RE: (i need some sanity:) Fruitarians

[Guest guest]

yes, and the nonsense about teeth as well.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

*****

People just talk out of their fruitarian behinds sometimes.

*****

Hee hee, very true, Michele. Don't forget the biggest myth of all in the

raw/living/fruitarian communities: All symptoms (deficiencies) are the body

detoxing . I know a girl or two losing their hair (maybe zinc deficient).

Some people tell them this is detox! It's thought that you have to get all

the old toxic cells out first before you can build a new, healthy raw body.

Dangerous nonsense.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> *****

> People just talk out of their fruitarian behinds sometimes.

> *****

>

> Hee hee, very true, Michele. Don't forget the biggest myth of all in the

> raw/living/fruitarian communities: All symptoms (deficiencies) are the

body

> detoxing . I know a girl or two losing their hair (maybe zinc deficient).

> Some people tell them this is detox! It's thought that you have to get

all

> the old toxic cells out first before you can build a new, healthy raw

body.

> Dangerous nonsense.

>

> Deanna

Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian woman who

let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her deathbed. Very

dangerous!

Wanita

[Guest guest]

I myself am a little baffled about this. While I think there are

important things to be learned both from fruitarian and raw

lifestyles, I think the notion that all symptoms are detox is very

odd--and sadly it can be such a trap. The more symptoms that arise,

the more " detox " , the more waiting out for the symptoms to end, the

more they increase, the more waiting...

I know a mother who was eating raw and attributed any and all

symptoms of hers or her childrens as " detox " . She would go to

doctors, practitioners of all kinds for certain persisitent problems

they were having, and each person told her " You have to eat *some*

cooked and perhaps even meat foods " and instead of thinking that

perhaps all those people might be right--she decided she couldn't

find a practitioner who was progressive enough.

Most recently they have begun to eat cooked vegetarian meals, and

she refers to this as engaging in her primary addiction. I've also

been baffled at the sheer number of different herbal and

nutrtitional supplements she takes, claiming she is " correcting her

brain chemistry " . But that's another issue.

I remember going through something similar when I was vegan (4 years

as a vegan, 3 years prior as a vegetarian) in my 20's, eating only

raw veggies, and taking tons of supplements because my bones and

joints were aching, my teeth were chipping, hair was thinning, I was

constantly getting sick. Never mind that I was consuming only

vegetable oils and so much soy product (soy milk, tofu, tempeh) that

my periods were extremely irregular (sometimes no period for 2-3

months, then breakthrough bleeding at odd intervals, or periods

every 2 weeks for 6 weeks, and no I was not pregnant!). I thought I

needed more vitamins or the right herbal preparation!

It was a ND/Chinese medicine practitioner who finally said I had to

eat cooked veggies and meat. Within 30 days all those

symptoms " magically " dissappeared.

Anyway, in recent days I was re-reading the stated purpose of this

list (tee hee, that's another issue!), and noticed the phrase that

said something about needing some raw foods, both vegetable and

meat. I have to admit there is a good possibility I don't eat

*enough* raw foods! We almost always eat fruits raw, but veggies, I

suppose some of that is seasonal.

I hope I am not offending anyone, because I am also mindful of the

stories of some of our list mates who have cured various long term

ailments by radical dietary alteration, including raw or elimination

of starches, etc. I think our bodies are all so different, but I am

alarmed at the instant response to everyone trying a raw or

fruitarian diet that any symptoms are detox.

Enuff outta me, Leann

> > *****

> > People just talk out of their fruitarian behinds sometimes.

> > *****

> >

> > Hee hee, very true, Michele. Don't forget the biggest myth of

all in the

> > raw/living/fruitarian communities: All symptoms (deficiencies)

are the

> body

> > detoxing . I know a girl or two losing their hair (maybe zinc

deficient).

> > Some people tell them this is detox! It's thought that you have

to get

> all

> > the old toxic cells out first before you can build a new,

healthy raw

> body.

> > Dangerous nonsense.

> >

> > Deanna

>

> Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian

woman who

> let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her

deathbed. Very

> dangerous!

