Re: POLITICS - Re: money and health (was Nutrition 101)

[Guest guest]

>I gave some examples, even cited links. I will give some again (but no links).

>

>1. Ancient Israel (before the Kings)

>2. Medieval Iceland, a society praised by some scholars for its cultural

>output

>3. 17th century Pennsylvania

>4. Somalia

Well, these emails have all been way out of order and I give up

trying to keep up with them. But I'd say in general, if your goal

is non-aggression, then hey, we've done it! Out current society

has the lowest rate of physical injury by government OR fellow

homo sapiens of ANY society ever, including the examples you

give above. ly there are very few armed gaurds around,

or police,

If you are reading the same Bible I am, those folks had plenty

of aggression, though as you state, it would be more spread

out, so more people could get in on the act. Which I guess

makes sense, why shoule the gov't have all the fun? We should

bring back town hangings and stonings, and a bit of wife and

child beating while we are at it.

As for Somalia, it REALLY doesn't seem like an argument for

a non-aggressive state, it is almost in a state of civil war.

From the CIA:

.. In the absence of a formal banking sector, money exchange services have

sprouted throughout the country, handling between $200 million and $500 million

in remittances annually. Mogadishu's main market offers a variety of goods from

food to the newest electronic gadgets. Hotels continue to operate, and security

is provided by militias. The ongoing civil disturbances and clan rivalries,

however, have interfered with any broad-based economic development and

international aid arrangements. In 2002 Somalia's overdue financial obligations

to the IMF continued to grow.

So yeah, it's all ground up at this point, with militias gaurding

everything and ongoing " civil disturbances and clan rivalries "

Is that a society you want to live in? I don't -- I suspect they

don't either -- give 'em a few years and they'll settle down

to one central government. Historically we get central

governments or clan governments, and then the clans

fight.

The other two I don't know, but if they were truly peaceful

non-aggressive societies then they were the exceptions

that prove the rule ...

It could be though that you guys are living in an alternative

universe, which is the theory I'm currently coming to.

Kind of like some of us are living on a 4,000 year old earth

and others on an earth that is billions of years old -- two

different histories, not reconcilable.

>The point is, Mr. Limbaugh is more than happy to use the power of gov't

>and theft when it advances *his* social agenda, and you are just as

>happy to do the same thing when it advances *your* social agenda.

Ok, you are right, I agree with him on that. Our gov't isn't the best,

but it is far better than the alternative.

But, like I said, I think we are clearly living in two alternate

universes! I give up ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> Re: POLITICS - Re: money and health (was Nutrition 101)

>

>>I gave some examples, even cited links. I will give some again

>(but no links).

>>

>>1. Ancient Israel (before the Kings)

>>2. Medieval Iceland, a society praised by some scholars for its cultural

>>output

>>3. 17th century Pennsylvania

>>4. Somalia

But I'd say in general, if your goal

>is non-aggression, then hey, we've done it! Out current society

>has the lowest rate of physical injury by government OR fellow

>homo sapiens of ANY society ever, including the examples you

>give above. ly there are very few armed gaurds around,

>or police,

are you including warfare?

and what about all the physical injury that goes unreported? i've been

physically harmed a number of times by fellow homo sapiens in this country

but only reported it once. i'm guessing i'm not the only woman who suffered

spousal abuse and was too fearful of the consequences of reporting it. i

don't have statistics, but i'm quite certain, they'd bear me out. so

assuming your correct that we now have the lowest rate of physical injury,

that should be qualified as including or not including warfare, and

" reported physical injury " rather than " physical injury " .

also, how can we compare our current rate of physical injury to " ANY society

EVER " - have they all kept accurate statistics on this throughout history?

do we have those stats on medieval iceland, ancient israel and the other

samples listed above?

>

>If you are reading the same Bible I am, those folks had plenty

>of aggression, though as you state, it would be more spread

>out, so more people could get in on the act. Which I guess

>makes sense, why shoule the gov't have all the fun? We should

>bring back town hangings and stonings, and a bit of wife and

>child beating while we are at it.

well, we've had hangings in recent history while living under our

government, and i'm sure you're aware that wife and child beating occur

rather frequently as well. i don't have any statistics, but i get the

impression that we are a rather violent society.

>It could be though that you guys are living in an alternative

>universe, which is the theory I'm currently coming to.

>Kind of like some of us are living on a 4,000 year old earth

>and others on an earth that is billions of years old -- two

>different histories, not reconcilable.

i don't see it that way. i'm admittedly a neophyte when it comes to

libertarianism and still know very little about it, but the more i read the

more " doable " it seems. i think it's my *lack* of knowledge of it that has

generally made it seem " out there " and " unatainable " for the most part. so i

don't think it's fair to characterize it as " living in an alternative

universe " IF you haven't read a good deal about how it works - at least a

few good books - minimum. which maybe you have, and i'm misunderstanding

your knowledge base of libertarianism from which you are making your

critiques.

>But, like I said, I think we are clearly living in two alternate

>universes! I give up ...

i would be disappointed if you did! i'm learning quite a bit from these

exchanges and appreciate that you share your ideology with us as much as i

appreciate that michael, chris and brandon do. but i i understand that it

can be frustrating at times and tiring, so will respect your decision to

give up, if that's what you want to do.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

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