RE: Kimchi, was Jack LaLanne

February 1, 2004

OK, well HERE is an interesting take on kimchi and cancer:

http://reviews.bmn.com/medline/search/record?uid=MDLN.21659644 & refer=scirus

Abstract

To assess gastric cancer (GC) risk in relation to dietary intake in Korea, a

case-control study was performed. Trained dietitians interviewed 136 patients

diagnosed with GC, and the same number of controls were selected by matching

sex, age and hospital. A significant decrease in GC risk was observed with

increased intake of Baiechu kimchi (prepared with salted Chinese cabbage and red

pepper, etc.), Baiechu kimchi-stew, garlic, mushroom and soybean milk. On the

contrary, a significant increase in the risk of GC was observed with increased

intake of cooked rice with bean, charcoal grilled beef, pollack soup, Kkakduki

(a kind of kimchi prepared with salted radish and red pepper, etc.), Dongchimi

(a kind of kimchi prepared with radish and a large quantity of salt water) and

cooked spinach. In food groups, increased intake of soybean products was

associated with decreased risk of GC. Intake of citrus fruits rather than total

fruits was shown to have a protective effect on the risk of GC, but was not

significant. In this study, intake of total vegetables was shown to have a

protective effect, whereas high nitrate-containing vegetables increased the risk

of GC. In conclusion, our study suggests that the risk of GC decreased with high

consumption of fresh vegetables and fruits, whereas high consumption of foods

rich in nitrate and carcinogenic substances produced during the cooking process

increased the risk of GC.

So cabbage kimchi decreases risk, radish kimchi may increase it? And spinach

increases it?

And soybeans decrease it? Hmmm ...

-- Heidi

And for the technically inclined, here is now bacteria CAN eat

nitrates (whether and how they do in kimchi I leave for better minds).

http://www.bact.wisc.edu/MicrotextBook/Metabolism/totalText.html

Nitrate reduction

Some microbes are capable of using nitrate as their terminal electron accepter.

The ETS used is somewhat similar to aerobic respiration, but the terminal

electron transport protein donates its electrons to nitrate instead of oxygen.

Nitrate reduction in some species (the best studied being E. coli) is a two

electron transfer where nitrate is reduced to nitrite. Electrons flow through

the quinone pool and the cytochrome b/c1 complex and then nitrate reductase

resulting in the transport of protons across the membrane as discussed earlier

for aerobic respiration.

N03- + 2e- + 2H+{imageref( " arrow " )}N02-+ H20

Figure 34 - The reaction for nitrate reduction. N03-, nitrate; N02-, nitrite

This reaction is not particularly efficient. Nitrate does not as willingly

accept electrons when compared to oxygen and the potential energy gain from

reducing nitrate is less. If microbes have a choice, they will use oxygen

instead of nitrate, but in environments where oxygen is limiting and nitrate is

plentiful, nitrate reduction takes place.

Denitrification

Nitrite, the product of nitrate reduction, is still a highly oxidized molecule

and can accept up to six more electrons before being fully reduced to nitrogen

gas. Microbes exist (Paracoccus species, Pseudomonas stutzeri, Pseudomonas

aeruginosa, and Rhodobacter sphaeroides are a few examples) that are able to

reduce nitrate all the way to nitrogen gas. The process is carefully regulated

by the microbe since some of the products of the reduction of nitrate to

nitrogen gas are toxic to metabolism. This may explain the large number of genes

involved in the process and the limited number of bacteria that are capable of

denitrification. Below is the chemical equation for the reduction of nitrate to

N2.

N03-{imageref( " arrow " )}N02-{imageref( " arrow " )} NO {imageref( " arrow " )}

N2O{imageref( " arrow " )} N2

February 1, 2004

Ah really. Even if they don't list MSG as a ingredient.

I been having a full cup full of store purchase kimchee lately because eof

the ingredient list not listing and additives.

_____

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...]

Sent: Monday, 2 February 2004 2:04 PM

Subject: Kimchi, was Jack LaLanne

The Asian store kimchi has MSG, but otherwise it seems to

be made like homemade kimchi, from the descriptions

and the taste of what I've had. Except they don't put

the " good stuff " in it (like pinenuts, seseme seeds, fish).

Kimchi PRODUCES a lot of preservatives (it is being studied

to come up with new and better preservatives for food) but

as far as anyone can tell those preservatives don't hurt anyone.

It DOES seem to keep " meat red " so there might be some kind

of nitrate or nitrate-like substance produced from cabbage

nitrates But nitrates DO seem to be reduced by any fermentaion,

regardless of what they turn into. The link below talks about

a lot of types of fermentation, but specifically nitrates are below --

Kimchi not only lowers nitrates, but any bad stuff like ecoli or

salmonella (or whatever is in raw fish, listeria?). I think kefir has

a similar effect, which is why I use it on jerky.

http://seafood.ucdavis.edu/iufost/lee.htm

On the other hand, most of the traditional fermentation methods have their

own inbuilt safeguard mechanisms. The food infectious and poisoning

microorganisms contaminated on the vegetables and other raw materials of

kimchi are killed within one week of fermentation period mainly due to the

acid formation and bacteriocin production (Lee 1997). Also, large amounts of

nitrate and secondary amines in vegetable products are reduced by

fermentation (Lee 1986). The importance of fermentation technology for the

improvement of hygienic situation of needed region, where cold-chain system

is not well established, was discussed at the FAO/WHO Workshop on the

Assessment of Fermentation as a Household Technology for Improving Food

Safety held in December 11-15, 1995, Pretoria, Republic of South Africa (WHO

1996).

http://www.thebakersfieldchannel.com/health/1726017/detail.html

The researchers found that the process of fermenting cabbage produces

isothiocyanates, compounds that have been found to prevent the growth of

cancer in animals, particularly in the breast, colon, lung and liver, they

said. No one knows yet whether the compounds, which are not found in raw

cabbage, have a similar effect in humans. Further studies are needed, they

said.

