Re: gluten-free vs. grain-free

[Guest guest]

Thanks to heidi, I understand the reasons why someone might want to go

gluten-free, but why totally grain-free? last night i learned a woman i know

kicked breast cancer in a year by following a grain-free, otherwise nt diet.

would gluten-free have worked too?

What about for weight loss? Is gluten-free usually pretty effective, or is

grain-free better? Can you go grain-free without subsequently going very low

carb? (i hate potatoes and don't want to do a very low carb diet). TIA

Elaine

ps: is that mercola grain-free book worth the bucks?

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

I've been gluten free as well as grain free for the last six months except

for over the last few weeks some hominy grits and a few corn tortillas. Did

try some millet, rice flour rolls that were very good. Found millet is

goitergenic, decided against and found a grain carb is a grain carb meaning

I wanted more grains after eating the rolls. Do use sorghum flour in place

of bread crumbs in my chicken and pork breading. Didn't plan it to be grain

elimination too with gluten. Haven't taken the time to gluten free bake. All

gluten free products in the stores have soy and flavor is important. Do eat

potatoes, winter squash, carrots, parsnip, turnip, sweet potato, and peas.

Coconut milk, oil and avocado everyday, my craving killers. All fruits,

nuts, seeds and yogurt have carbs. I've put on 10 pounds of muscle over the

last year but was at my lowest weight in 40 years prior.

> Thanks to heidi, I understand the reasons why someone might want to go

> gluten-free, but why totally grain-free? last night i learned a woman i

know

> kicked breast cancer in a year by following a grain-free, otherwise nt

diet.

> would gluten-free have worked too?

>

> What about for weight loss? Is gluten-free usually pretty effective, or is

> grain-free better? Can you go grain-free without subsequently going very

low

> carb? (i hate potatoes and don't want to do a very low carb diet). TIA

> Elaine

>

> ps: is that mercola grain-free book worth the bucks?

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>Thanks to heidi, I understand the reasons why someone might want to go

>gluten-free, but why totally grain-free? last night i learned a woman i know

>kicked breast cancer in a year by following a grain-free, otherwise nt diet.

>would gluten-free have worked too?

THAT is the million-dollar question. There is no consensus yet, that I know

of. The authors of " Dangerous Grains " pinpoint gluten (gliadin) as the

main " bad actor " but also say that even rice can cause some people problems.

And unless you are very careful, many grains are contaminated with wheat,

which confuses the issue. All grains have other issues too, like the phytate

issue, high doses of pesticides. And grains are the most allergenic of

foods, but there aren't really good tests for IgA allergies available, so

most people can't tell if they are reacting to a particular grain or not.

That said, there are healthy people around the world who DO eat

a lot of grains. I.e. breast cancer has been rare in China, even though they

eat huge amounts of rice. But it is beginning to show up now that they

are eating a more " Western " diet ... whatever causes breast cancer, it

does NOT appear to be rice.

>What about for weight loss? Is gluten-free usually pretty effective, or is

>grain-free better? Can you go grain-free without subsequently going very low

>carb? (i hate potatoes and don't want to do a very low carb diet). TIA

I think the Warrior Diet is pretty effective for weight loss, esp. if you

concentrate on

proteins/vegies first. Gluten free helped my daughter and DH lose weight big

time ... without any

other changes ... but didn't help me much. It would depend on what you allergic

to also. If you react to corn, then corn might make you gain weight. Gluten

probably

messes up the appestat though, so it may be a special case. However, people who

have celiac (a really messed up intestine from gluten damage) typically GAIN

weight

when they go GF.

However, breads like Chebe bread have no grains (tapioca isn't a grain) and

potato

flour is good to cook with too. I use sorghum a fair amount, and rice flour

also.

I'm a little wary of corn, except as masa (which has been soaked in lime -

tortillas

are an easy starch for the family too, tacos, tostadas, enchiladas, and quickie

tortilla " pizzas " ).

White rice seems ok (brown doesn't get along with us at all). I do love potatoes

though,

esp. as hash browns. Buckwheat isn't really a grain either.

>ps: is that mercola grain-free book worth the bucks?