>

> Wanita

[Guest guest]

At 12:36 PM 2/27/2004, you wrote:

>Most recently they have begun to eat cooked vegetarian meals, and

>she refers to this as engaging in her primary addiction. I've also

>been baffled at the sheer number of different herbal and

>nutrtitional supplements she takes, claiming she is " correcting her

>brain chemistry " . But that's another issue.

i really agree with you here, leann. especially on the subject of

suppliments. it's (in my opinion) really dangerous to get into this brain

set. it's so much better to use your herbs as food - whole! (or whole as

tea) - and in general, i think we should live our lives (or eat our food)

in such a way as to require the most minimal intervention possible. a good

balanced NT diet (preferably with no grains, thank you!) should do the

trick 90% of the time. save those herbs for when they really count!

my $.02

-katja

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/27/04 2:19:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rawbabymama@... writes:

> There is a

> diet called the Negative Calorie diet which is based on eating foods that

> take more calories to digest than they are worth. I'm not sure how accurate

> it all is, but all the foods are fruits and veggies, and I think flounder.

> Why would someone feed a child like that??

Because if you convert the letters " c-a-l-o-r-i-e-s " to Greek numerals and

add them together you yield the sum, 666?

Chris

[Guest guest]

I KNOW! Some chick and one guru told me told me the holes in my nails where

from fat detox/withdrawal. People told me Gaby's excema/constipation was

detox, I was like, from what!!!???? He was two weeks old. When I was B12

deficient, oh it's detox. My exfriend, a raw guru, blamed my excema on

detox. Then he attacked my diet, stating too much fruit, too much

salt/spices/vinegar/oil. It was NONE of things because he knew NOTHING. Good

lord.

Venting, must breathe

Michele

>From: " Deanna " <nativenutrition@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: RE: (i need some sanity:) Fruitarians

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:49:44 -0600

>

>*****

>People just talk out of their fruitarian behinds sometimes.

>*****

>

>Hee hee, very true, Michele. Don't forget the biggest myth of all in the

>raw/living/fruitarian communities: All symptoms (deficiencies) are the

>body

>detoxing . I know a girl or two losing their hair (maybe zinc deficient).

>Some people tell them this is detox! It's thought that you have to get all

>the old toxic cells out first before you can build a new, healthy raw body.

>Dangerous nonsense.

>

>Deanna

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Well, any diet that makes someone take 10 minutes to answer, " How ya been "

can't be good. I used to aspire to be fruitarian, but whenever I tried it

the cravings for greens and nuts got to me w/in a couple days. I don't know

how people even get as far as they do. There are women who just feed their

babies fruits and then wonder why they aren't gaining weight. There is a

diet called the Negative Calorie diet which is based on eating foods that

take more calories to digest than they are worth. I'm not sure how accurate

it all is, but all the foods are fruits and veggies, and I think flounder.

Why would someone feed a child like that?? My website (which I have not

updated in two + years, so excuse the pro raw ness) has a link to these

people who killed their baby through malnutrition. She was not the first or

the last. www.geocities.com/rawbabymama

I need to get on that and fix it to reflect what I've learned. Hee, I have

an article on natural childbirth in Nison's second book, all the people

going to my website will be like, traitor!!!

Michele

>From: " Wanita Sears " <wanitawa@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: (i need some sanity:) Fruitarians

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:03:04 -0500

>

> > *****

> > People just talk out of their fruitarian behinds sometimes.

> > *****

> >

> > Hee hee, very true, Michele. Don't forget the biggest myth of all in

>the

> > raw/living/fruitarian communities: All symptoms (deficiencies) are the

>body

> > detoxing . I know a girl or two losing their hair (maybe zinc

>deficient).

> > Some people tell them this is detox! It's thought that you have to get

>all

> > the old toxic cells out first before you can build a new, healthy raw

>body.

> > Dangerous nonsense.

> >

> > Deanna

>

>Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian woman who

>let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her deathbed. Very

>dangerous!

>

>Wanita

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

*******

Anyway, in recent days I was re-reading the stated purpose of this

list (tee hee, that's another issue!), and noticed the phrase that

said something about needing some raw foods, both vegetable and

meat. I have to admit there is a good possibility I don't eat

*enough* raw foods! We almost always eat fruits raw, but veggies, I

suppose some of that is seasonal.

I hope I am not offending anyone, because I am also mindful of the

stories of some of our list mates who have cured various long term

ailments by radical dietary alteration, including raw or elimination

of starches, etc. I think our bodies are all so different, but I am

alarmed at the instant response to everyone trying a raw or

fruitarian diet that any symptoms are detox.

