Mg/small fish Ca datum

[Guest guest]

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> OK, so what is the *Mg* content of mola? Or dried shrimp?

> Seems like nuts, greens, and fish are all good sources

> of Mg too -- kimchi often has nuts and always has greens.

> Though maybe the darker green stuff should be added

> to the pale Napa ...

>

> -- Heidi

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Oh geez, I'm a dummy. While thinking about Mg in fish and how to

reply to your post, I went to pull up a pdf I have in my files about

nutrient data in lesser-studied Eskimo foods because I remember that

land and sea meat were the primary Mg sources, and I came across a

pdf I had forgotten about that is about the same species of fish and

has much more useful info!

So first let me give you data from:

Larsen T, Thilsted SH, Kongsbak K, Hansen M. Whole small fish as a

rich calcium source. Br J Nutr. 2000 Feb;83(2):191-6.

(The abstract for this was posted a few weeks ago too, but I forgot I

had gotten the full-text pdf.)

Here's data on Mg and other minerals in mola I didn't realize I had!

N : Ca : P : Mg : Fe : Zn : Mn : Cu =

109 : 49.6 : 27.7 : 2.1 : .606 : .672 : .073 : .010

The ratios are really the relevant thing, but just for reference, the

absolute numbers are g/kg dry mass.

So mola have an even poorer Ca:Mg like milk; however, my calculations

with this data show mola offer .50mg/cal, compared to .21mg/cal for

3.25% milk. I think the poor Ca:Mg ratio just reflects the extreme

concentration of Ca in small fish. Other fish have excellent Ca:Mg

ratios, but there is massive variation. The USDA data for small

sardines shows a mineral profile incredibly similar to milk, right

down to the poor Ca:Mg ratio (except check out that lode of

selenium!). The USDA data for anchovies doesn't give any size info

and has a much different Ca:Mg ratio. Larger fish probably have

better Ca:Mg ratios, but then the bones are thicker and the Ca is

probably less available. On a per calorie basis, the Mg levels in

fish seem to cluster together pretty well, the variation probably

coming from fat content. However, again, the Ca:Mg ratios vary

widely, and many are very favorable. We also have to look at ratios

with P, which also vary widely and are often unfavorable. All this

needs to be taken with a grain of salt since the quantities in food

are not the final word in a given digestive tract. Given that

absorption rates are fairly low for these minerals, I don't know how

significant the intake ratios really are.

I'm pasting my current personal Mg density list below. Note that

veggies, especially some sea veggies, are by far the best Mg sources,

so, yeah, definitely go for more dark greens in your kimchi!

Contrary to popular belief, nuts are not especially great sources of

Mg, but useful in large quantities (but what about omega-6 excess?)

and roughly comparable to land and water meats. Overall, fish are

better Mg sources than nuts, and I would hazard a guess that any

minerals from animal flesh foods are more available than from nuts.

I checked the pdf about nutrients in the Canadian Arctic diet and

most of their Mg comes from land and water meats, with salmon and

grayling being a bit higher than other, but most of the data hovering

around a similar range. The idea is that people are eating large

quantities of meats (or nuts in some cultures), so even though the

concentration is not high, they are still getting a lot. The mineral

ratios are very favorable in meats though, often more Mg than Ca. If

an Inuit is eating, say, two pounds of meat in one day (maybe some

mix of salmon, moose, caribou, seal, etc), then they're pulling in

around 300mg or so of Mg from that. (By the way, the most

concentrated sources of Ca in the Canadian Arctic diet are cited as

bearded seal intestine, moose bone marrow, bird flesh, grayling and

salmon flesh, and fish eggs, but curiously no mention of bones is

made, so we are left to wonder.)

I don't have any data for Mg in small shrimp, but assuming the

concentration would be similar on a per-calorie basis for different

sizes, the USDA data suggest they fit in with most other sea meats.

As far as ratios, again, I think it's a matter of Ca being

concentrated in the skeletons of small animals, and I don't know if

lopsided Ca:Mg ratios are actually relevant to anything. I'll just

keep eating a varied diet with lots of land and sea veggies. (For

what it's worth, Mg is the only substance I supplement in my

extremely nutrient-dense diet; I dissolve some Mg citrate in my soups

so it works out to about 200mg per day. It's tentative until I have

time to investigate this topic to my satisfaction.)

