Re: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

[Guest guest]

>> I'm still not

positive why, but the fact that Pure Encapsulations gives me little to no

reflux and has a lot less pepsin per pill is suggestive. <<

, where do you get this? I googled it and it says i'ts for sale through

health professionals only.

Thanks!

Christie

[Guest guest]

Hi ... are you taking enzymes at all? Excema is usually from Leaky Gut

Syndrome, which is when the small intestine is too porous and allows larger

than normal particles to slip into the bloodstream. I take Peptizyde, by

Houston Nutraceuticals, which digests the protein in the stomach. It has all

but wiped out my excema.

Good to hear your digestion is improving.

Sincerely,

Michele

>From: Idol <Idol@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:15:41 -0500

>

>Unfortunately, I still have more questions than answers, though I got

>'s book back, and it may address at least some of them, but I thought

>I'd give those of you eagerly awaiting every bit of news from my intestinal

>tract (and you number in the thousands, I'm sure) some new information to

>momentarily slake your bottomless thirst.

>

>To summarize, I can use one word: Wow! I haven't had such terrific

>digestion in years. Not the faintest hint of disturbance to be

>found. Absorption on the other hand... who knows. There are some strange

>things going on there, which I'll get to momentarily.

>

>Those few of you who are actually interested may remember that Thorne

>Research and Twinlabs Betaine HCl supplements both gave me major reflux

>problems, bad enough that I had to quickly stop taking them. I'm still not

>positive why, but the fact that Pure Encapsulations gives me little to no

>reflux and has a lot less pepsin per pill is suggestive. From what I can

>tell (and what I reported in my last discussion of the matter here on the

>list) Thorne, Twinlabs and most other HCl supplements include much more

>pepsin than anyone would ever produce on their own, though this is a

>tentative and uncertain conclusion, since data seems to be so thin on the

>ground. Of course, it also could just be that Pure Encapsulations is just

>a better product with a better grade of ingredients, but though I'm sure

>that's true of it compared to Twinlabs, I'd thought Thorne Research was

>supposed to be a good brand.

>

>I'm taking rather more HCl than I could ever manage with other brands, and

>it seems to be working marvelously. Besides the vastly-improved digestion,

>I have somewhat better energy and mood and I'm getting more

>productive. I'm hopeful that improved protein digestion and absorption

>will make weight training a viable option in the relatively short term.

>

>Unfortunately, I've also developed what seem like some odd side effects: a

>couple splits on my hands for the first time in my life, and a trace of

>eczema on my ears, which I used to have a tremendously worse case of when I

>was little. Do any of you have any idea what on earth is up with that, and

>what I might do to correct it?

>

>I'm also concerned about B12 absorption. My understanding is that the

>stomach cells which produce acid and pepsin are also responsible for

>producing intrinsic factor, and while I'm getting pepsin with my HCl

>supplement, I'm not getting any intrinsic factor. Sublingual B12

>supplements all seem to have nasty ingredients like sorbitol, and DMSO has

>the smell and itch factors. Any thoughts?

>

>

>

>-

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

> >Unfortunately, I've also developed what seem like

> some odd side effects: a

> >couple splits on my hands for the first time in my

> life,

Over the last few months, I've been getting lots of

tiny little cuts on my hands - just popping up out of

nowhere. They start with an itch and some redness,

then the skin splits. They are the size of a paper cut

and about as painful. Do you have any idea what's

causing it? I had thought that I was healing, and

certainly my weight loss indicates this. However, I

am concerned about this and the weakness in my

muscles.

Thanks

Jo

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

At 09:16 PM 2/15/04 +0000, you wrote:

>

>

>> >Unfortunately, I've also developed what seem like

>> some odd side effects: a

>> >couple splits on my hands for the first time in my

>> life,

>

>Over the last few months, I've been getting lots of

>tiny little cuts on my hands - just popping up out of

>nowhere. They start with an itch and some redness,

>then the skin splits. They are the size of a paper cut

>and about as painful. Do you have any idea what's

>causing it? I had thought that I was healing, and

>certainly my weight loss indicates this. However, I

>am concerned about this and the weakness in my

>muscles.

