RE: new laws for qld and kids

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/31/04 3:18:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> No age was specified but atm legal age to work is classed as 16 so I guess

> it would be 12 or 13 now?

Why shouldn't a 13 year old be able to work? In the US, the legal age to

work is 14, but you have to get a permit and follow certain laws (such as

restrictions on how many hours you can work during the school year, and more

general

restrictions for the summer), but child labor laws don't apply to farms, so

anyone of any age can work on a farm for about half minimum wage.

I got my first job when I was 13 working blueberry picking, where I made $3 a

bucket (which took about an hour to pick). Then I got promoted to " field

hand " and got paid $3.50 an hour, working a 12-hour shift.

I was so excited to have my own money! I saved a lot, had a lot of spending

money, and finally bought a quality CD player, since I was still using

casettes. I'd consider it malicious for anyone to try to take that rewarding

opportunity away from me.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Yes but the point is they are going to MAKE you. You have no choice.

If you want to go and play with u mates u cant because the gvnmt goes. Nup

sorry u got to work.

The main isu eis though soon this is going to open up you will be working as

soon as u r able to talk eventually till the day u drop dead for the man

_____

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2004 2:39 AM

Subject: Re: new laws for qld and kids

In a message dated 1/31/04 3:18:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> No age was specified but atm legal age to work is classed as 16 so I guess

> it would be 12 or 13 now?

Why shouldn't a 13 year old be able to work? In the US, the legal age to

work is 14, but you have to get a permit and follow certain laws (such as

restrictions on how many hours you can work during the school year, and more

general

restrictions for the summer), but child labor laws don't apply to farms, so

anyone of any age can work on a farm for about half minimum wage.

I got my first job when I was 13 working blueberry picking, where I made $3

a

bucket (which took about an hour to pick). Then I got promoted to " field

hand " and got paid $3.50 an hour, working a 12-hour shift.

I was so excited to have my own money! I saved a lot, had a lot of spending

money, and finally bought a quality CD player, since I was still using

casettes. I'd consider it malicious for anyone to try to take that

rewarding

opportunity away from me.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/31/04 4:45:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> Yes but the point is they are going to MAKE you. You have no choice.

Who is?

]

> If you want to go and play with u mates u cant because the gvnmt goes. Nup

> sorry u got to work.

Where is this, in Austrailia? Are you serious?

> The main isu eis though soon this is going to open up you will be working

> as

> soon as u r able to talk eventually till the day u drop dead for the man

I don't see what age has to do with anything. That sounds like a

horrendously despicable violation of human rights for any age. Is this actually

happening, or are there just a minority group advocating it?

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/04 4:58:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> I think they are trying to raise the retire age because superannuation here

> is a big ass CON and its not working so they are trying to avoid pensios for

> elderly by trying to convince them to keep working and never have a life.

It's probably because you have a similarly horrendous system of government

retirement accounts to us, which are going to go completely bankrupt in a couple

decades if they don't raise the retirement age. If they do, that doesn't

mean you can't retire early; it just means you can't get your government

retirement payoff-- something that shouldn't exist in the first place.

> If your child isn't learning, well make sure they will be earning.

How on earth are they supposed to enforce this? Don't you have the legal

right to quit your job in Austrailia? Don't you have the right to choose your

own

job? What are they going to do if the child doesn't get a job? Does the

government assign them a job, or do they simply require them to find one? What

if the child doesn't go? Do they throw her or him in prison?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Yes this is Australia, queenslands new motto at the moment to " keep qld

moving "

its bloody stupid ( as is raising the retirement age )

I think they are trying to raise the retire age because superannuation here

is a big ass CON and its not working so they are trying to avoid pensios for

elderly by trying to convince them to keep working and never have a life.

Its currently being put through the legislation.

If your child isn't learning, well make sure they will be earning.