Enuff outta me, Leann

*******

Very well said, Leann. Obviously, our needs are individual. Raw fruits and

veg are very important. Enzymes are good. Dr. Mercola advises 1/3 raw

plant foods. Some may need more than this. I know I do personally.

But what you shared in your novel <grin> and the all or nothing approach in

the raw movement is dangerous. Dietary racism is sometimes advocated. You

know, cooked people are toxic, find raw friends?

The limited research is very mixed. Raw foodists have great intestinal

microflora and really bad teeth. I think it can help people short term for

disease, like you said, or even seasonally it might be healthful.

Thanks for sharing.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

******

Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian woman who

let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her deathbed. Very

dangerous! - Wanita

*******

How sad, Wanita. A diet should serve the person, not the other way around

( a saying from www.beyondveg.com). Many with eating disorders are drawn to

raw/living/fruitarian diets, and their relationship with food remains

dysfunctional, unfortunately.

Peace,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Yeah I ate fruitarian for a bit.

Im all for experimenting ect but their excuses for detox are bullshit and

extremist.

_____

From: Deanna [mailto:nativenutrition@...]

Sent: Friday, 27 February 2004 11:50 PM

Subject: RE: (i need some sanity:) Fruitarians

*****

People just talk out of their fruitarian behinds sometimes.

*****

Hee hee, very true, Michele. Don't forget the biggest myth of all in the

raw/living/fruitarian communities: All symptoms (deficiencies) are the body

detoxing . I know a girl or two losing their hair (maybe zinc deficient).

Some people tell them this is detox! It's thought that you have to get all

the old toxic cells out first before you can build a new, healthy raw body.

Dangerous nonsense.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

This fruitarin diet I believe helped me get into the position of my current

injury as I worked out HARD.

I think I sapped so many nutrient from my body that s broke.

_____

From: Deanna [mailto:nativenutrition@...]

Sent: Saturday, 28 February 2004 7:04 AM

Subject: RE: (i need some sanity:) Fruitarians

******

Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian woman who

let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her deathbed. Very

dangerous! - Wanita

*******

How sad, Wanita. A diet should serve the person, not the other way around

( a saying from www.beyondveg.com). Many with eating disorders are drawn to

raw/living/fruitarian diets, and their relationship with food remains

dysfunctional, unfortunately.

Peace,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Hey Leann. I think at the point when I went raw, which was on a whim, if I

had felt any worse than I did, which was nearly impossible, I would have

stopped immediately. What kept me going was (1) weight loss, I was 250 and

it was just melting w/no hunger/effort (2) All my symptoms of asthma,

migraines, diabetes, PMS, bladder/kidney infections, eczema, etc vanished

within weeks and (3) My energy skyrocketed. My periods where light, painless

and regular for the first time in my life, dropping from 7-10 days to 4-5. I

felt fabulous. When I got pregnant, though, the nausea and then adding

cooked starches totally did me in.

It did not take me long feeling like crap to realize something was WRONG,

and when raw didn't fix it quickly, like it did the first time, I started

searching for something else. I simply do not understand stubborn

fanaticism, especially when it keeps someone eating in such a way that is

destroying their health. The detox myth keeps people in the raw diet -

making money for raw gurus - past the point where common sense would tell

them to stop. I had no negative " detox " symptoms; I didn't even lose too

much weight, as many do, I just evened out to a healthy weight for my

height/build. I've seen people looking like skeletons, proclaiming the

abundance of raw foods. I look at them like, eating a lettuce leaf and half

an apple isn't raw, its anorexia!!!

I could go on about this for a while. Let me get to work.

take care,

Michele

>From: " ebaypeeps " <happygardeners@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: (i need some sanity:) Fruitarians

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:36:58 -0000

>

>I myself am a little baffled about this. While I think there are

>important things to be learned both from fruitarian and raw

>lifestyles, I think the notion that all symptoms are detox is very

>odd--and sadly it can be such a trap. The more symptoms that arise,

>the more " detox " , the more waiting out for the symptoms to end, the

>more they increase, the more waiting...

