timely article on babyfat

[Guest guest]

mothering magazine is always so timely for me...

i'm going to bother to actually type this whole article, because it's kind

of central to what we've been talking about. here are my thoughts on it:

for a good long portion of my postnatal experience, i was able to be pretty

sane about my body and all the fat everywhere. but as amber approaches her

first birthday, it's becomming more and more of a struggle to not be

completely distressed about my appearance. even though now i only have 10

pounds left to lose, i feel so disgusted with how i look most of the time.

i think a big part of it is nursing: when amber only nursed, i was able to

feel a real sense of importance about every morsel i ate, because she

*needed* good stuff in my milk. then again, back then i was eating wheat!!

what a catch-22! now i eat better but i'm also becomming more and more

panicked to " be pretty " again, and i wonder if that's because she's eating

food now and i know it's good food...

bah. anyway. brains are funny things.

march-april 2004 mothering magazine

baby fat - the new mom's struggle with body image, by kristin beck.

(parenthetical comments mine)

long before i became pregnant, i felt sensitive to the various messages out

there about pregnancy and motherhood. as with other things in life, once

your radar switches on, you're astounded that you're completely surrounded

by data. natural birth or drugs, cradle or family bed, which stroller

stolls best...all of this information had been out there before; i'd just

never had a place for it in my brain. suddenly, the mommy file was open for

business.

i must have been five months pregnant when i saw the commercial. there she

was on the left, the unhappy, frumpy woman. nothing seemed to be going

right for her; the photograph was badly lit and a little out of focus, and

her name was Before. on the right was her successful alter ego. no wonder

she was smiling - she had the good sense to hire a professional

photographer. looking good and knowing it, her name was After. as we all

know from endless exposure to such ads, After was a few pounds lighter than

her sad friend. the message was clear: if you're lighter, you're happier.

poor Before never had a chance. what could she possibly have to smile

about? and then a detail jumped out at me, a tiny prop in Before's arms:

her newborn baby.

(ok, at this point i started to get choked up. associating a baby with sad

Before and thinking about the mother almost blaming the child for the fat

really got me upset. i certainly don't blame amber for my appearance, but i

do " know " that it's a side-effect of the lifestyle i've chosen...this stuff

is really complex. and painful!)

then i saw another ad, and another, all for different companies. too often

i noticed in those slim fast (etc) ads, the " before " photograph featured a

new mother. from an advertising point of view, it makes sense: here is a

population of " overweight " women who might lose weight rather quickly, the

shed pounds credited to the weight loss program. but the subtext is that

there is something wrong with postnatal fat, that it's something to

correct, and that in fact, a woman holding her tiny newborn baby is worthy

of criticism. (another note: yesterday in boston i saw a woman with a tiny

baby, and she was getting out a bottle - and the baby was upset. she wasn't

moving fast enough for me - i wanted the baby to be happy NOW. and the next

thought that popped into my mind was: what is she doing out with such a

small baby? she isn't even fat enough to have a baby that small! what is

she doing, thinking she's recovered enough to be out so soon?...which made

me wonder. was i mad cause she was raising her daughter with a bottle? was

i mad cause she was thinner and obviously recovered more quickly than i

did? was the baby a preemie or otherwise undernourished and therefore

looked younger/smaller than it really was? um, probably yes all around...)

these women, whose life-giving extra girth is the reason we are all here,

are being used to illustrate that shameful state of womanhood, the fat lady.

a pregnant woman has our society's blessing to eat heartily, even

irrationally. her whimsical appetite is accomodated by her disheveled

partner's midnight run for jelly bellies and a monte cristo sandwich.

(insert guilt for eating hotdogs here, along with judgement for pregnant

mothers who eat jelly bellies!! what a hipocrit!) she is, after all,

" eating for two " . often, it's the first time a woman can begin to satisfy

her lifelong hunger, which long ago she learned to squelch.

i had heard it said again and again: fecund is beautiful; men go wild for a

shiny-haired earth mama. this was hard to believe, if only for the

logistics of sexualizing such an oval person, but also because of the way

society views fat in general. men find pregnant women sexually irresistible

(um, they do? that's kinda ...ew.) - but only, i was careful to note, if

they don't gain " too much " weight and only if the weight is contained

within the pregnancy. (ha! i gained 60 pounds when i was pregnant!!!)