Way to go premier beattie!

speaking of him I just had to fill out affidavit because he blatantly lied

to a group of us as to why raw milk is to be completely banned. ( well

closing the holes in the law to stop cow share ect ect )

_____

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

Sent: Monday, 2 February 2004 4:37 AM

Subject: Re: new laws for qld and kids

In a message dated 1/31/04 4:45:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> Yes but the point is they are going to MAKE you. You have no choice.

Who is?

]

> If you want to go and play with u mates u cant because the gvnmt goes. Nup

> sorry u got to work.

Where is this, in Austrailia? Are you serious?

> The main isu eis though soon this is going to open up you will be working

> as

> soon as u r able to talk eventually till the day u drop dead for the man

I don't see what age has to do with anything. That sounds like a

horrendously despicable violation of human rights for any age. Is this

actually

happening, or are there just a minority group advocating it?

Chris

[Guest guest]

The biggest problem with our Social Security system is not the age of the

retirees. It's the idiots in Washington who keep dipping their filthy hands

into it.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

In a message dated 2/1/04 4:58:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> I think they are trying to raise the retire age because superannuation

here

> is a big ass CON and its not working so they are trying to avoid pensios

for

> elderly by trying to convince them to keep working and never have a life.

It's probably because you have a similarly horrendous system of government

retirement accounts to us, which are going to go completely bankrupt in a

couple

decades if they don't raise the retirement age. If they do, that doesn't

mean you can't retire early; it just means you can't get your government

retirement payoff-- something that shouldn't exist in the first place.

> If your child isn't learning, well make sure they will be earning.

How on earth are they supposed to enforce this? Don't you have the legal

right to quit your job in Austrailia? Don't you have the right to choose

your own

job? What are they going to do if the child doesn't get a job? Does the

government assign them a job, or do they simply require them to find one?

What

if the child doesn't go? Do they throw her or him in prison?

Chris

[Guest guest]

The other thing that amazes me is the amount of tax and fees taken out of

superannuation.

It's a pretty steep amount and considering every employee for a company

across the country is required to have it.

( and they TRY to get you to add " extra " in to. Now why would you do that

if it gets fees and taxes for god sake after your wage has ALREADY been

taxed enough? )

Governments are fine crazy and tax crazy now. Its really spiralled out of

control. ( then they spend the money on the most USELESS shit u ever see )

_____

From: Judith Alta [mailto:jaltak@...]

Sent: Monday, 2 February 2004 9:07 AM

Subject: RE: new laws for qld and kids

The biggest problem with our Social Security system is not the age of the

retirees. It's the idiots in Washington who keep dipping their filthy hands

into it.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

In a message dated 2/1/04 4:58:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> I think they are trying to raise the retire age because superannuation

here

> is a big ass CON and its not working so they are trying to avoid pensios

for

> elderly by trying to convince them to keep working and never have a life.

It's probably because you have a similarly horrendous system of government

retirement accounts to us, which are going to go completely bankrupt in a

couple

decades if they don't raise the retirement age. If they do, that doesn't

mean you can't retire early; it just means you can't get your government

retirement payoff-- something that shouldn't exist in the first place.

> If your child isn't learning, well make sure they will be earning.

How on earth are they supposed to enforce this? Don't you have the legal

right to quit your job in Austrailia? Don't you have the right to choose

your own

job? What are they going to do if the child doesn't get a job? Does the

government assign them a job, or do they simply require them to find one?

What

if the child doesn't go? Do they throw her or him in prison?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Yes the superannuation is so messed up. Really what do these ppl think

behind closed doors?

Must be all them preservatives in their food. :-)

Not sure how they will enforce it. You do have a legal right to quit your

job but u will suffer because of it.

( as in you will get a diminished fortnightly payment from unemployment to

survive on and find new work ect )

Currently you are sometimes assigned a job from these new employment

agencies ( atleast a interview )

So for example if you are of able body and they say to you there is a

factory job packing boxes we are sending you to for a interview

Because we have to get u off unemployment no matter what. You have to attend

and do your best in the interview ( they actually follow up and grill the

employer as to how you went in the interview ) if you are shown to have not

giving your all in the interview your payments are severed then u have to go

hunt and steal for food.