I don't know, I didn't buy it. I like the WD on multiple levels ... a big one

being that it

SAVES TIME AND MONEY. If I was to recommend a book, it would be that one (tho

you don't need the book to do the diet). I think if you want to lose weight on

the

WD you should stick to a big salad first, then a nice bit of protein ... steak

or chicken ...

or a big bowl of hearty soup ... and vegies. Then some starch if you want (you

won't

want much by that point).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I have been eating very well and exercising 6 days a week for the last 5

weeks and have only lost about 7 pounds, although i do feel great. I'm

pretty sure i may be sensitive to gluten, mildly so, but by now i'm eager to

up the weight loss. I had no idea buckwheat wasn't a grain. what is it? My

last attempt at going gluten-free failed at christmas, but with some prep

i'm going to try again. Wanita, you continue to be my dietary muse.

elaine

[Guest guest]

Elaine wrote:

I've been gluten free as well as grain free for the last six months except

for over the last few weeks some hominy grits and a few corn tortillas.

Sheryl wrote: This group is such an inspiration to me.

Elaine>>Did try some millet, rice flour rolls that were very good. Found millet

is

goitergenic, decided against and found a grain carb is a grain carb meaning

I wanted more grains after eating the rolls.

Sheryl> I think that is true for me to. Grains are grains. I want to eat the

whole darn bowel or rice. I am that way with sugar too. Carbs are bad for me.

I do well with veggies can really pig out and no problem.

I had no idea millet was goitergenic

Elaine>> Do use sorghum flour in place of bread crumbs in my chicken and pork

breading.

Sheryl> And it doesn't bother you

Elaine>>Didn't plan it to be grain elimination too with gluten. Haven't taken

the time to gluten free bake. All gluten free products in the stores have soy

and flavor is important.

Sheryl> SOme of the gluten free flours have garbanzo beans. I don't want the

gas and bloating.

Elaine>>Do eat potatoes, winter squash, carrots, parsnip, turnip, sweet potato,

and peas. Coconut milk, oil and avocado everyday, my craving killers.

Sheryl> Me to except the Coconut milk. How to you buy that or do you get it

from the coconut.

Elaine>>All fruits, nuts, seeds and yogurt have carbs. I've put on 10 pounds of

muscle over the last year but was at my lowest weight in 40 years prior.

Sheryl> Congratulations that is great!!

Sheryl Illustrations

http://dovedesignsrus.com

[Guest guest]

The last post was written to Elaine and it should have been Wanita. . .Sorry

Wanita.

Sheryl

Sheryl Illustrations

http://dovedesignsrus.com

[Guest guest]

Elaine I think 1 1/2 pounts a week is good.

Sheryl

Elaine <itchyink@...> wrote:I have been eating very well and

exercising 6 days a week for the last 5

weeks and have only lost about 7 pounds, although i do feel great. I'm

pretty sure i may be sensitive to gluten, mildly so, but by now i'm eager to

up the weight loss. I had no idea buckwheat wasn't a grain. what is it? My

last attempt at going gluten-free failed at christmas, but with some prep

i'm going to try again. Wanita, you continue to be my dietary muse.

elaine

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

LOL! Close to twin bodies, it seems. Buckwheat is non gluten and no relation

to wheat adding to the confusion of its name. My pre GF days I'd make the

lightest, fluffiest buckwheat pancakes from a recipe I got at at a bed and

breakfast we stayed at in New Brunswick, Canada. Had forgot about them.Could

try that with GF flour portion for wheat flour part. Buckwheat seems to be a

far northern used grain. Used a lot in Russia. Contains rutin, a form of

vitamin C that you can buy supplements of. People who have problems taking

vitamin C can take rutin with no problems. Is supposed to be really

effective for broken cappilaries like varicose veins. Kasha in the stores is

roasted buckwheat groats. You could soak, cook and eat instead of potato.

Have tried kasha. I'd need to acquire a taste to it.

> I have been eating very well and exercising 6 days a week for the last 5

> weeks and have only lost about 7 pounds, although i do feel great. I'm

> pretty sure i may be sensitive to gluten, mildly so, but by now i'm eager

to

> up the weight loss. I had no idea buckwheat wasn't a grain. what is it? My

> last attempt at going gluten-free failed at christmas, but with some prep

> i'm going to try again. Wanita, you continue to be my dietary muse.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Sheryl,

No problem on mixing Elaine and myself up. As you'll see I wrote we're

similar. :-)

> Sheryl wrote: This group is such an inspiration to me.

Yes, very knowledgeable.

> Sheryl> Carbs are bad for me. I do well with veggies can really pig out

and no problem.

Only way to maybe explain it is veggies are more closer to natural carbs our

bodies have had longer historically than grains. Our gut-brain recognizes

them easier and shuts off better with satiation.