pregnant women are given an opportunity to really get down to the business

of food and not worry about crucial glares - until the baby comes. after

that, it's a different story.

our friends Before and After drove this point home for me. having made this

stark realization, i began listening to what women were saying about

maternal weight gain. every woman seems to have an opinion about it,

mothers and non-mothers alike. many remark that they'd love to have another

baby, " if it weren't for the weight gain " . this attitude made me wonder: do

women fear the maternal weight gain so dreadfully that they limit the

number of children they will have, put off motherhood, avoid it altogether

- or worse, compromise their pregnancies, or the baby's or their postnatal

health, for a skinny body? more than a few times, i paused to consider

whether i, too, would be repulsed by my body after i'd given birth.

after all those years of " research " , six months ago i finally did have a

baby. from all the hype, i was pretty sure i'd hate the way i looked once

i'd given birth. i'd prepared myself for the eventuality that my body would

be misshapen, that i'd be afraid to stand nude in front of the mirror

because i'd be so unrecognizably stretched-out and gross.

to my great surprise, i actually love my body more now than before i got

pregnant. i view my body with a previously unknown sense of respect and

awe. yes, i'm bigger and stretchier and jigglier, and it's been 15 months

since i fit into my jeans. but in the meantime i made a whole other person!

i stand taller now and walk with greater purpose. i'm proud of my baby

body, knowing that it gave my son a comfy vessel in which to gestate and

has been the source of all his nourishment since birth. when he's hungry,

he cries for me to bring my body to him for a feeding. when he's tired, he

wants my body to comfort him - an angular form won't do - just ask my

husband. i'm eating enough food to nurse successfully, and that's as much

food as i need. rather than feeling desperate to " loste the weight " , i am

reveling in my baby and my body, enjoying him every moment, without

entertaining those intrusive, culturally prescribed thoughts.

what was supposed to have been my Before picture is, happily, my After.

----

ok, now. i don't think i believe this article, really. i seriously doubt

that she is free of the intrusive culturally prescribed thoughts, but then

again, maybe i'm just horrible for not being free of them. still, i'm

eating my fat like a good mama - bacon, eggs, steak with the fat left on,

butter, milk, coconut cream. just no grains! i bet this woman eats grains...

to be clear, though, amber is totally thriving. no one believes she's only

11 months old. she's fine. i'm fine. just it's a struggle. i was proud of

my baby body too and i'm proud of everything except the aforementioned

hotdogs and grains...but i also want my baby to have a healthy, *fit*

mother who is capable of being athletic. my mother wasn't. and i know we

should accept varying body shapes and sizes and all, but i don't want her

to grow up thinking that it's ok to be un-sporty. or something. perhaps

these thoughts should stay *inside*...

oh man. 30 didn't bring all the wisdom i thought it would.

-katja

[Guest guest]

*******

...but i also want my baby to have a healthy, *fit*

mother who is capable of being athletic. my mother wasn't. and i know we

should accept varying body shapes and sizes and all, but i don't want her

to grow up thinking that it's ok to be un-sporty. or something. perhaps

these thoughts should stay *inside*...

*******

Whew, Katja. Breathe deeply. You can't change the past food habits, learn

from them and go on. The future isn't here yet, so work on the present, eh?

I need to remind myself this stuff all the time anyway, lol. Yoga helps.

I know it's still the big winter there. I lived in Minnesota for a time, so

I know about long winters. We get winter here even, but you would laugh at

it. We are in growing zone 7 and I can do a spring and autumn garden, so I

should just shut up now!

Anyway, it's flabby time at the end of winter, isn't it? Just being inside

and cooped up more makes me feel all frumpy. Come spring you can *wear*

Amber and go hiking and planting and all that good stuff. Show her what a

*Power Mom* you are!

Try doing some leg workouts in the meantime: squats, walking lunges, step

ups. If your joints are healthy, that is. You don't even need any

dumbbells to get started, but they would be nice, of course. Sore legs make

you forget all about those body image problems!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

thanks, deanna!

>Whew, Katja. Breathe deeply. You can't change the past food habits, learn

>from them and go on. The future isn't here yet, so work on the present, eh?