An example is they tried to send me off as a brickies labourer( I do sales )

even though I had a certificate showing physical sports injury and this is

why I currently am now working. I had to go get ANOTHER certificate to not

attend interview/get job.

So while you still do have a choice ect you also don't in certain

times/circumstances.

I was at a job network meeting once with a couple of other guys. There was a

gentleman there 52 years old. HE had been state manager of various companies

over his lifetime. Once again he is trying to procure a job as state manager

ect. He told me some of the jobs they kept sending him to for interview.

( general retail sales lacky was 1 ) each time he went to these interviews

he performed well as asked and was always declined job because of his

overqualification and past work history and they were getting upset with him

thinking he was " throwing " his interviews.

At the moment we are waiting to hear what this bill will entail in its

entirety. At a good guess though like work fro the dole they will no doubt

assign a child into some slavery job ( I bet mcdonalds ears have pricked up

over this , and KFC ect )

I reckon they will be shafted into cheap retail store roles packin shelves

ect, workin at maccas.

But that is guessing at the moment.

Australia LOVES fining people financially to fill it scoffers in any way

possible. I have no doubt if a child rebels they would most likely fine the

parents or something to try and get them into order.

_____

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

Sent: Monday, 2 February 2004 8:52 AM

Subject: Re: new laws for qld and kids

In a message dated 2/1/04 4:58:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> I think they are trying to raise the retire age because superannuation

here

> is a big ass CON and its not working so they are trying to avoid pensios

for

> elderly by trying to convince them to keep working and never have a life.

It's probably because you have a similarly horrendous system of government

retirement accounts to us, which are going to go completely bankrupt in a

couple

decades if they don't raise the retirement age. If they do, that doesn't

mean you can't retire early; it just means you can't get your government

retirement payoff-- something that shouldn't exist in the first place.

> If your child isn't learning, well make sure they will be earning.

How on earth are they supposed to enforce this? Don't you have the legal

right to quit your job in Austrailia? Don't you have the right to choose

your own

job? What are they going to do if the child doesn't get a job? Does the

government assign them a job, or do they simply require them to find one?

What

if the child doesn't go? Do they throw her or him in prison?

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/04 6:07:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jaltak@... writes:

> The biggest problem with our Social Security system is not the age of the

> retirees. It's the idiots in Washington who keep dipping their filthy hands

> into it.

Judith,

I think that sufficiently showed that age is the major problem, but

even if it weren't, that doesn't contradict what I said. I didn't say there

was an innate problem with the age per se, but rather that it is an

unsupportable system that is about to go bankrupt, and raising the age is one

mechanism to

increase the revenue to payout ratio.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

> Not sure how they will enforce it. You do have a legal right to quit your

> job but u will suffer because of it.

> ( as in you will get a diminished fortnightly payment from unemployment to

> survive on and find new work ect )

Huh? Does a 9-year-old who is in school get an unemployment payment from the

government? If not, how is it some sort of suffering for her or him to not

get one when not in school?

> Currently you are sometimes assigned a job from these new employment

> agencies ( atleast a interview )

Do you mean to continue receiving the unemployment payment?

> So for example if you are of able body and they say to you there is a

> factory job packing boxes we are sending you to for a interview

>

> Because we have to get u off unemployment no matter what. You have to attend

> and do your best in the interview ( they actually follow up and grill the

> employer as to how you went in the interview ) if you are shown to have not

> giving your all in the interview your payments are severed then u have to go

> hunt and steal for food.

What's wrong with that?

> An example is they tried to send me off as a brickies labourer( I do sales

> )

> even though I had a certificate showing physical sports injury and this is

> why I currently am now working. I had to go get ANOTHER certificate to not

> attend interview/get job.

Why? Was the first one expired? No one stays injured forever, so it would

make sense they'd want to be guaranteed you were still injured.

> So while you still do have a choice ect you also don't in certain

> times/circumstances.

I don't see how not. If someone isn't working, and they are given a

condition upon which to receive free money, that's just making a hand-out

conditional.

