Re:RDI - teaching theory of mind

[Guest guest]

Hi

I dont think theory of mind can be taught through specific

activities - it's an end result of a cumulative process - sorry,

there's really no easy answer to this. It will happen (in the later

stages) if the family does an RDI programme because that is what

RDI is all about really - coordinating emotions and understanding

someone elses perspective.

But a family would have to do the whole programme in order to get to

that point - families cant just jump in at a later stage without

doing all the other groundwork first.

Joint attention is a known precursor to ToM (there's loads of

research on this). Philip has already got intermittent joint

attention (depending on what we're doing - definitely if we're doing

a structured RDI activity), so its possible to develop JA quite

early on in the RDI programme.

But to get to JA parents would have to have mastered up to at least

stage 5 (out of 6 stages) of the parent objectives.

To be honest, I dont think I could have done RDI without a

Consultant and the RDI Operating System (internet resource with

Forums, e-learing, webinars etc)........it's just too complex and

hard to grasp.

There are others on this list who do RDI - would love to hear their

thoughts on this - please chip in??

It might be useful for you to ask questions on the RDI-UK list: are

you a member there? There are a few RDI Consultants who post on

there who would be much better placed than me to answer your

questions.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RDI-UK/

Zoe

>

> Zoe

> I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your programme?

Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme, but

do lots of RDI activities.

> Thank you

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Zoe

> > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your programme?

> Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme, but

> do lots of RDI activities.

> > Thank you

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Zoe

> > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your programme?

> Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme, but

> do lots of RDI activities.

> > Thank you

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Zoe

> > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your programme?

> Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme, but

> do lots of RDI activities.

> > Thank you

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Totally agree with Zoe on this, which also reminds me that I need to

look at the OS and forums.

Elaine

> Hi

>

> I dont think theory of mind can be taught through specific

> activities - it's an end result of a cumulative process - sorry,

> there's really no easy answer to this. It will happen (in the later

> stages) if the family does an RDI programme because that is what

> RDI is all about really - coordinating emotions and understanding

> someone elses perspective.

>

> But a family would have to do the whole programme in order to get to

> that point - families cant just jump in at a later stage without

> doing all the other groundwork first.

>

> Joint attention is a known precursor to ToM (there's loads of

> research on this). Philip has already got intermittent joint

> attention (depending on what we're doing - definitely if we're doing

> a structured RDI activity), so its possible to develop JA quite

> early on in the RDI programme.

>

> But to get to JA parents would have to have mastered up to at least

> stage 5 (out of 6 stages) of the parent objectives.

>

> To be honest, I dont think I could have done RDI without a

> Consultant and the RDI Operating System (internet resource with

> Forums, e-learing, webinars etc)........it's just too complex and

> hard to grasp.

>

> There are others on this list who do RDI - would love to hear their

> thoughts on this - please chip in??

>

> It might be useful for you to ask questions on the RDI-UK list: are

> you a member there? There are a few RDI Consultants who post on

> there who would be much better placed than me to answer your

> questions.

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RDI-UK/

>

> Zoe

>

>

>

>>

>> Zoe

>> I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your programme?

> Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme, but

> do lots of RDI activities.

>> Thank you

>>

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical

> advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably

> qualified practitioner.

>

[Guest guest]

Totally agree with Zoe on this, which also reminds me that I need to

look at the OS and forums.

Elaine

> Hi

>

> I dont think theory of mind can be taught through specific

> activities - it's an end result of a cumulative process - sorry,

> there's really no easy answer to this. It will happen (in the later

> stages) if the family does an RDI programme because that is what

> RDI is all about really - coordinating emotions and understanding

> someone elses perspective.

>

> But a family would have to do the whole programme in order to get to

> that point - families cant just jump in at a later stage without

> doing all the other groundwork first.