>I need to remind myself this stuff all the time anyway, lol. Yoga helps.

i love yoga. when i saw that you are a yogi i was like, hmmm. a sane NT

yogi. why don't you live in vermont? i've tried several instructors within

a 30 mile radius, but most of them are vegan/macrobiotic/soy freaks. which

just doesn't work, because eventually it *does* come around to that stuff.

so i know enough to practice on my own, but not enough to be *jazzed* to

practice on my own. which also sucks, because out here, you get a lot of

alone...

>I know it's still the big winter there. I lived in Minnesota for a time, so

>I know about long winters. We get winter here even, but you would laugh at

>it. We are in growing zone 7 and I can do a spring and autumn garden, so I

>should just shut up now!

where is here, again?

>Anyway, it's flabby time at the end of winter, isn't it? Just being inside

>and cooped up more makes me feel all frumpy. Come spring you can *wear*

>Amber and go hiking and planting and all that good stuff. Show her what a

>*Power Mom* you are!

heee. we do wear amber all the time. www.mayawrap.com! it's true about

cabin fever - i didn't realize that this really set in right about the time

that i was getting a little coop-crazy...

>Try doing some leg workouts in the meantime: squats, walking lunges, step

>ups. If your joints are healthy, that is. You don't even need any

>dumbbells to get started, but they would be nice, of course. Sore legs make

>you forget all about those body image problems!

hee. i have dumbbells! and i have a recumbant exercycle, which we got after

i was recovered enough to start riding it. it's actually pretty nice,

though finding the time is hard. in general, exercising - even yoga, which

i love! - is hard when you're not wired for it. my mother had a back

injury, and strongly anti-advocated any kind of exercise. which is a shame,

because i'm quite driven, and i think i could have been a pretty good

athlete. now that i'm an adult, i've tried several times to get my drive to

translate into physical activity. i was successful with that in kickboxing

(*not* tai-bo!), but after a while i got hurt badly enough to have to quit.

i am also successful with dancing - oh man! i love to dance! not like

boppin' around either, but full on goth-clubbin', which is intensely aerobic.

anyway. i think what all that says is " whine, whine whine, i'm toooo

laaaaaaaa-zeeeeeee... "

-katja, who's going to bike now.

>Deanna

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>to be clear, though, amber is totally thriving. no one believes she's only

>11 months old. she's fine. i'm fine. just it's a struggle. i was proud of

>my baby body too and i'm proud of everything except the aforementioned

>hotdogs and grains...but i also want my baby to have a healthy, *fit*

>mother who is capable of being athletic. my mother wasn't. and i know we

>should accept varying body shapes and sizes and all, but i don't want her

>to grow up thinking that it's ok to be un-sporty. or something. perhaps

>these thoughts should stay *inside*...

You know, if you are only 10 lbs overweight I REALLY wouldn't stress it.

Those last 10 lbs don't budge easily, esp. if you are nursing. Work out!

Get muscular! THAT will make you feel better, I guarantee it. Nothing

like strong thighs and biceps and being able to lift a 60-lb bag of

something to make you feel good. You may gain weight as you

gain muscle, but you'll get thinner and less jiggly and after awhile

you won't stress over the numbers. When I had my second baby I

couldn't bend one knee at all (arthritic) or walk to the mailbox

without being winded. Now I do partial one-legged squats and heft

25-lb barbells. It ain't rocket science, and I'm a lot older than you!

Your body will probably want and need a little fat to make milk. It

really is there for a reason. But if you can do pushups and situps

and squats and run a few laps, you won't care much. Really. And no

one else will notice the fat much either -- " fit " looks good.

-- Helga (warrior-maiden)

[Guest guest]

*****

where is here, again? - Katja

*****

I am near the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, but I am from California.

****

but full on goth-clubbin', which is intensely aerobic.

****

You go, girl! I used to go to Hollywood every nearly weekend way back when.

My significant other just ain't the dancin' type

Deanna

[Guest guest]

At 01:37 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:

>*****

> where is here, again? - Katja

>*****

>

>I am near the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, but I am from California.

oh hey! that's where i grew up! in keller - back when it had one gas

station, one 5-isle grocery store, and 5 baptist churches. i hear now it's

*teeming*

-katja

[Guest guest]

Katja,

What Helga said.

