Re: workout details for Elaine - painfully long and detailed

[Guest guest]

when i was working out my MAIN workout time was liek 15-20 mins

any extra time was stretchign n stuff. but primarily you dont need mroe than

20 mins if you structure your workout well

the crap you see in most books ana magazines is very inneficient ( and anti

productive )

unless you are shooting up roids

_____

From: Betsy [mailto:bettysmith997@...]

Sent: Friday, 5 March 2004 8:10 AM

Subject: workout details for Elaine - painfully long and detailed

My routine is super fast. I only have four hours from when I get

home to bedtime so I want a high-results-per-unit-time workout. I

spend about 10-15 minutes on my routine, three days a week. My

husband and I workout together in our basement so we're down there

together 25-30 minutes 3x per week. We do some light multi-tasking

while lifting to give better results-per-unit time values. Working

out gives us time to talk to each other without the distraction of

the television, I bring the mail and checkbook with me so I can pay

bills and look at magazines and catalogs, I scoop out the litter box,

and once every other week I vacuum and dust, all things we would do

anyway. And our cats love the basement and they think we go down

there just to hang out with them so it scores points with them, too.

Our house is about eight miles from the middle of nowhere and there

aren't any gyms conveniently located on the way out of the city where

we work. The family membership at a local gym was about $400 a year

so we decided to take that money and buy a weight bench for bench

presses, a squat rack that also has a pull-up bar, a barbell,

weights, colostrum, and two $5 chairs from the thrift store (my

husband took two boards and joined the chairs by screwing a board one

on each side of the legs in order to make a crude dip bar; I know,

probably not really safe, but it seems really sturdy and we're not

real heavy and we can't dip many times so we're not on it much). We

also bought a weightlifting dvd that shows how to do all the major

lifts. As we were learning proper form for the squat and deadlift,

we would watch the video and then each other and make corrections. I

had a lot of trouble with my form on both the deadlift and the

squat. I got impatient and proceeded to heavier weights and my form

got better. (I know, bad) I seem to need some weight, not my max,

in order to have good form. I don't know if that's common. We now

both have forms that match the dvd, but my form is always best when

I'm doing my mid-range load - not my lightest (or heaviest).

I'm going to go ahead and detail my muscle program since I've got a

little time today. (I'm giving a math test and I can only sit and

watch them suffer for so long.)

I'm on the WD. I imagine that helps some, but I don't know to what

extent. I lift on MWF, but don't do any cardio and I have two part-

time jobs that are both sedentary. I used to run 3 miles 2x per

week, but the only noticeable thing that did for me was give my

calves a little shape - hardly much return for 40 minutes of time.

And it wasn't helping noticeably with weight loss, either. I'll

probably add it back later this spring.

I don't have a pre-workout meal because I haven't noticed a need for

one. I won't hesitate to add one if my workout starts to suffer. My

post-workout meal is the whey*/maple syrup combo in the proportions

recommend in the WD. (*I know, bad, again. I take extra CLO to make

up for any vitamin A it's depleting) I take two colostrum along with

the whey. My husband and I think the colostrum is what really makes

the muscles grow, but we do both the whey and colostrum `cause we

don't really know what exactly is doing it and we don't want to mess

up what we got going. My husband and I started to get competitive

and made a rule that we both have to be present when we open the jar

of colostrum so that neither of us takes more and gets way bigger

than the other one. I also took Chris's recommendation and use

Jarrow colostrum. There was some discussion as to how much better

Immune Tree colostrum is, and if Immune Tree is any more effective

than Jarrow, then I'd be afraid to take it because I'd probably break

every door knob I touched.

As for the weights, I adapted what described as best as I

could. I had several questions about how he arrived at his

particular load for each set and some other stuff, but I didn't want

to bug him to death so I just guessed and experimented. I'm pretty

pleased with how it turned out. Here's what I do:

Week A

Mon: squats, bench press

Wed: dead lift, curls, dips

Fri: squats, bench press

Week B

Mon: dead lift, bench press

Wed: squat, curls, dips

Fri: dead lift, bench press

On the squat and dead lift I do what I think referred to as a

power cycle (??) where you do a series of seven sets, each set

separated by a minute. Each set consists of the following reps: 8,

5, 3, 1, 1, 1, 3. The weight gets increasingly heavy as the reps

decrease. So for example a squat workout would be:

8 - 25 lbs

5 - 30 lbs

3 - 35 lbs

1 - 55 lbs

1 - 55 lbs

1 - 55 lbs

3 - 30 lbs

Each time I workout, I add 5 lbs to each of those numbers, so next

time I squat I would start with 8 reps of 30lbs and max at 60 lbs.

