Re: Chris/real life can be better exercise

February 7, 2004

>

> From: " givemeamomenttothink " <deweyli@...>

> Reply-

> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:15:45 -0000

>

> Subject: Re: Chris/real life can be better exercise

>

>> The other is that body builders in general, work on developing big

>> muscles, but you can develop big muscles without getting very

> strong.

>

> How does that happen? Don't they gain strength as they get bigger

> and increase their weights?

Well, I would not consider myself an expert on this by any means, but I've

read a fair number of articles and posts by people who are, so here goes my

best shot.

I think that anyone who is a beginner, and trains in a way primarily

intended to build muscle, and not strength (i.e. bodybuilding) will

definitely get stronger. However, one trains differently for bodybuilding

and for developing limit strength, and you can indeed build very large

muscles without becoming exceedingly strong. If the size of muscles were the

key, wouldn't Arnold Schwarzenegger (sp?) be one of the strongest people in

the world?

Certainly, if you strive to always increase the weight, you will get

stronger. But it's my impression that there are many people who really care

only about looking good, and don't really emphasize that aspect of the

training, don't increase the weight much, do lots of reps till it burns, and

get large muscles. Whereas you can do lower rep sets, NOT to failure, with

heavier and heavier weights, and grow much stronger without developing huge

muscles.

> How can you have such large muscles,

> yet not have much strength? If they don't have much strength, how

> can they lift so much weight?

>

? Many people with very large muscles do not lift that much weight. If they

do, then they are strong, by definition. I never said that people who have

large muscles are not strong. I said that people with large muscles are not

necessarily strong.

>

>> Becoming strong is something that you have to work on, and you

> don't need to

>> have big muscles to do it.

>

> How can you do this? I definitely don't want big muscles, but I

> would like to improve my strength. I lift weights at the gym 3x's a

> week. Is this not helpful in gaining strength?

I don't think I've implied that lifting weights is not helpful in gaining

strength!

>Is there something

> else I can do, or that I can add to lifting weights, that would be

> helpful?

>

> Robin L.

>

Well, sure...there are lots of things. But lifting weights is good. From

what I've read, I'd recommend doing 5-6 reps maximum, NOT to failure - a

couple of reps short of it - and work on increasing the weight when you can.

While there is lots of hype in the Dragondoor literature, I'd recommend

looking at Pavel Tsatsouline's 'Power to the People', which is pretty good

at describing routines for developing strength and not bulk (although he

does describe how to add more muscle if that is your goal).

There are other ways of developing 'whole body' strength. Kettebells will

definitely help you there, in addition to being more fun than traditional

weight training (in my opinion). And there are old time strength training

exercises like farmer's walks - carrying a heavy object in each hand and

walking with it, etc. Another very good exercise that I've done with

kettlebells is called the 'Turkish Getup'. In reality it's quite simple,

though there are variants of it. You lie down and press a weight with one

hand. Then you get up. And then you get back down.

But I'd definitely recommend starting with a copy of Pavel's book for a good

explanation of how you can develop strength without building lots of muscle.

February 7, 2004

> > I don't know about that, Chris. I witnessed a big muscular body builder

> > type that could have doubled for Arnold in one of the Terminator movies

> get

> > his butt kicked in arm wrestling by a skinny little farm boy who has never

> > seen the inside of the gym.

>

>I believe it. I have no desire to attain the body of a professional body

>builder, and I doubt they can be considered paragons of fitness.

>

>Personally, I do train in large part to gain muscle mass right now, but I'm

>tiny. I don't want to keep gaining forever. But gaining some, I look

>better,

>feel better, have better blood sugar and hormone stability, and my limbs fall

>asleep less often. I'd like to maybe make it to 180 pounds, but other than

>that, I'm mostly interested in gaining power, not mass. I want my muscle

>to be

>efficient and useful, not there for looks.

>

>That said, at the gym, or using a kettlebell, I can tailor my workout to

>attain those goals, whereas on a farm what I achieve is dictated by my

>work, not

>my desires. And I don't need to spend 10 hours a day in the gym to achieve

>them either.

>

>Chris

Point made and accepted.

>

February 7, 2004

Sheryl,

I also use kettlebells and being the generous person that I am, if you buy

some and don't like them, I'll buy them from you at 50 cents on the dollar.

Sometimes I'm just too nice for my own good.

>Great explantion Gene,

>

>I think they are a great exercise tool. I would love to try them. . .but

>what if you did't like them. Then you would have all that money invested.

>

>Sheryl

>

>Gene Schwartz <implode7@...> wrote:

>Kettlebells are these iron balls with handles on top. A little like

>dumbbells, but the weight distribution is different, which makes them better

>for ballistic type exercises. what is great about them is that you can

>develop workouts with them that are great for cardiovascular health and

>endurance, and to some degree, strength. For pure strength, probably

>barbells and dumbbells are better, because they allow for incremental

>increases in weight, while (at least in America) kettlebells come in fixed

>weights. Although there is way too much hype mixed in, you can read about

>them more at www.dragondoor.com, and I (and I'm sure) would be glad

>to answer any specific questions you may have.

