Re: manufacturing soil (was Fuel oil from crops vs. sustainable agriculture)

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>i would be interested in any comments on his

>products to " manufacture " healthy soil. btw - he uses Mycorrhizal Fungi,

>which someone else mentioned is a " living " soil enhancer.

OK, let me clarify. I'm talking about manufacturing fertile, healthy soil

from scratch, not aiding natural processes in the soil. We already know to

add manure, certain kinds of clay, and various other amendments, all

provided conditions are appropriate, but compared to manufacturing

something from scratch all on our own, or even anything remotely close to

it, that's doing practically nothing.

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[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

> OK, let me clarify. I'm talking about manufacturing fertile, healthy

> soil from scratch, not aiding natural processes in the soil. We

> already know to add manure, certain kinds of clay, and various other

> amendments, all provided conditions are appropriate, but compared to

> manufacturing something from scratch all on our own, or even anything

> remotely close to it, that's doing practically nothing.

Why does it matter? We can't manufacture wood from scratch, but we can

still get enough wood to mass-produce furniture by aiding natural

processes in the soil, which is every bit as good. If we can culture

vast quantities of microorganisms that increase soil fertility, who

cares whether we can duplicate it in a test tube?

[Guest guest]

>> OK, let me clarify. I'm talking about manufacturing fertile, healthy

>> soil from scratch, not aiding natural processes in the soil. We

>> already know to add manure, certain kinds of clay, and various other

>> amendments, all provided conditions are appropriate, but compared to

>> manufacturing something from scratch all on our own, or even anything

>> remotely close to it, that's doing practically nothing

Actually a lot of the current " mass manufacturing " processes now

are done with micro-organisms ... I think they are using bacteria

to produce insulin now, for instance. And silkworms mass-manufacture

silk, and have done so for a long time. Bio-manufacture is pretty

easy and cheap ... no minimum wage on buggies and they reproduce

readily ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

-

>Why does it matter?

Simply because it's what we were talking about.

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[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>Actually a lot of the current " mass manufacturing " processes now

>are done with micro-organisms ...

OK, fair point, but we're now able to make some organisms produce some

single compounds. Fertile soil is an entire ecosystem unto itself -- it's

a very, very complex compound substance. Assuming technology proceeds

apace it'll eventually be in our power to produce, but not within the next

couple generations.

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[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

> -

>> Why does it matter?

>

> Simply because it's what we were talking about.

As far as I can tell, you're the only one who was talking about it. The

original question, IIRC, was whether we could mass-produce fertile soil.

Then, under your guidance, it morphed into a question of whether we

could manufacture it, with you narrowing down the definition (I see a

pattern here) of " manufacture " to exclude anything involving the use of

certain naturally-occurring processes.

Supposing that you're on the same page as everyone else, though, I'm

still curious as to why you would be talking about it. I don't see why

this question is at all meaningful. What matters is whether we can

produce good soil efficiently and in large quantities using all

available tools, not whether we can produce it with some arbitrary limit

on the type of tools we can use.

[Guest guest]

---Just when I thot things were getting boring(not purky like

yesterday) a good topic comes around. We been making soil out here

the last seven seasons and next year we're going to add fungi and

other beneficials to the crop residue to produce it even faster.

Don't know how fast though. Need more testing. Dennis

In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote:

> -

>

> >Why does it matter?

>

> Simply because it's what we were talking about.

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

>---Just when I thot things were getting boring(not purky like

>yesterday) a good topic comes around. We been making soil out here

>the last seven seasons and next year we're going to add fungi and

>other beneficials to the crop residue to produce it even faster.

>Don't know how fast though. Need more testing. Dennis

So how fast can you produce it? What are the raw materials?

Can it be done on a mass scale?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

---

Heidi those are good questions. Just using livestock, crop residue

and the little critters already in healthy soil. Can mass produce in

a sense but not in a bldg. It's happening in the field with crop

residue and moisture as raw material when soil temperature is

favorable. Essentially composting in the field. Course the nutrients

taken out with the harvest would need consideration. Not sure what

the net gain or loss of nutrients is. Dennis

In , Heidi Schuppenhauer

<heidis@t...> wrote:

>

> >---Just when I thot things were getting boring(not purky like

> >yesterday) a good topic comes around. We been making soil out

here

> >the last seven seasons and next year we're going to add fungi and

> >other beneficials to the crop residue to produce it even faster.

> >Don't know how fast though. Need more testing. Dennis

>

> So how fast can you produce it? What are the raw materials?

> Can it be done on a mass scale?

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>Heidi those are good questions. Just using livestock, crop residue

>and the little critters already in healthy soil. Can mass produce in

>a sense but not in a bldg. It's happening in the field with crop

>residue and moisture as raw material when soil temperature is

>favorable. Essentially composting in the field. Course the nutrients

>taken out with the harvest would need consideration. Not sure what

>the net gain or loss of nutrients is. Dennis

Thanks! That sounds like what I heard they are doing in India.

They are gaining topsoil at a nice rate, and growing good crops,

using composting techniques.

In one book I read, a person digs a trench between the rows

of plants and buries garbage there as one goes -- a combination

of garbage disposal and soil renewal in one. Sounds awfully

efficient on both counts.

-- Heidi