Re: Food allergies and missing nutrients

[Guest guest]

>I've also heard that food allergies can be cleared completely by doing

>cleanses (intestinal, liver, etc.) Perhaps such cleanses make

>nutrients easier to assimilate, and in turn prevent our bodies from

>not tolerating certain foods?

There are about 5 kinds of allergies: IgE, IgG, IgA, IgH and I forget the

other one. IgE and IgG allergies CAN go away. IgA allergies are

based on an HLA gene, and the research shows that 1) They

usually have no symptoms and 2) They don't go away. So, if you

know you allergy is IgE or IgG, this may work. But the IgA

allergies can be masked easily (the symptoms ARE usually

biological imbalance or malabsorption of nutrients, which can be solved).

This has been verified several times by taking biopsies of " symptomless "

people who went back on wheat ... they FELT good but internally

they were damaged.

The problem is, when the IgA allergies are masked, the other

side effects (such as villi damage and risk of cancer) DON'T

go away. So you can feel great, then get a brain tumor. No one

who really knows the IgA issues recommends EVER going back

on wheat.

Which is a good argument for better testing ....

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

> There are about 5 kinds of allergies: IgE, IgG, IgA, IgH and I

forget the

> other one. IgE and IgG allergies CAN go away. IgA allergies are

> based on an HLA gene, and the research shows that 1) They

> usually have no symptoms and 2) They don't go away. So, if you

> know you allergy is IgE or IgG, this may work. But the IgA

> allergies can be masked easily (the symptoms ARE usually

> biological imbalance or malabsorption of nutrients, which can be

solved).

> This has been verified several times by taking biopsies of

" symptomless "

> people who went back on wheat ... they FELT good but internally

> they were damaged.

Hm. Very interesting. So how does one know which allergy they have? I

imagine you've covered this before, either when I wasn't paying

attention or before I subscribed to this list. Are there specific

tests that will make this evident?

Also, you've probably mentioned this also, but do you have a good book

to recommend on the subject?

> The problem is, when the IgA allergies are masked, the other

> side effects (such as villi damage and risk of cancer) DON'T

> go away. So you can feel great, then get a brain tumor. No one

> who really knows the IgA issues recommends EVER going back

> on wheat.

>

> Which is a good argument for better testing ....

No doubt.

I'm just recently realizing how much of a problem with wheat I have.

In fact, I'd been putting wheat grass powder and barley grass powder

in a morning drink, and have been having more and more problems in my

gut. I've finally removed those and am starting to feel better. I knew

I couldn't eat wheat flour products, but I didn't think the grass

would be a problem. Is there gluten in the grass part of wheat? If

not, does that indicate I have a problem with something other than

gluten in wheat?

The other interesting thing is that, probably about a year ago my

chiropractor muscle tested me for both white and whole wheat flours,

and I tested strong for the white but weak for the whole wheat flour.

I thought this rather odd. He also tested me for spelt (which is a

gluten grain) and rye, and was fine for both of those.

So I'm puzzled about what it is in ww flour and the wheat and barley

grasses that cause me problems, if it's not gluten.

~ Fern

[Guest guest]

>> This has been verified several times by taking biopsies of

> " symptomless "

>> people who went back on wheat ... they FELT good but internally

>> they were damaged.

>

>Hm. Very interesting. So how does one know which allergy they have? I

>imagine you've covered this before, either when I wasn't paying

>attention or before I subscribed to this list. Are there specific

>tests that will make this evident?

The tests are woefully inadequate. The " celiac " blood tests will catch

the worst cases, but the celiac lists are full of folks who get

REALLY SICK off wheat (bloody diarrhea, vomiting, etc) and still test

negative. That is because the IgA is produced in the gut, and doesn't

always get into the blood much. Dr. Fine has a stool test that works,

but it is pricey, and still only works if the person is on a fairly

high-wheat diet. (or other allergen, he tests for corn, yeast, soy, milk too).

Also, about 1 in 10 folks with this kind of allergy are deficient in IgA

and don't produce enough of it to show positive on the test (but

they still have the symptoms, so maybe calling it an " IgA allergy " is

a misnomer too, but it's the best terminology I've seen so far).