" We are finding that fermented cabbage could be healthier than raw or cooked

cabbage, especially for fighting cancer, " said Eeva-Liisa Ryhanen, research

manager of MTT Agrifood Research Finland. " We are now working on ways of

optimizing the fermentation process to make it even healthier so that

consumers will eat more (sauerkraut). "

Evidence for sauerkraut's anticancer effect is growing. Previous studies

have found that Polish women who move to the United States have a higher

incidence of breast cancer than those who remain in Poland, which scientists

attribute to a higher consumption of cabbage among the Polish women compared

to their American counterparts.

http://www.zongga.com/info_eng/e1101.asp

Recently, the benefits of Kimchi has been published in a report, including

its anti-aging and anti-cancer effects.

Kimchi has many valuable substances that are beneficial to human health.

We should preserve a variety of traditional Kimchi recipes to pass them down

to our posterity.

Here is an analysis of kimchi ingredients:

http://www.kimchi.or.kr/english/make/source_prepare.html

Methylmethionine,a biologically activated form of methionine found in

chinese cabbage, helps treat Atherosclerosis

Salted fish includes a variety of long-preserved fermented foods. During the

fermentation period, protein is hydrolyzed into amino acid, resulting in a

unique flavor. The bones of the fish turn into calcium, easily absorbed, and

the fat turns into volatile fatty acid, providing taste.

>Would this also cover you think kimchee bought at the asian store?

>

> :

>>Does this mean the nitrates in kimchee are null and void?

>

>All the studies I've seen on kimchi (and kraut) indicate

>that kimchi and kraut eaters have LESS cancer, and

>that the cabbage ferments into potent anti-carcinogens.

>Plus I read that nitrates are disabled in your stomach,

>if you have enough stomach acid ... you would think

>that kimchi has enough acid? And nitrates cause

>plants to grow nicely ... I wonder if they " fertilize "

>some of the buggies in kimchi ...

February 1, 2004

If it is made in the States, they SHOULD list MSG if they add it.

But ... glutamates are produced by kimchi-making. They don't

seem to be BAD glutamates ... I get dizzy from MSG but not

from kimchi (even commericial kimchi) though I may have gotten

a migraine from eating too much of it (or not, I get migraines

every so often, hard to tell why). I always assume Asian products

have MSG, out of bias perhaps -- the old kimchi recipes DON'T list

MSG, and it isn't needed.

-- Heidi

>Ah really. Even if they don't list MSG as a ingredient.

>

>I been having a full cup full of store purchase kimchee lately because eof

>the ingredient list not listing and additives.

>

February 2, 2004

>So cabbage kimchi decreases risk, radish kimchi may increase it?

>And spinach increases it?

>And soybeans decrease it? Hmmm ...

i'm guessing they were referring to *korean* radish, whatever that may be?

similar to daikon, perhaps? do you use any radish in your kimchi, offhand? i

use red radish which adds a nice zing.

in any case, the study only found correlation NOT causation, so i wouldn't

put too much stock in their findings.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

February 2, 2004

>i'm guessing they were referring to *korean* radish, whatever that may be?

>similar to daikon, perhaps? do you use any radish in your kimchi, offhand? i

>use red radish which adds a nice zing.

They use daikon exclusively, as far as I can tell.. I've used red radishes too.

I mix it with cabbage though -- most kimchi I've bought has radish OR cabbage,

not mixed (that they could DO a study like that would seem to say there

may be a personal preference for radish-style or cabbage-style, or it's

a familial thing -- I've read that the bride is supposed to make the kimchi her

mother in law mad and each family uses different recipes).

>in any case, the study only found correlation NOT causation, so i wouldn't

>put too much stock in their findings.

Good point. I have read more about cabbage being anti-carcinogenic than

radishes though.

-- Heidi

February 2, 2004

>in any case, the study only found correlation NOT causation, so i wouldn't

>put too much stock in their findings.

>Good point. I have read more about cabbage being anti-carcinogenic than

>radishes though.

>

>-- Heidi

i agree, the evidencs seems to keep stacking up that fermented cabbage is

anti-carcinogenic.

in terms of correlation, i was wondering if radish-based kimchi might be a

regional preference, and if folks from said region might also have a

tradition of eating some other food that may be cancer causing (or

mutagenic). in which case, it wouldn't be the radish kimchee itself that is

problematic, but a different food (or foods) thats commonly eaten in the

radish kimchee eating community. or maybe that region is more industrialized

than the cabbage-eating kimchee region and they are exposed to more

environmental toxins? or maybe there IS something bad about radish kimchee?

so many possibilities...

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

> RE: Kimchi, was Jack LaLanne

>

>>i'm guessing they were referring to *korean* radish, whatever that may be?

>>similar to daikon, perhaps? do you use any radish in your kimchi,

>offhand? i

>>use red radish which adds a nice zing.

>

>They use daikon exclusively, as far as I can tell.. I've used red

>radishes too.

>I mix it with cabbage though -- most kimchi I've bought has radish

>OR cabbage,

>not mixed (that they could DO a study like that would seem to say there

>may be a personal preference for radish-style or cabbage-style, or it's

>a familial thing -- I've read that the bride is supposed to make

>the kimchi her

>mother in law mad and each family uses different recipes).

>

>>in any case, the study only found correlation NOT causation, so i wouldn't

>>put too much stock in their findings.

>

February 2, 2004

Is it possible that something got lost in translation and that radish =

raddichio?

Judith Alta

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From: Suze Fisher [mailto:s.fisher22@...]