>

> I had no idea millet was goitergenic

That was answered by someone here, don't remember who, when I asked if there

were any drawbacks to using millet.

>

> Sheryl> And it doesn't bother you

Sorghum is non gluten. As its very little in breading I've noticed nothing.

My symptoms of GI were pretty much hard to put a finger on until I quit and

found out what got better.

>

> Sheryl> SOme of the gluten free flours have garbanzo beans. I don't want

the gas and bloating.

Unsoaked beans, bad idea. No legumes here either except for occassional

pinto beans in chili for their purine content. Gas, bloating from anything

and its gone I've learned.

>

> Sheryl> Me to except the Coconut milk. How to you buy that or do you get

it from the coconut.

Use Thai Kitchen Pure in the 5.5 oz. can. Only commercial with no additives.

Buy by case co-op warehouse buying. There is better mailorder. Not really

happy its in a can but I open and put in mason jar in fridge and eat it over

2 days.

> Sheryl> Congratulations that is great!!

Thanks! Bothered me to be able to put 2 fingers around arm below elbow and

have them touch when I was thinnest. Now there's a good 3 inches left to go.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

i had no idea about buckwheat. i am of baltic descent so should try it, esp.

for broken capillaries. i have very mild rosacea that i don't want to get

worse. the woman i know who cured her breast cancer on a grain-free diet

also got rid of a very bad case of rosacea. thanks for the info!

Elaine

> LOL! Close to twin bodies, it seems. Buckwheat is non gluten and no relation

> to wheat adding to the confusion of its name..

[Guest guest]

Wanita wrote:Kasha in the stores is roasted buckwheat groats.

I didn't know that. I bought some once can't remember what they were like. But

if I can't remember and haven't eaten them since. . .Hmmm

Sheryl

Sheryl Illustrations

http://dovedesignsrus.com

[Guest guest]

Elaine: If you are working out, that really isn't bad weight loss. One thing

that happens is that you gain muscle when you work out ... and the muscles

seem to retain some water too. If you try for FAST weight loss the chances

are you will lose muscle too, which isn't good.

Myself I've been getting thinner and thinner with very slow weight loss ...

in one sense it is frustrating not seeing the numbers go down as fast

as they have on stricter diets, but I'm so STRONG it's worth it.

-- Heidi

>I have been eating very well and exercising 6 days a week for the last 5

>weeks and have only lost about 7 pounds, although i do feel great. I'm

>pretty sure i may be sensitive to gluten, mildly so, but by now i'm eager to

>up the weight loss. I had no idea buckwheat wasn't a grain. what is it? My

>last attempt at going gluten-free failed at christmas, but with some prep

>i'm going to try again. Wanita, you continue to be my dietary muse.

>elaine

>

>

[Guest guest]

BTW every so often it comes up that the Swiss were

healthy even though they ate wheat. I re-read that chapter

in Price, and they didn't eat wheat ... they ate rye. They

had little meat, but they had rye bread and milk. The Gaelics

also had little meat, but they had fish and oats.

That jibes with what my Grandfather said, which was that

poor folk mainly had goat milk and oats (richer folk had

wheat bread and cow milk). Oats aren't harmful to anyone

unless they are contaminated by wheat (and the amount

of contamination probably wouldn't hurt anyone unless

they are sensitive). Rye and barley don't seem to be nearly as

harmful as wheat, though they do bother people who

are sensitized to wheat.

A typical passage in Price notes: (about the Gaelics)

" Her teeth were wrecked with dental caries,

the disease involving even the front teeth. We ate a meal

at the home in which she was living. It consisted of

white bread, butter, and jam, all imported to the island. This in striking

contrast with the pictures shown in ... she has splendidly formed dental

arches and a high immunity to tooth decay. Her diet and that of her parents was

oatmeal porridge and oatcake and fish which built stalwart people. "

So ....

1. Some healthy people didn't get butter or milk.

2. Some healthy people did eat a lot of grain (oats, in this case).

3. None of the " healthy " folks was on a whole wheat diet.

4. Price assumed the culprits (he says this over and over) were " white flour and

sugar "

5. There was no great amount of fructose involved in any of these people.

As for item #4, there are a few points worth noting:

1. " whole wheat bread " was not imported anywhere much at that point

in time ... whole wheat flour gets rancid quickly. So there isn't any population

in Price where

" whole wheat products " were imported and the health declined. However,

that HAS happened more recently, where whole wheat berries are imported

into African countries as food aid, and have made the children ill.