No one forces you to take free money from anyone.

>

> I was at a job network meeting once with a couple of other guys. There was a

> gentleman there 52 years old. HE had been state manager of various companies

> over his lifetime. Once again he is trying to procure a job as state manager

> ect. He told me some of the jobs they kept sending him to for interview.

> ( general retail sales lacky was 1 ) each time he went to these interviews

> he performed well as asked and was always declined job because of his

> overqualification and past work history and they were getting upset with him

> thinking he was " throwing " his interviews.

Why didn't he apply at somewhere for which he wasn't overqualified? Or just

forgoe the unemployment compensation?

> At the moment we are waiting to hear what this bill will entail in its

> entirety. At a good guess though like work fro the dole they will no doubt

> assign a child into some slavery job ( I bet mcdonalds ears have pricked up

> over this , and KFC ect )

I don't see how it's slavery if they aren't forcing them to work. I'm not

even sure what you're saying this bill even does, since I don't see why a young

child could or should receive unemployment insurance at all.

> I reckon they will be shafted into cheap retail store roles packin shelves

> ect, workin at maccas.

> But that is guessing at the moment.

The way you describe it, it sounds much like our system, in which you aren't

forced to work anywhere, but if you don't apply, you can get kicked off

unemployment insurance. That is hardly equivalent to making you work. It's

just a

mechanism to not give free money to people who can but don't work.

> Australia LOVES fining people financially to fill it scoffers in any way

> possible. I have no doubt if a child rebels they would most likely fine the

> parents or something to try and get them into order.

Well that's disgusting. Have you read that it is actually being considered

in this bill?

Chris

[Guest guest]

They are not eligible for financial assistance ( technically its still under

the parents )

however the government is going to make it law they will have to find a job

ect.

Point is ppl are now being born to work and its getting lose to their ENTIRE

lives.

And this is whether they like it or not.

Im sure some kids at 10 would think it cool to have a job earn some money

ect.

As im sure a bloody lot more would prefer to be living and doing what a kid

would prefer to do.

_____

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 9:41 AM

Subject: Re: new laws for qld and kids

,

> Not sure how they will enforce it. You do have a legal right to quit your

> job but u will suffer because of it.

> ( as in you will get a diminished fortnightly payment from unemployment to

> survive on and find new work ect )

Huh? Does a 9-year-old who is in school get an unemployment payment from

the

government? If not, how is it some sort of suffering for her or him to not

get one when not in school?

> Currently you are sometimes assigned a job from these new employment

> agencies ( atleast a interview )

Do you mean to continue receiving the unemployment payment?

> So for example if you are of able body and they say to you there is a

> factory job packing boxes we are sending you to for a interview

>

> Because we have to get u off unemployment no matter what. You have to

attend

> and do your best in the interview ( they actually follow up and grill the

> employer as to how you went in the interview ) if you are shown to have

not

> giving your all in the interview your payments are severed then u have to

go

> hunt and steal for food.

What's wrong with that?

> An example is they tried to send me off as a brickies labourer( I do sales

> )

> even though I had a certificate showing physical sports injury and this is

> why I currently am now working. I had to go get ANOTHER certificate to not

> attend interview/get job.

Why? Was the first one expired? No one stays injured forever, so it would

make sense they'd want to be guaranteed you were still injured.

> So while you still do have a choice ect you also don't in certain

> times/circumstances.

I don't see how not. If someone isn't working, and they are given a

condition upon which to receive free money, that's just making a hand-out

conditional.

No one forces you to take free money from anyone.

>

> I was at a job network meeting once with a couple of other guys. There was

a

> gentleman there 52 years old. HE had been state manager of various

companies

> over his lifetime. Once again he is trying to procure a job as state

manager

> ect. He told me some of the jobs they kept sending him to for interview.

> ( general retail sales lacky was 1 ) each time he went to these interviews

> he performed well as asked and was always declined job because of his

> overqualification and past work history and they were getting upset with

him

> thinking he was " throwing " his interviews.