>

>Thanks

>Jo

>

I've noticed that my hands are a LOT dryer this winter than in past ones, I

have some of the same issues (micro-cuts on them, appear out of nowhere,

etc.). I couldn't figure it out, neither the weather nor my activities

could account for the excessive dryness. Now you've got me thinking

about side effects from healing elsewhere. Not that I have a clue as to

what exactly would cause it.

I take care of the symptom, at least, by using what is affectionately

termed " 's Magic Muck " . Infuse olive oil with calendula and comfrey

and add enough beeswax to thicken it to a lotion/salve. I try to put on

at least one thin layer every night before I go to sleep (it's

understandably oily, so I try to give it a chance to soak in instead of

washing or rubbing it off during daily activities). It works, always

has, but I've noticed that this winter I have to be absolutely sure not to

forget to apply it - if I do, THAT'S when I start getting the itchies and

the splits, even as early as the next day. Strange - I never used to

have to pay that much attention before.

Now that I think about it, the rest of my skin may be just as dry this year

- it's just that my hands are what I notice first.

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

Christie-

>, where do you get this? I googled it and it says i'ts for sale

>through health professionals only.

There's a vitamin store here in NYC that sells more or less the full line

of Pure Encapsulation products as well as a mind-boggling array of other

stuff. They also mail-order, but their prices are, shall we say,

regrettable, presumably due to their 41st-and-Park location. I've also

gotten them (when I had less time pressure) from other sources on the

net. There's a chiropractor in, I think, Ohio, who sells PE stuff online;

I think you can find him by searching for Standard Process. If you'd like,

I'll try to hunt up my sources when I get the chance (February's been Home

Improvement Month, and today was particularly trying) but I don't have a

best source for PE Betaine HCl yet since I just recently discovered that it

works well for me.

-

[Guest guest]

Michele-

>Hi ... are you taking enzymes at all?

Yup. I'm taking a high-potency pancreatin supplement which has seemed to

serve me quite well for the last couple years.

>I take Peptizyde, by

>Houston Nutraceuticals, which digests the protein in the stomach. It has all

>but wiped out my excema.

The thing that gives me pause about Peptizyde is that it's not enteric

coated. Isn't post-pepsinogen protein digestion supposed to take place in

the small intestine?

Also, it contains no lipase, and I'm not at all sure I digest fats well on

my own, particularly since I've taken pancreatin for so long. I do have a

bottle of Peptizyde on hand, though. I tried it before I found PC HCl and

didn't notice anything positive, but maybe I ought to give it another shot.

-

[Guest guest]

Jo-

>Over the last few months, I've been getting lots of

>tiny little cuts on my hands - just popping up out of

>nowhere. They start with an itch and some redness,

>then the skin splits. They are the size of a paper cut

>and about as painful. Do you have any idea what's

>causing it?

Not a clue, but that's exactly what I'm experiencing. In fact, I initially

thought they *were* cuts, since I've been doing some home improvement

apartment cleanup projects recently, but closer observation revealed that

they're not. It's quite puzzling.

-

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> wiped out my excema.

>

> The thing that gives me pause about Peptizyde is that it's not

enteric coated. Isn't post-pepsinogen protein digestion supposed

to take place in the small intestine?

>

No. Pepsinogen is secreted in the stomach and transformed to pepsin

by stomach acid or pepsin). It works in the stomach and works best

at a fairly acidic pH like 3.

Marty

[Guest guest]

>> but I don't have a

best source for PE Betaine HCl yet since I just recently discovered that it

works well for me. <<

Thanks! I actually kept searching and did find an online source. I'm going to

order it for my mom and see if it works for her.

Here is where I found it:

www.familypharmacy.net

Christie

[Guest guest]

Hi ... I also take pancreatic enzymes, and though I do see results with

either alone, it is the combination of HCI, the pancreatin and the Peptizyde

which has yielded the best results. Pancreatic enzymes don't work in the

stomach, so while they are digesting some stuff can slip through if the

breakdown in the stomach and duodenum wasn't enough. I would say use it in

addition to the other enzymes you are taking. I have to take alot, because

my digestion is majorly whacked. Example: 4 eggs + kim chee for breakfast

needs 4 Peptizyde, 3 HCI's with pepsin, and 2 pancreatins, and a partridge

in a pear tree. But it's working....I tried this amino acid route for a bit

and since I'm breastfeeding, felt really weak and dizzy. It was working but

any strict healing programs will have to wait .