Right now 5 lbs is a huge % of my total weight, but later when I'm

doing like 100-150 lbs I might use bigger increments.

On the bench press and curls, I do five sets of decreasing reps: 5,

4, 3, 2, 1. I use the same weight for each set. On Mondays I repeat

this with two different weights and on Fridays I just do one. I use

the following pattern to increase 5lbs per week:

M: 35 lbs, 30 lbs

F: 40 lbs

M: 40 lbs, 35 lbs

F: 45

M: 45, 40

F: 50

I'll eventually adopt the bench press/curl routine for the dips, but

right now I'm still working up to five dips. Eventually I'll replace

bench press with pull-ups. I can't do one pull up right now. My

husband will continue to do bench presses, though, because he wants

big arms and chest.

I've been increasing my bench press load 5 lbs per week and my squat

and dead lift amounts 15 lbs every two weeks with no sign of this

slowing down (I know, it eventually will). At first I was tempted to

do all exercises everyday, but that would take twice as much time and

I don't think I would gain twice as much weight to make it worth the

time. So I do two exercises a day and it only takes 10-15 minutes.

Betsy

[Guest guest]

Betsy, thanks so much for explaining that so thoroughly. After six weeks i

seem to have plateaued like you mention your husband did.

I have one question -- do you work to exhaustion -- till you can't lift

anymore? I used to lift regularly way back when and i was told to adjust

your weights so that you finish not being able to lift anymore, or to get to

that point just before you're supposed to finish your set. I'm wondering if

that's still considered good advice.

elaine

> My routine is super fast. I only have four hours from when I get

> home to bedtime so I want a high-results-per-unit-time workout. I

[Guest guest]

DO NOT work till failure.

1) its counterproductive

2) lower immune system ( ya ever see alot of FIT ppl gettin grun down n

stuff? )

3) recovery time is MUCH longer

4) you can gain MORE strength by no goign to failure adn also be in more

control of the weight you are using

_____

From: Elaine [mailto:itchyink@...]

Sent: Friday, 5 March 2004 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: workout details for Elaine - painfully long and detailed

Betsy, thanks so much for explaining that so thoroughly. After six weeks i

seem to have plateaued like you mention your husband did.

I have one question -- do you work to exhaustion -- till you can't lift

anymore? I used to lift regularly way back when and i was told to adjust

your weights so that you finish not being able to lift anymore, or to get to

that point just before you're supposed to finish your set. I'm wondering if

that's still considered good advice.

elaine

> My routine is super fast. I only have four hours from when I get

> home to bedtime so I want a high-results-per-unit-time workout. I

[Guest guest]

At 01:22 AM 3/5/2004, you wrote:

>Betsy, thanks so much for explaining that so thoroughly. After six weeks i

>seem to have plateaued like you mention your husband did.

elaine -

my husband, who is a long-distance runner, says that the plateau is fake,

by the way. he says that you can't let it discourage you (or, me, rather!)

and that i have to keep going, even if i'm just doing the minimum workout

at that point. also he generally says to up the protein after a few days of

plateau, so that the body is ready to break down/build up muscle again. fwiw!

-katja

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Elaine " <itchyink@s...>

wrote:

<<<Betsy, thanks so much for explaining that so thoroughly. After six

weeks i

seem to have plateaued like you mention your husband did.>>>

My husband's been plateaued since college – he's 30 now! One more

advantage to increasing load frequently is that it makes workouts

exciting and something to look forward to. Dh used to bench 60 lbs

every single workout and do the same exact routine every time. After

a few weeks he got bored and eventually quit. Now each workout is

different and noticeably productive. We have a chalkboard with the

weekly workout schedule posted and it's exciting to see where we'll

be and to look back at the weenie weights we started with.

<<<I have one question -- do you work to exhaustion -- till you can't

lift

anymore?>>>

I don't know from a science/physiology perspective whether it's a

good idea or not, but I know from what I've been doing that it's not

necessary to workout till exhaustion in order to see impressive

results. And I still have loads of energy after a workout so that I

can still cook dinner, garden, speed-clean, watch tv without falling

asleep, or whatever else I want to do after my workout.

Back when I used to run, I would run until exhaustion. To the point

I would actually fall asleep in the car on the way home (I wasn't the

one driving). I was too tired to cook dinner when we got home so dh

would have cook on running evenings, which is not a good thing unless

you *really* like waffles. When I end my workout, I feel like I

could do the next day's workout, which is a good way to end it, imo.