Why didn't he apply at somewhere for which he wasn't overqualified? Or just

forgoe the unemployment compensation?

> At the moment we are waiting to hear what this bill will entail in its

> entirety. At a good guess though like work fro the dole they will no doubt

> assign a child into some slavery job ( I bet mcdonalds ears have pricked

up

> over this , and KFC ect )

I don't see how it's slavery if they aren't forcing them to work. I'm not

even sure what you're saying this bill even does, since I don't see why a

young

child could or should receive unemployment insurance at all.

> I reckon they will be shafted into cheap retail store roles packin shelves

> ect, workin at maccas.

> But that is guessing at the moment.

The way you describe it, it sounds much like our system, in which you aren't

forced to work anywhere, but if you don't apply, you can get kicked off

unemployment insurance. That is hardly equivalent to making you work. It's

just a

mechanism to not give free money to people who can but don't work.

> Australia LOVES fining people financially to fill it scoffers in any way

> possible. I have no doubt if a child rebels they would most likely fine

the

> parents or something to try and get them into order.

Well that's disgusting. Have you read that it is actually being considered

in this bill?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Well they have issued fines to parents fro children doing things at school

ect before.

SO I have no doubt they will do the same here and it does suck

Sure you should have control of you kid bla bla bla

But the way society is right now and from what I see around. It's a

incredible hard thing to do.

Shit most teachers at schools have no control over kids in classes ect.

> Australia LOVES fining people financially to fill it scoffers in any way

> possible. I have no doubt if a child rebels they would most likely fine

the

> parents or something to try and get them into order.

Well that's disgusting. Have you read that it is actually being considered

in this bill?

Chris

[Guest guest]

>Point is ppl are now being born to work and its getting lose to their ENTIRE

>lives.

>

>And this is whether they like it or not.

Well, you lose your Mom for the first 5 years of your life

because she has to work. You lose immunity because she

can't afford to breastfeed you.

Then you lose from 5 to 17 going to school, then probably

another 4 going to school, then the rest working. And if you

are lucky you will have enough money to eat and afford medical

care and to shoot a deer in the private parks.

Now up to 200 years ago, everyone worked, even the kids,

but it was mainly at home and mainly with the family.

Now the family doesn't matter, the economy does?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Yeah nothing is about working as a family anymore.

We are like individual ants doing our own thing for our own gain.

With what the majority of mothers are eating nowadays ( or not eating cause

they on a diet )

Would you really want there mothers milk anyway lol?

" working " as a kid is fine when its family/small community orientated.

_____

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...]

Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 1:26 PM

Subject: RE: new laws for qld and kids

>Point is ppl are now being born to work and its getting lose to their

ENTIRE

>lives.

>

>And this is whether they like it or not.

Well, you lose your Mom for the first 5 years of your life

because she has to work. You lose immunity because she

can't afford to breastfeed you.

Then you lose from 5 to 17 going to school, then probably

another 4 going to school, then the rest working. And if you

are lucky you will have enough money to eat and afford medical

care and to shoot a deer in the private parks.

Now up to 200 years ago, everyone worked, even the kids,

but it was mainly at home and mainly with the family.

Now the family doesn't matter, the economy does?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> " working " as a kid is fine when its family/small community orientated.

I have relatives in Germany that ran a bakery for several decades

(probably allergic to wheat too ;--). Anyway, they lived upstairs

and worked downstairs. My brother lived with them for a bit ...

they all got up at 4am to make the bread, then had breakfast,

then opened the shop ... they all stopped for lunch, then worked

the rest of the day til dinner.

Hard work, no doubt, but it sure sounded fun. At any rate, more " human "

than most working environments in the States.

And lest someone think I'm denouncing some political faction, the main

reason this doesn't happen here is zoning laws ... in most areas you

can't have living quarters above a store, and you can't have a store

in a residential neighborhood. Germany has zoning laws, but they

allow the mixing of small stores and living space, which is more

friendly to small business vs. megabusiness. A small change to

the existing laws could allow a major change in lifestlye for

millions of people.

-- Heidi