2. Since these were imported foods, and these were generally poor people,

it is likely they didn't take over the

diet ... for many people they were probably supplemental. So they wouldn't

have a huge displacing effect for nutrients.

3. White rice, which is every bit as non-nutritious as white flour, doesn't

cause pinched faces and tooth problems among Koreans and Chinese

prior to the " Western diet " .

4. In Price's time, no one knew what an " allergy " or " intolerance " was. He made

a good

assumption that the issues involved were malnutrition (and they likely

were, because wheat CAUSES malabsorption in some people).

5. The children Price treated with whole wheat bread were probably NOT gluten

intolerant, because in that place and time so much bread was eaten that

*really* gluten intolerant kids usually died in infancy. The moderately gluten

intolerant would benefiti from the additional nutrients, because they

were probably malnourished (and their diet WAS lousy by any standards).

Anyway, there is more fuel to the fire ...

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>the woman i know who cured her breast cancer on a grain-free diet

>also got rid of a very bad case of rosacea. thanks for the info!

>Elaine

Everyone I know of who stopped eating wheat got rid of their

rosacea (including me). I think rosacea might count as a symptom

of gluten intolerance ... in the recent article about long-term

antibiotic use being associated with breast cancer, it was

mentioned that one reason might be that people on long-term

antibiotics are often treating rosacea, and maybe people prone

to rosacea are also prone to breast cancer. Folks who are

gluten intolerant and eat gluten are MUCH more prone to cancer

of all types.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 07:36 PM 2/21/2004, you wrote:

>roasted buckwheat groats. You could soak, cook and eat instead of potato.

>Have tried kasha. I'd need to acquire a taste to it.

the best way to eat kasha is to long-soak, then fry it with lots of fat,

then serve it with a pile of sour cream and ketchup. that's how we ate it

when i lived in russia and it's tast-ee!

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Katja! Thought you'd know a traditional way to eat kasha.Will

try.....not much difference than frying hominy grits, loading up with

butter, bacon, sausage.

> the best way to eat kasha is to long-soak, then fry it with lots of fat,

> then serve it with a pile of sour cream and ketchup. that's how we ate it

> when i lived in russia and it's tast-ee!

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Daphne,

Your digestion sounds like mine. I too love the snack things like crackers, but

my digestive track can't handle them. Yesterday my husband was eating tortilla

chips and guacamole. YUMMY!!!!!! I usually can handle people eating things I

can't . .but yesterday I wanted to grab the bag and have a few myself.

Sheryl

Daphne Blumenthal <biophile410@...> wrote:

I stopped gluten foods due to digestion issues. Then I went mostly grain-free

for several months. Then I started eating corn chips and rice thins -- of good

quality, I thought. Terrible digestion problems came back from those

processed grain products. I don't know what the common denominator is in

what I can't digest, but it definitely goes beyond gluten. Convenience grain

products of various types cause the problem. Too bad because the rice thins

were a great delivery system for good stuff like liverwurst and hummus. (I

think our bodies just don't like convenience, even if it's the best quality you

can find. Ha ha.)

I would love to get a recipie for GF buckwheat pancakes; I just got some crepe

pans. [Parents are coming for extended visit when baby is born (2 weeks) and

we can't eat ONLY eggs and bacon for breakfast while they're here, as we

usually do. They will freak out -- and I'll be under enough stress without

having to argue cholesterol/sat fat theory with my scientist family.]

[Guest guest]

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

> BTW every so often it comes up that the Swiss were

> healthy even though they ate wheat. I re-read that chapter

> in Price, and they didn't eat wheat ... they ate rye. They

> had little meat, but they had rye bread and milk. The Gaelics

> also had little meat, but they had fish and oats.

Thanks for looking that up, Heidi. I was erroneously thinking it was

wheat bread they ate.

<snip>

> So ....

>

> 1. Some healthy people didn't get butter or milk.

> 2. Some healthy people did eat a lot of grain (oats, in this case).

> 3. None of the " healthy " folks was on a whole wheat diet.

> 4. Price assumed the culprits (he says this over and over) were

" white flour and sugar "

> 5. There was no great amount of fructose involved in any of these

people.

So, are you thinking that wheat is not a good bet for anyone to

consume? Or perhaps you've already concluded that.

~ Fern

[Guest guest]

>So, are you thinking that wheat is not a good bet for anyone to

>consume? Or perhaps you've already concluded that.

