Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Easy gals. Keep it polite. I know tensions run high on this topic, but it would be good to keep everything from getting personal.... We all have good intentions here. Everyone is after the same thing....it's just a difficult topic. But remember, no one should take it personally... :-) D. co-moderator On Dec 9, 2004, at 1:12 PM, RawDairy wrote: > > >>>> When you are ready to actually have a conversation where you are >>>> open to learning as well as preaching, you may find a lot less >>>> defensiveness apparent. <<< > > > > ~~~You know, I've said all along that I realize what I'm saying is not > practical the way things are. I've said that I realize farmers have > fed grains to cattle for longer than any of us here have been alive. > I've said I realize it's all about the money, and I understand and > appreciate that, and that you are stuck the way things are at present. > And, I've said this is something you might want to start thinking > about and planning for, because people are just going to stop buying > you products eventually. If you can say what you said above, showing > SO little understanding of my meaning or intent, then I have little > hope for you. And, I can see I'm never going to get my point across > to you, so I won't be responding to your posts anymore. > > Carol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Easy gals. Keep it polite. I know tensions run high on this topic, but it would be good to keep everything from getting personal.... We all have good intentions here. Everyone is after the same thing....it's just a difficult topic. But remember, no one should take it personally... :-) D. co-moderator On Dec 9, 2004, at 1:12 PM, RawDairy wrote: > > >>>> When you are ready to actually have a conversation where you are >>>> open to learning as well as preaching, you may find a lot less >>>> defensiveness apparent. <<< > > > > ~~~You know, I've said all along that I realize what I'm saying is not > practical the way things are. I've said that I realize farmers have > fed grains to cattle for longer than any of us here have been alive. > I've said I realize it's all about the money, and I understand and > appreciate that, and that you are stuck the way things are at present. > And, I've said this is something you might want to start thinking > about and planning for, because people are just going to stop buying > you products eventually. If you can say what you said above, showing > SO little understanding of my meaning or intent, then I have little > hope for you. And, I can see I'm never going to get my point across > to you, so I won't be responding to your posts anymore. > > Carol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 I understand ...some people are just sensitive. I am sure Carol is really a nice person and I told her so. I guess some folks just take emails SO personally and it is hard for them to have a discussion on chat groups. I think there is a learning curve for everyone on chat groups. And it's especially hard I have found when every single email hits your box. For some reason I found that to be more intrusive, more invading and hostile. My hackles went down considerably when i went to Digest format--weird I know. Anyway, I think Carol has the best of intentions, and she made good points, but so have all of you. Dialogue is a good thing, it makes everyone think and consider their methodology. But it's easier for some people to be offended by the written word. We've had others on this list like that, and if you can't adjust you end up leaving the list. Unfortunately I think Carol has left. It is a shame because I think she had some good things to say, as did everyone. Oh well, c'est la vie. I can't rescue the whole world. :-) > Hey, , just got to your post. Right-o. > > > > I do have a tendency to take it personally when the accusations are thrown > at me:-) > > > > In addition, the mis-information begs to be dis-abused. > > > > I will assume, for what it is worth, that the validity and the vehemence > presented in from someone who really does mean well and in her ignorance of > the realities of animal husbandry and her indicated health problems is > having problems keeping from attacking the solutions and not the problems. > > > > Something as simple comparing feeding some grain to a cow as giving them > hormones should have shut me up as being able to reason and carry one a > dialog. > > > > > > www.MajestyFarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Wow, , sorry she did that. It is unacceptable behavior on a chat list. D. > Well, guys, so much for enjoying my " time for the computer " break. > > > > I have received 3 personal, nasty, and name-calling emails from Carol. > > > > I want to apologize to anyone who was offending by my strident tone in the > discussion on ruminant health and grain; it seems ironic that I have been > grass based for 8+ years and am defending feeding concentrates to milkers on > a raw dairy list. > > > > Back to lurkdom for a while after tonight, so many kids to check, so many > teats to milk > > > > > > www.MajestyFarm.com > > " If everybody minded their own business, " the Duchess said, in a hoarse > growl, " the world would go around a great deal faster than it does. " ~ > Carroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Hey, , just got to your post. Right-o. I do have a tendency to take it personally when the accusations are thrown at meJ In addition, the mis-information begs to be dis-abused. I will assume, for what it is worth, that the validity and the vehemence presented in from someone who really does mean well and in her ignorance of the realities of animal husbandry and her indicated health problems is having problems keeping from attacking the solutions and not the problems. Something as simple comparing feeding some grain to a cow as giving them hormones should have shut me up as being able to reason and carry one a dialog. www.MajestyFarm.com It must be obvious that liberty necessarily means freedom to choose foolishly as well as wisely; freedom to choose evil as well as good; freedom to enjoy the rewards of good judgment, and freedom to suffer the penalties of bad judgment. If this is not true, the word " freedom " has no meaning. – Ben Moreell From: Dady Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:58 PM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: Grain Free Milking Easy gals. Keep it polite. I know tensions run high on this topic, but it would be good to keep everything from getting personal.... We all have good intentions here. Everyone is after the same thing....it's just a difficult topic. But remember, no one should take it personally... :-) D. co-moderator On Dec 9, 2004, at 1:12 PM, RawDairy wrote: > > >>>> When you are ready to actually have a conversation where you are >>>> open to learning as well as preaching, you may find a lot less >>>> defensiveness apparent. <<< > > > > ~~~You know, I've said all along that I realize what I'm saying is not > practical the way things are. I've said that I realize farmers have > fed grains to cattle for longer than any of us here have been alive. > I've said I realize it's all about the money, and I understand and > appreciate that, and that you are stuck the way things are at present. > And, I've said this is something you might want to start thinking > about and planning for, because people are just going to stop buying > you products eventually. If you can say what you said above, showing > SO little understanding of my meaning or intent, then I have little > hope for you. And, I can see I'm never going to get my point across > to you, so I won't be responding to your posts anymore. > > Carol > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Whether it's raw milk, free range chickens for egg production, beef, veggies, etc. there are people who believe in a certain way and you can not do a thing to change their minds. For every article I've read against feeding grain to cattle, there are 3 that advise it. Just my opinion, but when you stop all grains in a human's diet and all legumes, you are cutting out an enormous part of food. There are bad grains and good. Some have such great beneficial oils and nutrients like some of the heritage grains. I know that the Native Americans as well as other native groups in different parts of the world relied on grains for themselves and their animals way back when grains were not genetically developed. I think all the genetically altering of food and animals is what is ruining things. I know that there are vasts amounts of corn grown around here and it is supposedly genetically improved. I'm not talking about hybridization. Hybrids go back hundreds of years and some of that corn is great eating. But the field/feed corn that is being grown out here is altered to be bigger, fatter kernals and I just don't see that is beneficial since corn, for the most part, offers little or no nutritional value. It comes out the same way it goes in with almost all animals, including humans. It's just not very well digested. Now maybe when corn was first discovered and not altered, it had more value. But, from what I've seen, the only ones that digest it are the chickens. And, they go through the cow patties to dig out the corn. Anyway, some people think that they can eat as pure and clean as the driven snow, but it's not a practical way of life. I think it has to be one of the hardest things a person can do, especially if they are imposing this on children. K.C. Re: Grain Free Milking I understand ...some people are just sensitive. I am sure Carol is really a nice person and I told her so. I guess some folks just take emails SO personally and it is hard for them to have a discussion on chat groups. I think there is a learning curve for everyone on chat groups. And it's especially hard I have found when every single email hits your box. For some reason I found that to be more intrusive, more invading and hostile. My hackles went down considerably when i went to Digest format--weird I know. Anyway, I think Carol has the best of intentions, and she made good points, but so have all of you. Dialogue is a good thing, it makes everyone think and consider their methodology. But it's easier for some people to be offended by the written word. We've had others on this list like that, and if you can't adjust you end up leaving the list. Unfortunately I think Carol has left. It is a shame because I think she had some good things to say, as did everyone. Oh well, c'est la vie. I can't rescue the whole world.:-)> Hey, , just got to your post. Right-o.> > > > I do have a tendency to take it personally when the accusations are thrown> at me:-)> > > > In addition, the mis-information begs to be dis-abused. > > > > I will assume, for what it is worth, that the validity and the vehemence> presented in from someone who really does mean well and in her ignorance of> the realities of animal husbandry and her indicated health problems is> having problems keeping from attacking the solutions and not the problems. > > > > Something as simple comparing feeding some grain to a cow as giving them> hormones should have shut me up as being able to reason and carry one a> dialog.> > > > > > www.MajestyFarm.comPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Whether it's raw milk, free range chickens for egg production, beef, veggies, etc. there are people who believe in a certain way and you can not do a thing to change their minds. For every article I've read against feeding grain to cattle, there are 3 that advise it. Just my opinion, but when you stop all grains in a human's diet and all legumes, you are cutting out an enormous part of food. There are bad grains and good. Some have such great beneficial oils and nutrients like some of the heritage grains. I know that the Native Americans as well as other native groups in different parts of the world relied on grains for themselves and their animals way back when grains were not genetically developed. I think all the genetically altering of food and animals is what is ruining things. I know that there are vasts amounts of corn grown around here and it is supposedly genetically improved. I'm not talking about hybridization. Hybrids go back hundreds of years and some of that corn is great eating. But the field/feed corn that is being grown out here is altered to be bigger, fatter kernals and I just don't see that is beneficial since corn, for the most part, offers little or no nutritional value. It comes out the same way it goes in with almost all animals, including humans. It's just not very well digested. Now maybe when corn was first discovered and not altered, it had more value. But, from what I've seen, the only ones that digest it are the chickens. And, they go through the cow patties to dig out the corn. Anyway, some people think that they can eat as pure and clean as the driven snow, but it's not a practical way of life. I think it has to be one of the hardest things a person can do, especially if they are imposing this on children. K.C. Re: Grain Free Milking I understand ...some people are just sensitive. I am sure Carol is really a nice person and I told her so. I guess some folks just take emails SO personally and it is hard for them to have a discussion on chat groups. I think there is a learning curve for everyone on chat groups. And it's especially hard I have found when every single email hits your box. For some reason I found that to be more intrusive, more invading and hostile. My hackles went down considerably when i went to Digest format--weird I know. Anyway, I think Carol has the best of intentions, and she made good points, but so have all of you. Dialogue is a good thing, it makes everyone think and consider their methodology. But it's easier for some people to be offended by the written word. We've had others on this list like that, and if you can't adjust you end up leaving the list. Unfortunately I think Carol has left. It is a shame because I think she had some good things to say, as did everyone. Oh well, c'est la vie. I can't rescue the whole world.:-)> Hey, , just got to your post. Right-o.> > > > I do have a tendency to take it personally when the accusations are thrown> at me:-)> > > > In addition, the mis-information begs to be dis-abused. > > > > I will assume, for what it is worth, that the validity and the vehemence> presented in from someone who really does mean well and in her ignorance of> the realities of animal husbandry and her indicated health problems is> having problems keeping from attacking the solutions and not the problems. > > > > Something as simple comparing feeding some grain to a cow as giving them> hormones should have shut me up as being able to reason and carry one a> dialog.> > > > > > www.MajestyFarm.comPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Well, guys, so much for enjoying my “time for the computer” break. I have received 3 personal, nasty, and name-calling emails from Carol. I want to apologize to anyone who was offending by my strident tone in the discussion on ruminant health and grain; it seems ironic that I have been grass based for 8+ years and am defending feeding concentrates to milkers on a raw dairy list. Back to lurkdom for a while after tonight, so many kids to check, so many teats to milk www.MajestyFarm.com " If everybody minded their own business, " the Duchess said, in a hoarse growl, " the world would go around a great deal faster than it does. " ~ Carroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Hey Carol: Don't quit now! You have brought to light some intersting confessions. I will now question exactly what my raw milk supplier is feeding his cows. Some grains might be necessary but candy? donuts? Thank you for taking the heat! Terence > > I came here to try and determine if ingesting raw dairy products would agree with me more than ingesting pasteurized dairy products has been in the past, and to possibly find a source for raw milk. That has become a moot point. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Hey Carol: Don't quit now! You have brought to light some intersting confessions. I will now question exactly what my raw milk supplier is feeding his cows. Some grains might be necessary but candy? donuts? Thank you for taking the heat! Terence > > I came here to try and determine if ingesting raw dairy products would agree with me more than ingesting pasteurized dairy products has been in the past, and to possibly find a source for raw milk. That has become a moot point. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 , " If everybody minded their own business, " the Duchess said, in a hoarse growl, " the world would go around a great deal faster than it does. " ~ Carroll I think the above quote should be sent to every government office, Federal, State, and Municipal. To the lord of every feifdom and satrapy, from heads of departments to the lowest clerks. That crowd is on OUR payroll and they pretend to know more than we. To quote a line from a popular movie of the '80s " I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it any more!! " I am more than willing to live or die by my own judgement, to prosper or flounder. Just don't make me pay for someone else's bad judgement, or robbery. BIll Dunlap Let me drink raw milk and share it with friends it I want. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 For anyone interested there have been some excellent post of the WAPF chapter leaders group on this subject. I will ask permission to send the info to anyone who would like it. www.MajestyFarm.com Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice. Paine > > In addition, the mis-information begs to be dis-abused. > > > > I will assume, for what it is worth, that the validity and the vehemence > presented in from someone who really does mean well and in her ignorance of > the realities of animal husbandry and her indicated health problems is > having problems keeping from attacking the solutions and not the problems. > > > > Something as simple comparing feeding some grain to a cow as giving them > hormones should have shut me up as being able to reason and carry one a > dialog. > > > > > > www.MajestyFarm.com PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 For anyone interested there have been some excellent post of the WAPF chapter leaders group on this subject. I will ask permission to send the info to anyone who would like it. www.MajestyFarm.com Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice. Paine > > In addition, the mis-information begs to be dis-abused. > > > > I will assume, for what it is worth, that the validity and the vehemence > presented in from someone who really does mean well and in her ignorance of > the realities of animal husbandry and her indicated health problems is > having problems keeping from attacking the solutions and not the problems. > > > > Something as simple comparing feeding some grain to a cow as giving them > hormones should have shut me up as being able to reason and carry one a > dialog. > > > > > > www.MajestyFarm.com PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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