RE: Whole grain food prevent diabetes?

[Guest guest]

I would have no problem with this study if people were really eating WHOLE

GRAINS not whole grain flour products. Who do you know aside from macrobiotic

people eating whole grains? I don't know anyone. Everyone eating *whole grains*

are eating bread and extrusion process cereal. I smell the grain council

behind this.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

It's becoming too obvious now to ignore the obvious- that grain rich diets

don't work.

We'll be seeing more of these attempt to promote grain. ACK, that and the soy

industry!

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Hi Judith... I think they are compairing whole grains to refined grains, in

which case, they're probably right. I'd like to see them compare the whole

grain loaded diet to one of meat/fish, fruits, vegetables, and a few

nuts/seeds. That would be interesting.

Best Wishes,

Michele

>From: " Judith Alta " <jaltak@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Whole grain food prevent diabetes?

>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:35:20 -0500

>

>What do you make of this?

>

>http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852

>

> " McKeown and her colleagues report that people who eat large amounts of

>whole-grain foods may be less likely to develop conditions that increase

>the

>risk of diabetes.

>

>In a study of more than 2,800 adults, higher consumption of whole-grain

>foods, particularly cereals, was associated with a lower risk of insulin

>resistance. The study also found that people who ate more fiber from

>cereals

>were less likely to develop the metabolic syndrome. "

>

>Judith Alta

>

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[Guest guest]

--- Judith Alta <jaltak@...> wrote: > What do

you make of this?

>

> " McKeown and her colleagues report that people who

> eat large amounts of

> whole-grain foods may be less likely to develop

> conditions that increase the

> risk of diabetes.

>

Judith, whenever I see this kind of article, I always

think " compared to what? " Ie compared to people

eating a diet high in refined carbs, or compared to

people eating a lower carb, NT style diet?

Jo

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[Guest guest]

Yeah.

And something that I did not see mentioned was who paid for it. Sounds to me

very much like the Big Push the high carb people are gearing up for.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Joanne Pollack [mailto:jopollack2001@...]

Judith, whenever I see this kind of article, I always

think " compared to what? " Ie compared to people

eating a diet high in refined carbs, or compared to

people eating a lower carb, NT style diet?

Jo

[Guest guest]

I'm sure that there are huge numbers who will fall for a " study " like that.

It really doesn't tell us anything about the study.

How many people?

How long did it last?

What else did they eat?

Who paid for it?

Are " Wheaties " considered a " whole grain cereal " ?

Who actually did the study? Mayer U.S. Department of Agriculture Human

Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University in Boston told

Reuters Health.

Sounds to me as if it's right out of the mouths of the grain industry.

Judith Alta

Whole grain food prevent diabetes?

>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:35:20 -0500

>

>What do you make of this?

>

>http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852

>

> " McKeown and her colleagues report that people who eat large amounts of

>whole-grain foods may be less likely to develop conditions that increase

>the

>risk of diabetes.

>

>In a study of more than 2,800 adults, higher consumption of whole-grain

>foods, particularly cereals, was associated with a lower risk of insulin

>resistance. The study also found that people who ate more fiber from

>cereals

>were less likely to develop the metabolic syndrome. "

>

>Judith Alta

>

_________________________________________________________________

Optimize your Internet experience to the max with the new MSN Premium

Internet Software. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Judith,

Its Reuters so its European. Could be all springing out from an Italian

study done only with people of European ancestry using whole grain crackers

to reduce ketoacidosis. Found it once, didn't bookmark and can't find again.

A Type I diabetes organization woman on my Native American diabetes list was

promoting fiber and whole grain crackers, found study and noted gluten

grains not in this continent's diet until 500 years ago. All non European

ancestry people in the U.S. have higher diabetes than those of European

ancestr. All of these same people's ancestry goes back to countries that did

not consume gluten grains.

> What do you make of this?

>

> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852

> The study also found that people who ate more fiber from cereals

> were less likely to develop the metabolic syndrome. "

Wanita

[Guest guest]

They did note that one should look for " whole grain " on labels and listed

words which meant processed grain, but I think it was a toss off to put

people off guard.

Like you, I think it's a ploy from the grain council.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: zumicat@... [mailto:zumicat@...]

I would have no problem with this study if people were really eating WHOLE

GRAINS not whole grain flour products. Who do you know aside from

macrobiotic

people eating whole grains? I don't know anyone. Everyone eating *whole

grains*

are eating bread and extrusion process cereal. I smell the grain council

behind this.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Didn't know that Reuters is European. Just haven't paid attention. Seems as

if there are more studies coming out of Europe than the US. Or else they

just get more press.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Wanita Sears [mailto:wanitawa@...]

Judith,

Its Reuters so its European. Could be all springing out from an Italian

study done only with people of European ancestry using whole grain crackers

to reduce ketoacidosis. Found it once, didn't bookmark and can't find again.