>

> Joint attention is a known precursor to ToM (there's loads of

> research on this). Philip has already got intermittent joint

> attention (depending on what we're doing - definitely if we're doing

> a structured RDI activity), so its possible to develop JA quite

> early on in the RDI programme.

>

> But to get to JA parents would have to have mastered up to at least

> stage 5 (out of 6 stages) of the parent objectives.

>

> To be honest, I dont think I could have done RDI without a

> Consultant and the RDI Operating System (internet resource with

> Forums, e-learing, webinars etc)........it's just too complex and

> hard to grasp.

>

> There are others on this list who do RDI - would love to hear their

> thoughts on this - please chip in??

>

> It might be useful for you to ask questions on the RDI-UK list: are

> you a member there? There are a few RDI Consultants who post on

> there who would be much better placed than me to answer your

> questions.

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RDI-UK/

>

> Zoe

>

>

>

>>

>> Zoe

>> I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your programme?

> Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme, but

> do lots of RDI activities.

>> Thank you

>>

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical

> advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably

> qualified practitioner.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rhona

Wow - am impressed with the progress in recognising emotions that

you got from working with the SBC book.

I would love to know whether that approach has been through any kind

of evaluation - I havent read the book so dont know whether they

field tested the approach - do you know?

Didnt know you were doing RDI - how's it going? We are still

finding it a hard slog but definitely worth it (I think all

interventions are hard work but RDI perhaps more so than others) -

no pain, no gain........perhaps that should be the motto for all us

autism families??!

Zoe

> > >

> > > Zoe

> > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

programme?

> > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme,

but

> > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > Thank you

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rhona

Wow - am impressed with the progress in recognising emotions that

you got from working with the SBC book.

I would love to know whether that approach has been through any kind

of evaluation - I havent read the book so dont know whether they

field tested the approach - do you know?

Didnt know you were doing RDI - how's it going? We are still

finding it a hard slog but definitely worth it (I think all

interventions are hard work but RDI perhaps more so than others) -

no pain, no gain........perhaps that should be the motto for all us

autism families??!

Zoe

> > >

> > > Zoe

> > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

programme?

> > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme,

but

> > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > Thank you

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

could someone please post just one post about an example of how RdI

looks, say for example, how to work on teaching a child to understand

a " tap on the shoulder " , etc. Or even list some of the things that

RDI teaches in terms of social referencing.

It seems very closed, very few people actually talk about how

it " looks " .

> > > >

> > > > Zoe

> > > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

> programme?

> > > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme,

> but

> > > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > > Thank you

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

could someone please post just one post about an example of how RdI

looks, say for example, how to work on teaching a child to understand

a " tap on the shoulder " , etc. Or even list some of the things that

RDI teaches in terms of social referencing.

It seems very closed, very few people actually talk about how

it " looks " .

> > > >

> > > > Zoe

> > > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

> programme?

> > > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme,

> but

> > > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > > Thank you

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There is footage of me and Philip doing RDI on YouTube - lots of

referencing and joint attention from him. I havent 'taught' him

this - he has developed it as a result of my ability to enable him

to participate in the guided participation relationship.

I agree with Sara - RDI does not 'teach' things - rather, it enables

the child to learn things. Thats the difference between behavioural

(teaching, scripting) and developmental (enabling) interventions.

Can someone post the link to the YouTube footage - I cant find the

bugger anywhere

If you want to know what an RDI parent objective looks like, an

objective on parental competence (a precursor to starting any child

objectives) would go something like this:

Parents need to recognize that RDI is not another therapy or

treatment. Rather, parents undertaking RDI are making a serious

commitment to fundamentally changing the way they manage their

relationships with all of their children. To master this objective

parents must have a clear understanding of both the roles of

the " guide " and the " apprentice " in the guided participation

relationship (GPR).

Parents should recognize that the guide has to set firm limits and

provide clear structure. The guide has to set up the

activity " framework " and designate roles. The guide is not a

playmate and the primary goal is not to entertain or to ensure that

the child is having fun. On the other hand the guide is not

primarily concerned with completing tasks and " getting " the child to

do things.

