Re: dietary protocol for degenerative arthritis?

[Guest guest]

I always read with great interest the various ailments people have and how

they use diet to treat them. now i have one of my own -- i have just been

diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in my left ankle. i'm only 37 for

crap's sake. i suffered a bad break in that ankle almost 20 years ago and it

is now full of hardware (plate and pins). i'm getting lots of sharp pains. i

have already had a lower back disc degenerate to a sliver from a spinal

fracture (many, many years of unhealthy living are probably more to blame

than the fractures).

I feel confident i can halt further degeneration through diet, but is it

possible to regenerate cartilage? I'm trying to eat gelatin daily. are the

chondroitin/glucosamine (sp?) supplements worthwhile? TIA for any advice. Oh

yes, and i'm on day two of gluten free Heidi. I've heard it helps with

arthritis so i'm hopeful.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

:

>I feel confident i can halt further degeneration through diet, but is it

>possible to regenerate cartilage? I'm trying to eat gelatin daily. are the

>chondroitin/glucosamine (sp?) supplements worthwhile? TIA for any advice. Oh

>yes, and i'm on day two of gluten free Heidi. I've heard it helps with

>arthritis so i'm hopeful.

>Elaine

Sorry to hear it. My joints were so bad I could barely walk, and they told me

" well,

you are getting older " . Now I can run ... it takes awhile to heal, but much of

the arthritis

problems are allergy based. Wheat and corn are the main culprits. Going GF may

solve

the problem, though for me it got worse before it got better. After going GF my

joints

swelled way up and so did my knees ... I ended up stopping milk products and

corn

for a bit, and all joint pain stopped.

Glucosamine, interestingly enough, is the saccharide that counteracts gluten. It

also

helps heal the gut. Kefir does a good job too.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

37 is quite old it seems to get arthritis nowadays.

Saw in a current affair recently that A LOT of kids as young as 5 getting

arthritis that bad they cant even paly sport or RUN with their mates.

But anytime to get arthritis really is unacceptable

_____

From: Elaine [mailto:itchyink@...]

Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2004 7:18 PM

Subject: Re: dietary protocol for degenerative arthritis?

I always read with great interest the various ailments people have and how

they use diet to treat them. now i have one of my own -- i have just been

diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in my left ankle. i'm only 37 for

crap's sake. i suffered a bad break in that ankle almost 20 years ago and it

is now full of hardware (plate and pins). i'm getting lots of sharp pains. i

have already had a lower back disc degenerate to a sliver from a spinal

fracture (many, many years of unhealthy living are probably more to blame

than the fractures).

I feel confident i can halt further degeneration through diet, but is it

possible to regenerate cartilage? I'm trying to eat gelatin daily. are the

chondroitin/glucosamine (sp?) supplements worthwhile? TIA for any advice. Oh

yes, and i'm on day two of gluten free Heidi. I've heard it helps with

arthritis so i'm hopeful.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

Ive read instances with body Electronics of cartilage regrowing ect back to

normal capacity.

Apparently it's medically " impossible " (IE doctors got NFI how to fix so

it's impossible)

As to the TRUTH of this actually occurring is another matter however.

_____

From: Elaine [mailto:itchyink@...]

Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2004 7:18 PM

Subject: Re: dietary protocol for degenerative arthritis?

I always read with great interest the various ailments people have and how

they use diet to treat them. now i have one of my own -- i have just been

diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in my left ankle. i'm only 37 for

crap's sake. i suffered a bad break in that ankle almost 20 years ago and it

is now full of hardware (plate and pins). i'm getting lots of sharp pains. i

have already had a lower back disc degenerate to a sliver from a spinal

fracture (many, many years of unhealthy living are probably more to blame

than the fractures).

I feel confident i can halt further degeneration through diet, but is it

possible to regenerate cartilage? I'm trying to eat gelatin daily. are the

chondroitin/glucosamine (sp?) supplements worthwhile? TIA for any advice. Oh

yes, and i'm on day two of gluten free Heidi. I've heard it helps with

arthritis so i'm hopeful.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

Amazing ...you have exactly the same break at the same age as I had.

My ankle was badly broken from a horseback riding fall at 17. It

healed with quite a bit of scar tissue but I have no hardware or

pins in it. At 35 I started traing for a marathon as I had no clue

this would be bad for my ankle.....can't spell stupid well enough

for this one! The only time I had experienced pain before this was

when I went on a only fruit before lunch diet. However not long

after I ran the marathon I started having severe pains that finally

got me at 37 to an ortho surgeon. His suggestion was ankle fusion.

I said no and he told me most likely by the time I was 45 I would be

crawling back to him. I'm now 50. I wish I'd known about NT in my

30s but my diet has always been fairly clean of sugar and other crap

food. It think that was one thing that saved my ankle.

