Re: Meat, was Grains Good as Gold

[Guest guest]

At 12:26 PM 1/26/2004, you wrote:

>(As for pigs, I have no idea! They are advertising " weaner pigs "

>at the grocery store for $40, if I liked pork I'd be tempted to

>get one and use it as a garbage disposal for a year. I knew a

>guy who collected restaurant scraps and raised hogs with

>the scraps ...)

we paid 85$ for each of our piglets when we bought them last year, though

they're organic and heritage breed. still, the best i could find was $70 -

pigs were short last year.

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[Guest guest]

At 09:11 AM 1/26/04 -0800, Heidi wrote:

>Hmm ... I don't know about pork and lamb. I suspect part of it

>may have to do with the size of the animal. Also how much

>fat is on it. The steer I *used* to get had about 2 " of fat all

>over the outside ... which they threw out unless you asked

>specifically for it. Also they toss most of the bones, and the

>kidney fat (which is part of the hanging weight). So I think

>the loss was quite a bit higher.

I did manage to pick up *some* soup bones and a few organs (mostly from the

pork) on both the pork and the lamb. The lamb guy was terribly

apologetic about it and offered to make a special trip up to bring me more.

Didn't get squat on the beef as far as either bones or organ meats, even

though I'd been promised such.

>Also, were you paying hanging weight or " on the hoof "

>weight? I was surprised at how much of the animal

>weight consisted of internal organs and hide.

I thought hanging weight and on the hoof were the same thing. What's the

difference? Everything I've gotten so far has been based on hanging

weight, but a goat I've ordered will be " on the hoof " .

>But I should also say that the beef I got was not " certified

>organic " or anything like that. The farmers who are

>getting certified etc. get a premium price. But there are

>also a lot of people who just keep a few cattle on

>a patch of grass -- there may be issues with mineral

>content etc. but for sure they are not factory farmed.

Nothing I've gotten has been certified organic, but it's all 100% grass-fed.

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

At 09:26 AM 1/26/04 -0800, Heidi wrote:

>Also, on meat prices .... I've also heard they

>went way up recently. Our distributor said the

>usual price has been $1.85 " forever " , for hanging

>weight (that includes their cutting fee, I think). But

>last fall it went up to $2.65, because of the BSE

>thing and imports being cut from Canada. The

>farmer I bought from didn't raise his price (and

>in general, old steer go for less?). But I'm not sure

>what is going to happen with the beef market, which

>is why I hedged the market (bought calves).

All in all, I still made out pretty well on the beef, though. That

averaged out to about $4.60/lb, and I got a lot of really good cuts out of

it. LOL - personally, I think the guy screwed up and gave me someone

else's " share " - one of the things I'd suspected was that he was playing

favorites with his distribution. Even with all the problems with him,

though, the one thing I DO trust is that they were, in fact, totally

grass-fed, I don't think he played any games with that at all. And hey,

where can you find a great Tbone or something for $4.60 a pound? Not at

the grocery store, that's for sure.

>(As for pigs, I have no idea! They are advertising " weaner pigs "

>at the grocery store for $40, if I liked pork I'd be tempted to

>get one and use it as a garbage disposal for a year. I knew a

>guy who collected restaurant scraps and raised hogs with

>the scraps ...)

I didn't used to eat a lot of pork, but after a pig and a quarter, with

another whole one on the way, I sure am now! (No, I don't really eat that

much, half of the pork was for my sissy.)

>

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

>

>I did manage to pick up *some* soup bones and a few organs (mostly from the

>pork) on both the pork and the lamb. The lamb guy was terribly

>apologetic about it and offered to make a special trip up to bring me more.

> Didn't get squat on the beef as far as either bones or organ meats, even

>though I'd been promised such.

You pretty much have to be there at butchering time,

it seems. They don't like handling the organs, and

when they do, they charge you for them. When

they do custom slaughter at a farm, they dump

all the organs/fat/etc. in a barrel and pay to have it

dumped. It would take a another barrel (a nice clean

one) to keep the organs in for you to pick up

later. So .... you come with a bunch of ice chests. The hide

they might charge you for though, because they sell that.

But they are not allowed (in this state anyway) to sell

the organs (or the meat -- it is YOUR meat and since it

isn't USDA inpsected it can't be sold).

I actually empathize with them on this ... the organs

can get full of manure etc. quite easily, it's hard to

keep everything separated and clean. It's not that

difficult to cut up a liver and heart and all that though.

>>But I should also say that the beef I got was not " certified

>>organic " or anything like that. The farmers who are

>>getting certified etc. get a premium price. But there are

>>also a lot of people who just keep a few cattle on

>>a patch of grass -- there may be issues with mineral

>>content etc. but for sure they are not factory farmed.

>

>Nothing I've gotten has been certified organic, but it's all 100% grass-fed.