At 10:20 AM 3/3/04 -0800, you wrote:

>

>>to be clear, though, amber is totally thriving. no one believes she's only

>>11 months old. she's fine. i'm fine. just it's a struggle. i was proud of

>>my baby body too and i'm proud of everything except the aforementioned

>>hotdogs and grains...but i also want my baby to have a healthy, *fit*

>>mother who is capable of being athletic. my mother wasn't. and i know we

>>should accept varying body shapes and sizes and all, but i don't want her

>>to grow up thinking that it's ok to be un-sporty. or something. perhaps

>>these thoughts should stay *inside*...

>

>You know, if you are only 10 lbs overweight I REALLY wouldn't stress it.

>Those last 10 lbs don't budge easily, esp. if you are nursing. Work out!

>Get muscular! THAT will make you feel better, I guarantee it. Nothing

>like strong thighs and biceps and being able to lift a 60-lb bag of

>something to make you feel good. You may gain weight as you

>gain muscle, but you'll get thinner and less jiggly and after awhile

>you won't stress over the numbers. When I had my second baby I

>couldn't bend one knee at all (arthritic) or walk to the mailbox

>without being winded. Now I do partial one-legged squats and heft

>25-lb barbells. It ain't rocket science, and I'm a lot older than you!

>

>Your body will probably want and need a little fat to make milk. It

>really is there for a reason. But if you can do pushups and situps

>and squats and run a few laps, you won't care much. Really. And no

>one else will notice the fat much either -- " fit " looks good.

>

>-- Helga (warrior-maiden)

>

>

MFJ

There are no stupid questions, but there are plenty of silly ones.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/04 5:47:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> me too! i'm thinking of setting up an NN addict list for those who can't

> handle the withdrawl symptoms.

Oh please don't do that to me. I post enough on this list alone!

Chris

[Guest guest]

> oh hey! that's where i grew up! in keller - -katja

Then I have to ask: Do you sound like a real live Texan?

Yeeeehaaaaaaaaaah! - Deanna

[Guest guest]

>> maybe i'm just horrible for not being free of them <<

Katja, speaking from someone who lived most of her life with a severe eating

disorder and hating her body, the word that leapt out of this sentence for me is

" horrible. " There is nothing either horrible or unhorrible about how you are

feeling. They are just thoughts and feelings and judgements. You have them, they

arise from your brain, but they don't make you " horrible " or " unhorrible. " Yes,

they MEAN something, but by grabbing onto them and using them to tell you what

kind of person you are, you're making them too big a part of you.

You say you are TEN POUNDS over what you want to be. Katja, I've already lost 83

pounds and I'm not even halfway to where I want to be. You should have the body

you want, but to feel as bad as you do over ten pounds is, in my personal

opinion, something to question. I respect the goals people set for their own

bodies, but sometimes those goals arise not out of a sincere desire to be

healthy, strong, and well, but out of impulses and compulsions we'd be better

off without.

You have mentioned you've had eating disorders in the past, so I suspect you

know a lot of this. Food and body shape/size are very primal and troubling

issues for many women - maybe most of us - and it can be very hard to try to

navigate this issue. You mention that you're 30, and when I was 30, I wasn't

even as far along as you are. So that is great. But your instinct that you might

need to think about this is, IMO, a good one.

No one can really judge this but you, but I'd relax, eat well and luxuriously,

forget those ten pounds, and lift some weights. Turn some fat to muscle, ignore

what the scale says, and if in six months or so you still feel a bit flabby or

have put on FAT (not weight, FAT), you might want to try to fine tune your

weight lifiting program to be more aggressive and support more fat burning.

I agree with what people say on this list, that the number on the scale is

pretty meaningless. If you converted your excess fat to muscle, you might weigh

more (or not), but I bet you'd like how you looked a lot better. You are eating

a diet that will support the production of muscle, you're not obese, you're

young and healthy. This is not by way of telling you that your concerns don't

make sense, they do. But sometimes we need a bit of an external reality check,

and this was my effort to offer you one.

Christie

[Guest guest]

At 03:04 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:

> > oh hey! that's where i grew up! in keller - -katja

>

>Then I have to ask: Do you sound like a real live Texan?

>Yeeeehaaaaaaaaaah! - Deanna

i did, but then i studied languages and linguistics, and now, provided i'm

not speaking with another texan, i sound like a normal human being.