Over the past few years I've been getting some fairly sharp pains

that I seem to be able to control with the Wetzel's butter oil/ CLO

combo. I've been using it daily for the past 2 years and recently

doubled my dose to 1 tsp butter oil/day. I really think the Wulzen

anti-inflamation factor is helpful. I also try to get gelatin down

daily. I often add extra gelatin to my broths (I use either Bernard

Jensen's or Great Lakes gelatin) I also add pig skin to my beef

broths to up the gelatin content.

There are some interesting studies from Europe on the effects of

gelatin on osteoarthritis. Don't have the references to them but

found them through the Homo Optimus site.

http://www.ahoa.org.au/cgi-bin/cgiforum.pl?

thesection=default & start=-1

(the diet is way to high in pork for my to tolerate but I think some

of the concepts are great)

I also take glucosamine/condroitin and SAMe for inflamation control.

I use a parrafin wax bath the help circulation ...when I can

remember.

I'm very particular about shoes. I never wear heels or flats without

some serious cushioning and support in the shoe. I've also reduced

my impact excercises using non-impact and weight training to

accomplish the same thing. However I do try to walk a bit daily.

Ceytl Meriystole (sp?) is also helpful. Do a search on

osteoarthritis in this forum as it was discussed earlier this year

with some good inputs.

I need to leave for work but will think on this one more and get

back with you.

BTW....for some good news...I have awful nice skin for a 50 year old.

Since all the osteoarthritis protocols help increase collagen the

results show up everywhere!

Take care,

Lynn

--- In , " Elaine " <itchyink@s...>

wrote:

> I always read with great interest the various ailments people have

and how

> they use diet to treat them. now i have one of my own -- i have

just been

> diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in my left ankle. i'm only

37 for

> crap's sake. i suffered a bad break in that ankle almost 20 years

ago and it

> is now full of hardware (plate and pins). i'm getting lots of

sharp pains. i

> have already had a lower back disc degenerate to a sliver from a

spinal

> fracture (many, many years of unhealthy living are probably more

to blame

> than the fractures).

>

> I feel confident i can halt further degeneration through diet, but

is it

> possible to regenerate cartilage? I'm trying to eat gelatin daily.

are the

> chondroitin/glucosamine (sp?) supplements worthwhile? TIA for any

advice. Oh

> yes, and i'm on day two of gluten free Heidi. I've heard it helps

with

> arthritis so i'm hopeful.

> Elaine

[Guest guest]

Elaine-

>I always read with great interest the various ailments people have and how

>they use diet to treat them. now i have one of my own -- i have just been

>diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in my left ankle.

I'm not up on the distinctions between different kinds of arthritis, but

Mercola's latest newsletter has an article which might be of interest.

http://www.mercola.com/2004/feb/25/cod_liver_oil_arthritis.htm

>> For the first time, scientists have found human proof

>> showing that cod liver oil aids in slowing down, and

>> may even reverse, the destruction of joint cartilage

>> in patients who suffer from osteoarthritis, a painful

>> and often disabling condition.

The original article's over here.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/aaft-hpt021204.php

Mercola recommends Carlson's

>> However, with fish oil and cod liver oil I have found

>> through clinical experience that the brand definitely

>> matters. While I am sure there are a few other high

>> quality brands available in the world, the only one I

>> can currently recommend with total confidence is

>> Carlson's fish oil and cod liver oil. Carlson's quality

>> is exceptional, and their purity is documented by

>> independent organizations. I carry Carlson's fish oil

>> and cod liver oil in my " Recommended Products " section,

>> or you may be able to find it in your local health food

>> store.

but I'd expect Premier (the stuff Radiant Life sells) is at least as effective.

-

[Guest guest]

Elaine, my mother has used barley grass powder or tablets for her arthritis

and that has helped her more than anything. But different things work for

different people, most likely depending on the cause of the arthritis.

I do wonder that it helps, tho, as according to Heidi barley grass also

contains a bit of gluten. But there again, it may depend on whether it is

actually gluten causing the arthritis, or something else. In some people it

evidently does, but it may not be the cause in every case.

You might want to try a herbal formula by Dr. called BF & C or

Bone, Flesh & Cartilage. Google for it, you'll come up with lots of info.

It comes in various forms including tea, tincture, and even a salve. I use

the salve for when my shoulders and neck get tight and sore from sitting at

the computer too long, and it really helps. I rubbed it on my niece's back

when she was complaining of her back hurting, and she said it helped. My

mother also uses it on her knees when the arthritis acts up there. It's

supposed to not only relieve pain, but also help rebuild bone, flesh and

cartilage (thus the name).