Maybe prices are just different then ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

If you are talking meat, it is really important that you are

including how the meat was raised when determing either it's price or

its value.

As someone earlier eluded to, a grassfed cattleman works harder and

gets less weight in return, so, in the grassfed market, his beef is

going to be more expensive. At the same time, if he fails to sell his

beef to the grassfed market, the next outlet is the auction, where

buyers for conventional markets will not pay the true value for the

meat, will pay less per pound, and, of course, the beef will weigh

less than a grain-stuffed beef, so, he loses again.

On the other hand, a grain-fed beef doesn't really offer the consumer

the things that eating beef in a traditional diet are supposed to

offer. It is currently being said that ONE MOUTHFUL of GRAIN alters

the animals system so that anti-cancer elements are greatly

diminised. With three weeks of fattening - - a common practice among

cattle people who 'think' they are growing real grassfed beef, will

reduce those substances to nothing.

The latest information on the true value of grassfed is at

www.eatwild.com (or is it org?)

Sally knows all of this stuff, but often fails to emphasize it: Grass

is not 'magic' You can't wave a little over a cow and make either the

meat or the milk something special instantly. What you need is a beef

that is 'built' from sunlight and the food that grass makes from

sunlight and you need dairy that is derived similarly.

The introduction of grain into the animals digestive system alters

the pH to the point that it is simply no longer healthy. When it

isn't healthy, and when it is denied the food it evolved to eat, you

get products that are nutritionally substandard.

Worth saving .60 a pound on a quarter of beef?

I doubt it.

That's the understanding that I get when I read or listen to Sally

Fallon: eat grazed (grassfed) meats, dairy and eggs. I don't get 'eat

meat, eat dairy.' If you are eating the fat of conventionally raised

animals, man, you have just got to be loading yourself with the

toxins that are sequestered in that fat.

-Allan

[Guest guest]

At 12:41 PM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote:

> You pretty much have to be there at butchering time,

> it seems. They don't like handling the organs, and

> when they do, they charge you for them. When

> they do custom slaughter at a farm, they dump

> all the organs/fat/etc. in a barrel and pay to have it

> dumped. It would take a another barrel (a nice clean

> one) to keep the organs in for you to pick up

> later. So .... you come with a bunch of ice chests. The hide

> they might charge you for though, because they sell that.

> But they are not allowed (in this state anyway) to sell

> the organs (or the meat -- it is YOUR meat and since it

> isn't USDA inpsected it can't be sold).

Have you ever walked off with a hide? What did you do with it?

>>Nothing I've gotten has been certified organic, but it's all 100% grass-fed.

>

> Maybe prices are just different then ...

Hoo, yeah. Nothing like living around DC to raise your cost of living.

This actually reminds me of something else, though - I heard someone say at

some point that grass-fed beef is supposed to hang a week longer than

conventionally-raised. Why is that?

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

>This actually reminds me of something else, though - I heard someone say at

>some point that grass-fed beef is supposed to hang a week longer than

>conventionally-raised. Why is that?

Because grass-fed beef has much less intramuscular fat than feedlot

beef, it needs more time for tenderization.

Everyone needs to realize - - and I think the info we've been getting

about slaughterhouses and BSE brings this to light - - all slaughter

houses have an established buyer for EVERYTHING that comes off a cow.

If you take the organs, that's poundage that the butcher is losing.

If you want the hide, you have to be there on slaughter day. There is

also a hide fee. Don't ask me why, but you will pay them extra for

your own hide. Otherwise, it's going to another outlet, for cash, of

course.

I have even heard that there is a market for the content of the cow's

stomachs. Can someone remind me what this is for? (the patially

digested feed)

-Allan

[Guest guest]

>Have you ever walked off with a hide? What did you do with it?

I paid him $20 for it and took it to a tanner. Now I have a big

bunch of beautiful leather ... cost $200 for the tanning though,

it isn't cheap unless you do it yourself.

>>>Nothing I've gotten has been certified organic, but it's all 100% grass-fed.

>>

>> Maybe prices are just different then ...

>

>Hoo, yeah. Nothing like living around DC to raise your cost of living.

>

>

>This actually reminds me of something else, though - I heard someone say at

>some point that grass-fed beef is supposed to hang a week longer than

>conventionally-raised. Why is that?

Supposedly it is more tough. Hanging tenderizes it. I haven't

got a tough beef yet, but I also only eat Longhorn. They

very often aren't raised as " eating " beef (they are used in

rodeos etc) so they aren't optimized for yield or marbelling

or any of that, but they tend to be more tender than regular

beef. I have heard people complain that grass-fed meat

is too tough, but it hasn't happened to me yet.