The GPR also requires a similar change from any other persons who

are primarily involved with the child. Parents realize that the GPR

involves setting the stage for new cognitive and emotional

challenges; enabling the child to make discoveries that will

increase their competence in the real world.

Mastery criteria for this objective would go something like this:

Parents language reflects the movement from " getting " (behavioral

changes) to " giving " (providing opportunities for learning). ... ie

from imperative language to declarative language and 'broadband'

(gesture, intonation, prosody)

Parents attach video footage that demonstrates their understanding

of, and growing competence in, their role in the GPR.

If you want to know any more detail please go on to the RDI-UK list

and ask a Consultant - they are far better placed to respond.

Zoe

> > > > >

> > > > > Zoe

> > > > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

> > programme?

> > > > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI

programme,

> > but

> > > > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > > > Thank you

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---we haven't started rdi yet, and i only have aba/vb training ,but all these

years of

having ds at home,from a sheer survival point of view i have had to pace myself

and slow

down(apart from learning certain skills/concepts at the table where he

preferred the vb

fast pace ),at his level backing off more and more as he got more able.Over the

last few

years we have emerging joint attention ,verified by amazed slts, and then at

moments like

that its like seeing a different child.

He was in a grumpy mood this morning and after a while came up to me and said

" sorry,

screaming " . i looked sad cos i was and he said " be happy " . None of this was

taught and he

is coming from a very severe place. Nina

n Autism-Biomedical-Europe , Sara Moroza- <Moroza-

@...> wrote:

>

> just reread your question as to how it looks - well I think it varies

> from family to family but in our case I just bear in mind that I need to

> show Tom that being with me is more fun than solitary play. I make sure

> he doesn't have demands placed on him, that he's relaxed, that we go

> slowly and at his pace and that we have a nice or fun time. It is slow

> and painstaking but it works.

> Sara

>

> bbrowne123 wrote:

> >

> > could someone please post just one post about an example of how RdI

> > looks, say for example, how to work on teaching a child to understand

> > a " tap on the shoulder " , etc. Or even list some of the things that

> > RDI teaches in terms of social referencing.

> >

> > It seems very closed, very few people actually talk about how

> > it " looks " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Zoe

> > > > > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

> > > programme?

> > > > > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme,

> > > but

> > > > > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > > > > Thank you

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > > Zoe

> > > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

> programme?

> > > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI programme,

> but

> > > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > > Thank you

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Zoe

Thanks for explaining, I think we have joint attention, but am not sure I understand the term the same way as you use it. eg he's using computer and to reward correct answer there's a cartoon. He thinks it's very funny and when he's laughing he turns round to catch sister's face and laugh together. Is that joint attention or is that just referencing?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Zoe

Thanks for explaining, I think we have joint attention, but am not sure I understand the term the same way as you use it. eg he's using computer and to reward correct answer there's a cartoon. He thinks it's very funny and when he's laughing he turns round to catch sister's face and laugh together. Is that joint attention or is that just referencing?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Zoe

Thanks for explaining, I think we have joint attention, but am not sure I understand the term the same way as you use it. eg he's using computer and to reward correct answer there's a cartoon. He thinks it's very funny and when he's laughing he turns round to catch sister's face and laugh together. Is that joint attention or is that just referencing?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

zoe, thanks for that, illuminated somewhat now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Zoe

> > > > > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

> > > programme?

> > > > > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI

> programme,

> > > but

> > > > > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > > > > Thank you

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Found link to YouTube footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVRbgraHiOc

Zoe

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Zoe

> > > > > > > I think you mentioned teaching theory of mind in your

> > > > programme?

> > > > > > Can you share any ideas? We don't have full time RDI

> > programme,

> > > > but

> > > > > > do lots of RDI activities.

> > > > > > > Thank you

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>