Good luck...

Michele

>From: Idol <Idol@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: RE: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:09:53 -0500

>

>Michele-

>

> >Hi ... are you taking enzymes at all?

>

>Yup. I'm taking a high-potency pancreatin supplement which has seemed to

>serve me quite well for the last couple years.

>

> >I take Peptizyde, by

> >Houston Nutraceuticals, which digests the protein in the stomach. It has

>all

> >but wiped out my excema.

>

>The thing that gives me pause about Peptizyde is that it's not enteric

>coated. Isn't post-pepsinogen protein digestion supposed to take place in

>the small intestine?

>

>Also, it contains no lipase, and I'm not at all sure I digest fats well on

>my own, particularly since I've taken pancreatin for so long. I do have a

>bottle of Peptizyde on hand, though. I tried it before I found PC HCl and

>didn't notice anything positive, but maybe I ought to give it another shot.

>

>

>

>-

>

_________________________________________________________________

Plan your next US getaway to one of the super destinations here.

http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx

[Guest guest]

,

Over the last 6 months I've had a much smaller reoccurance than 20 years ago

of eczema below both elbows. Have no clue, doesn't bother me at all but its

there. DH who doesn't eat as much fat as me has almost lost his bad eczema

spot on his back he's had for a few years. Says it still itches sometimes.

This time of year its usually at it's worst. Maybe we detox backwards in

stages with old ailments presenting themself again.

> Unfortunately, I've also developed what seem like some odd side effects: a

> couple splits on my hands for the first time in my life, and a trace of

> eczema on my ears, which I used to have a tremendously worse case of when

I

> was little. Do any of you have any idea what on earth is up with that,

and

> what I might do to correct it?

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita and ,

Have either of you tried doing an intestinal cleanse? Dr. Schulze's

seems to be a pretty good one. Often times skin problems are a sign of

toxins being backed up in the bowels.

~ Fern

Re: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

> ,

>

> Over the last 6 months I've had a much smaller reoccurance than 20

years ago

> of eczema below both elbows. Have no clue, doesn't bother me at all

but its

> there. DH who doesn't eat as much fat as me has almost lost his bad

eczema

> spot on his back he's had for a few years. Says it still itches

sometimes.

> This time of year its usually at it's worst. Maybe we detox

backwards in

> stages with old ailments presenting themself again.

>

> > Unfortunately, I've also developed what seem like some odd side

effects: a

> > couple splits on my hands for the first time in my life, and a

trace of

> > eczema on my ears, which I used to have a tremendously worse case

of when

> I

> > was little. Do any of you have any idea what on earth is up with

that,

> and

> > what I might do to correct it?

>

> Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>Maybe we detox backwards in

>stages with old ailments presenting themself again.

Perhaps, though I have to say I've always been *extremely* skeptical of the

more elaborate theories of detoxing, like the idea that past ailments

reoccur in reverse chronological order. I can't imagine a mechanism for

something like that, whereas freeing toxins stored in fat by losing weight,

for example, makes some kind of sense.

I'm wondering if it's because food is staying in my intestines a little

longer now that my digestion is better, and it's therefore highlighting

still-present digestive deficiencies. I think I'll try Michele's idea of

combining Peptizyde with enteric coated pancreatin.

-

[Guest guest]

>I'm wondering if it's because food is staying in my intestines a little

>longer now that my digestion is better, and it's therefore highlighting

>still-present digestive deficiencies. I think I'll try Michele's idea of

>combining Peptizyde with enteric coated pancreatin.

>

>-

I don't know about staying in the intestines, but for SURE it stays

in the fat. I get " itchy spots " from IgA -- but, as near as I can tell

it is stored in fat cells. When I do something that causes me

to lose weight quickly (like, not eat much for a day while

I'm running around a lot) the itchy spots come back, even though

I have not eaten any of the foods that I know cause them.

Also, my particular itchy spots are caused by dermatitis herpitiformis,

which, besides being triggered by allergens, is ALSO triggered

by anything with iodine .... like seafood or seaweed. Or iodized

salt. That confused the heck out of me for a long time ... I'm

not *allergic* to those foods, but in high doses they make

me itch. DH takes MONTHS to go away after you stop eating

the allergen (it starts as a teeny speck of a bump, a blister, which itches

like crazy).