>

>~ Fern

I have no idea! Ron Hoggan thinks it is risky ... the Lancet had a study

where they fed some volunteers large quantities of gluten (about

6 times more than most folks eat) for 2 weeks and ALL of them

had microscopic villi damage. I haven't heard if anyone has tried

to replicate that ... but if that is the case, then anyone who eats

large quantities of high-gluten wheat (at least if it isn't sourdough etc)

would be likely to have some level of malabsorption, even if they

aren't genetically susceptible.

But it will take a lot of study before anyone comes to any

definitive conclusions.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

> >So, are you thinking that wheat is not a good bet for anyone to

> >consume? Or perhaps you've already concluded that.

> >

> >~ Fern

>

> I have no idea! Ron Hoggan thinks it is risky ... the Lancet had a

study

> where they fed some volunteers large quantities of gluten (about

> 6 times more than most folks eat) for 2 weeks and ALL of them

> had microscopic villi damage. I haven't heard if anyone has tried

> to replicate that ... but if that is the case, then anyone who eats

> large quantities of high-gluten wheat (at least if it isn't

sourdough etc)

> would be likely to have some level of malabsorption, even if they

> aren't genetically susceptible.

>

> But it will take a lot of study before anyone comes to any

> definitive conclusions.

It'll be interesting to see as it unfolds whether or not it truly is

the wheat/gluten itself, or some other factor(s), like how it's

prepared and/or how it's been domesticated and modified over the

years. Much like milk and dairy products have been made villains, but

it turns out it isn't milk itself, but the fact that it's been so

contaminated by hormones, antibiotics, the cow's diet, pasteurizing,

etc.

I'm not saying they are the same, but it'll be interesting to see

which it is.

In the meantime, I for one am going to watch my intake of grains, and

how they're prepared.

Thanks for all your good info Heidi. Much appreciate your willingness

to share your knowledge!

~Fern

[Guest guest]

>It'll be interesting to see as it unfolds whether or not it truly is

>the wheat/gluten itself, or some other factor(s), like how it's

>prepared and/or how it's been domesticated and modified over the

>years. Much like milk and dairy products have been made villains, but

>it turns out it isn't milk itself, but the fact that it's been so

>contaminated by hormones, antibiotics, the cow's diet, pasteurizing,

>etc.

It will be interesting. Based on the problems found in the Egyptian

and Assyrian mummies though, I wouldn't guess the issue is " modern

preparation " . Look at King Tut ... he has that narrow face, and the

mummies had tons of sinus problems. Your average Korean who

eats a high-rice diet does not have a narrow face, or tooth crowding.

Most of the problems that are now associated with wheat started

really getting bad in the 1700-1800's, around the time wheat started getting

more available, but before pesticides etc.

That said, modern wheat is worse ... the gluten content is far

higher due to breeding.

>In the meantime, I for one am going to watch my intake of grains, and

>how they're prepared.

At this point everyone has to make their own decisions. And shoot,

even if they PROVED wheat causes cancer etc., people will still eat it ...

look at smoking. I just won't feed it to MY family (OK, I admit it,

I don't buy them cigarettes either. Or factory farmed meat if I can

help it).

> Thanks for all your good info Heidi. Much appreciate your willingness

>to share your knowledge!

Anytime. (asked or unasked, some would say!).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>So, are you thinking that wheat is not a good bet for anyone to

>consume? Or perhaps you've already concluded that.

>

>~ Fern

*************

.... but if that is the case, then anyone who eats

large quantities of high-gluten wheat (at least if it isn't sourdough etc)

would be likely to have some level of malabsorption, even if they

aren't genetically susceptible.

But it will take a lot of study before anyone comes to any

definitive conclusions.

-- Heidi Jean

*************

You know, many vegetarians are consuming large quantities of wheat gluten,

as it is made into a meat substitute. There's a good study group right

there!

Heidi, you have mentioned that oats are gluten free, cmiiw. I have read so

much conflicting literature on this subject. I would be interested if you

could point me to some reliable sources of information on this. My son is

so sensitive to gluten that I'm hesitant to add oats to his diet. If he

could tolerate them, it would make a nice occasional treat. He does much

better with low grain foods in general. So do I.

Also, I have read that all grains contain some trace amounts gluten. Does

anyone know the facts?

Thanks,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

heehee. yep!

also, you can toss some ground meat in with the kasha too, though more

frequently we ate it with ground/seasoned meat patties. they grind the meat

by hand there and they do it much more finely than we get " ground beef " , so

the patties are more like cooked pate or something - but ever so tasty!