Betsy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/5/04 10:55:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,

bettysmith997@... writes:

> <<<Betsy, thanks so much for explaining that so thoroughly. After six

> weeks i

> seem to have plateaued like you mention your husband did.>>>

If you plateau, stop doing what you're doing and do something else. It's

pretty simple-- nothing works for more than a couple months.

Bettsy wrote:

> My husband's been plateaued since college – he's 30 now! One more

> advantage to increasing load frequently is that it makes workouts

> exciting and something to look forward to.

I don't ever not increase my weight. I can't imagine going to the gym and

doing the same thing I did the last time I did the same exercises. What would

be the point? I can usually almost always do 5 or 10 pounds more than the last

time for squats and deadlifts, usually 5 for squats and 10 for deadlifts.

Bench press is harder progress for me. I do a wave cycle, where I do three days

a week, go up 5 lbs each day and drop 5 lbs each week, for a net gain of 5

lbs/week. Then when progress gets really hard and I can't complete the reps, I

take a week off, test my max, doing something else for a few weeks, and

restart the cycle dropping the weight 10 or twenty pounds.

It's important to DROP your weight periodically. Always start a new cycle

30-40 lbs less than what you were doing at the end of the last one (or if you

are using smaller weight, drop, say, 20% of the weight). This will allow you to

plow right through your goals. You'll be able to get your body accustomed to

increasing the weight 10 lbs every week, and you will spend the first month

playing catch-up and the second month increasing the weight you can lift by 40

lbs.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/04 5:20:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> when i was working out my MAIN workout time was liek 15-20 mins

Huh. Mine is like an hour. Especially when I get to the end of my cycles,

the weight is harder, and I have more resting time between sets.

Chris

[Guest guest]

yah i was doing 2 sets per exercise and only 6 exercises.

i honestly beelive ( and i was told i was my best looking/heaviest aswell )

when i was doing that

that is all you need to make progress

_____

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 1:29 PM

Subject: Re: workout details for Elaine - painfully long and detailed

In a message dated 3/4/04 5:20:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> when i was working out my MAIN workout time was liek 15-20 mins

Huh. Mine is like an hour. Especially when I get to the end of my cycles,

the weight is harder, and I have more resting time between sets.

Chris

[Guest guest]

*****

Some gyms have assisted dip machines, where you can change the angle or

somethign or other (we don't have one at mine) to reduce the effective

weight. But

I'd just do what you're doing. I always do my dips weighted. I tried them

non-weighted after testing my bench press max and did 22, so I could

probably

do more if I was fresh. I always go down ALL THE WAY. I see a lot of

people

just go down to perpendicular or some people don't even go that far. I

highly

recommend going all the way down, or as much as your shoulders can take, and

doing fewer reps, once you have that capability.

*****

Cybex makes a " dip machine " , but it's really just two parallel bars you

push down. It's good for beginners, and is not so bad for experienced

individuals either, as weight goes a nice range up to 210 lbs or something

like that. They make that gravitron pull up machine too, btw, that allows

for less than one's weight to be lifted, but not more. You'd have to chain

a plate to you to go more, as I'm sure you know.

Why would you go all the way down in dips and risk shoulder injury? Full

range of motion (ROM) for triceps is a zero degree elbow joint, as the

action of the triceps is arm extension. In this particular exercise, both

elbow and shoulder joints are moving, thus delts are involved. So it's next

to impossible to go down far enough to get the elbow/arm totally flexed to a

no angle situation/lower & upper arms in contact. In fact, much beyond a

horizontal humerus, the shoulder is the joint that starts moving more, the

elbow less, thus the frontal delts are required increasingly. Check it out

sometime watching someone do dips. Pushdowns with the rope are a better

choice to go really heavy weight on and you can't exceed rom.

Another example with bench press and flyes: it is to the frontal plane for

the pectorals group full ROM. Many people want to touch the bar to the

chest, thus bringing the elbows closer to the floor. This is okay for

light-moderate weights in flexible people, but the pecs aren't getting

anything more out of it. The frontal deltoids start to become more and more

engaged as you exceed the ROM for pecs in both of these exercises. Since

the pecs are bigger and stronger, the poor delts can get really taxed

depending on the weight used.

The shoulder is the most dislocated joint in the body, and is host to a

number of other injuries. You may not know how much your shoulders can take

until it's too late. The thought of tendons snapping . . . I can almost

hear it!

Deanna