The meat distributor maintains that grass-fed steer

should be fenced in for a few weeks even if they

are not grain-fed, to tenderize the meat. I suspect

they have more experience than me -- the one I got

had been in pasture til the day before, and I'm absolutely

sure there was no grain in the digestive tract. But a lot

of the steer grown around here are " hobby " steer

or are used to mow the grass more than for market.

As for price ... I wonder if you drove about 4 hours west ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>Everyone needs to realize - - and I think the info we've been getting

>about slaughterhouses and BSE brings this to light - - all slaughter

>houses have an established buyer for EVERYTHING that comes off a cow.

>If you take the organs, that's poundage that the butcher is losing.

>If you want the hide, you have to be there on slaughter day. There is

>also a hide fee. Don't ask me why, but you will pay them extra for

>your own hide. Otherwise, it's going to another outlet, for cash, of

>course.

That seems to be one of the differences between getting

meat from a " slaughterhouse " and " custom farm slaughter " .

The laws are very different, at least in Washington. The

custom guys are not *allowed* to sell the organs ... they

have to pay to have them disposed of. So they don't MIND

if you take them, they just don't want to do the work

of keeping them for you til you show up.

The hide they do sell ... current value, I was told, was $20.

And I gave him a tip too, for being nice.

But the big outfits have everything presold, so you can't

get the organs. Given the speed and how many steer

they run through those big places though, I think

I trust the custom slaughter guys more (they come out

to the farm with a big truck and butcher the steer

in the field). But, to SELL meat, you have to run it through

the bigger slaughterhouses so it is inspected (though with

the stuff coming out about inspection, it seems like

that is kind of a joke).

Might be different in other states though.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

At 02:14 PM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote:

> I paid him $20 for it and took it to a tanner. Now I have a big

> bunch of beautiful leather ... cost $200 for the tanning though,

> it isn't cheap unless you do it yourself.

Ahh, but now you get all the fun of figuring out what to do with that bunch

of beautiful leather.

> The meat distributor maintains that grass-fed steer

> should be fenced in for a few weeks even if they

> are not grain-fed, to tenderize the meat. I suspect

> they have more experience than me -- the one I got

> had been in pasture til the day before, and I'm absolutely

> sure there was no grain in the digestive tract. But a lot

> " " steer

> or are used to mow the grass more than for market.

Well, I've gotten lazy, too, and have been plopping some of the less tender

cuts into some raw milk to soak for a while before cooking. :-D

>

> As for price ... I wonder if you drove about 4 hours west ...

Eh, I still think I got pretty good deals, price-wise (arguments with the

one guy aside) - certainly in comparison with conventional meat. Well,

okay, the pork was a little pricey compared to " standard " prices, but I

know it's good, so I don't mind. And between the freezer full of meat,

my raw dairy pickups and my sprouting frenzies, I never have to go to the

grocery store!

Besides, someday I'll end up on some little farmlet of my own ...

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

>This actually reminds me of something else, though - I heard someone say at

some point that grass-fed beef is supposed to hang a week longer than

conventionally-raised. Why is that?

The very lean meat from pastured cattle is tougher than grain-fatten beef, so

hanging long tenderizes it better - why do you think they boast of

grain-fattened beef. The longer hanging time is a problem for the butcher

because it takes more space in his freezer. The pastured beef I have had was

only hung for two weeks, but it would have been nice to let it hang longer.

Peace,

Kris , gardening in harmony with nature in northwest Ohio

http://home.woh.rr.com/billkrisjohnson/

[Guest guest]

>I have even heard that there is a market for the content of the cow's

>stomachs. Can someone remind me what this is for? (the patially

>digested feed)

dog food? i feed a commercial raw food that contains " peck " which is some

part of one of the stomachs. it's supposed to be rich in vits and mins.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

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heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:10:42 -0500

Allan Balliett <igg@...> wrote:

>I have even heard that there is a market for the content of the cow's

>stomachs. Can someone remind me what this is for? (the patially

>digested feed)

>

>-Allan

If I remember correctly, some Indians used to eat this along with the

stomach

Superhero Bush Rescues Marriage

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[Guest guest]

>. And between the freezer full of meat,

>my raw dairy pickups and my sprouting frenzies, I never have to go to the

>grocery store!

THAT is the part I really like! I buy rice and beans in bulk, the freezer

is packed, so all I have to get is milk and vegies at the store (and

if I had a garden and a goat, I wouldn't even have to do that ...).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Well, I still have to go to the store SOMETIMES ... for soap and toilet

paper. :-D

At 06:10 PM 1/26/04 -0800, you wrote:

>

>> And between the freezer full of meat,

>>my raw dairy pickups and my sprouting frenzies, I never have to go to the

>>

>

> THAT is the part I really like! I buy rice and beans in bulk, the freezer

> is packed, so all I have to get is milk and vegies at the store (and

> if I had a garden and a goat, I wouldn't even have to do that ...).

>

> -- Heidi

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.