Dr. Fine also does the gene test by mail order. Most folks who

have the IgA reaction have one of two genes (HLA-DQ8 or HLA-DQ2, I think).

If you have the genes, chances are you do or will have problems

with the WBR grains (Wheat/barley/rye). Those genes are very

rare in countries that have eaten wheat for a long time, but most of

us have genes from Britain, Scotland, Ireland, Finland ... where wheat is

really recent.

>Also, you've probably mentioned this also, but do you have a good book

>to recommend on the subject?

Dangerous Grains. Very good book! Ron Hoggan posts a lot of stuff

free on the net too.

>

>I'm just recently realizing how much of a problem with wheat I have.

>In fact, I'd been putting wheat grass powder and barley grass powder

>in a morning drink, and have been having more and more problems in my

>gut. I've finally removed those and am starting to feel better. I knew

>I couldn't eat wheat flour products, but I didn't think the grass

>would be a problem. Is there gluten in the grass part of wheat? If

>not, does that indicate I have a problem with something other than

>gluten in wheat?

There is *very* little gluten in sprouted barley. Seems to be ENOUGH to cause

a problem though ... beer is made from sprouted barley AND it is fermented

and it still makes gluten intolerant folks sick. That's the terrible thing about

allergic reactions versus just plain " hard to digest food " . Homeopathic

amounts really can cause a lot of damage, it isn't necessarily dose-dependent

(think of the folks who die after eating 1/4 of a peanut ...). Reactive folks

commonly react to foods that were cross-contaminated during

manufacturing, and I got sick off my old toaster oven no matter how

I cleaned it (I got a new one).

I DO miss beer. That is the one thing I haven't been able to replace.

Again though, 2/3 of the gluten-intolerant folks don't get sick even if

they eat a loaf of bread. I'm not sure what the difference is.

>The other interesting thing is that, probably about a year ago my

>chiropractor muscle tested me for both white and whole wheat flours,

>and I tested strong for the white but weak for the whole wheat flour.

>I thought this rather odd. He also tested me for spelt (which is a

>gluten grain) and rye, and was fine for both of those.

Whole wheat seems to cause less problem than refined wheat. This may

be due to saccharides? Gliadin is a lectin. Lectins bind to saccharides, if you

have the correct saccharide. The problem with gliadin is it binds to a

saccharide

that is on your villi, and " stick " . Now if you take gliadin with glutamine, the

glutamine

binds to the gliadin and it causes fewer problems. I think some foods DO have

the

" correct " saccharides and keep the gliadin from causing so many problems ...

probably

the foods that were eaten traditionally with wheat (wine comes to mind ... also

olive

oil may coat the wheat so it isn't so sticky). This is totally a guess on my

part. It is

true that people who eat whole wheat and sourdough have fewer problems.

>So I'm puzzled about what it is in ww flour and the wheat and barley

>grasses that cause me problems, if it's not gluten.

Statistically, the chances are it is gluten. However, I also react (in a

slightly

different way ...) to some other foods, and sometimes I really don't

know what the issue is. I just keep a diary and if it bothers me, I don't eat

it.

But from an Occam's razor point of view, gluten intolerance is THE most

common allergy diagnosed in Europe. It probably affects 1/5 to 1/3 of the

folks in the US .... which is a really high number.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>Heidi wrote:

>>Again though, 2/3 of the gluten-intolerant folks don't get sick even if

>>they eat a loaf of bread. I'm not sure what the difference is.

>>gluten intolerance is THE most common allergy diagnosed in Europe. It

>>probably affects 1/5 to 1/3 of the folks in the US .... which is a really high

number.

Heidi,

Fascinating e-mail. Very informative. Thanks.

I have been having a lot of heartburn for about 5 years. I have tried

desperately to get of wheat and dairy. The world is full of it. My family

loves it.

The numbers are amazing as to how many people are sensitive to grains.

I would say that most people probably do have symptoms from he grain

intolerance. They just don't recognize the symptoms. Gas, bloating,

heartburn, headaches, constipation, diarrhea etc.

Thanks for all the info. . .really enjoyed it.

Sheryl

Sheryl Illustrations

http://dovedesignsrus.com

[Guest guest]

>Fascinating e-mail. Very informative. Thanks.