At 09:39 AM 2/22/2004, you wrote:

>Thanks, Katja! Thought you'd know a traditional way to eat kasha.Will

>try.....not much difference than frying hominy grits, loading up with

>butter, bacon, sausage.

>

>

> > the best way to eat kasha is to long-soak, then fry it with lots of fat,

> > then serve it with a pile of sour cream and ketchup. that's how we ate it

> > when i lived in russia and it's tast-ee!

>

>Wanita

[Guest guest]

> >roasted buckwheat groats. You could soak, cook and eat instead of

potato.

> >Have tried kasha. I'd need to acquire a taste to it.

>

> the best way to eat kasha is to long-soak, then fry it with lots of

fat,

> then serve it with a pile of sour cream and ketchup. that's how we

ate it

> when i lived in russia and it's tast-ee!

Awesome! My mother made kasha every once in a while when I was

growing up but I hated it! But she cooked it just like rice so fat

might improve it quite a bit. It was usually served a family Sweet

and Sour Hamburger recipe. There was a lot of ketchup in that recipe

so that part mom got right!

Ghislaine

[Guest guest]

>You know, many vegetarians are consuming large quantities of wheat gluten,

>as it is made into a meat substitute. There's a good study group right

>there!

And a couple of high-profile vegetarians ( McCartney, for example)

died of breast cancer. Which is really sad. My Dad was vegetarian and

got the kind of seizures that are often associated with gluten

intolerance, plus he may have had weak bones (osteoporosis is

also related, something like 60% of gluten intolerant folks have osteo).

It WILL be interesting to see long-term studies on vegetarians. However,

since they are being compared to the Twinkie and Big Mac consuming

REST of the country, it may be a tie. Maybe they should compare vegans

to low-carbers ...

>Heidi, you have mentioned that oats are gluten free, cmiiw. I have read so

>much conflicting literature on this subject. I would be interested if you

>could point me to some reliable sources of information on this. My son is

>so sensitive to gluten that I'm hesitant to add oats to his diet. If he

>could tolerate them, it would make a nice occasional treat. He does much

>better with low grain foods in general. So do I.

You are correct, it is controversial. The site www.celiac.com might have

some of the controversy anyway. There have been good studies where

they did close measurements of celiacs eating oats, and found no

reaction (some of these folks REALLY react quickly to extremely

slight amounts of gluten, they make good canaries). But, it is next

to impossible to gaurantee that any oats you buy are not contaminated.

McCannes MIGHT be ok, they work at it, but they don't guarantee it.

The other sources of oats were tested by one group and all of them

were contaminated. For the " oat " studies they grew the oats

specially for the study. If I was going to eat oats, I think I'd grow them

myself. The problem is, they are hauled in the same trucks as wheat,

grown in fields next to wheat, stored in the same facilities. The grains

are the same size and look alike, so it's next to impossible to sort

them.

What kind of " treats " does he want with oats in them? You can

get " flattened buckwheat " that looks a whole lot like oats,

for cookies etc. For hot cereal, hot rice cereal is pretty much

like oatmeal.

I don't think people NEED grains, and really, it's

easier to do without them (baking is a chore, in my book, though, like

you say, it's nice to have treats, and I make them for the family).

>Also, I have read that all grains contain some trace amounts gluten. Does

>anyone know the facts?

The term " gluten " is hopelessly misused. It means " the protein that

exists in a grain " . Any grain -- rice, corn, sorghum all have " gluten " .

However, it is commonly used to mean " the protein in wheat, barley or rye " ...

(the WBR grains)

which is a subset of " all possible glutens " . The protein in wheat is technically

gliadin,

in barley it is hordein, I think, and rye is something else. The gluten in WBR

grains

is the problematic one ... the glutens in the other grains don't seem to be

as problematic. There seems to be one or two peptide fragments on WBR gluten

that cause most of the problems, though that is still under study. Gliadin

" sticks " to the villi when you eat it (whether or not you are allergic to it)

because it is a sticky lectin and lectins stick to saccharides -- and the

saccharide gliadin likes just happens to be on your villi. It could be that

eating wheat with wine and olive oil prevents this, to some extent,

but that is just my theory (based on the traditions of the Mediterranean

people, who have been eating wheat a long time, but insist on eating

it with wine and olive oil).

The protein in rice doesn't do that, AFAIK,

plus there is a whole lot less gluten in rice.

-- Heidi Jean