since unfortunately

>ozone's use medically is not permitted in most states, then perhaps

>greater concern should be the danger one is put in because of selling

>medical supplies or medications without a license across state lines

>without an RX (syringes, needles, IV bottles, heparin or citrates),

>which is a felony and more than one person has been busted over it.

> There is always that extreme stance of those who are willing to take

>that chance, however...sometimes in the name of desperate patients...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have read that rectal ozone is 95% as effective as major autohemotherapy.

Agree or disagree?

Dennis

[Guest guest]

For someone who is not in the know, do you recommend the purchase of an

ozone sauna. From the one cite you referenced, the guy thought that it only

helped with skin conditions. I want to possibly buy one for a deep cleanse,

not just of the surface levels.

To date, I have had two ozone sauna treatments. I did notice that the oxygen

like tingling sensation was below the skin to a depth of maybe an 1/8 to a

1/4 inch, as best as I could perceive, after the treatment. I do not know it

if it went deeper.

Finally, I did notice the rectal use of ozone was said to be okay by Bocci.

Is that a good way of getting ozone and how does it compare with

autohemotherapy. Thanks.

Flynn

1447 Peachtree St. NE

Suite 414

Atlanta, Ga. 30309

Tao400@...

Re: fir

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >>Something to think about: The moisture in a steam sauna plays an

> >> > >>important role in the absorption of ozone through the skin.

> >> > >>In a FIR sauna, the only moisture present will be that created by

> >>sweating.

> >> > >>

> >> > >>Dennis

> >> > >>

> >> > >>

> >> > >

> >> > >I have heard from various steam sauna proponents that water on the

> >>

> >>

> >skin

> >

> >

> >>is

> >> > >necessary for ozone absorption. From the way they talk, one's body

> >>

> >>

> >must

> >

> >

> >>be

> >> > >exposed to steam, and that's the only way the ozone will be absorbed

> >>into

> >>the

> >> > >system.

> >> > >

> >> > >However, from my own experience, you don't need steam to begin the

> >>absorption

> >> > >process. I have an ozone generator with a tube leading into a body

> >>

> >>

> >suit.

> >

> >

> >>It's

> >> > >crude, and you can't adjust the flow or the rate. What's more,

there's

> >>no

> >> > >sweating mechanism to make you sweat, except for the " insensible "

> >>

> >>

> >sweat

> >

> >

> >>(meaning

> >> > >the " not easily sensed " ) that the skin is naturally emitting anyway.

I

> >>have used

> >> > >this device and still felt the effects of ozone.

> >> > >

> >> > >So I don't think you need much sweat. If the person is already

> >>

> >>

> >sweating

> >

> >

> >>from a

> >> > >FIR sauna, it seems to me, that's plenty to allow the ozone to

> >>

> >>

> >penetrate

> >

> >

> >>and do

> >> > >its job. If I could feel the effects of ozone while in my

> >>not-very-professional

> >> > >ozone body suit without a sauna, then I think a FIR sauna would work

> >>just

> >>fine.

> >> > >

> >> > >Regards,

> >> > >Nina

> >> > >

> >> > >Nina Silver, Ph.D.

> >> > >Author, *The Handbook of Rife Frequency Healing*

> >> > >Read excerpts from, and order the book at

> >> > > http://www.healingheart-harmonics.com

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies,

and

> >>other alternative self-help subjects.

> >> >

> >> > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

> >> >

> >> > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find

here

> >>are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

> >>information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at

> >>

> >>

> >your

> >

> >

> >>own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the

ability

> >>

> >>

> >to

> >

> >

> >>take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree

to

> >>hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas

found

> >>here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a

> >>

> >>

> >researcher

> >

> >

> >>or health care provider.

> >> >

> >> > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the

following

> >>address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> >> > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY

> >>

> >>

> >of

> >

> >

> >>the message! :

> >> >

> >> > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

> >> >

> >> > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal

> >>mode.

> >> >

> >> >