[Guest guest]

>

>

>You have mentioned you've had eating disorders in the past, so I suspect

>you know a lot of this. Food and body shape/size are very primal and

>troubling issues for many women - maybe most of us - and it can be very

>hard to try to navigate this issue. You mention that you're 30, and when I

>was 30, I wasn't even as far along as you are. So that is great. But your

>instinct that you might need to think about this is, IMO, a good one.

> This is not by way of telling you that your concerns don't make sense,

> they do. But sometimes we need a bit of an external reality check, and

> this was my effort to offer you one.

>

>Christie

hey - you're right, i do know this, but i wasn't looking at it that

way...what i'm really grappling with is not really the weight at all, but

the old trappings trying to go somewhere with the raw materials they've got

to work with. i just wasn't seeing it for that.

i manage to work out one of every three days, but it must be time to find

some more time, and, i think, now that i can get this into some better

perspective, to get the heck over it!

hey, wheee!

[Guest guest]

Amen Christie. Women are often taught as young girls that the only source

of identity is their bodies. Isn't this why eating orders are so prevalent

in our society in females?

Thank you for sharing a bit of your personal journey. I think it really

helps to look at things in perspective - and I'm not just talking about

comparing weight/body issues. You see, one of my children died tragically

and suddenly as a toddler several years ago. A healthy family cherished

daily is priority #1. It helps to be reminded of that from time to time as

we get wrapped up in *things*.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> It helps to be reminded of that from time to time as

> we get wrapped up in *things*.

Thanks Deanna!

The emphasis in your sentence on the word *things* made me compare

how I treat things and how I treat my body. Like Katja, I'm

struggling with weight loss, though not as successfully. All

unwittingly you've made me acknowledge that I've always treated

taking care of myself the same way I've treated my things: pretty

casually. While far from abusing my things, I take no particular

special care of them either.

heh, I only seem to be able to take care of one thing at a time.

Lately it's been my skin, which is looking better and better.

However, I feel like I've been sacrificing my weight for the sake of

clearer skin! Grrrr! Okay, okay, so I just want to have it all!

I've pretty much come to the conclusion of ensuring that the care of

my skin becomes habit before I start in on my weight again.

*laughs* It might take other people only 27 days to create a habit,

but getting myself to do anything straight for 27 days is near

impossible! (Except putting on my glasses every morning, I've been

doing that every day for 25 years! But no, I don't clean them

everyday.)

Yes, I'm the one who is bored today!

Ghislaine

[Guest guest]

Ghislaine ,

Would you mind helping me with pronouncing your name? I am dee ANN uh.

Glad one of my ramblings helped you out! My skin is dry, but I am curious

what you are doing for your skin. Is it dietary changes?

D

[Guest guest]

>

>i manage to work out one of every three days, but it must be time to find

>some more time,

here's an idea - post only 50% of what you normally do :-) if you took half

the time you spend posting to NN to work out you'd be rock hard and svelte

by now.

<weg>

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

At 05:20 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:

>here's an idea - post only 50% of what you normally do :-) if you took half

>the time you spend posting to NN to work out you'd be rock hard and svelte

>by now.

>

><weg>

bwahahahahaahaha!

plus, if i posted only 50% of what i normally do, my posts would be much

meatier!

but, alas, i can post while i'm waiting for my database latency. i can't

really bike in that minute and thirty five seconds...

[Guest guest]

=> here's an idea - post only 50% of what you normally do :-) if you

took half

> the time you spend posting to NN to work out you'd be rock hard

and svelte

> by now.

LOL...ain't that the truth....I need a NN diet. I for one have a

serious carb addiction to this site!

Lynn

[Guest guest]

> Re: timely article on babyfat

>

>

>=> here's an idea - post only 50% of what you normally do :-) if you

>took half

>> the time you spend posting to NN to work out you'd be rock hard

>and svelte

>> by now.

>

>LOL...ain't that the truth....I need a NN diet. I for one have a

>serious carb addiction to this site!

>

>Lynn

me too! i'm thinking of setting up an NN addict list for those who can't

handle the withdrawl symptoms.

only problems is it has potential to become as addictive as this one! LOL!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

I read that article on sunday and pretty much thought the same thing. And

here I am 20 pounds overweight from having just had a baby LOL! I'm not

miserable

about my body image now that I'm back to working out again, I just felt like

a blob doing nothing. Even if these 20 pounds stay at least I feel good

mentally from working out.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

I just read this article this morning and came away from it feeling very

frustrated. It is yet one more unoriginal love-your-body story. I am more

overweight since my second baby than i've ever been and i hate it. I'm too

old to be vain anymore. I don't like that my knees are achy and that the

idea of snowboarding sounds dangerous now with all this extra weight. I feel

older and less nimble. It is not good for my health, now or later.