>

>I have been having a lot of heartburn for about 5 years. I have tried

desperately to get of wheat and dairy. The world is full of it. My family

loves it.

My family used to love it too ... but they don't cook, I do! Anyway, I just

replaced the " flour " in the flour container with sorghum and keep the cookie jar

full and make brownies and waffles and bread etc (in the freezer) and no one

actually noticed for a long time that I wasn't buying the same stuff. Then they

would get sick when they ate out, which convinced them.

Dangerous Grains talks about " adaptive stress " ... basically if you are, say,

allergic to cats but LIVE with a cat, your body will adapt as long as you have

cats around. It does that to wheat too ... the whole immune system gets dampened

so you can eat wheat and not react to it. Which, unfortunately, also seems to to

weaken your immune reaction to everything else, and puts stress on your body. So

when you STOP eating the wheat, THEN you start reacting to it a lot more. And to

other things, because the immune system is healing.

>The numbers are amazing as to how many people are sensitive to grains.

They really are. Some of the researchers are kind of shaking their heads

wondering why this doesn't get out more. I suspect it will, at some point (esp.

now that the tests are cheaper). Not all grains are equally as bad though ...

the Asians really don't have the same issues with rice. Gliadin is uniquely

harmful for some reason, and we eat a LOT of it. But the health issues have

gotten all confused with " carb " issues and " phytate " issues, which are really

separate things.

>I would say that most people probably do have symptoms from he grain

intolerance. They just don't recognize the symptoms. Gas, bloating,

heartburn, headaches, constipation, diarrhea etc.

That is a question that is still open ... clearly I DID have symptoms I didn't

recognize. But before I went GF, I could eat a plate of spaghetti and still

function. Now I probably could not ... I react a lot more. Some people that have

been diagnosed can get a tiny bit of contaminiation and throw up for 2 days

(they get symptoms like food poisoning) but

others can eat a few slices of bread and show no reaction at all.that they can

tell. I suspect the folks that don't bloat have good healthy bacterial

populations that can handle the extra undigested starch.

>Thanks for all the info. . .really enjoyed it.

You are welcome!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 12:34 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:

>My family used to love it too ... but they don't cook, I do! Anyway, I

>just replaced the " flour " in the flour container with sorghum and keep the

>cookie jar full and make brownies and waffles and bread etc (in the

>freezer) and no one actually noticed for a long time that I wasn't buying

>the same stuff. Then they would get sick when they ate out, which

>convinced them.

hey, heidi - tell me about sorghum!

[Guest guest]

>hey, heidi - tell me about sorghum!

Try www.twinvalleymills.com (where I get mine).

They have lots of info on it, and recipes.

Basically it's a grain that is commonly used in

other countries for eating (esp. India) but in this

country it is mainly sold as animal feed. It is considered

nutritious, it seems to be digestible (though as a

whole grain, it should be soaked etc -- I have not always,

mainly because it is a LOT more digestible than

whole wheat ever was, or brown rice).

Anyway, otherwise there isn't much to say about it ...

it looks like flour, cooks like flour, except it has no

gluten. To make baked goods come out right, you

need to add 1 tsp of xanthan gum per 2 cups flour,

or egg whites. It costs something like $25 per 25 lbs,

which lasts me awhile.

For cookies, brownies, etc. no one can tell it from wheat.

For bread though, it seems to make better bread if you

add some potato flour.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

At 10:43 AM 2/19/04 -0800, you wrote:

> Try www.twinvalleymills.com (where I get mine).

> They have lots of info on it, and recipes.

> Basically it's a grain that is commonly used in

> other countries for eating (esp. India) but in this

> country it is mainly sold as animal feed. It is considered

> nutritious, it seems to be digestible (though as a

> whole grain, it should be soaked etc -- I have not always,

> mainly because it is a LOT more digestible than

> whole wheat ever was, or brown rice).

>

> Anyway, otherwise there isn't much to say about it ...

> it looks like flour, cooks like flour, except it has no

> gluten. To make baked goods come out right, you

> need to add 1 tsp of xanthan gum per 2 cups flour,

> or egg whites. It costs something like $25 per 25 lbs,

> which lasts me awhile.

>

> For cookies, brownies, etc. no one can tell it from wheat.