A diary helps ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>

>Have either of you tried doing an intestinal cleanse? Dr. Schulze's

>seems to be a pretty good one. Often times skin problems are a sign of

>toxins being backed up in the bowels.

>

>~ Fern

>

coincidentally, i'm doing a dr. schulze intestinal cleanse now, which will

be followed by his liver detox/flush next week. this will be my first ever,

and i'll be interested to see how it goes.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

I'd be interested in hearing how it goes, if you don't mind posting

about it. I'm curious ... did Dr. Schmid put you on these cleanses?

I've done the intestinal cleanse, and it went well. I really should do

the liver and kidney ones also.

~ Fern

RE: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

> >

> >Have either of you tried doing an intestinal cleanse? Dr. Schulze's

> >seems to be a pretty good one. Often times skin problems are a sign

of

> >toxins being backed up in the bowels.

> >

> >~ Fern

> >

>

> coincidentally, i'm doing a dr. schulze intestinal cleanse now,

which will

> be followed by his liver detox/flush next week. this will be my

first ever,

> and i'll be interested to see how it goes.

[Guest guest]

> Re: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

>

>

>I'd be interested in hearing how it goes, if you don't mind posting

>about it. I'm curious ... did Dr. Schmid put you on these cleanses?

>

>I've done the intestinal cleanse, and it went well. I really should do

>the liver and kidney ones also.

>

no, ron didn't put me on it. in fact he doesn't know i'm doing it yet.

sure - i will post how it goes. i'm starting the liver cleanse next monday.

right now i'm taking intestinal formula #1, which i might not even need

since i already have bowel movements every time i eat and often substantial

ones in the a.m. but i thought i'd follow the protocol anyway. plus, i'm

also doing the echinasea plus and superfood now.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Fern,

Treated leaky gut with l-glutamine before giving up gluten about 6 months

ago. Was about then eczema popped out again.Going to do the l-glutamine one

month routine and olive leaf extract again to hopefully kill any grain

toxins left. Spring is coming and I'll do my usual spring plant grazing to

clean my stomach, liver and blood.

> >Have either of you tried doing an intestinal cleanse? Dr. Schulze's

> >seems to be a pretty good one. Often times skin problems are a sign of

> >toxins being backed up in the bowels.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

--- Fern <readnwrite@...> wrote: > Wanita and

,

>

> Have either of you tried doing an intestinal

> cleanse? Dr. Schulze's

> seems to be a pretty good one. Often times skin

> problems are a sign of

> toxins being backed up in the bowels.

>

Fern

What is an intestinal cleanse? I am planning a liver

cleanse - I thought the liver dealt with toxins? Or

is that the kidneys? ....

Jo

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Reply below.

Re: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

> >

> >I'd be interested in hearing how it goes, if you don't mind posting

> >about it. I'm curious ... did Dr. Schmid put you on these cleanses?

> >

> >I've done the intestinal cleanse, and it went well. I really should

do

> >the liver and kidney ones also.

>

> no, ron didn't put me on it. in fact he doesn't know i'm doing it

yet.

> sure - i will post how it goes. i'm starting the liver cleanse next

monday.

> right now i'm taking intestinal formula #1, which i might not even

need

> since i already have bowel movements every time i eat and often

substantial

> ones in the a.m. but i thought i'd follow the protocol anyway. plus,

i'm

> also doing the echinasea plus and superfood now.

You probably won't need more than one capsule of the #1, but it's

still good to take it throughout the cleanse, as the #2 formula tends

to bind you up a bit (it's more bulk forming). The #1 keeps things

keep moving on through. You may even need to increase to 2 capsules

while you're doing the #2.

I use the Superfood on a regular basis as my breakfast drink. I mix up

my own, though, and add some extra powdered herbs to address various

issues. It's also much cheaper to mix your own. I feel really good on

it ... my energy levels have increased since taking it and I've been

able to cut out my morning coffee, something I didn't think I'd ever

do!

~ Fern

[Guest guest]

Reply below.

Re: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

> --- Fern <readnwrite@...> wrote: > Wanita and

> ,

> >

> > Have either of you tried doing an intestinal

> > cleanse? Dr. Schulze's

> > seems to be a pretty good one. Often times skin

> > problems are a sign of

> > toxins being backed up in the bowels.