>

>I know a mother who was eating raw and attributed any and all

>symptoms of hers or her childrens as " detox " . She would go to

>doctors, practitioners of all kinds for certain persisitent problems

>they were having, and each person told her " You have to eat *some*

>cooked and perhaps even meat foods " and instead of thinking that

>perhaps all those people might be right--she decided she couldn't

>find a practitioner who was progressive enough.

>

>Most recently they have begun to eat cooked vegetarian meals, and

>she refers to this as engaging in her primary addiction. I've also

>been baffled at the sheer number of different herbal and

>nutrtitional supplements she takes, claiming she is " correcting her

>brain chemistry " . But that's another issue.

>

>I remember going through something similar when I was vegan (4 years

>as a vegan, 3 years prior as a vegetarian) in my 20's, eating only

>raw veggies, and taking tons of supplements because my bones and

>joints were aching, my teeth were chipping, hair was thinning, I was

>constantly getting sick. Never mind that I was consuming only

>vegetable oils and so much soy product (soy milk, tofu, tempeh) that

>my periods were extremely irregular (sometimes no period for 2-3

>months, then breakthrough bleeding at odd intervals, or periods

>every 2 weeks for 6 weeks, and no I was not pregnant!). I thought I

>needed more vitamins or the right herbal preparation!

>

>It was a ND/Chinese medicine practitioner who finally said I had to

>eat cooked veggies and meat. Within 30 days all those

>symptoms " magically " dissappeared.

>

>Anyway, in recent days I was re-reading the stated purpose of this

>list (tee hee, that's another issue!), and noticed the phrase that

>said something about needing some raw foods, both vegetable and

>meat. I have to admit there is a good possibility I don't eat

>*enough* raw foods! We almost always eat fruits raw, but veggies, I

>suppose some of that is seasonal.

>

>I hope I am not offending anyone, because I am also mindful of the

>stories of some of our list mates who have cured various long term

>ailments by radical dietary alteration, including raw or elimination

>of starches, etc. I think our bodies are all so different, but I am

>alarmed at the instant response to everyone trying a raw or

>fruitarian diet that any symptoms are detox.

>

>Enuff outta me, Leann

>

>

>

>

> > > *****

> > > People just talk out of their fruitarian behinds sometimes.

> > > *****

> > >

> > > Hee hee, very true, Michele. Don't forget the biggest myth of

>all in the

> > > raw/living/fruitarian communities: All symptoms (deficiencies)

>are the

> > body

> > > detoxing . I know a girl or two losing their hair (maybe zinc

>deficient).

> > > Some people tell them this is detox! It's thought that you have

>to get

> > all

> > > the old toxic cells out first before you can build a new,

>healthy raw

> > body.

> > > Dangerous nonsense.

> > >

> > > Deanna

> >

> > Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian

>woman who

> > let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her

>deathbed. Very

> > dangerous!

> >

> > Wanita

>

_________________________________________________________________

Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide.

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[Guest guest]

LOL!!!

>From: ChrisMasterjohn@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: (i need some sanity:) Fruitarians

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:32:30 EST

>

>In a message dated 2/27/04 2:19:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>rawbabymama@... writes:

>

> > There is a

> > diet called the Negative Calorie diet which is based on eating foods

>that

> > take more calories to digest than they are worth. I'm not sure how

>accurate

> > it all is, but all the foods are fruits and veggies, and I think

>flounder.

> > Why would someone feed a child like that??

>

>Because if you convert the letters " c-a-l-o-r-i-e-s " to Greek numerals and

>add them together you yield the sum, 666?

>

>Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What did she die of, do you remember?

> > *****

> Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian

woman who

> let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her

deathbed. Very

> dangerous!

>

> Wanita

[Guest guest]

> ******

> Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian

woman who

> let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her deathbed.

Very

> dangerous! - Wanita

> *******

>

> How sad, Wanita. A diet should serve the person, not the

> other way around ( a saying from www.beyondveg.com). Many

> with eating disorders are drawn to raw/living/fruitarian

> diets, and their relationship with food remains

> dysfunctional, unfortunately.

I remember when that story was posted here. The woman died of an

easily treatable illness: appendicitis. That woman endured a week of

agony at the suggestion of her raw diet guru before dying. As much as

I dislike the invasive medical industrial complex, it does a pretty

good job with bodily trauma, and if your appendix is about to

explode, you're better off having the sucker removed than lay

writhing in bed on the advice of some nutbag advocating an

unbalanced, nutritionally deficient diet.