A Type I diabetes organization woman on my Native American diabetes list was

promoting fiber and whole grain crackers, found study and noted gluten

grains not in this continent's diet until 500 years ago. All non European

ancestry people in the U.S. have higher diabetes than those of European

ancestr. All of these same people's ancestry goes back to countries that did

not consume gluten grains.

> What do you make of this?

>

> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852

> The study also found that people who ate more fiber from cereals

> were less likely to develop the metabolic syndrome. "

Wanita

[Guest guest]

So true. Wait until we start seeing all the " benefits " of pasta.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: zumicat@... [mailto:zumicat@...]

It's becoming too obvious now to ignore the obvious- that grain rich diets

don't work.

We'll be seeing more of these attempt to promote grain. ACK, that and the

soy

industry!

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Think the U.K. felt the brunt of Atkins before the U.S. In light of that,

the U.K. could instruct the U.S. how to promote grains. I posted an article

here few months ago on U.S. breadmakers meeting with U.K. breadmakers on

sales reductions.

Wanita

> Didn't know that Reuters is European. Just haven't paid attention. Seems

as

> if there are more studies coming out of Europe than the US. Or else they

> just get more press.

>

> Judith Alta

[Guest guest]

>What do you make of this?

>

><http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852>http:\

//www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852

>

> " McKeown and her colleagues report that people who eat large amounts of

>whole-grain foods may be less likely to develop conditions that increase the

>risk of diabetes.

They came to the same conclusion in the Nurse's Study, which I think

is basically a pretty good, inclusive group (my Mom is in it). I think it

may well be that eating whole grain vs. refined grain gives some

protection against diabetes ... which fits in with NT.

There have been other studies that show that slow-carbs,

which don't digest so fast, are protective against diabetes.

It's also true though that when you eat whole grains you can't

eat SO MUCH which is likely a lot of the problem with diabetes ...

eating too much too often. Whole grains fill you up. I was

on a brown rice diet, along with 4 other people, and none of

us could eat much of the brown rice, though we commonly

ate huge bowls of white rice.

However, as others have pointed out, they are comparing

folks who eat whole grains vs. folks who eat processed

grains only ... Schwarzbein did some experimenting with T2

diabetics and lower-carb meals and had great results. (though

she still recommends whole grains, I believe).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Thanks for a good response, Heidi,

It's not surprising that people can eat so many processed carbs. No matter

how much they eat there is no nutrition, so the body keeps saying, " Feed me!

Feed me! " until their tummies are ready to burst and they are so miserable

they can't eat any more.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

I have both of Schwarbein's books. Just got the second one this week. I've

been through it once, but it's a rather stiff read so I'll have to go

through it at least once, and maybe twice more, before it sinks in.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...]

>What do you make of this?

>

><http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852>h

ttp://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=4356852

>

> " McKeown and her colleagues report that people who eat large amounts of

>whole-grain foods may be less likely to develop conditions that increase

the

>risk of diabetes.

They came to the same conclusion in the Nurse's Study, which I think

is basically a pretty good, inclusive group (my Mom is in it). I think it

may well be that eating whole grain vs. refined grain gives some

protection against diabetes ... which fits in with NT.

There have been other studies that show that slow-carbs,

which don't digest so fast, are protective against diabetes.

It's also true though that when you eat whole grains you can't

eat SO MUCH which is likely a lot of the problem with diabetes ...

eating too much too often. Whole grains fill you up. I was

on a brown rice diet, along with 4 other people, and none of

us could eat much of the brown rice, though we commonly

ate huge bowls of white rice.

However, as others have pointed out, they are comparing

folks who eat whole grains vs. folks who eat processed

grains only ... Schwarzbein did some experimenting with T2

diabetics and lower-carb meals and had great results. (though

she still recommends whole grains, I believe).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

--- Judith Alta <jaltak@...> wrote: >

> I have both of Schwarbein's books. Just got the

> second one this week. I've

> been through it once, but it's a rather stiff read

> so I'll have to go

> through it at least once, and maybe twice more,

> before it sinks in.

Phew, so it wasn't just me who had to read it several

times! It must be pretty badly written if no-one can

actually understand it! It did sink in eventually,

but I have to say the diet did not do my mental health

any good whatsoever. I didn't feel better on it

either.

Still, it explains a lot that other diet books don't.

Jo

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[Guest guest]

Don't think I'm even going to try Schwarzbein's second diet. Too many parts

of it just don't ring true. Especially when she says that the " feel good "

one gets from the Atkins diet is proof that you are damaging your body. I'd

rather die happy than half dead.

I can understand how a truly healthy diet can make one feel bad at the

beginning. But for it to take up to a year or more before one feels good

again seems a bit far out to me.

And her take on dietary ketosis goes against what I've read in other places.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Joanne Pollack [mailto:jopollack2001@...]

