POLITICS: OT - RELIGION: C.S. on the reason for the husband's headship...

[Guest guest]

> Re: OT - RELIGION: C.S. on the reason for the

>husband's " headship " ...

>

>

>Suze,

>

>I'm in a rush now and will try to reply more fully later, but my immediate

>comment would be that is using an entirely

>pragmatic/political perspective

>rather than a spiritual perspective.

OK. I'm not sure what you mean by " political " but I can understand what you

mean by " pragmatic. " And I'm very much interested in the pragmatic aspect as

that would affect how I'd live my life if I were married to a Christian man

who interpreted 's words in the way that did.

>If the command were isolated in a vaccum, there would certainly be

>an obvious

>power differential. When it is followed with the other commands,

>the power

>differential disappears when the husband and wife submit their

>will to God's,

>and properly " allign " their own selves in the way they allign

>their family, so

>that their flesh is subject to, but not inferior to, their soul, and their

>soul likewise subject to their spirit, which is the Spirit of God.

Am I wrong in assuming that it would also depend largely on HOW 's words

were interpreted? And what exactly he meant by " headship " and " submit " ? See

my other email for further reference.

>

>I don't see a point in analyzing the pragmatic/political

>implications of the

>command apart from this, because it is the wife who is commanded

>to submit,

>not the husband who is commanded to demand submission; thus there is no

>enforcement mechanism, but the submission is left to the free will

>of the wife, just

>like God has made an explicit point to allow free will to humanity

>to submit to

>God.

That may be so, but IF the wife doesn't follow God's command, then it's not

really a Christian marriage, is it? And I don't mean to imply that Christian

wives who don't allow their husbands to " lead " the marriage are

un-Christian, as again it seems there are a number of folks who don't

subscribe to the translation of " headship " to mean " leadership " as in a

ruler. But whatever it is that they perceive God's command to be for wives,

if they don't follow it, what is the point of being in a Christian marriage?

So I don't see Christian wives as having free will per se, and the same for

Christian husbands, as God has given them specific commands. Sure they can

reject his commands, but again they wouldn't have the type of marriage that

he has commanded them to have. Might as well marry an unbeliever in that

case.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>OK. I'm not sure what you mean by " political " but I can understand what you

>mean by " pragmatic. " And I'm very much interested in the pragmatic aspect as

>that would affect how I'd live my life if I were married to a Christian man

>who interpreted 's words in the way that did.

You might want to go to his church and talk to the women there ...

my experience is that it varies from church to church a LOT. If you

hear women (in private conversation) say things like " Oh, I can't

do that, my husband is against it " you can figure it is a patriarchal

system. Usually the women IN that system accept it, because they

share the same values ... even in situations where they should NOT

accept it (such as when the husband is going outside the bounds

of decent human behavior ... I've heard women say things like " well,

the Lord will bring him around " or " I deserved though, the Lord is

testing me " ). But some churches are far less patriarchal/obedience

oriented.

> That may be so, but IF the wife doesn't follow God's command, then it's not

>really a Christian marriage, is it?

When two people truly share the same value system, the chances are

they will have the best marriage -- and it won't be really stressful

because the value system will " make " most of the decisions (i.e. if

you both share the value system that money should be saved and

the household should be frugal, then neither of you will go out

and buy a new car). Then the whole issue of " submission " becomes

less of an issue.

When I was looking for a husband, someone told me that the

best way to have success in a marriage was to find someone

who shares your values (whatever those are). I've found that

to be true. In our marriage our values have changed over the

years, but fortunately we've both changed at about the

same rate!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Re: POLITICS: OT - RELIGION: C.S. on the reason for

>the husband's " headship " ...

>

>

>> That may be so, but IF the wife doesn't follow God's command,

>then it's not

>>really a Christian marriage, is it?

>

>When two people truly share the same value system, the chances are

>they will have the best marriage -- and it won't be really stressful

>because the value system will " make " most of the decisions (i.e. if

>you both share the value system that money should be saved and

>the household should be frugal, then neither of you will go out

>and buy a new car). Then the whole issue of " submission " becomes

>less of an issue.

very sage advice heidi, thank you :-)

>

>When I was looking for a husband, someone told me that the

>best way to have success in a marriage was to find someone

>who shares your values (whatever those are). I've found that

>to be true. In our marriage our values have changed over the

>years, but fortunately we've both changed at about the

>same rate!

that is truly a wonderful thing - i hope i will have a marriage like that!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------