> For bread though, it seems to make better bread if you

> add some potato flour.

>

> -- Heidi

How does it do for sourdough?

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

>> For cookies, brownies, etc. no one can tell it from wheat.

>> For bread though, it seems to make better bread if you

>> add some potato flour.

>>

>> -- Heidi

>

>

>How does it do for sourdough?

Like all GF breads, you have to work with it. I've

made some sourdough using kefir/soured sorghum,

which was amazingly good ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

At 12:44 PM 2/19/04 -0800, you wrote:

>

> Like all GF breads, you have to work with it. I've

> made some sourdough using kefir/soured sorghum,

> which was amazingly good ...

Cool, thanks. *adds to her shopping list*

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the info, Heidi. I'll have to get Dangerous Grains and

read more about it. I'm certain that wheat causes problems for me to

some degree at least.

More comments below.

Re: Food allergies and missing nutrients

<snip>

> Also, about 1 in 10 folks with this kind of allergy are deficient in

IgA

> and don't produce enough of it to show positive on the test (but

> they still have the symptoms, so maybe calling it an " IgA allergy "

is

> a misnomer too, but it's the best terminology I've seen so far).

What are the symptoms of an IgA allergy?

> Dr. Fine also does the gene test by mail order. Most folks who

> have the IgA reaction have one of two genes (HLA-DQ8 or HLA-DQ2, I

think).

> If you have the genes, chances are you do or will have problems

> with the WBR grains (Wheat/barley/rye). Those genes are very

> rare in countries that have eaten wheat for a long time, but most of

> us have genes from Britain, Scotland, Ireland, Finland ... where

wheat is

> really recent.

I have some Swiss genes from both my parents, which from what I

understand Price discovered ate lots of bread and milk. It's

interesting, my father loves anything that's bread or cake-like,

placed in a bowl with fruit, and milk poured over it all. When he was

traveling through Europe in his early 20s, he was amazed when he got

to Switzerland and sat down to a meal where they'd prepared several

dishes just like his mother always did at home in land.

BUT, I do have other genes too, of course, and it may be those are the

ones causing me problems with gluten.

<snip>

> There is *very* little gluten in sprouted barley. Seems to be ENOUGH

to cause

> a problem though ... beer is made from sprouted barley AND it is

fermented

> and it still makes gluten intolerant folks sick. That's the terrible

thing about

> allergic reactions versus just plain " hard to digest food " .

Homeopathic

> amounts really can cause a lot of damage, it isn't necessarily

dose-dependent

> (think of the folks who die after eating 1/4 of a peanut ...).

Reactive folks

> commonly react to foods that were cross-contaminated during

> manufacturing, and I got sick off my old toaster oven no matter how

> I cleaned it (I got a new one).

Which may explain why, even though I've given up wheat for some time,

I still have headaches, etc. Oh dear, I sure hope I don't have to

clean the whole kitchen from top to bottom to get rid of all the wheat

flour residue!

> Again though, 2/3 of the gluten-intolerant folks don't get sick even

if

> they eat a loaf of bread. I'm not sure what the difference is.

How do they ever discover that they're gluten intolerant?

> Whole wheat seems to cause less problem than refined wheat. This may

> be due to saccharides? Gliadin is a lectin. Lectins bind to

saccharides, if you

> have the correct saccharide. The problem with gliadin is it binds to

a saccharide

> that is on your villi, and " stick " . Now if you take gliadin with

glutamine, the glutamine

> binds to the gliadin and it causes fewer problems. I think some

foods DO have the

> " correct " saccharides and keep the gliadin from causing so many

problems ... probably

> the foods that were eaten traditionally with wheat (wine comes to

mind ... also olive

> oil may coat the wheat so it isn't so sticky). This is totally a

guess on my part. It is

> true that people who eat whole wheat and sourdough have fewer

problems.

Hm, I wonder if the butter fat of milk helped the Swiss to digest

their bread better? My father has lots of digestion problems, but not

when he eats his bread/cake and milk!

> >So I'm puzzled about what it is in ww flour and the wheat and

barley

> >grasses that cause me problems, if it's not gluten.

>

> Statistically, the chances are it is gluten. However, I also react

(in a slightly

> different way ...) to some other foods, and sometimes I really don't

> know what the issue is. I just keep a diary and if it bothers me, I

don't eat it.