--- Judith Alta <jaltak@...> wrote: >

> I have both of Schwarbein's books. Just got the

> second one this week. I've

> been through it once, but it's a rather stiff read

> so I'll have to go

> through it at least once, and maybe twice more,

> before it sinks in.

Phew, so it wasn't just me who had to read it several

times! It must be pretty badly written if no-one can

actually understand it! It did sink in eventually,

but I have to say the diet did not do my mental health

any good whatsoever. I didn't feel better on it

either.

Still, it explains a lot that other diet books don't.

Jo

___________________________________________________________

BT Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80

http://bt..co.uk

[Guest guest]

--- Judith Alta <jaltak@...> wrote: >

> Don't think I'm even going to try Schwarzbein's

> second diet. Too many parts

> of it just don't ring true. Especially when she says

> that the " feel good "

> one gets from the Atkins diet is proof that you are

> damaging your body. I'd

> rather die happy than half dead.

>

Lol! She is obviously someone who believe if you're

not suffering, it can't be good for you! I certianly

suffered on her diet, so it must have been working ;-)

Jo

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Jo, just curious ... how did you suffer on the Schwarzbein diet?

~ Fern

RE: Whole grain food prevent diabetes?

> --- Judith Alta <jaltak@...> wrote: >

> > Don't think I'm even going to try Schwarzbein's

> > second diet. Too many parts

> > of it just don't ring true. Especially when she says

> > that the " feel good "

> > one gets from the Atkins diet is proof that you are

> > damaging your body. I'd

> > rather die happy than half dead.

> >

>

> Lol! She is obviously someone who believe if you're

> not suffering, it can't be good for you! I certianly

> suffered on her diet, so it must have been working ;-)

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Fern " <readnwrite@f...>

wrote:

> Jo, just curious ... how did you suffer on the Schwarzbein diet?

>

> ~ Fern

>

Nothing physically, but mentally, I became obsessed and miserable. I

couldn't even have a stick of celery - that isn't allowed, you have

to have a stick of celery WITH some carb, protein and fat! There is

no room " doing what you can " on TSP. It's even worse with TSP2. I

remember from TSP 1, your snack allowance was 7.5g carbs - who on

earth is counting half a gram of carbohydrate for goodness sake!

Dr S's principle is really that if you do the diet 100% you'll never

look at any " illegal " food again, you just won't want it. Which is

of course just rubbish. It was waayyy to strict. And I had no

weightloss or health improvements after 3 months - just misery!

Oh, and I found the 3 meals plus 2 snacks a big pain in the backside -

it meant I had to take 3 meals with me to work (bearing in mind a

snack had to be protein, fat, carb and veg): 2 snacks and 1 lunch.

Plus I had too much prep to do for brekkie - I want quick and easy in

the morning, not faff.

See, I'm using this as a therapy session! lol! I feel better now....

At least with NT it's not prescriptive. You do what you can. And you

slowly do better as you start to get better. It doesn't matter if

you have loads of grains one day, and nothing but meat the next. You

eat what you fancy, when you fancy. You just eat the best quality

food you can get, and prepare it properly where possible.

Jo

[Guest guest]

Yes, the SP2 is much too restrictive. One reason I would never follow it.

I'm sure that humans evolved eating what they could find or catch when they

could find or catch it. And not by eating specific amounts by the clock or

the position of the sun.

In the first book I took the amounts to be minimums, not actual. She wanted

to make sure no one went into ketosis.

I think we would do well to take a page from those who feed their dogs raw.

" Balance over time. " Try to make sure in the course of a week or two that

one has consumed all the necessary nutrients.

The RDA is an artificial guideline imposed upon us by the USDA. Their only

goal is to prevent symptoms of nutrient deficiency.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: jopollack2001 [mailto:jopollack2001@...]

Nothing physically, but mentally, I became obsessed and miserable. I

couldn't even have a stick of celery - that isn't allowed, you have

to have a stick of celery WITH some carb, protein and fat! There is

no room " doing what you can " on TSP. It's even worse with TSP2. I

remember from TSP 1, your snack allowance was 7.5g carbs - who on

earth is counting half a gram of carbohydrate for goodness sake!

Dr S's principle is really that if you do the diet 100% you'll never

look at any " illegal " food again, you just won't want it. Which is

of course just rubbish. It was waayyy to strict. And I had no

weightloss or health improvements after 3 months - just misery!

Oh, and I found the 3 meals plus 2 snacks a big pain in the backside -

it meant I had to take 3 meals with me to work (bearing in mind a

snack had to be protein, fat, carb and veg): 2 snacks and 1 lunch.

Plus I had too much prep to do for brekkie - I want quick and easy in

the morning, not faff.

See, I'm using this as a therapy session! lol! I feel better now....

At least with NT it's not prescriptive. You do what you can. And you

slowly do better as you start to get better. It doesn't matter if

you have loads of grains one day, and nothing but meat the next. You

eat what you fancy, when you fancy. You just eat the best quality

food you can get, and prepare it properly where possible.

Jo