Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Is that the whole pigs and pearls deal? Sinners and Saints > As a Christian I can tell you that preaching over the > listserve not only serves no useful purpose, but is > discouraged by the Bible: > > " He himself who reproves a scoffer gets shame for himself. > And he who rebukes a wicked man gets himself a blemish. Do > not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you. " > > -Bill " the Other " Bradford > > > > === > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Kim, This stuff about sinners is actually a Judeo/Christian concept. If you are not a Christian or unfamiliar with the concepts, you will not understand what is truly meant when such words are used. Whether you recognize it or not, it is the Biblical teaching that we are born as sinners and it is through hard work towards virtuous actions that we may receive the grace of God as a reward and experience the Holy Spirit. It is very much about our human nature. The seven great sins include sloth, lust, gluttony, wrath/anger, envy, avarice/greed, and pride. Homosexuality would fall under lust as defined by strong sexual desire. In contrast to the sins are the great virtues of humility, generosity, love, kindness, self control, faith and temperance, and zeal. Self control would mean we do not necessarily act out sexual desires simply because we feel inclined to do so. It is our human nature that causes sexual desire - you can call it biological nature if you want - it is the same. As humans we are still animals. Humility demands honesty - we all sometime, somewhere give way to sin or these innate desires. We all are sinners - it is not some are and some are not - this is very important to understand. Even Christ himself had his moments, but most signficant to understand about him, is that he died for our sins to save us from ourselves and our animalistic nature. It is seeking salvation through him that we rise to a higher spiritual plane of existance - beyond being animals. Sinners >>We're all sinners.<< I'm a Christian (a fundamentalist even) but I don't think it's right to just call everyone a sinner without trying to find out if they actually are sinners. Most folks think they are pretty good people and consider themselves to be " only human " (i.e. fallible by nature) and not sinners. >>Turn away from the sin, ask God's forgiveness, believe in Christ's birth, death and resurrection and know Jesus as saviour. Live in eternity forever. It isn't necessarily easy on planet earth, But with God all things are possible. Dennis<< This will make absolutely no sense to someone who does not know if they are a sinner or not - in fact the Bible says it will seem foolishness. BTW, hello, I am new to the list and have been " lurking " . ~Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 THE DETROIT NEWS BIBLICAL VERSES ARE USED AS CRUTCHES TO PROP UP OLD BIASES By Deb Price An engineering professor is treating her husband, a loan officer, to dinner for finally giving in to her pleas to shave off the scraggly beard he grew on vacation. His favorite restaurant is a casual place where they both feel comfortable in slacks and cotton/polyester blend golf shirts. But, as always, she wears the gold and pearl pendant he gave her the day her divorce decree was final. They're laughing over their menus because they know he always ends up diving into a giant plate of ribs but she won't be talked into anything more fattening than shrimp. Quiz: How many biblical prohibitions are they violating? Well, wives are supposed to be " submissive " to their husbands (I 3:1). And all women are forbidden to teach men (I 2:12), wear gold or pearls (I 2:9) or dress in clothing that " pertains to a man " (Deuteronomy 22:5). Shellfish and pork are definitely out (Leviticus 11:7,10) as are usury (Deuteronomy 23:19), shaving (Leviticus 19:27) and clothes of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19). And since the Bible rarely recognizes divorce, they're commiting adultery, which carries the rather harsh penalty of death by stoning (Deuteronomy 22:22). So why are they having such a good time? Probably because they wouldn't think of worrying about rules that seem absurd, anachronistic or--at best--unrealistic. Yet this same modern-day couple could easily be among the millions of Americans who never hestitate to lean on the Bible to justify their own anti-gay attitudes. Bible verses have long been used selectively to support many kinds of discrimination. Somewhere along the way, Jesus' second- greatest commandment gets lost: " You shall love your neighbor as yourself. " Once a given form of prejudice falls out of favor with society, so do the verses that had seemed to condone it. It's unimaginable today, for example, that anyone would use the Bible to try to justify slavery. Yet when the abolitionist movement began to gain momentum in the early 19th century, many southern ministers defended the owning of human beings as a divinely approved system: " Slaves, obey in everthing those who are your earthly masters... " (Colossians 3:22). In an influential anti-abolitionist essay, South Carolina Baptist leader Furman declared in 1822 that " the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures. " Meanwhile, anti-slavery crusaders were taking an interpretative approach to the Bible since a literal reading " gave little or no support to an abolitionist position, " author Carl Degler says in " Place Over Time: The Continuity of Southern Distinctiveness. " Nearly 100 years after the Emancipation Proclamation, a Virginia court defended racial segregation by saying, " The Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents....he did not intend for the races to mix. " The U.S. Supreme Court rejected that ridiculous reasoning in 1967 when it struck down laws in 16 states forbidding interracial marriage. Like advocates of racial equality, suffragists found the literal reading of the Bible was their biggest stumbling block. Many ministers even condemned using anesthesia during labor because pain in childbirth was punishment for Eve's bite of forbidden fruit (Genesis 3:16). B. eventually declared in frustration: " I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. " Studying the Bible is often akin to looking at Rorschach ink blots, says biblical scholar Joe Barnhart, author of " The Southern Baptist Holy War. " " What we get out of it is sometimes what we put into it, " he explains. The punishment the Bible metes out to all men for Adam's downfall is toiling " in the sweat of your face " (Genesis 3:19). Yet, Barnhart notes with a laugh, there's one bit of progress never denounced by preachers hot under the clerical collar: air conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 >> Homosexuality would fall under lust as defined by strong sexual desire. << This is absurd. Homosexuality doesn't have anything to do with lust any more than heterosexuality does. There are celibate homosexuals, homosexuals with very little interest in sex, and slutty homosexuals. Amazingly just like heterosexuals. Your definitions are predicated on a prejudgement that simply is false. Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Homosexuality would fall under >lust as defined by strong sexual desire. .....oh lordy.... In contrast to the sins >are the great virtues of humility, generosity, love, kindness, >self control, faith and temperance, and zeal. i'm sure there are no homosexuals who possess these qualities...<rolling eyes> Self control would >mean we do not necessarily act out sexual desires simply because >we feel inclined to do so. then everyone, including heterosexuals, need to stop engaging in sex. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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