I kept a diary for awhile and found it to be a pain, but I suppose I

should again. Too bad there aren't any good computer programs (that

I'm aware of anyway) that would make this easier.

> But from an Occam's razor point of view, gluten intolerance is THE

most

> common allergy diagnosed in Europe. It probably affects 1/5 to 1/3

of the

> folks in the US .... which is a really high number.

That is an incredibly high number, especially in light of the fact

that most people seem oblivious to it.

Thanks again for all your help.

~ Fern

[Guest guest]

Heidi. . .

Thanks for the info on sorghum! I am going to check it out. It would be nice to

have another source for cooking.

Sheryl

Sheryl Illustrations

http://dovedesignsrus.com

[Guest guest]

:

>> a misnomer too, but it's the best terminology I've seen so far).

>

>What are the symptoms of an IgA allergy?

Usually, there are no symptoms. The symptoms usually come

from secondary damage to the organs or nervous system, or malabsorption

when the villi are destroyed -- about 2/3 of people seem to be

asymptomatic, though their health may be compromised. It's basically

a silent disease like diabetes or high blood pressure. When the person

does have symptoms, it's usually bloating, diarrhea, constipation, depression,

canker sores, migraines, sinus problems, skin problems ... also brain tumors,

gut cancer,

and probably heart disease, thyroid disease, liver problems (cirrosis is one).

T1 diabetes is associated with gluten and casien IgA problems, and if

caught early, may be preventable. Arthritis and other joint problems are

a common symptom also. Basically there are about 200 diseases that are probably

associated with gluten IgA problems, and they believe that the

same problems may be associated with other allergens also.

>

>I have some Swiss genes from both my parents, which from what I

>understand Price discovered ate lots of bread and milk. It's

>interesting, my father loves anything that's bread or cake-like,

>placed in a bowl with fruit, and milk poured over it all. When he was

>traveling through Europe in his early 20s, he was amazed when he got

>to Switzerland and sat down to a meal where they'd prepared several

>dishes just like his mother always did at home in land.

>

>BUT, I do have other genes too, of course, and it may be those are the

>ones causing me problems with gluten.

I'm not sure what the genes look like in Switzerland ... my background is

from that area too (though I have some Scotch blood too, which could

be the problem). However my grandfather told us they usually ate oatmeal

when he grew up ... they had lots of oats, not much wheat. Also the Swiss

that Price talks about did a long-rise bread, and lacto-fermenting flour

probably denatures the gluten to some extent (I can drink kefir, but

not milk, and I have an IgA reaction to casein ... hydrolyzed casein seems

to not be such an issue).

>Which may explain why, even though I've given up wheat for some time,

>I still have headaches, etc. Oh dear, I sure hope I don't have to

>clean the whole kitchen from top to bottom to get rid of all the wheat

>flour residue!

I had to ... and ditch the toaster oven. I got sick every time I cooked

something in the toaster oven. Eeesh. I had to get rid of some pans

too. I wish beer were ok though ... there are folks making GF beers

now, but not in our area yet.

>How do they ever discover that they're gluten intolerant?

There is a blood test. They've been doing research lately where

they tested blood randomly from the blood bank, to find out

how common it really is.

In some places in Europe they test all kids when they turn 6 ...

they also test anyone with any problem that might relate. Some

docs are beginning to test people here more, so more and

more people are getting diagnosed.

However, the blood test only shows the people with the

more serious issues ... the fact so many people show up

positive on the blood test is scary ...

>Hm, I wonder if the butter fat of milk helped the Swiss to digest

>their bread better? My father has lots of digestion problems, but not

>when he eats his bread/cake and milk!

Could be. Or the sugars in milk. Or the way they made the bread.

Or the fact they did more breast feeding (breast feeding seems

to be protective).

>

>I kept a diary for awhile and found it to be a pain, but I suppose I

>should again. Too bad there aren't any good computer programs (that

>I'm aware of anyway) that would make this easier.

There are several, actually. And a couple of places online. Being

a programmer, naturally I wrote one (which I can't distribute because of

licensing

issues) ... but a good spreadsheet works pretty well too. Or even

Notepad.

-- Heidi