~ Fern

From: " Elaine " <itchyink@...>

> I always read with great interest the various ailments people have and

how

> they use diet to treat them. now i have one of my own -- i have just been

> diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in my left ankle. i'm only 37 for

> crap's sake. i suffered a bad break in that ankle almost 20 years ago and

it

> is now full of hardware (plate and pins). i'm getting lots of sharp

pains. i

> have already had a lower back disc degenerate to a sliver from a spinal

> fracture (many, many years of unhealthy living are probably more to blame

> than the fractures).

>

> I feel confident i can halt further degeneration through diet, but is it

> possible to regenerate cartilage? I'm trying to eat gelatin daily. are

the

> chondroitin/glucosamine (sp?) supplements worthwhile? TIA for any advice.

Oh

> yes, and i'm on day two of gluten free Heidi. I've heard it helps with

> arthritis so i'm hopeful.

> Elaine

[Guest guest]

<<I'm not up on the distinctions between different kinds of arthritis, but

Mercola's latest newsletter has an article which might be of interest.

>>>

I am combating this same problem myself. I have 4 herniated discs in my

lower back and now a pinched nerve. They say also moderate degeneration.

Probably also in my neck but i have not confirmed this yet.. So, i have

been researching this a bit too. I read the Mercola info and tried the

Carlsons but it takes 2 or 3 times as much Carlsons as it does other brands

such as Old World Icelandic. If you go to the files section of this group

there is an article there about Vit. A. I think that it came from the Weston

Price site. Also the Weston Price site does have some helpful info.

Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

I also try to get gelatin down

>daily. I often add extra gelatin to my broths (I use either Bernard

>Jensen's or Great Lakes gelatin)

lynn, do you think they're equivalent from a nutritional perspective? or do

you think one is better than the other? how do price and taste compare

between the two?

I also add pig skin to my beef

>broths to up the gelatin content.

WHERE do you get pig skin? i've thought about adding it to my diet as i want

to support my collagen better, but don't know where to find it. a caveat is

that i wouldn't want it from factory farm pigs.

>BTW....for some good news...I have awful nice skin for a 50 year old.

>Since all the osteoarthritis protocols help increase collagen the

>results show up everywhere!

that's what i'm aiming for - improved skin. do all of the arthritis

foods/supps you mentioned support collagen? any that you think are better

than others for collagen support? thanks :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

> Re: dietary protocol for degenerative arthritis?

>

[Guest guest]

Suze....hmmmm, well your questions are the same one I wonder.

--->Bernard Jensens vs Great Lakes gelatin.......I don't know. I need

to call the companies. My guess is that they may be the same. I'm not

sure who all the actull gelatin producers are but I bet Bernard

Jensen buys their gelatin from someone and repackages it.

On price great lakes is cheaper as it be bought in bulk although I

haven't bought it bulk yet. I also think I read somewhere that all

gelatin has a tiny amount of MSG added to it . I really need to

call these companies.

> WHERE do you get pig skin? i've thought about adding it to my diet

as i want

> to support my collagen better,

You don't want it from regular pig producers. I buy mine from a very

tiny farm in the middle of Georgia. They are committed to raising

thier pigs organically and pastured. She may be willing to ship some

skin to you ....I'll email you off list as they aren't interested in

becoming a big producer and are very private.

One more place...Caw Caw Creek Farms in SC,

http://www.cawcawcreek.com/. I had some of their pork this past

weekend at a conference and it's excellent. Theyn may be willing ot

sell you the skins.

The problem is that it's no piece of cake to figure out what to do

with them! I've added them to my beef broths and it really ups the

gelatin but I don't like the taste much. Very strong taste. I think I

need help figuring out how to work with these.

> that's what i'm aiming for - improved skin. do all of the arthritis

> foods/supps you mentioned support collagen? any that you think are

-----> not all support collagen regenreation. Some are geared towards

reducing inflamation as that will destroy collagen. I think anything

that helps build collagen will build and supports it all over your

body. I don't see how it would differentiate joint from skin. My

experience has been that.... even glucosamine seems to help skin.

BTW...The woman I buy pork from has incrediable skin. She told me

once they go through 1 qt of lard a week! They live in the middle of

rural Georgia and live mostly off what they produce so they eat pork

constantly (and some chicken and beef)

She's a beautiful, thin, red-head whose outside all the time and I

bet rarely uses sunscreen. I have no idea how old she is but she said

she get's carded and people are really surprised when they see her

license.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Suze, have you considered MSM (methyl-sulfonyl-methane)? It's supposed to

be a natural collagen builder. Plus has many other benefits.

~ Fern

From: " Suze Fisher " :

> that's what i'm aiming for - improved skin. do all of the arthritis

> foods/supps you mentioned support collagen? any that you think are better

> than others for collagen support? thanks :-)

[Guest guest]

>The problem is that it's no piece of cake to figure out what to do

>with them! I've added them to my beef broths and it really ups the

>gelatin but I don't like the taste much. Very strong taste. I think I

>need help figuring out how to work with these.