> >

>

> Fern

>

> What is an intestinal cleanse? I am planning a liver

> cleanse - I thought the liver dealt with toxins? Or

> is that the kidneys? ....

>

> Jo

Jo, the liver does deal with toxins but it's not the only organ that

does. Some toxins are excreted by the intestines, others by the

kidneys, others through the skin, etc. Thus the need for the various

cleanses.

From what I understand, it's best to do an intestinal cleanse first to

make sure there are no blockages there. Otherwise one can get very

sick as stuff starts to back up in the bowels. Not that the other

cleanses don't work without it being done first, but the comfort level

is much higher if it's done first.

The intestinal cleanse I used is basically Dr. Schulze's, but I mixed

up my own and capsulize it. It has two parts: the #1 to make sure your

bowels are moving well and regularly (it also helps to push some of

the toxins through your system), and the #2 to bind the toxins

together and move them out along with old fecal matter and mucous

buildup. Sorry, I know it doesn't sound very pleasant. But it really

does work.

Here's the link to Dr. Schulze's formula:

http://www.800herbdoc.com/p22.asp

~ Fern

[Guest guest]

Seems like, though, if your bowels are blocked at all that could be

causing the eczema problems even if you've killed off all the grain

toxins. Many people have had acne, eczema, psoriasis, and other skin

problems clear up after doing an intestinal cleanse.

~ Fern

Re: Stomach acid update -- and yes, more questions

> Fern,

>

> Treated leaky gut with l-glutamine before giving up gluten about 6

months

> ago. Was about then eczema popped out again.Going to do the

l-glutamine one

> month routine and olive leaf extract again to hopefully kill any

grain

> toxins left. Spring is coming and I'll do my usual spring plant

grazing to

> clean my stomach, liver and blood.

>

> > >Have either of you tried doing an intestinal cleanse? Dr.

Schulze's

> > >seems to be a pretty good one. Often times skin problems are a

sign of

> > >toxins being backed up in the bowels.

>

> Wanita

[Guest guest]

--- Fern <readnwrite@...> wrote: > Reply below.

> The intestinal cleanse I used is basically Dr.

> Schulze's, but I mixed

> up my own and capsulize it.

snip

> Here's the link to Dr. Schulze's formula:

>

> http://www.800herbdoc.com/p22.asp

>

Hi Fern

I am somewhat suspicious about someone selling a

formula without listing the ingredients. I can't find

anywhere on the site that says what's in it. He lists

formula no. 3, but no infomration about how this is

used.

Also, I'm not in the US, so I can't actually buy these

(without paying horrendous shipping charges in the

region of $20+)

Jo

___________________________________________________________

BT Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80

http://bt..co.uk

[Guest guest]

Won't get herbs without ingredients as some herbs I react to.

Wanita

> --- Fern <readnwrite@...> wrote: > Reply below.

> > The intestinal cleanse I used is basically Dr.

> > Schulze's, but I mixed

> > up my own and capsulize it.

> > Here's the link to Dr. Schulze's formula:

> >

> > http://www.800herbdoc.com/p22.asp

> >

>

> Hi Fern

>

> I am somewhat suspicious about someone selling a

> formula without listing the ingredients. I can't find

> anywhere on the site that says what's in it. He lists

> formula no. 3, but no infomration about how this is

> used.

> Jo

[Guest guest]

>I am somewhat suspicious about someone selling a

>formula without listing the ingredients. I can't find

>anywhere on the site that says what's in it.

jo, I think all ingredients for all formulas are listed. Here's what's in

intestinal formula # from http://www.800herbdoc.com/p17.asp (there's lots of

text, so sometimes you just have to keep scrolling til ou get to the

ingredient list.)

BOTANICAL INGREDIENTS:

Curacao and Cape Aloe leaf, Aloe barbadensis and Aloe capensis or ferox,

Senna leaves and pods, Cassia angustifolia, Cascara Sagrada aged bark,

Rhamnus purshiana, Barberry root bark, Berberis vulgaris, Ginger rhizome,

Zingiber officinalis, Garlic bulb, Allium sativum, and Habanero peppers,

Capsicum species.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------