[Guest guest]

> ******

> Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian woman

who

> let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her deathbed. Very

> dangerous! - Wanita

> *******

>

> How sad, Wanita. A diet should serve the person, not the other way around

> ( a saying from www.beyondveg.com). Many with eating disorders are drawn

to

> raw/living/fruitarian diets, and their relationship with food remains

> dysfunctional, unfortunately.

>

> Peace,

> Deanna

Is terribly sad, Deanna. Example of how ideology or conditioning can replace

natural instinct and distinctions for your body's food.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Deb,

Don't remember. Will try to find in archives when I get a chance.

Unfortunately, archives seems to only find by word in subject. This list

isn't good with subject changes so can't guarantee answer.

Wanita

> What did she die of, do you remember?

>

> > Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian

> woman who

> > let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her

> deathbed. Very

> > dangerous!

> >

> > Wanita

[Guest guest]

,

Good memory! Mine failed me on that, which it shouldn't have. Did post in

response to that that my DH when he was 6 had his appendix burst on

Christmas night. He'd eaten a lot of grapes with seeds, didn't feel well,

waited till end of day to say anything and not ruin day. The grape seeds

aggravated his appendix dr. said. Therefore, fruit seeds, fruitarian woman

came up. DH was critical, died and resuscitated in ambulance on way to

Boston hospital, collapsed lung, spent a month in hospital getting his body

clean of poisons from rupture. Agree with you totally on trauma medicine. DH

would not have his left leg now if not for it since then.

> I remember when that story was posted here. The woman died of an

> easily treatable illness: appendicitis. That woman endured a week of

> agony at the suggestion of her raw diet guru before dying. As much as

> I dislike the invasive medical industrial complex, it does a pretty

> good job with bodily trauma, and if your appendix is about to

> explode, you're better off having the sucker removed than lay

> writhing in bed on the advice of some nutbag advocating an

> unbalanced, nutritionally deficient diet.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>What did she die of, do you remember?

>

>

>> > *****

>> Year or two ago here someone posted an article about a fruitarian

>woman who

>> let herself die rather than eat anything but fruit on her

>deathbed. Very

>> dangerous!

>>

>> Wanita

>

i posted that, and IIRC it was a herniated appendix or something of that

nature. i forwarded the info from another list and the woman in question was

following some raw vegan guru (whose name escapes me). she apparently

followed his protocol for a diseased appendix, although i think her friends

were encouraging her to seek medical attention. i saw some posts from the

guru after she died and he defended himself, saying something to the effect

that she did the right thing. i'm a little hazy on the details though as it

was a while ago.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/29/04 11:54:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> i posted that, and IIRC it was a herniated appendix or something of that

> nature. i forwarded the info from another list and the woman in question was

> following some raw vegan guru (whose name escapes me). she apparently

> followed his protocol for a diseased appendix, although i think her friends

> were encouraging her to seek medical attention. i saw some posts from the

> guru after she died and he defended himself, saying something to the effect

> that she did the right thing. i'm a little hazy on the details though as it

> was a while ago.

That's right... but the issue wasn't the eating of fruit. It was medical

attention versus water fasting without moving on her bed. The absence of food

and movement was supposed to alleviate the inflammation.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>In a message dated 2/29/04 11:54:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>s.fisher22@... writes:

>

>> i posted that, and IIRC it was a herniated appendix or something of that

>> nature. i forwarded the info from another list and the woman in

>question was

>> following some raw vegan guru (whose name escapes me). she apparently

>> followed his protocol for a diseased appendix, although i think

>her friends

>> were encouraging her to seek medical attention. i saw some posts from the

>> guru after she died and he defended himself, saying something to

>the effect

>> that she did the right thing. i'm a little hazy on the details

>though as it

>> was a while ago.

>

>That's right... but the issue wasn't the eating of fruit. It was medical

>attention versus water fasting without moving on her bed. The

>absence of food

>and movement was supposed to alleviate the inflammation.

>

>Chris

right, i realized i should've cleared that up when wanita posted that she

died of eating fruit. it wasn't that per se (although perhaps that

contributed to her condition?), it was for lack of medical attention as you

said.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------