By the way, the " whole small fish " article above found milk and mola

to both work very well for rats as Ca sources, and controlled for

protein intake at two levels. They found a slight advantage for

milk, but concluded the mola were still very valuable as a Ca (and

protein) source, which was a question that hadn't been addressed by

previous research. Even though it's on rats, it's a little more

interesting than the other article, but both are important in

addressing a seriously overlooked topic. So small fish are good!

[full pdfs available off-list.]

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

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Magnesium Density

[from USDA unless * or otherwise noted]

mg Mg/cal

swiss chard 4.3

beet greens 3.8

kelp 3.7 (MCSV), 2.8 (USDA)

alaria 3.5 (MCSV)

spinach 3.4

irishmoss 2.9 (USDA)

snail 2.8

agar 2.5 (USDA)

wakame 2.4 (USDA)

horseradish tree leafy tips 2.3

arugula 1.9

watercress 1.9

sweetpotato greens 1.7

pak-choi cabbage 1.5

garden cress 1.4

spearmint 1.4

coconut water 1.3

chicory greens 1.3

chrysanthemum greens 1.3

turnip greens 1.2

mustard greens 1.2

nori 1.2 (MCSV)

coriander seed 1.1

coriander greens 1.1

moth beans 1.1

peppermint 1.1

radish sprouts 1.0

butterhead greens 1.0

dulse 1.0 (MCSV)

watermelon seed .93

daikon radish .89

endive .88

cos or romaine greens .82

pe-tsai cabbage .81

iceberg lettuce .80

dandelion .80

celery .79

lambsquarter .79

pollock, Atlantic .73

amaranth .71

mung sprouts .70

kohlrabi .70

oyster, eastern, wild .69

kale .68

grayling* .65

buckwheat .64

cabbage .63

radish .63

ginger .62

broccoli .62

cauliflower .60

radicchio .57

oyster, eastern, farmed .56

quinoa .56

mung beans .54

turbot, european .54

beet root .53

cashews .52

oats .50

almonds .50

mola* .50

pilinuts-canarytree .42

bass, striped .41

cod, Atlantic .39

cuttlefish .38

mackerel, Atlantic .37

pine nuts .37

ptarmigan, meat* .35

pike, northern .35

tuna, bluefin .35

shrimp, mixed species .35

walnuts, Black .33

peanuts, Spanish .33

smelt, rainbow .31

milk, bovine, skim .31

caribou, heart* .29

rockfish, Pacific .28

moose, muscle meat* .27

grouse, meat* .27

trout, rainbow, wild .26

hazelnuts .26

walnuts, English .24

trout, rainbow, farmed .23

carp .23

bearded seal intestine* .22

caribou, muscle meat* .22

pistachio nuts .22

milk, bovine, 3.25% .21

milk, caprine 4.14% .20

herring, Atlantic .20

salmon, Atlantic, wild .20

macadamia nuts .18

pecans .18

milk, ovine 7% .17

salmon, Atlantic, farmed .15

coconut meat .09

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[Guest guest]

Wow, thanks for such nice research!

Yeah, those greens " beet " the rest!

(BTW the Inuit ate seal intestine contents,

which I think had digested seaweed in

them ...).

OK, so the Koreans use dark greens a lot

in kimchi, and kelp,

(no snails that I know of though) ....

so I'll just be sure to add some (or make

that mustard-green kimchi, or maybe beet-green

kimchi ... )

-- Heidi

>----------------------------------------

>Magnesium Density

>[from USDA unless * or otherwise noted]

>

>mg Mg/cal

>

>swiss chard 4.3

>beet greens 3.8

>kelp 3.7 (MCSV), 2.8 (USDA)

>alaria 3.5 (MCSV)

>spinach 3.4

>irishmoss 2.9 (USDA)

>snail 2.8

>agar 2.5 (USDA)

>wakame 2.4 (USDA)

>horseradish tree leafy tips 2.3

>arugula 1.9

>watercress 1.9

>sweetpotato greens 1.7

>pak-choi cabbage 1.5