Epicurean magazine had a recipe for " rolled pork skin " in

an article about Italian cooking, I think it was. They cooked

the skin, then rolled it into little rolls secured with a toothpick,

I think, in a broth of red sauce. It was in a Dr.s office so I don't have

the mag. But, it seems there would be some recipes under

" real Italian cooking " . Someone posted one Italian recipe

for cooked spleen ... they seem to eat everything!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Suze, have you considered MSM (methyl-sulfonyl-methane)? It's

supposed to

> be a natural collagen builder. Plus has many other benefits.

Fern have you had success with MSM? If so how much did you use?

I've tried it over the years and felt like it made no difference.

But some people swear by it.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

I've only recently started using MSM, so it's too early to tell I think. I

started taking it to see if it would help with my neck and shoulders ...

they tend to get rather stiff and achey. I think maybe it is helping. But

it's hard to tell what is actually helping when I'm doing several things at

once. I capsule my own and take 2 " 0 " capsules in the morning and 2 in

the evening.

I imagine the fact that it works some and not for others has something to

do with 1) the quality of MSM you use, and 2) whether it's actually what

your body needs.

Guess we'll keep on experimenting. What were taking MSM for?

~ Fern

Re: dietary protocol for degenerative arthritis?

> > Suze, have you considered MSM (methyl-sulfonyl-methane)? It's

> supposed to

> > be a natural collagen builder. Plus has many other benefits.

>

> Fern have you had success with MSM? If so how much did you use?

> I've tried it over the years and felt like it made no difference.

> But some people swear by it.

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

>--->Bernard Jensens vs Great Lakes gelatin.......I don't know. I need

>to call the companies. My guess is that they may be the same. I'm not

>sure who all the actull gelatin producers are but I bet Bernard

>Jensen buys their gelatin from someone and repackages it.

>On price great lakes is cheaper as it be bought in bulk although I

>haven't bought it bulk yet. I also think I read somewhere that all

>gelatin has a tiny amount of MSG added to it . I really need to

>call these companies.

OK, thanks lynn, i will look into them.

>

>> that's what i'm aiming for - improved skin. do all of the arthritis

>> foods/supps you mentioned support collagen? any that you think are

>

>-----> not all support collagen regenreation. Some are geared towards

>reducing inflamation as that will destroy collagen. I think anything

>that helps build collagen will build and supports it all over your

>body. I don't see how it would differentiate joint from skin. My

>experience has been that.... even glucosamine seems to help skin.

hunh...i didn't know that. glucosamine's also good for binding gluten, it

seems - double benefit :-)

>

>BTW...The woman I buy pork from has incrediable skin. She told me

>once they go through 1 qt of lard a week! They live in the middle of

>rural Georgia and live mostly off what they produce so they eat pork

>constantly (and some chicken and beef)

>She's a beautiful, thin, red-head whose outside all the time and I

>bet rarely uses sunscreen. I have no idea how old she is but she said

>she get's carded and people are really surprised when they see her

>license.

i wouldn't describe my skin as incredible but i've been carded a time or two

since i turned 40 :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

> Re: dietary protocol for degenerative arthritis?

>

[Guest guest]

>

>Suze, have you considered MSM (methyl-sulfonyl-methane)? It's supposed to

>be a natural collagen builder. Plus has many other benefits.

>

thanks fern. i just take MSM when i drink as someone posted here that it

helps with a hangover, which i've found is true :-) (i think sulfur helps

the liver detoxify alcohol.)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> >Suze, have you considered MSM (methyl-sulfonyl-methane)? It's supposed

to

> >be a natural collagen builder. Plus has many other benefits.

>

> thanks fern. i just take MSM when i drink as someone posted here that it

> helps with a hangover, which i've found is true :-) (i think sulfur

helps

> the liver detoxify alcohol.)

I think it helps detoxify the liver in general. But it's not just

beneficial for the liver. Sulfur is needed in many parts/cells of our

bodies, which is why it benefits the skin (and hair and nails also).

~ Fern

[Guest guest]

>>--->Bernard Jensens vs Great Lakes gelatin.......I don't know. I need

>>to call the companies. My guess is that they may be the same. I'm not

>>sure who all the actull gelatin producers are but I bet Bernard

>>Jensen buys their gelatin from someone and repackages it.

>>On price great lakes is cheaper as it be bought in bulk although I

>>haven't bought it bulk yet. I also think I read somewhere that all

>>gelatin has a tiny amount of MSG added to it . I really need to

>>call these companies.

>

lynn, it looks like the great lakes gelatin is made from *both* beef and

pork, so i think i'll go with the bernard jensen brand which is just beef.

what *form* do you get it in? i see it comes in capsules and powder, but

don't see if it comes in gel form. radiant life doesn't specify the form

they sell. do you get yours from radiant life? if not, what's your source?

TIA :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------