>

>From: Sheryl

>Reply-

>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:42:09 -0800 (PST)

>

>Subject: Re: Chris/real life can be better exercise

>

>Hey I have never heard of Kettlebells. What are they?

>

>Sheryl

>

>ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote:

>In a message dated 2/6/04 10:47:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>dovedesignsrus@... writes:

>

> > have you worked on a farm before?

>

>Sheryl,

>

>You raise good points, and I'm sure farming can lead to a fantastic body

>over

>time. (And yes, I've worked on a farm before.) And it's probably

>true that you can continue getting stronger to some degree by modifying how

>you do your work. But in a gym or with my kettlebells, I can tailor my

>workout

>to exactly what I want, I can achieve results *much* faster with *much* less

>time spent, and I'm quite sure I could, over time, progress more at the gym

>than

>on a farm.

>

>In order to replace my current exercise regimen, I'd basically have to get a

>full-time job at a farm for the rest of my life, which I'm not interested in

>doing. Now, I can go to school full-time, work part-time at a job that

>pays me two or three times what I'd get as a field hand, and still achieve

>the

>kind of body I want.

>

>Chris

>

February 7, 2004

--- In , Gene Schwartz

> > How can you do this? I definitely don't want big muscles, but I

> > would like to improve my strength. I lift weights at the gym

3x's a

> > week. Is this not helpful in gaining strength?

>

> I don't think I've implied that lifting weights is not helpful in

gaining

> strength!

I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way. I was just wondering, from

what you said, if lifting weights is not the best way to go about

gaining strength.

Thank you for all your information.

Robin L.

February 7, 2004

Givemeamomenttothink,

This is why there is an expression of " Muscle Bound "

There is a difference from a large pumped up muscle and a functional muscle.

A functional muscles person will move gracefully and with precision and

speed.

A bulky pumped up muscle frame where the emphasis is looks not functional

strength is uncoordinated, no where near as explosive ect as a functional

strength person.

Now Arnold for example sure he massive and yes he is STRONG. I mean he slap

u probably break your neck.

However for his SIZE he is quite weak.

_____

From: givemeamomenttothink [mailto:deweyli@...]

Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2004 5:16 AM

Subject: Re: Chris/real life can be better exercise

>The other is that body builders in general, work on developing big

> muscles, but you can develop big muscles without getting very

strong.

How does that happen? Don't they gain strength as they get bigger

and increase their weights? How can you have such large muscles,

yet not have much strength? If they don't have much strength, how

can they lift so much weight?

> Becoming strong is something that you have to work on, and you

don't need to

> have big muscles to do it.

How can you do this? I definitely don't want big muscles, but I

would like to improve my strength. I lift weights at the gym 3x's a

week. Is this not helpful in gaining strength? Is there something

else I can do, or that I can add to lifting weights, that would be

helpful?

Robin L.

February 7, 2004

In a message dated 2/7/04 4:13:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

implode7@... writes:

Robin wrote:

> >How does that happen? Don't they gain strength as they get bigger

> >and increase their weights?

Muscle mass is increased by incorporating more protein into muscle cells.

Strength can be gained without as much gain in muscle mass by forming more

neuro-muscular junctions per nerve. Each nerve innervates many, many, many

muscle

cells, but many muscle cells just don't have a nerve innervating them.

Chris

February 7, 2004

In a message dated 2/7/04 5:59:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> A bulky pumped up muscle frame where the emphasis is looks not functional

> strength is uncoordinated, no where near as explosive ect as a functional

> strength person.

I agree, but to an extent, there's no conflict. As long as you emphasize

velocity and explosiveness in your training, you can also train to put on muscle

mass. Beyond a certain point, you can't retain gracefullnes, flexibility, and

velocity, but you can retain all that while having *much* more muscle mass

than the average guy.

I train mostly for health, followed by strength, followed by looks, but those

are very close seconds and thirds. I recently started incorporating an

intense ab regimen into my workout. It doesn't have a whole lot of functional

benefit; I just look better with my shirt off. That seems a good enough reason

to

me. And it doesn't decrease my strength in any way.

Chris

February 7, 2004

,

That is a very nice offer. I would love to try them, but, I have a large

number of free weights and will have to consider them with great thought.

Best

Sheryl

Long <longc@...> wrote:

Sheryl,

I also use kettlebells and being the generous person that I am, if you buy

some and don't like them, I'll buy them from you at 50 cents on the dollar.

Sometimes I'm just too nice for my own good.

>Great explantion Gene,

>

>I think they are a great exercise tool. I would love to try them. . .but

>what if you did't like them. Then you would have all that money invested.

>

>Sheryl

>

>Gene Schwartz wrote: