Re: Adaptations (was POLITICS - Evolution | Creation | Intelligent Design)

[Guest guest]

*******

Heidi-but the fossil record AND human history make it pretty clear that

animals change slowly over time.

- And sometimes very quickly.

*******

How about human racial changes compared to dietary adaptations? I am just

thinking that light skinned Northern Europeans synthesize vitamin D from

sunlight better than darker skinned people living in lower latitudes. Yet

wheat intolerance remains a problem for many of these same Northern

Europeans. So it seems some adaptations occur more rapidly than others?

No?

Does anyone know the timelines involved between migration to Northern Europe

and the beginning of grain agriculture in Northern Europe?

Much obliged.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

April - Where are the fossils of animals changing to humans?

April, I am referring to changes in humans, not changing animals to humans.

You must admit racial differences exist. You don't need fossils to see

that. I was attempting to take politics out of the discussion. My mistake.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Where are the fossils of animals changing to humans?

RE: Adaptations (was POLITICS - Evolution | Creation |

Intelligent Design)

*******

Heidi-but the fossil record AND human history make it pretty clear that

animals change slowly over time.

- And sometimes very quickly.

*******

How about human racial changes compared to dietary adaptations? I am just

thinking that light skinned Northern Europeans synthesize vitamin D from

sunlight better than darker skinned people living in lower latitudes. Yet

wheat intolerance remains a problem for many of these same Northern

Europeans. So it seems some adaptations occur more rapidly than others?

No?

Does anyone know the timelines involved between migration to Northern Europe

and the beginning of grain agriculture in Northern Europe?

Much obliged.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

From: Deanna -- << Does anyone know the timelines involved between migration to

Northern Europe and the beginning of grain agriculture in Northern Europe?>>

Have a look at --

http://worldworld.com/ -- [Timeline of Time]

Found the following quote there by Albert Einstein -- " Two things are infinite:

the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. " :-)

http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline.htm

Goggling will net many more results.

Dedy

[Guest guest]

Hi Dedy. Thanks so much for the handy links that I was too lazy to find

meself.

D

Have a look at --

http://worldworld.com/ -- [Timeline of Time]

Found the following quote there by Albert Einstein -- " Two things are

infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the

universe. " :-)

http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline.htm

Goggling will net many more results.

Dedy

[Guest guest]

Marla:

I deleted your post before I should have, so can't quote it, but the

characterization

that some of us are saying wheat is bad based on evolution

is just not accurate. The studies about wheat started in

the 1950s, because of celiac disease. That disease was

killing thousands of children and babies ... tragically. They would

just waste away and die. It was considered an incurable disease,

more or less a death sentence, since the late 1800's.

Then during WW2 there were bread shortages, and suddenly

the disease disappeared in the areas where no bread was

available. THAT was what prompted the research, and as

the research has gone on, the evidence that wheat causes

problems keeps piling up. But I would encourage you to

read the studies .yourself ... they are good, observation based studies

done mostly with rats and mice and dogs even, which takes

the question of " human evolution " out of the question altogether.

The idea of that we aren't evolved to eat wheat (or other grains,

maybe) is an attempt at an *explanation* of an *observed condition*,

not the other way around. Admittedly there are some folks

who start eating " Paleo " ONLY because it seems logical given

that grain eating is a recent phenomenon, but those folks are

really in the minority. Most folks only give up grains (or just wheat)

unwillingly and after much denial, in an attempt to get well.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> April - Where are the fossils of animals changing to humans?

>

>April, I am referring to changes in humans, not changing animals to humans.

>You must admit racial differences exist. You don't need fossils to see

>that. I was attempting to take politics out of the discussion.

>My mistake.

>

>Deanna

a minor nitpick - anthropologists are in consensus, i believe, in the theory

that there is only ONE race - the *human* race. however, the human race is

divided into *ethnicities* (which are more similar than dissimilar - races

would have more dissimilarities).

you make an interesting point which makes me wonder what ethnicity adam and

eve were, and how did multiple ethnicities come to be without evolution? how

do creationists explain this?

you also made a good point in an earlier email about light skin being an

adaptation to northern climes. it's been well established that before modern

times it was of great survival benefit for light skinned folk in northern

latitudes to be able to synthesize a good amount of vit D rapidly and for

darker skinned folk closer to the equator, not to.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze - a minor nitpick - anthropologists are in consensus, i believe, in

the theory that there is only ONE race - the *human* race. however, the

human race is divided into *ethnicities* (which are more similar than

dissimilar - races would have more dissimilarities).

Deanna - Okay, thanks for the clarification. I only had one course in

cultural anthropology long ago, otherwise I claim ignorance :-)

Suze - you make an interesting point which makes me wonder what ethnicity

adam and eve were, and how did multiple ethnicities come to be without

evolution? how do creationists explain this?

Deanna - The only thing that comes to my mind would be the Tower of Babel

Old Testament stuff. You know, where languages changed. Perhaps the

argument could be made that ethnicities changed then as well. I don't know,

as I am certainly no Bible scholar neither :(although I am a lector in

church).

[Guest guest]

From: Deanna << The only thing that comes to my mind would be the Tower of Babel

Old Testament stuff. You know, where languages changed. Perhaps the argument

could be made that ethnicities changed then as well. >>

Deanna,

Noah's 3 sons were the Bible's explanation for the 3 different 'ethnicities' or

'races' known to those who lived in the 'Biblical' era.