While I would like to see women's ridiculous obsessions with thinness melt

away in this society, i also think applauding obesity is not the answer.

When my daughter asks why she can't gorge herself on candy, i always come

back with something about her teeth or health, but the truth is i don't want

to add one more kid to the mushrooming pot of juvenile obesity and diabetes.

For her sake.

This Mothering story did nothing to address this paradox that is so

inherent in our society. Yes, we are different genetic types and not all of

us, thankfully, will look like runway models (many of whom are technically

hermaphrodites, no?. I read that somewhere, maybe here). But i can't imagine

anyone's genetics making them obese. We are an overfed, underactive culture,

that's the problem. I'm thinking of putting my thoughts into a letter to

Mothering.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

At 01:06 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote:

>This Mothering story did nothing to address this paradox that is so

>inherent in our society. Yes, we are different genetic types and not all of

>us, thankfully, will look like runway models (many of whom are technically

>hermaphrodites, no?. I read that somewhere, maybe here). But i can't imagine

>anyone's genetics making them obese. We are an overfed, underactive culture,

>that's the problem. I'm thinking of putting my thoughts into a letter to

>Mothering.

>Elaine

i was thinking that too. i can't remember if i commented it or not (so if

this is a repeat, sorry!) but i just kept feeling like this woman was

TOTALLY lying to herself. in the picture, the woman looks completely

unhealthy and fat (i'm realizing, i really throw the word " fat " around

carelessly) - i didn't look like that when i *was* pregnant, much less

post-partum. i really felt like she was using her " baby body " as an excuse

to just avoid the work of getting thin (well, i'd like to avoid the work

too - so i can understand the desire, but still!)

also as i read it, i kept thinking, yeah. your " enough food " certainly

includes grains and processed foods!! i'm pretty sure it went downhill in

cattyness from there.

-katja

[Guest guest]

the tricky part is feeling a sense of self-love and self-love, even if

overweight, but not getting complacent. we have this cultural expectation

that only thin people are allowed to feel good about themselves. It's like

being mired in self-loathing because you have a broken ankle -- pointless

and contrary to healing. Countless studies now have proven love, acceptance,

positive attitudes, etc. are integral to healing and good health.

Elaine

but i just kept feeling like this woman was

> TOTALLY lying to herself.

[Guest guest]

Looks like the message I typed up yesterday didn't get through after

all. Blah

> Would you mind helping me with pronouncing your name? I am dee ANN

uh.

Would you believe that Ghislaine is a self chosen nickname? *grins*

In my family the 's' is not pronounced. I think they pronounce

the 's' up in Quebec. *shrugs* So the 'Ghis' part is pronounced the

way I've alway understood 'ghee' to be pronounced. Hard 'G' then

an 'E' sound. The 'laine' part is harder to explain as it has the

French nasal 'ain' sound. Because of the 'e' on the end, then 'n' is

pronounced. (Feminine version of the name)

> Glad one of my ramblings helped you out! My skin is dry, but I am

curious

> what you are doing for your skin. Is it dietary changes?

I asked Katja to help me with her herbalism knowledge! *grins* She

suggested that I use a cotton ball of witch hazel to clean my face

with which I think is wonderful as I am funny about rinsing soap

off. I think what helps most with the acne is the nettle tea and a

burdock/dandelion root tea. I've actually been eating really badly

lately.

Ghislaine

[Guest guest]

Brilliant Ghislaine! Lovely name you have. Thanks for assisting me so that

I don't butcher up it's proper sound.

It's beautiful!

Deanna

Would you believe that Ghislaine is a self chosen nickname? *grins*

In my family the 's' is not pronounced. I think they pronounce

the 's' up in Quebec. *shrugs* So the 'Ghis' part is pronounced the

way I've alway understood 'ghee' to be pronounced. Hard 'G' then

an 'E' sound. The 'laine' part is harder to explain as it has the

French nasal 'ain' sound. Because of the 'e' on the end, then 'n' is

pronounced. (Feminine version of the name)