Re: Fuel oil from crops vs. sustainable agriculture (was ...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/2/04 11:58:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> In fact, I've just

> thought of another reason why the soil fertility argument is bogus. If

> you just extract the refined oil and compost the rest, there's no loss

> of fertility. Everything except the oil, which is just carbon, hydrogen,

> oxygen, and solar energy, goes right back into the soil.

That's exactly what I said several posts ago, but unfortunately, when

responded that the oil was the most " energy-dense, " it escaped me that none of

the energy actually comes from the soil.

> By the way, does anyone here actually know what it is that makes soil

> fertile?

It's rather complex, and it depends on your goals. If you want high yield,

nitrogen will usually do the trick, and sometimes P and K, so in general NPK

fertilizers are used. However, Albrecht has an enormous body of work showing

that if your goal is healthy and nutritious plants, it's much more complex. The

correct soil pH is important (usually slightly acidic), the breed of plant,

the organic matter content of the soil, and organisms are all important (that

convert elements into usable forms).

That said, I think is wrong that you can't " manufacture " healthy soil.

We perhaps haven't worked it out yet, but there's no reason that I see that

you can't breed certain organisms like you breed worms in a worm bin. Also,

even if you do it in closed doors, I'm sure the insects will find their way.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>That said, I think is wrong that you can't " manufacture " healthy soil.

>We perhaps haven't worked it out yet, but there's no reason that I see that

>you can't breed certain organisms like you breed worms in a worm bin. Also,

>even if you do it in closed doors, I'm sure the insects will find their way.

I didn't say it's physically impossible, just that it's not possible with

present technology and that science and technology would have to advance

enormously to do it. (Of course, it partly depends on what you mean by

" manufacture " , since you're talking about insects.)

-

[Guest guest]

The horticulture industry has been breeding and packaging for sell to the

landscape industry mycorrhiza for inoculating the roots of plants. It seems

these naturally occuring fungi are in the soils (or should be) and populate

roots in a symbiotic relationship with the plants that aid them in the uptake of

nutrients. In my experience transplanted trees were more likely to survive

(especially weak trees/or in adverse conditions) when properly inoculated. I

wonder if there is any natural way to encourage mycorrhizal action in the soil?

Amy Waters

Re: Fuel oil from crops vs. sustainable

agriculture (was ...

Chris-

>That said, I think is wrong that you can't " manufacture " healthy soil.

>We perhaps haven't worked it out yet, but there's no reason that I see that

>you can't breed certain organisms like you breed worms in a worm bin. Also,

>even if you do it in closed doors, I'm sure the insects will find their way.

I didn't say it's physically impossible, just that it's not possible with

present technology and that science and technology would have to advance

enormously to do it. (Of course, it partly depends on what you mean by

" manufacture " , since you're talking about insects.)

-