Dedy

[Guest guest]

*******

Dedy - Noah's 3 sons were the Bible's explanation for the 3 different

'ethnicities' or 'races' known to those who lived in the 'Biblical' era.

*******

Dedy,

I didn't know this, thanks. Do you know where Cain and Abel got their

wives? Would they have been siblings, or a gift from God that remains

secret?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

From: Deanna << I didn't know this, thanks. Do you know where Cain and Abel got

their wives? Would they have been siblings, or a gift from God that remains

secret?>>

Deanna,

LOL... you forgot to put a :-) at the end of you post..!

I once asked a rabbi if he could explain the dinosaurs and fossil evidence

etc... His reply was... are you ready?... They were all created [as fossils!!!]

along with the original 6 day feat for the purpose of testing our 'faith' in

god...!!!

Maybe Monty Python have a good answer for that one:-)

Dedy

[Guest guest]

Hi Heidi:

Been really short on computer time recently, so haven't been able to

respond to everything. Didn't want you to think that I was ignoring

your responses to me, just haven't gotten a chance for proper reply.

Actually, I should have headed out the door already 5 minutes ago!

And just to let you know, I don't completely disagree with everything

you've written. For example, re: legislation being made based

on " someone else's mail. " I agree with you. That is a problem. The

wheat discussions I was referring to was in the somewhat distant past

(probably over a year ago now). No time to elaborate or dig up info,

but maybe when I get back home tomorrow.

Take care!

Marla

>

>

> Marla:

>

> I deleted your post before I should have, so can't quote it, but

the characterization

> that some of us are saying wheat is bad based on evolution

> is just not accurate. The studies about wheat started in

> the 1950s, because of celiac disease. That disease was

> killing thousands of children and babies ... tragically. They would

> just waste away and die. It was considered an incurable disease,

> more or less a death sentence, since the late 1800's.

>

> Then during WW2 there were bread shortages, and suddenly

> the disease disappeared in the areas where no bread was

> available. THAT was what prompted the research, and as

> the research has gone on, the evidence that wheat causes

> problems keeps piling up. But I would encourage you to

> read the studies .yourself ... they are good, observation based

studies

> done mostly with rats and mice and dogs even, which takes

> the question of " human evolution " out of the question altogether.

>

> The idea of that we aren't evolved to eat wheat (or other grains,

> maybe) is an attempt at an *explanation* of an *observed condition*,

> not the other way around. Admittedly there are some folks

> who start eating " Paleo " ONLY because it seems logical given

> that grain eating is a recent phenomenon, but those folks are

> really in the minority. Most folks only give up grains (or just

wheat)

> unwillingly and after much denial, in an attempt to get well.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>I once asked a rabbi if he could explain the dinosaurs and fossil

>evidence etc... His reply was... are you ready?... They were all

>created [as fossils!!!] along with the original 6 day feat for the

>purpose of testing our 'faith' in god...!!!

oh, too funny! so much for Jurassic park...

>Maybe Monty Python have a good answer for that one:-)

i should hope so since MP has an answer for everything else ;->

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dedy muses - I once asked a rabbi if he could explain the dinosaurs and

fossil evidence etc... His reply was... are you ready?... They were all

created [as fossils!!!] along with the original 6 day feat for the purpose

of testing our 'faith' in god...!!!

Ah, well the rabbi must not be as keen as some of the Biblical literalists

I've read from. Don't you know that dinosaurs weren't around until Job's

day? And boy, with that kind of ecology, I am much surprised that there

isn't more than than Job 40 describing it! Gosh, how ever did we mammals

survive when the dinos didn't? ;-) Oh wait, I forgot: Those evil beasts

all drown in the great flood of Genesis. LOL

But seriously, isn't there some physical evidence of the flood?

I certainly mean no offense to anyone. Jesus taught in parables quite

often, so I think more of the Bible may be allegorical as well.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

PS. My 10 year old chimes in: " If dinosaurs were in Noah's flood, wouldn't

the plesiosaurs, ichthyosaurs, ammonites and all the marine creatures have

been able to survive it? Not only that, Noah and his ark might have been

attacked by them! "

Gosh, how ever did we mammals survive when the dinos didn't? ;-) Oh wait,

I forgot: Those evil beasts all drown in the great flood of Genesis. LOL

[Guest guest]

>But seriously, isn't there some physical evidence of the flood?

There are several big floods that have been said to be " the "

flood in Noah. One of which was when the Mediterranean flooded

(though that one hasn't gone down!). People lived in that basin and

it flooded rather rapidly and became a sea. There were some

others that must have been rather traumatic to humankind also.

The " flood " stories are found in many cultures, and are thought

to have been based on *something*.

None of the theories really match the Noah story though to the

extent that would be ok with a literalist.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

@@@@@@@@

> PS. My 10 year old chimes in: " If dinosaurs were in Noah's flood,

wouldn't

> the plesiosaurs, ichthyosaurs, ammonites and all the marine

creatures have

> been able to survive it? Not only that, Noah and his ark might

have been

> attacked by them! "

@@@@@@@@

Ah yes, 10 years old... Those were the good ol' days!

Goes back to my theory that the human intellectual peak is between 10-

20, with slightly variation across the population...

Us geezers just get by on our " collection " ...

Mike

SE Pennsylvania